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2 questions about M8 preview

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l.x.

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Phil:

1 - Could you please include a spec comparison with the Epson?

2 - I know the whole point of an M-camera is the optical viewfinder, and no serious Leica photographer would be caught dead using an electronic tool instead, but all the same: is there any way to open the shutter permanently and use the TFT monitor to frame a shot?

Thanks!

--
LX+R
 
l.x. said:
Phil:
Click to expand...
l.x. said:
2 - I know the whole point of an M-camera is the optical
viewfinder, and no serious Leica photographer would be caught
dead using an electronic tool instead, but all the same: is there
any way to open the shutter permanently and use the TFT monitor to
frame a shot?
Click to expand...
I'm not Phil, but no, you can't. As with most other cameras using large sensors, there are limitations on their active use.

As it is, the camera works very much like a film M. If you like those, you'll like this one.

I had one to try out and play with for about 10 days end of last month, and I believe it will satisfy most photographers who like Leica M's. It's fast, direct, and it works well with all lenses even without the coding dots.

Henning
 
Christian Wagner said:
People always ask this but I'm curious why you would want it. I'm
not saying it's not a good idea, but I just never understood the
benefits of it. What would you use this for?
--
Christian Wagner
http://www.lifevicarious.com
448 Days Around the World
Click to expand...
I guess it allows you to use the LCD to focus? Same as a point and shoot?
 
I too am curious about why you cannot get "live view" on the LCD. The viewfinder is not WYSIWYG so it would seem very useful to enable live view on the LCD. I know the purists would not like it or use it, but for many of us with bad eyesight and limited rangefinder experience, the option of framing and focusing our shots on the LCD would be very helpful and popular. Anyway, for $4,000 or more (US) it should at least be an option.
 
1. No.

2. No.
l.x. said:
Phil:

1 - Could you please include a spec comparison with the Epson?

2 - I know the whole point of an M-camera is the optical
viewfinder, and no serious Leica photographer would be caught
dead using an electronic tool instead, but all the same: is there
any way to open the shutter permanently and use the TFT monitor to
frame a shot?

Thanks!

--
LX+R
Click to expand...
--
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com
 
People always ask why one would want to frame a shot using the monitor. There are actually a whole number of reasons (some of which don't apply to the M8 because of Leica's choice to use a fixed vs. a tilt and swivel screen):
  • no smearing of my glasses
  • no pressing of a black box against my head
  • not having to limit my stereoscopic eyesight to using just one eye and having to close the other (this is actually the biggest issue for me - it takes me a while to get my left eye operational again after squinting through a camera's viewfinder with only my right eye for an extended amount of time)
  • control over exposure + white balance before taking the shot
  • easier composition because one can overlook the whole picture (just like taking a step back in front of a picture in a museum)
  • more flexible shooting with T+S screen (overhead, close to the ground)
  • very unobtrusive shooting from one's hip with T+S screen (reminds me of the old days of DLR = Double Lens Reflex; I find this very enjoyable with my Sony R1)
--
LX+R
 
"The viewfinder is not WYSIWYG"

This is not my experience using older Leicas (M3, M6, MP). On the contrary, the viewfinder on these cameras are really wonderful. The ability to actually see outside the actual picture area (unless you are using a wide-angle whose focal length is wider than that allowed by the viewfinder) can be helpful at times.

I have not seen the M8, so I cannot attest to its viewfinder, but if you are used to the pretty crummy viewfinders on the vast majority of DSLRs, you will be pretty amazed at what you can see when you look through a typical M-series Leica.

--
'It's better than movies, it's better than tele, it's fantastic.'

Spig, from Shooting the Past.
 
I was afraid so, although technologically there are ways and means to incorporate this feature even with large size sensors (just think Pana L1, Leica DL3, Oly E-330, Sony R1). And it wouldn't reduce the camera's usefulness or responsiveness for a more traditional approach to image capturing...

--
LX+R
 
BrianK said:
I have not seen the M8, so I cannot attest to its viewfinder, but
if you are used to the pretty crummy viewfinders on the vast
majority of DSLRs, you will be pretty amazed at what you can see
when you look through a typical M-series Leica.
Click to expand...
I can vouch that shooting with a Leica RF is an astonishingly different and satisfying experience, especially when you're used to shooting for work with Nikon D2h and a LowePro full of kit, like me.

But I had to wait until an M4-2 (circa 1977) could be picked up for £500 before I could enjoy using a Leica so I guess I'll become an M8 owner in 2036 . . .
The M8 looks to be quite superb.

Andrew
 
I'm going to guess the power consumption on a live preview for a 1.33 sensor is very big. I htink most people who would use this camera would much rather have the extended battery life then a live preview.

The vast majority of people who would buy this camera have used Leicas or RF's before and are already used to shooting from the hip. And unless it is TS which I can all but guarantee you will never see on a M, I don't see how it helps.

As far as focusing, most people who use RF prefocus anyway based on distance and slightly fine tune. That's what can make it quicker then auto focus.

This really is meant to be a digital version of a true classic. There is no automatic mode either by the way. It's Aperture priority or manual. And as far as white balance, most people who use this will also shoot RAW so WB is moot.

It's definitely for a certain type of shooter. Leica knows this will never be mainstream form a feature perspective, let alone a price perspective.

But this is exactly what I have been looking for.
--
Christian Wagner
http://www.lifevicarious.com
448 Days Around the World
 
It means dual focusing systems:

1. RF

2. Live-view - which extends the ability to close-focus past the limitations of parallax limitations at about 24 inches (60 cm).

Theoretically suppose it would aso mean you could fit and manually focus lenses beyond the current 135mm RF limit.

But I think the ability to close focus would be of far greater value - but Leica would have to design some new close-focusing M-series lenses to take advantage of the live-view if it is ever used in an M- body.

--
Shoot the Light fantastic
 
Christian Wagner said:
People always ask this but I'm curious why you would want it. I'm
not saying it's not a good idea, but I just never understood the
benefits of it. What would you use this for?
--
Christian Wagner
http://www.lifevicarious.com
448 Days Around the World
Click to expand...
maybe leica will make a macro lens and then using the lcd would be much more accurate for framing and if you could magnify the image live you could focus for the macro as well-
bosjohn aka John Shick [email protected]
 
Live Preview isn't done in SLRs because the mirror is in the way, it has to do with the sensor. But the mirror just happens to be the first obstacle, but even once you get to the sensor, you still have to deal with what it can do.

SLR sensors aren't live feed sensors, that takes a lot more electronics and processing to do, and such batteries bad. You also have delays waiting for the sensor to discharge before firing for the shot.

The limitations of EVF being implemented have to do with EVF, not the bodies it's put in. It works in P&S because they are very different little beast.
l.x. said:
Phil:

1 - Could you please include a spec comparison with the Epson?

2 - I know the whole point of an M-camera is the optical
viewfinder, and no serious Leica photographer would be caught
dead using an electronic tool instead, but all the same: is there
any way to open the shutter permanently and use the TFT monitor to
frame a shot?

Thanks!

--
LX+R
Click to expand...
 
I am well aware of the alternatives, but unless you can show me a way how to attach my M-lenses, which I'd love to re-use, I'm afraid this is just not the same...

--
LX+R
 
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