WRC official photographers

[YanniG]

Recently I spectated the 51st Rally Acropolis of the WRC, here in Greece.

I have to admit that some of the official rally photographers were rude enough to stand wherever they wanted in order to have some nice captures.Althought there were SPECIFIC places only for them - at the best spots of the stages - some of them were hungry enough to go and stand even in front of spectators.Even some fanatic spectators like me were in better places some four hours earlier and with big enough lenses (70-200 F4 USM Canon), but the "smart" professionals just five minutes before the first car stood there "to earn their bread"...
I can only characterise them as rude . . .

What are your opinions about this manner?Are these the professionals?

Kind regards,
YanniG

 

[Scott G Spellman]

Yanni-

As a professional, you have a responsibility to the client to deliver your best work. Unless you are specifically restricted to the designated spots, I do not think it is unproffesional to shoot from other areas. Is it rude to spectators? Perhaps, but your priority is to your client.

As a spectator to any sporting or concert event, there is no guarantee of visability or right to take pictures. As an official concert photographer, I know that sometime I may block a spectators view to get the best shot.

In both cases-the venue management, event producers, and event participants have concluded that photos of the event are an important part of the success of an event, even if it might incovenience the spectators.

-Scott

Recently I spectated the 51st Rally Acropolis of the WRC, here in
Greece.
I have to admit that some of the official rally photographers were
rude enough to stand wherever they wanted in order to have some
nice captures.Althought there were SPECIFIC places only for them -
at the best spots of the stages - some of them were hungry enough
to go and stand even in front of spectators.Even some fanatic
spectators like me were in better places some four hours earlier
and with big enough lenses (70-200 F4 USM Canon), but the "smart"
professionals just five minutes before the first car stood there
"to earn their bread"...
I can only characterise them as rude . . .

What are your opinions about this manner?Are these the professionals?

Kind regards,
YanniG

 

[nicr0s214498]

It's the same for almost every event. Being the "Pro" means that you are granted access that the general public may not get.

Those corded off areas are for media only - but it does not mean that they cant shoot from other areas of the course (we usually have a rainbow pass or media creds that allow course access). The corded off areas around bends are also to keep spectators out of the 'line of fire' of the big TV crews that shoot from the ends of the corners since they usually cover entire sections of the course.

When I was shooting the UCI World Cup (mountain biking) I was given course access. Did I stand in front of spectators? you bet. Why? Because I need to pay bills and get a job done and simply cant wait around for people to move out of my way.. im there to work.. they are spectators. I shoot around 1000 shots at a typical world cup race and thats a little on the low side. If I had to wait for people to move... it would be half that So if you want to get the access and the best shots, then you need to apply and get media cred's. Dont get upset at a guy who is there to work and 'get the shot'.. they are not trying to be rude, and many are quite friendly if you catch them at a slow moment or between heats.

 

[PatMunits]

I almost agree with you. A pro has to get their shots, however that does not mean they can be just plain rude.

Imagine a situation where you couldn't get a press pass because of some issue, such as arriving at the very last moment to spectate your favourite action sport. You arrive there and find that a great spot (based on your experience) has not been taken yet by anyone. You set up there with your big $$$ glass (other pros should get an idea that you mean business) and wait for action. Meanwhile so-called pros from local medias occupy other places. Each of them with at least a couple of camera bodies to show their significance to regular spectators.

Then the action begins and those pros after a few missed frames realize that YOU actually have the best spot on the course. You see them rushing to be in front of your position to get the shot.

Is this professionalism? I think not.

It's the same for almost every event. Being the "Pro" means that
you are granted access that the general public may not get.
Those corded off areas are for media only - but it does not mean
that they cant shoot from other areas of the course (we usually
have a rainbow pass or media creds that allow course access). The
corded off areas around bends are also to keep spectators out of
the 'line of fire' of the big TV crews that shoot from the ends of
the corners since they usually cover entire sections of the course.

When I was shooting the UCI World Cup (mountain biking) I was given
course access. Did I stand in front of spectators? you bet. Why?
Because I need to pay bills and get a job done and simply cant wait
around for people to move out of my way.. im there to work.. they
are spectators. I shoot around 1000 shots at a typical world cup
race and thats a little on the low side. If I had to wait for
people to move... it would be half that So if you want to get the
access and the best shots, then you need to apply and get media
cred's. Dont get upset at a guy who is there to work and 'get the
shot'.. they are not trying to be rude, and many are quite friendly
if you catch them at a slow moment or between heats.

 

[Michael Stevens]

I was waiting for a race to begin in turn 2 where there is a photo hole in the fence for the working media to shoot through. A lady behind the fence that separates the media area from the fans said "Are you guys gonna be here taking up that whole space?" When me and another photog replied we'll be using most of it she gave us a look and a sigh as if to say the same thing you are saying.

We weren't being rude. I even went out of my way to keep the windows open while the riders were on their warmup/parade laps when I saw a spectator behind my window with a camera.

That's one of the benefits of going the extra step and getting the accreditation for an event.

Mike

 

[Michael Stevens]

Imagine a situation where you couldn't get a press pass because of some issue, such as arriving at the very last moment to spectate your favourite action sport.

So, you are there to "spectate" but you think you should be given credentials?

You arrive there and find that a great spot (based on your experience) has not been taken yet by anyone. You set up there with your big $$$ glass (other pros should get an idea that you mean business) and wait for action.

"Mean business?" What exactly does that mean. You think because you own a $4k 300 f/2.8 or a $7k 400 f/2.8 you should be given some special consideration? You get special consideration by taking the time and effort and applying for credentials.

Meanwhile so-called pros from local medias occupy other places. Each of them with at least a couple of camera bodies to show their significance to regular spectators.

What shows their signifigance to regular spectators is that they have free reign of where they may shoot from. You do not. I saw people with media credentials this weekend at the World Superbike Races at Laguna Seca shooting with Canon S500 and other P&S digitals. That's not a very significant camera but they got credentials because of a legitimate need for photos. Without a legitimate need you don't get the access.

Then the action begins and those pros after a few missed frames realize that YOU actually have the best spot on the course. You see them rushing to be in front of your position to get the shot. Is this professionalism? I think not.

Sure, it is. It's professionalism at it's finest. They were professional enough to realize that their first shooting position was not the best and they relocated.

Mike

 

[Kendall Helmstetter Gelner]

Recently I spectated the 51st Rally Acropolis of the WRC, here in
Greece.
I have to admit that some of the official rally photographers were
rude enough to stand wherever they wanted in order to have some
nice captures.

What are your opinions about this manner?Are these the professionals?

Last night I was out at a musical (Teraacotta Warriors), and I was sitting in the back row - a photographer that I think was official (he had a fiarly large tripod and long lens) sat in one of the first empty row of seats in the back, just a few rows in front of me (I was in the very back where it was also empty).

He started taking pictures - that would have been somewhat annoying, given that he left the focus confirmation alert sound on. (Beep! Beep! Beep!). Being a few rows away I could have lived with that. But what I thought was rather rude was that he left the AF assist light on!! Imagine you are in a dark theater, watching a show with moody lighting - then a FLOOD of light comes on behind you! As I was in back it was not so bad, but he was literally lighting up the heads of the people in the row in front of him like a movie screen. At one point you could actually see the light dimly illuminate the entire curtain at the front (it was a really dark show)!

So, pros - if you are going to be shooting something along the lines of a play, please figure out how to turn off antyhing that might distract the audience.

From the looks of things (he was very fond of review which I could see from behind) he got some some nice shots I guess.

--
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Summer Shoot:
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[DaveyP]

I almost agree with you. A pro has to get their shots, however that
does not mean they can be just plain rude.

Imagine a situation where you couldn't get a press pass because of
some issue, such as arriving at the very last moment to spectate
your favourite action sport.

Press passes dont grow on trees - you need a reason to get one, the most common being that you are shooting for an accredited publication, i.e. WORKING

You arrive there and find that a great
spot (based on your experience) has not been taken yet by anyone.
You set up there with your big $$$ glass (other pros should get an
idea that you mean business) and wait for action.

Possessing of a 500mm f4L doth not a pro maketh (©W.Shakespeare)

Meanwhile
so-called pros from local medias occupy other places. Each of them
with at least a couple of camera bodies to show their significance
to regular spectators.

LOL of course I always carry two bodies as a pure status symbol - never occurred to me that one could act as a backup if a body breaks down or perhaps carry a different focal length lens

Then the action begins and those pros after a few missed frames
realize that YOU actually have the best spot on the course. You see
them rushing to be in front of your position to get the shot.

If the position in front of your position is accessible to them legitimately then I´m afraid you (with no more rights than a paying spectator L glass or no glass) have to grin and bear it. A pro will wander about and sometimes steal candy off a kid to get in position for THE shot, especially if getting THE shot means paying the harbour fees for his yacht in Antigua for another week

Is this professionalism? I think not.

Indeed it is professionalism - it is getting the shot come what may and its getting paid to deliver results.

 

[PatMunits]

Imagine a situation where you couldn't get a press pass because of some issue, such as arriving at the very last moment to spectate your favourite action sport.

So, you are there to "spectate" but you think you should be given
credentials?

Yes, and if necessary Yes. I'm there firstly to spectate and enjoy the sport, and secondly to sell photos to the Rally teams. I can qualify as a pro even more than local reporters because:

• I know the safety rules of the sport
• I have the technical knowledge and experience of both the sport and the art of photographing it
• I have the necessary equipment to deliver results
• I earn income from doing it

You arrive there and find that a great spot (based on your experience) has not been taken yet by anyone. You set up there with your big $$$ glass (other pros should get an idea that you mean business) and wait for action.

"Mean business?" What exactly does that mean. You think because you
own a $4k 300 f/2.8 or a $7k 400 f/2.8 you should be given some
special consideration? You get special consideration by taking the
time and effort and applying for credentials.

If you shoot with a 300 f2.8 then you shouldn't have a problem picking a spot which doesn't block another photographer looking for an exact same photo. On the other hand, if you are standing behind the do-no-cross tape just 3 feet away from Rally cars flying (I mean flying through the air and not driving) and shooting with a 15mm then I would consider it to be a professional courtesy: not to block the shot of another photographer, who was there before you.

Sometimes your flight arrives too late for you to get official press pass and all you have on your vest is your media company's photo id.

Meanwhile so-called pros from local medias occupy other places. Each of them with at least a couple of camera bodies to show their significance to regular spectators.

What shows their signifigance to regular spectators is that they
have free reign of where they may shoot from. You do not. I saw
people with media credentials this weekend at the World Superbike
Races at Laguna Seca shooting with Canon S500 and other P&S
digitals. That's not a very significant camera but they got
credentials because of a legitimate need for photos. Without a
legitimate need you don't get the access.

Then the action begins and those pros after a few missed frames realize that YOU actually have the best spot on the course. You see them rushing to be in front of your position to get the shot. Is this professionalism? I think not.

Sure, it is. It's professionalism at it's finest. They were
professional enough to realize that their first shooting position
was not the best and they relocated.

Mike

Unfortunately that can also mean for them getting to a spot where no one must be (due to safety) but the only one available because all the other places are taken. That is not professionalism under any circumstances. That is ignorance.

 

[Todd Corzett]

Same thing here. For the WSBK race #1 and the Superbike race I was shooting on the grid, and then had to run to the outside of turn 3 for the start. As I'm going down the fence I notice all the spectators who I know are trying to get an unimpeded view of the track. When I get to the cutout I saw there was a man (setup in a chair, so had been the for a long time) waiting for the race to start. Yes, I did feel bad about being in his shot... but I needed to get my shot. I stood to the side of the cutout not in the middle, but still... I had a reason to be there and am not just a spectator, I was working.

-Todd...

--
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Unit One Studios
http://www.unitonestudios.com

 

[Todd Corzett]

I'm there firstly to spectate and enjoy the sport

Spectate and work are two different things. If you're there to watch the race, then you don't need credentials... get a ticket.

second to sell photos to the Rally teams.

If this is your goal, apply for credentials. If you have an acceptable reason to need credentials, I'm sure you'd have no problem getting them.

I can qualify as a pro even more than local reporters because:

• I know the safety rules of the sport

This has nothing to do with qualifying for credentials (not knowing them can get you into trouble though)

• I have the technical knowledge and experience of both the sport

and the art of photographing it

Again, this has nothing to do with qualifying for credentials (not knowing this can get you into trouble)

• I have the necessary equipment to deliver results

Yet again, this has nothing to do with qualifying for credentials

• I earn income from doing it

If you're working for an acceptable client (regardless how much money is involved) you shouldn't have a problem getting credentials.

Sometimes your flight arrives too late for you to get official
press pass and all you have on your vest is your media company's
photo id.

When you arrive should have nothing to do with getting credentials. I've never heard of an event that issues credentials on the day of the event. Many require you submit applications weeks or months before the event. If you're approved for credentials they should be sent to you, or be able to be picked up at the event (regardless of when you arrive).

-Todd...

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Unit One Studios
http://www.unitonestudios.com

 

[Todd Corzett]

If the locations they were standing were not approved for them to shoot, I'm quite sure they would have been reprimanded. Just because there are special locations for only credentialed photographers, doesn't mean they can't shoot from other places. I don't find it helpful to be rude to spectators, as all it can do is cause problems, but I do have a job to do... and that comes before a spectator's view as long as I'm in approved areas. If I'm in the spectator areas, I do not push my way past people or jump in front of people's views. But, if I'm shooting from a credentialed area only, I do not hesitate getting in the way of a spectator as I'm there to do a job. If there's something I can do to stay out of their way I will do it (as I know what shooting from a spectator is like), but if I can't... I get my job done and move on.

As for showing up at a location only minutes before an event (after you've been there for hours)... do you know what they were doing before? At many events, I'd be lucky to have 20 minutes to get to a location... often times I have to run from one spot to the next... I'd love hours to setup a shot, but most of the time it doesn't happen.

If you have a legitimate reason to be photographing the event with credentials, apply for credentials. If you don't, it's just something you have to live with when it comes to photographing events that have limited photograph locations.

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Unit One Studios
http://www.unitonestudios.com

 

[Mark Scheuern]

I agree entirely. While I certainly won't deliberately get in the way of spectators, credentialed media have a job to do and we can't make ourselves invisible, either. I only recall having a problem once and that was at Road America a couple of years ago. I was shooting turn 3 and heard someone yelling at me from behind. He was extremely annoyed that I was in his way. Keep in mind I was about 25 feet in front of him and couldn't have been subtending that large a portion of his angle of view and, given that he was in a general access area and not a grandstand (very few grandstands at Road America), all he had to do was move over a couple of feet--something I couldn't do. I didn't spend much time feeling very sorry for him.

I almost always find spectators to be understanding and are often eager to talk about racing, etc. That was an extremely rare exception.

--
Mark
http://www.scheuern.com/photoblog/

 

[apexjapan]

I don't know about the others, but when I'm shooting a race, I'm not spectating at all, I'm simply concentrating on the shooting. It's one of the downsides of the job if you are doing it because you love racing/automobiles - in the end, the spectators that paid get to actually enjoy the race, while I'm simply rushing from location to location, shot to shot.

In my location, at least, getting media passes on the day are not that difficult if you belong to at least one large media organization that is recognizable, or in my case, have been established as a regular.

If you have the luxury of spectating, enjoy it. I don't feel good for getting in front of spectators, I don't enjoy it, but that excuse simply doesn't fly afterwards with editors, and all that would possibly happen to change would be that a new photographer is hired that will get in the positions to get the shots.

Cheers,

Paul

 

[RenéV #241477]

To my opinion, it's totally normal.

Rally photographers are given the right to be wherever they feel like shooting, because THOUSANDS of readers wanna see the pictures.

I don't give a rat's ass about a few spectators when i'm shooting on a special stage. These guys only have a limited period of time to get their shots because unlike most of the spectators, they have to be half an hour later on another stage to get the next set of pictures.

These guys are working and therefore the organizers have given them special rights.

The bigger the event, the more pressure there is to get decent shots.

Sorry about all the spectators, but if they are amateur ticketbuyers then their place is behind the lines and the photographers will always be in front.

Recently I spectated the 51st Rally Acropolis of the WRC, here in
Greece.
I have to admit that some of the official rally photographers were
rude enough to stand wherever they wanted in order to have some
nice captures.Althought there were SPECIFIC places only for them -
at the best spots of the stages - some of them were hungry enough
to go and stand even in front of spectators.Even some fanatic
spectators like me were in better places some four hours earlier
and with big enough lenses (70-200 F4 USM Canon), but the "smart"
professionals just five minutes before the first car stood there
"to earn their bread"...
I can only characterise them as rude . . .

What are your opinions about this manner?Are these the professionals?

Kind regards,
YanniG

 

[Mark Scheuern]

I don't know about the others, but when I'm shooting a race, I'm
not spectating at all, I'm simply concentrating on the shooting.
It's one of the downsides of the job if you are doing it because
you love racing/automobiles - in the end, the spectators that paid
get to actually enjoy the race, while I'm simply rushing from
location to location, shot to shot.

Exactly. While it's certainly work I like doing, it's still most definitely work. I look forward to getting home, finishing up the post-shoot stuff (which is also a lot of work), and watching the race on TiVo so I can see what actually happened and enjoy it. I can't do that when I'm there.

--
Mark
http://www.scheuern.com/photoblog/

 

[bdougr]

I sometimes wish I had credentials for the races. Most times after the race starts I realize the photogs with the 300mm lens at the tire barrier must be getting shots of the drivers helmet since I get shots like the sample below with a 200mm.

Credentials or having a camera do not entitle you to block someones view. At the corkscrew (Laguna Seca) I move to the fence, take a few shots then move back since this is a very popular spot for spectators. When I move back I go to other areas for passing action.



--
http://SportscarImage.com

I am not a web page designer

 

[Peter Dougenik]

As others have stated the guy is just doing his job. If I had to turn around and look to see if I was in a spectators shot every time I shot mountain bike races I'd never come home with anything worthy of publication. Sometimes I'm forced to take it a step further because at some events they give out credentials like free candy, and I'm forced to be in the way of another "credentialed" photographer to get my shot...now when I say this I'm usually talking about a spectator with a P&S that managed to get media access. And before people start yelling about everyone having to start somewhere and such, I shot these same races 4-5yrs ago as a freelance myself, but I had enough sense to stay out of the way of the guys I knew were there on assignment...but I digress...

I have shot some competitions where spectators have actually yelled at me and called me all sort of bad names becuase I stood in front of them to get a few shots. I often wondered if they do the same to news photogs at NHL games?

One thing that I did see a "pro" photog do a few years at a DH mountain bike race was simply out of line IMO. He was setup to shoot long lens up the course and get the rider coming over a crest that was an off camber corner. Naturally spectators walking down the outside of the course would stop here to watch the pros go by and everytime someone did this guy would start yelling at them! "Hey! ARE YOU REALLY PLANNING ON STANDING THERE??!?!" "HEY, GET OUT OF MY SHOT!!". getting mad at spectators for being in the spectator area? seriously?

Anyway, I'm rambling. The bottom line is if someone is credentialed he is usually there to make his living, and if you're there to watch the race...even if you're a great photog, then you have no right to get upset if he gets in your way. If you really have a serious interest in shooting then get your own credentials, and then you can see how long it is before YOU find yourself standing in front of a spectator with a nice camera who setup 5hrs before to get a shot in that corner

Peter D.
http://www.dougenikphoto.com

 

[Todd Corzett]

I would have to say that Laguna Seca is the most spectator photography accessible track I've ever been to. Actually... it's where I got my start, and where I built my portfolio to start getting credentials. Every area where the spectators stand (other than outside turn 2 and 3) the credential only areas have an elevation change, keeping the photographers out of all but the widest shots. Most places also have very short fences, which with a small step ladder aren't problems to shoot over.

As for shooting from the barrier with a 300mm, it's great for getting head-on shots as the cars come down the corkscrew.



-Todd...

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Unit One Studios
http://www.unitonestudios.com

 

[Robert Freiberger]

Awesome photo!

I was just at Laguna Seca and it's by far my favorite track for photography. Is your image cropped much, I was shooting a 300mm on a 35mm and didn't have that much reach.

Following images scanned at 300dpi.





Rob

I would have to say that Laguna Seca is the most spectator
photography accessible track I've ever been to. Actually... it's
where I got my start, and where I built my portfolio to start
getting credentials. Every area where the spectators stand (other
than outside turn 2 and 3) the credential only areas have an
elevation change, keeping the photographers out of all but the
widest shots. Most places also have very short fences, which with
a small step ladder aren't problems to shoot over.

As for shooting from the barrier with a 300mm, it's great for
getting head-on shots as the cars come down the corkscrew.



-Todd...

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