Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 VR plus Nikon 2x TC

[K.C.Chan]

First, thank you for all who helped me and eventually I took the advice and bought a macro filter and enjoying good close up without spending a lot of money.

Now, is my tele problem.

I like shooting birds. only has 70-300 D. Bought a 2x TC. They only worked well on very bright day . 70-300 D is not a fast lens, the 2XTC worsen it. We do not have many bright sunny days in a year in UK.

On a cloudy day, even with 1600 iso. using focal length 300mm (ie eq. 900 mm), I am force to shoot at shutter speed 60 !!! Tripod is not always the answer as some very shy bird only appear for 1 to 3 seconds. Can not set up tripod quickly enough unless I know where the shy bird will come out in advance.

Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 is a much faster lens. I may loose from 900mm to 600mm tele power, but still close enough.

Before I pay a lot of money, would like to ask:

1, Will the Nikon TC slow down the focusing time too bad?

2, Does the combo has any softness or focusing problem ?

3, Does the VR work well with the Nikon 2X TC together ?

BTW, I use D70 camera.

The reason I do not choose 300mm f2.8 or Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 because they are big and I will only use them in my bird chasing trip. (I mean birds with wing . If I buy the 70-200mm VR, I can remove the TC and use it for general use such as portrait etc when I am not in a bird trip. Aren't I greedy ?

Also, the VR seem attractive, it may help when I am free holding shooting with maxium focal length at a far target.

I am not very rich. Can not afford to make a mistake if the combo does not perfom much better than my existing saystem 70-300 D + Jessop cheap 2x TC.

Attached a photo, U can see the bird is too small and can not fill the whole photo. Using software to crop will lose pixels. IE need 2xTC and able to shoot at high shutter speed.

WAKE UP PLEASE, I have already finished my l-o-n-g story.

http://www.pbase.com/image/28497360

KC

http://www.pbase.com/image/28497360

 

[chester bigs]

K.C.

I can only speak to the 70-200vr with the TCIIE. According to George Lepp in the latest Outdoor Photographer you will loose about 10% of image quaility with a 1.4 TC and 20% with a 2 x TC. He says it is most critical to use a very good lens when using the 2x TC. He also says if using a good lens one might get better results than with the 2x and not have a 20% loss. I was in your situation even with the same lens. After much debate I decided on the 70-200 VR with the 2x.

I like to hike and did not want to carry a big lens. Also it simply was not in the budget. Two kids in college!! The 2x will slow the lens down. The 2.8 becomes 5.6. The focus on a D100 will hunt more in low light. Very fast and good in better light. So to answer your question, it depends on how you will shoot. I am attaching two shots with the 70-200vr and 2xTC. These have both been cropped by about 50%. Good luck. (I am happy with the choice I made. I am also getting the 1.4 TC which is much better for most shots when you don't need the extra reach.)

 

[K.C.Chan]

Wow, very good quality picture.I have decided to get a 70-200mm and TC2E. Thank you for showing the pictures and advice.

BTW, does the VR work well together with the TC ?

KC

K.C.

I can only speak to the 70-200vr with the TCIIE. According to
George Lepp in the latest Outdoor Photographer you will loose about
10% of image quaility with a 1.4 TC and 20% with a 2 x TC. He says
it is most critical to use a very good lens when using the 2x TC.
He also says if using a good lens one might get better results than
with the 2x and not have a 20% loss. I was in your situation even
with the same lens. After much debate I decided on the 70-200 VR
with the 2x.

I like to hike and did not want to carry a big lens. Also it simply
was not in the budget. Two kids in college!! The 2x will slow the
lens down. The 2.8 becomes 5.6. The focus on a D100 will hunt more
in low light. Very fast and good in better light. So to answer your
question, it depends on how you will shoot. I am attaching two
shots with the 70-200vr and 2xTC. These have both been cropped by
about 50%. Good luck. (I am happy with the choice I made. I am also
getting the 1.4 TC which is much better for most shots when you
don't need the extra reach.)

 

[Vera]

K.C.

I can only speak to the 70-200vr with the TCIIE. According to
George Lepp in the latest Outdoor Photographer you will loose about
10% of image quaility with a 1.4 TC and 20% with a 2 x TC. He says
it is most critical to use a very good lens when using the 2x TC.
He also says if using a good lens one might get better results than
with the 2x and not have a 20% loss. I was in your situation even
with the same lens. After much debate I decided on the 70-200 VR
with the 2x.

I like to hike and did not want to carry a big lens. Also it simply
was not in the budget. Two kids in college!! The 2x will slow the
lens down. The 2.8 becomes 5.6. The focus on a D100 will hunt more
in low light. Very fast and good in better light. So to answer your
question, it depends on how you will shoot. I am attaching two
shots with the 70-200vr and 2xTC. These have both been cropped by
about 50%. Good luck. (I am happy with the choice I made. I am also
getting the 1.4 TC which is much better for most shots when you
don't need the extra reach.)

http://www.pbase.com/image/28474617

--I do believe a 2X convertor only makes a 300 lens 600 but thats not really what you are asking. I am summing up whether to buy a 2X for my nikon 2.8 that will make it 400mm at 5.6 I live in Brisbane australia and we do get heaps of blue sky and sunshine. I was using a 1.4 tc on a friends 300m F4 yesterday and struggling in shady conditions with bird photos .

I have come to the conclusion that what i really want is at least a 600 mm Prime 2.8 lens BUT IT ISNT GOING TO HAPPEN.
i think i will stick to pelicans, swans and seagulls.
Vera

 

[chester bigs]

Wow, very good quality picture.I have decided to get a 70-200mm and
TC2E. Thank you for showing the pictures and advice.

BTW, does the VR work well together with the TC ?

All functions work just fine with mine.

KC

K.C.

I can only speak to the 70-200vr with the TCIIE. According to
George Lepp in the latest Outdoor Photographer you will loose about
10% of image quaility with a 1.4 TC and 20% with a 2 x TC. He says
it is most critical to use a very good lens when using the 2x TC.
He also says if using a good lens one might get better results than
with the 2x and not have a 20% loss. I was in your situation even
with the same lens. After much debate I decided on the 70-200 VR
with the 2x.

I like to hike and did not want to carry a big lens. Also it simply
was not in the budget. Two kids in college!! The 2x will slow the
lens down. The 2.8 becomes 5.6. The focus on a D100 will hunt more
in low light. Very fast and good in better light. So to answer your
question, it depends on how you will shoot. I am attaching two
shots with the 70-200vr and 2xTC. These have both been cropped by
about 50%. Good luck. (I am happy with the choice I made. I am also
getting the 1.4 TC which is much better for most shots when you
don't need the extra reach.)

 

[muskiemouth]

I have come to the conclusion that what i really want is at least a
600 mm Prime 2.8 lens BUT IT ISNT GOING TO HAPPEN.

You bet it's not going to happen, for one thing it doesn't exist (at least I've never heard of one) and if it did it would weigh 30lbs and cost $50,000 (at least) .

 

[dr. Wu]

Chester:

Great pictures!

However, these pictures were taken in strong light conditions, aren't they? I am concerned for the low light conditions. Does the combination also work fine and do not lose much image quality in low light conditions?

I really appreciate your further demonstrations.

Dr. taiwan

K.C.

I can only speak to the 70-200vr with the TCIIE. According to
George Lepp in the latest Outdoor Photographer you will loose about
10% of image quaility with a 1.4 TC and 20% with a 2 x TC. He says
it is most critical to use a very good lens when using the 2x TC.
He also says if using a good lens one might get better results than
with the 2x and not have a 20% loss. I was in your situation even
with the same lens. After much debate I decided on the 70-200 VR
with the 2x.

I like to hike and did not want to carry a big lens. Also it simply
was not in the budget. Two kids in college!! The 2x will slow the
lens down. The 2.8 becomes 5.6. The focus on a D100 will hunt more
in low light. Very fast and good in better light. So to answer your
question, it depends on how you will shoot. I am attaching two
shots with the 70-200vr and 2xTC. These have both been cropped by
about 50%. Good luck. (I am happy with the choice I made. I am also
getting the 1.4 TC which is much better for most shots when you
don't need the extra reach.)

 

[chester bigs]

Dr. Wu:

I will post a couple shots tonight west coast time that were taken in lower light. If you need either faster speed or shoot a lot in low light I don't think you would be very happy with this combo at least not on a D100. It becomes a 5.6 lens so that alone would cause problems. I noticed that if the light is not too dark it will focus just fine. When it gets too dark out it will hunt and this is true of some other lenses I have, like the 24-85. I think this has more to do with the D100 than just the lens. The pictures I took at the lake in the shade all came out pretty good. I will post those tonight for you. I am just learning this set up as I have not had much time to use it a lot.

Great pictures!

However, these pictures were taken in strong light conditions,
aren't they? I am concerned for the low light conditions. Does the
combination also work fine and do not lose much image quality in
low light conditions?

I really appreciate your further demonstrations.

Dr. taiwan

K.C.

I can only speak to the 70-200vr with the TCIIE. According to
George Lepp in the latest Outdoor Photographer you will loose about
10% of image quaility with a 1.4 TC and 20% with a 2 x TC. He says
it is most critical to use a very good lens when using the 2x TC.
He also says if using a good lens one might get better results than
with the 2x and not have a 20% loss. I was in your situation even
with the same lens. After much debate I decided on the 70-200 VR
with the 2x.

I like to hike and did not want to carry a big lens. Also it simply
was not in the budget. Two kids in college!! The 2x will slow the
lens down. The 2.8 becomes 5.6. The focus on a D100 will hunt more
in low light. Very fast and good in better light. So to answer your
question, it depends on how you will shoot. I am attaching two
shots with the 70-200vr and 2xTC. These have both been cropped by
about 50%. Good luck. (I am happy with the choice I made. I am also
getting the 1.4 TC which is much better for most shots when you
don't need the extra reach.)

 

[Vera]

K.C.

I can only speak to the 70-200vr with the TCIIE. According to
George Lepp in the latest Outdoor Photographer you will loose about
10% of image quaility with a 1.4 TC and 20% with a 2 x TC. He says
it is most critical to use a very good lens when using the 2x TC.
He also says if using a good lens one might get better results than
with the 2x and not have a 20% loss. I was in your situation even
with the same lens. After much debate I decided on the 70-200 VR
with the 2x.

I like to hike and did not want to carry a big lens. Also it simply
was not in the budget. Two kids in college!! The 2x will slow the
lens down. The 2.8 becomes 5.6. The focus on a D100 will hunt more
in low light. Very fast and good in better light. So to answer your
question, it depends on how you will shoot. I am attaching two
shots with the 70-200vr and 2xTC. These have both been cropped by
about 50%. Good luck. (I am happy with the choice I made. I am also
getting the 1.4 TC which is much better for most shots when you
don't need the extra reach.)

http://www.pbase.com/image/28474617

--the photos are great and as you say low light photos are more challenging. It can help if you have a camera which handles high ISO well like the S2 and i imagine the D100 is the same. I am having trouble with low light bird photos but thats all part of the challenge isnt it.
Vera

 

[K.C.Chan]

Vera,

I have taken into account of Focal length multiplier (FLM) when I talk. As the sensor of DSLR is smaller than 35mm film. The diagonal length of 35mm film divided by the diagonal length of a D70 CCD senor is about 1.5.

D70 with a 200mm lens and 2xTC, the focal length equavalent to 35mm
SLR is :

200 x 2 (due the 2xTC effect) x 1.5 (Due to DSLR smaller sensor crop or FLM) = 600mm.

I will follow Chester's opinion, buy a 2xTC with a f/2.8 lens. Although it will become f/5.6, still give me a very good relative improvement when comparing to f/11.

Imagine I am using f5.6 with Jessop 2xTC, it bcecome f/11 ! I still struggled to get a few good shot with low light. I have to abmit that the successful rate is about 10%. The bird must just happened sit quite still, and my hand must be happened just steady enough.

Tha attached photo of black bird was shot in very low light. I do not know why there is a shadow under it. Please look at the full exif. Shutter speed was as low as 30, at about 270mm (equ. to 810mm), no flash, no tripod. F/5.6 (ie become F/11) , iso was 1100. Not a professional standard, but still sharp enough for me.

F/2.8 lens (ie become f/5.6) is much better than my present system. It is still not perfect and may not as good as real f/2.8 . But very sure that will increase my successful rate with out blur from 10% and bit my f/11 system easily.

http://www.pbase.com/image/28498408

********************************************************

K.C.

I can only speak to the 70-200vr with the TCIIE. According to
George Lepp in the latest Outdoor Photographer you will loose about
10% of image quaility with a 1.4 TC and 20% with a 2 x TC. He says
it is most critical to use a very good lens when using the 2x TC.
He also says if using a good lens one might get better results than
with the 2x and not have a 20% loss. I was in your situation even
with the same lens. After much debate I decided on the 70-200 VR
with the 2x.

I like to hike and did not want to carry a big lens. Also it simply
was not in the budget. Two kids in college!! The 2x will slow the
lens down. The 2.8 becomes 5.6. The focus on a D100 will hunt more
in low light. Very fast and good in better light. So to answer your
question, it depends on how you will shoot. I am attaching two
shots with the 70-200vr and 2xTC. These have both been cropped by
about 50%. Good luck. (I am happy with the choice I made. I am also
getting the 1.4 TC which is much better for most shots when you
don't need the extra reach.)

http://www.pbase.com/image/28474617

--I do believe a 2X convertor only makes a 300 lens 600 but thats
not really what you are asking. I am summing up whether to buy a 2X
for my nikon 2.8 that will make it 400mm at 5.6 I live in Brisbane
australia and we do get heaps of blue sky and sunshine. I was using
a 1.4 tc on a friends 300m F4 yesterday and struggling in shady
conditions with bird photos .
I have come to the conclusion that what i really want is at least a
600 mm Prime 2.8 lens BUT IT ISNT GOING TO HAPPEN.
i think i will stick to pelicans, swans and seagulls.
Vera

 

[K.C.Chan]

Muskiemouth Hi

Nikon AF-S 600mm f/4 can be bought in UK.

The price is £7900, about 10270 US dollars. But do not know the weight.

Please see attached photo:
http://www.pbase.com/image/28586849

*****************************************************

I have come to the conclusion that what i really want is at least a
600 mm Prime 2.8 lens BUT IT ISNT GOING TO HAPPEN.

You bet it's not going to happen, for one thing it doesn't exist
(at least I've never heard of one) and if it did it would weigh
30lbs and cost $50,000 (at least) .

 

[chester bigs]

Dr. Wu:

Here are a couple samples late in the day in pretty low light. The lens focused very fast and these two were hand held with VR on. ISO 200 F7.1 and 1/160. Matrix meter. Also note ducks were moving pretty fast. These shots were cropped about 40% from original. Again taken with D100
70-200VR with TCIIE

 

[chester bigs]

--the photos are great and as you say low light photos are more
challenging. It can help if you have a camera which handles high
ISO well like the S2 and i imagine the D100 is the same. I am
having trouble with low light bird photos but thats all part of the
challenge isnt it.
Vera

Vera

Thank you. You are sure correct about the low light. I mostly take landscapes. I wanted a lens I could use for more reach. For my style shooting the 70-200 works great. The TC gives me a little extra if I need it. I can see how addictive it could become to shoot wildllife shots. It can also become very very expensive. Thanks again.

Chester

 

[Paolo Pizzi]

Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 is a much faster lens. I may loose from 900mm
to 600mm tele power, but still close enough.

Before I pay a lot of money, would like to ask:

1, Will the Nikon TC slow down the focusing time too bad?

Not too bad.

2, Does the combo has any softness or focusing problem ?

While the 70-200VR is one of my favorite lenses, it's not a
perfect match for any TC. You must consider that TC's work
at their best with PRIME lenses. 70-200VR + 1.4x produces
acceptable results but will only give you 280mm max. The
same lens + 2x TC does not do justice to the quality of the
lens, not to mention that you will lose two f-stops.

3, Does the VR work well with the Nikon 2X TC together ?

No problem.

The reason I do not choose 300mm f2.8 or Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8
because they are big and I will only use them in my bird chasing
trip. (I mean birds with wing .

Consider the Nikkor 300mm f/4 AF-S, which is about the same
size/weight as the 70-200VR and it's one of Nikon's sharpest
telephoto lenses. Moreover, it's the ideal match for a TC.
Mated to the TC14EII it will give you awesome quality at
420mm and it's still more than acceptable with a 2x TC at
600mm (f/8, of course...)

If I buy the 70-200mm VR, I can remove the TC and use
it for general use such as portrait etc when I am not in a
bird trip. Aren't I greedy ?

That's where the 70-200VR really shines. Like I said, it loses
too much when coupled with a teleconverter, especially
a 2x model.

Also, the VR seem attractive, it may help when I am free
holding shooting with maxium focal length at a far target.

The VR will NOT compensate for the movement of your subject,
and if you shoot birds, that's the real problem with slower shutter
speeds...

I am not very rich.

Then compromise. Get a new Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 HSM and a
used Nikkor 300mm AF-S for about the same price of a new
Nikkor 70-200VR. The Sigma is an excellent lens, I'd say about
90% of the 70-200VR.

Hope it helps.

------------------------------------------------
'Everything should be made as
simple as possible, but no simpler.'

(Albert Einstein)

• Equipment list in profile.

 

[JohnB23144]

• for me, a TC-2eII degraded the 70-200 too much. And it did slow it noticeably, but I don't know how much of a problem that would have been. I exchanged my TC-2eII for a TC-14e, which I find much more acceptable. Could have been my sample.

Without the TC-2e, at 200mm:



With the TC-2e, at 200mm (400mm), at twice the distance:



With the TC-2e, at 100mm (200mm), at the original distance:



JohnB

 

[chester bigs]

• for me, a TC-2eII degraded the 70-200 too much. And it did slow

it noticeably, but I don't know how much of a problem that would
have been. I exchanged my TC-2eII for a TC-14e, which I find much
more acceptable. Could have been my sample.
Without the TC-2e, at 200mm:



With the TC-2e, at 200mm (400mm), at twice the distance:



With the TC-2e, at 100mm (200mm), at the original distance:



JohnB

It was tests like this that had me figuring any pictures taken with the TC20EII would come out horrible. I think my posts above disprove that. You can get some pretty decent shots with it if it is all you have.

I happen to have the eagle shot blown up to 11x15 hanging in my office and it is pretty sharp overall. Look at some of the great shots posted by Regrit and you will see how great some of his bird shots are.

My point is this. The 70-200VR is my lens of choice. I did not have the funds to buy a better/longer lens. I totally agree if that is the kind of shooting you will be doing then you need a longer lens and use the TC 1.4.

I have taken shots with the TC20EII that I would not have been able to get with the TC1.4. It certainly is better than your tests show. If you don't believe it look at Thom Hogans site.

Chester

 

[JohnB23144]

As I wrote, could have been my sample (of the TC-2EII). I only did the test because I didn't like the "real-world" results I was getting, so I wanted to see what the problem was.
JohnB

 

[chester bigs]

As I wrote, could have been my sample (of the TC-2EII). I only did
the test because I didn't like the "real-world" results I was
getting, so I wanted to see what the problem was.
JohnB

John:

Were your real life shots in good light or under low light conditions? I wonder if some TC-20EIIs are better than others? Maybe it is just luck of the draw. Any way I am pretty happy with mine knowing it's limitations. Some day I will go for a bigger gun. Thanks.

Chester

 

[K.C.Chan]

Paolo,

Thak you very much. Your opinions are very helpful. I really have reconsidered the sigma 70-200 f2.8. Finally I will stay will Nikon. As you have stayed that it has no problem with Nikon TC and VR work perfectly which will reduce camera shake.

Then, if the tele power is not enough, will save money to buy a 300 f4 .

Many thanks again.

KC

Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 is a much faster lens. I may loose from 900mm
to 600mm tele power, but still close enough.

Before I pay a lot of money, would like to ask:

1, Will the Nikon TC slow down the focusing time too bad?

Not too bad.

2, Does the combo has any softness or focusing problem ?

While the 70-200VR is one of my favorite lenses, it's not a
perfect match for any TC. You must consider that TC's work
at their best with PRIME lenses. 70-200VR + 1.4x produces
acceptable results but will only give you 280mm max. The
same lens + 2x TC does not do justice to the quality of the
lens, not to mention that you will lose two f-stops.

3, Does the VR work well with the Nikon 2X TC together ?

No problem.

The reason I do not choose 300mm f2.8 or Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8
because they are big and I will only use them in my bird chasing
trip. (I mean birds with wing .

Consider the Nikkor 300mm f/4 AF-S, which is about the same
size/weight as the 70-200VR and it's one of Nikon's sharpest
telephoto lenses. Moreover, it's the ideal match for a TC.
Mated to the TC14EII it will give you awesome quality at
420mm and it's still more than acceptable with a 2x TC at
600mm (f/8, of course...)

If I buy the 70-200mm VR, I can remove the TC and use
it for general use such as portrait etc when I am not in a
bird trip. Aren't I greedy ?

That's where the 70-200VR really shines. Like I said, it loses
too much when coupled with a teleconverter, especially
a 2x model.

Also, the VR seem attractive, it may help when I am free
holding shooting with maxium focal length at a far target.

The VR will NOT compensate for the movement of your subject,
and if you shoot birds, that's the real problem with slower shutter
speeds...

I am not very rich.

Then compromise. Get a new Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 HSM and a
used Nikkor 300mm AF-S for about the same price of a new
Nikkor 70-200VR. The Sigma is an excellent lens, I'd say about
90% of the 70-200VR.

Hope it helps.

------------------------------------------------
'Everything should be made as
simple as possible, but no simpler.'

(Albert Einstein)

• Equipment list in profile.

 

[K.C.Chan]

Paolo,

Me again, Just forgotten to ask if the Nikon 300D f4 go well with Nikon 2XTC ?

If it does. I am planning to buy both 1.4x and 2.0X.

In case I am not happy about the performance of 2.0X with 70-200 VR f2.8, at least I will not waste it and can use it on 300mm f4 in the future.

Most birds I am shooting such as tit, finch etc are quite small. I think I will buy the longer range of 300mm lens very soon.

Then I can cover from 70mm to 600mm with both lenses .

KC

Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8 is a much faster lens. I may loose from 900mm
to 600mm tele power, but still close enough.

Before I pay a lot of money, would like to ask:

1, Will the Nikon TC slow down the focusing time too bad?

Not too bad.

2, Does the combo has any softness or focusing problem ?

While the 70-200VR is one of my favorite lenses, it's not a
perfect match for any TC. You must consider that TC's work
at their best with PRIME lenses. 70-200VR + 1.4x produces
acceptable results but will only give you 280mm max. The
same lens + 2x TC does not do justice to the quality of the
lens, not to mention that you will lose two f-stops.

3, Does the VR work well with the Nikon 2X TC together ?

No problem.

The reason I do not choose 300mm f2.8 or Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8
because they are big and I will only use them in my bird chasing
trip. (I mean birds with wing .

Consider the Nikkor 300mm f/4 AF-S, which is about the same
size/weight as the 70-200VR and it's one of Nikon's sharpest
telephoto lenses. Moreover, it's the ideal match for a TC.
Mated to the TC14EII it will give you awesome quality at
420mm and it's still more than acceptable with a 2x TC at
600mm (f/8, of course...)

If I buy the 70-200mm VR, I can remove the TC and use
it for general use such as portrait etc when I am not in a
bird trip. Aren't I greedy ?

That's where the 70-200VR really shines. Like I said, it loses
too much when coupled with a teleconverter, especially
a 2x model.

Also, the VR seem attractive, it may help when I am free
holding shooting with maxium focal length at a far target.

The VR will NOT compensate for the movement of your subject,
and if you shoot birds, that's the real problem with slower shutter
speeds...

I am not very rich.

Then compromise. Get a new Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 HSM and a
used Nikkor 300mm AF-S for about the same price of a new
Nikkor 70-200VR. The Sigma is an excellent lens, I'd say about
90% of the 70-200VR.

Hope it helps.

------------------------------------------------
'Everything should be made as
simple as possible, but no simpler.'

(Albert Einstein)

• Equipment list in profile.