nik Sharpener Pro

Robert Whiteman

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No, I don't live under a rock somewhere BUT still, I've never heard of this program before. Just learned of it from the local camera shop while reserving some rental gear for an upcoming shoot. Camera Shop Guy (CSG) says it's "great" and said he had some sample prints with and w/o nik to show the difference. I guess I'll check the samples next time down there.

Anyone here know anything about it or have any experience with it? If so, how does it compare to the other programs many here are using, Flex-sharp, Fred Miranda, Quimage, etc?

nik seems a bit pricey unless it works wonders as the CSG seemed to be saying.

Robert
 
I tried a demo and it seemed to work great -- but it was hard to be certain without pulling large (and expensive) prints form the images I was working with.
No, I don't live under a rock somewhere BUT still, I've never heard
of this program before. Just learned of it from the local camera
shop while reserving some rental gear for an upcoming shoot. Camera
Shop Guy (CSG) says it's "great" and said he had some sample prints
with and w/o nik to show the difference. I guess I'll check the
samples next time down there.

Anyone here know anything about it or have any experience with it?
If so, how does it compare to the other programs many here are
using, Flex-sharp, Fred Miranda, Quimage, etc?

nik seems a bit pricey unless it works wonders as the CSG seemed to
be saying.

Robert
--
Share the beauty in the commonplace
 
It works, but it's a total pain to get the right amount required for a given print application. Flex-sharp, especially the new version, is much better, IMHO. Just follow the guidelines in the manual and you'll get perfect sharpening almost every time.

Happy shooting,

Freddy
No, I don't live under a rock somewhere BUT still, I've never heard
of this program before. Just learned of it from the local camera
shop while reserving some rental gear for an upcoming shoot. Camera
Shop Guy (CSG) says it's "great" and said he had some sample prints
with and w/o nik to show the difference. I guess I'll check the
samples next time down there.

Anyone here know anything about it or have any experience with it?
If so, how does it compare to the other programs many here are
using, Flex-sharp, Fred Miranda, Quimage, etc?

nik seems a bit pricey unless it works wonders as the CSG seemed to
be saying.

Robert
 
I use and like it very much though it is perhaps overpriced. Does a very good job of preserving smooth areas while intelligently sharpening areas of higher contrast while also maintaining subtle hues.

Tariq
Tariq.com
No, I don't live under a rock somewhere BUT still, I've never heard
of this program before. Just learned of it from the local camera
shop while reserving some rental gear for an upcoming shoot. Camera
Shop Guy (CSG) says it's "great" and said he had some sample prints
with and w/o nik to show the difference. I guess I'll check the
samples next time down there.

Anyone here know anything about it or have any experience with it?
If so, how does it compare to the other programs many here are
using, Flex-sharp, Fred Miranda, Quimage, etc?

nik seems a bit pricey unless it works wonders as the CSG seemed to
be saying.

Robert
 
Anyone here know anything about it or have any experience with it?
If so, how does it compare to the other programs many here are
using, Flex-sharp, Fred Miranda, Quimage, etc?
I have used Nik since my S1 days & find it excellent
it does not overly sharpen foliage or grass

most importantly, it sharpens based on the size and purpose of the resulting file ...sharpening is adjusted based on size of resulting image and distance at which the image will be viewed ...prints from nik are consistently well sharpened
I compared nik to Ferenc's FlexSharp some time ago



...this was an earlier iteration of Ferenc's sharpener action and not the present one ...I took his sample & compared it to a sharpening for web publication with nik ...you can see a full size version here http://www.pbase.com/image/16148196/original should you wish (640 K) ...I think the nik Sharpner Pro result has better preservation of detail, most notable in the begonia flower's petal, though this may be a quibble

the main advantages of nik are its excellent control of sharpening in foliage & grass (which can really get ugly with other, non selective sharpening techniques) and its adjustment for viewing purpose, print quality & size ...nik also calculates a sharpening score for your image, which while not a perfect measure does have some value in assessing images
nik seems a bit pricey unless it works wonders as the CSG seemed to
be saying
like a lens, nik Sharpener Pro should be a one time purchase & should serve you well for years (though you never know with software, Adobe has been pretty good about making PS back compatible) ...it is simple to use
Ferenc's software is a good deal less expensive & seems a fine alternative
--
pbase & dpreview supporter
Fuji SLRT forum member since 5/2001
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke
 
I have used Nik since my S1 days & find it excellent
it does not overly sharpen foliage or grass
most importantly, it sharpens based on the size and purpose of the
resulting file ...sharpening is adjusted based on size of resulting
image and distance at which the image will be viewed ...prints from
nik are consistently well sharpened
...this was an earlier iteration of Ferenc's sharpener action and
not the present one ...I took his sample & compared it to a
sharpening for web publication with nik ...you can see a full size
version here http://www.pbase.com/image/16148196/original should
you wish (640 K) ...I think the nik Sharpner Pro result has better
preservation of detail, most notable in the begonia flower's petal,
though this may be a quibble
the main advantages of nik are its excellent control of sharpening
in foliage & grass (which can really get ugly with other, non
selective sharpening techniques) and its adjustment for viewing
purpose, print quality & size ...nik also calculates a sharpening
score for your image, which while not a perfect measure does have
some value in assessing images
Thanks! The larger sample group on pbase really shows what the nik program can do. The subtil details are much better and less "digital" than the other two. The CSG (camera shop guy) was really sold on it's capabilities and is also an S2 user/fan. His price is lower than that on the nik site also.

I've downloaded the free demo and will give it a go when I get some time to figure it out.

Appreciate the response people.

Robert
 
...There is much more to sharpening than trying to establish "optimal" Thresholds, radius, strength, etc., which Nik's does with a good deal of effort and attention to detail.

What is really happening here is that Nik's approach to the matter is rather a forward-looking one. In other words, whenever you jump into Nik's to perform the sharpening (and final) steps of your workflow, it does look towards the final output "goal" but... it does forget much of the past or prior work done during your workflow, including the attributes of the actual capture (Subject, ISO speed), etc.

On the other hand, FLEXSharp offers a different value proposition: let's have a true, "back-to-back" look of the entire workflow, giving us the opportunity to take into account everything we have done so far to the images (from capture to the side-effects of our basic workflow steps), and let's also consider the final output goal-media, so we factor in all these variables and produce the best possible results, while still being able to preserve our images' integrity as high as we can.

As a result, FLEXSharp is flexible enough to offer:

-Control of Noise levels derived from a wide range of ISO speeds

-Control Noise derived from intermediate workflow steps (Lelvels, curves, etc. which all increase noise).

-Sensitivity to distribution of spatial frequency on the original capture, translating into the ability to separate skies and clouds, from skin, hair, leaves in the shadows of trees, grass, coarse surfaces of roads or mid frequency textures pulled out from noise in purely flat areas, etc.

-Control of low and high frequency artifacts (dark or bright halos, abnormally bright spots or edges, compression "crystals", etc.).

-Control of image-enhacement attributes of the sharpening process, such as MicroContrast levels, and overall dimensionality (a benefit of shooting digital). Micro-contrast is KEY for achieving an optimal balance of "edge" sharpness, low-to-mid frequency detail enhancement, actual strenght of sharpening required, and final output goals (DPI, size, etc.)

-Ability to choose balance of spatial frequency enhancement bias (low and high, or mid-to-high, for instance). This is extremely important in order to extract true detail from ISO 200-800 shots, while still preserving dimensionality and maximizing S/N ratios, where practically ALL sharpening tools avaialble out there fall apart.

-Overall image quality and integrity preservation, regardless of how soft or hard you go on the sharpening throttle.

-Keep things simple , with minimal or no intervention of end user.

Below you can find the example on hand (from which I have the original ORF file, shot with Sigma's 50mm EX Macro). This tree log/trunk lives in the back of my yard, where I can evaluate how true-to-live the results posted here are (FLEXSharp-v1.4 and NIK's left):



The sample posted here is intended of very high DPI output. Not necessarily for a "soft-and-pleasant" look on your screen (even though, in real life, it is does not look soft either).

Compare (in both samples) the brigh-colored spots and dark halos around the edges of leaves, etc., as well as the levels of noise in shadows and detail-intensive areas ( do not confuse noise with detail, as I see this log every day and I can tell you how it really looks).

In this case, I ran FLEXSharp directly over the entire crop, with no help from the FLEXMask masking routines, and, as you can see, there is a strict control of the signal-to-noise ratio built-on the sharpening filters and parameters. That's why Nik's sample look rather "grainy" and less-dimenstional, whereas FLEXSharp looks crisper and more dimensional (sharpened areas stand-out more, and they will do so in paper, as well).

Well, that's enough for today. Just my two cents on what I believe sharpening needs to be when it comes to enhancing and extracting the best out of our work.

Happy shooting!
 
It works great, especially for those who neither have the time nor experience to learn the secrets of doing it properly in PS. In truth, PS is capable of doing the same thing in the right hands. This help? It ain't cheap.

Steve Bingham
http://www.dustylens.com
 
...There is much more to sharpening than trying to establish
"optimal" Thresholds, radius, strength, etc., which Nik's does with
a good deal of effort and attention to detail.
The two samples look very good and quite similar to each other. The slight differences that I do notice are the circled areas such as the bark texture in the lower contrast areas and the deeper shadow detail.



The nik version seems to carry a bit more detail in these areas which can be noticed also in the detail of the "hairs" on the plant. Faintly sharper with the nik sample. Most of this would not be noticed by most viewers looking at a print. Unlike most of us here, the public is mostly drawn to the pretty colors and other obvious details and I'd guess that 98% would think they are the very same. However, when you scrutinize images on a daily basis it's a different thing. Differences, however slight, can be noticeable.

Most of your post is a bit over my head at this time but the examples help to see what's possible.

Thanks,

Robert
 
It works great, especially for those who neither have the time nor
experience to learn the secrets of doing it properly in PS. In
truth, PS is capable of doing the same thing in the right hands.
This help? It ain't cheap.
Not sure just how or where one could learn the secrets to "properly" use PS for for ultimate image manipulation although I've been able to get quite a bit of control with experimenting and the results have been fairly satisfactory to me. I'm just not familiar with some of the other "programs" that claim to give optimum results. I suppose taking the time to sample each one to compare is ultimately the way to go.

Nice to have other views on the subject.

As for the price, it becomes irrelevant just like the purchase of a more expensive but better performing lens. The end product is what becomes important and all costs are justified when the desired results are achived. When one's craft is for sale my feeling is that no reasonable cost should be a deterrent for getting the best possible product.

Thanks everyone for all the imput so far.

Robert
 
I own both, and I can honestly say that I prefer Flexsharp.

Nik is not bed, in fact is good, but Flexsharp is better.
Could you post a side-by-side of the two showing the advantages of Flexsharp? In the sample posted above nik gets the nod for extracting slightly more detail out of certain areas. Perhaps a newer version of Flexsharp would do better? What is the latest version?

Robert
 
Hi Robert,

Very good discussion going on here. Ultimately, the results achieved by either Nik Sharpener Pro or Flexsharp are very much dependant on the abilities of the end user. I have seen many Flexsharp examples and know it is possible to get just as good results from that set of actions versus Nik Sharpener Pro, PhotoKit Sharpener or probably any other sharpening tool. The question for me becomes one of ease of use to acheive the same quality results. Here I think Nik Sharpener Pro has a very simple user interface with great feedback as to what is being sharpened and what is not. Currently, I think their are three "profiles" - Anna, John and Zap which go from more subtle to extreme in the amount of sharpenig BUT when these are combined with the output desired(Color Laser, Inkjet, Offset or web) and size(book, poster, ect.) the combinations become many. The novice can simply pick the output type, output size and choose one of the three parameters . Again the immidiate visual feedback allows for quick comparisons. Ferencs Flexsharp action has many more individual "tweaks" perhaps which in experienced hands could give as good results but to my Knowledge(I don't own or use FlexSharp) their is no immidiate feedback to what the various tweaks(micro contrast, etc.) are actually doing to the image until you run them(they are Photoshop Actions). If I'm wrong on this, I'm sure someone will correct me please. So, to achieve similar results in Flexsharp would require more time and hassle. Thats just my opinion though and I know many on this forum swear by FlexSharp.

Tariq
Tariq.com
I own both, and I can honestly say that I prefer Flexsharp.

Nik is not bed, in fact is good, but Flexsharp is better.
Could you post a side-by-side of the two showing the advantages of
Flexsharp? In the sample posted above nik gets the nod for
extracting slightly more detail out of certain areas. Perhaps a
newer version of Flexsharp would do better? What is the latest
version?

Robert
 
Niksharpen does
...There is much more to sharpening than trying to establish
"optimal" Thresholds, radius, strength, etc., which Nik's does with
a good deal of effort and attention to detail.

What is really happening here is that Nik's approach to the matter
is rather a forward-looking one. In other words, whenever you jump
into Nik's to perform the sharpening (and final) steps of your
workflow, it does look towards the final output "goal" but... it
does forget much of the past or prior work done during your
workflow, including the attributes of the actual capture (Subject,
ISO speed), etc.

On the other hand, FLEXSharp offers a different value proposition:
let's have a true, "back-to-back" look of the entire workflow,
giving us the opportunity to take into account everything we have
done so far to the images (from capture to the side-effects of our
basic workflow steps), and let's also consider the final output
goal-media, so we factor in all these variables and produce the
best possible results, while still being able to preserve our
images' integrity as high as we can.

As a result, FLEXSharp is flexible enough to offer:

-Control of Noise levels derived from a wide range of ISO speeds
-Control Noise derived from intermediate workflow steps (Lelvels,
curves, etc. which all increase noise).

-Sensitivity to distribution of spatial frequency on the original
capture, translating into the ability to separate skies and clouds,
from skin, hair, leaves in the shadows of trees, grass, coarse
surfaces of roads or mid frequency textures pulled out from noise
in purely flat areas, etc.

-Control of low and high frequency artifacts (dark or bright halos,
abnormally bright spots or edges, compression "crystals", etc.).

-Control of image-enhacement attributes of the sharpening process,
such as MicroContrast levels, and overall dimensionality (a benefit
of shooting digital). Micro-contrast is KEY for achieving an
optimal balance of "edge" sharpness, low-to-mid frequency detail
enhancement, actual strenght of sharpening required, and final
output goals (DPI, size, etc.)

-Ability to choose balance of spatial frequency enhancement bias
(low and high, or mid-to-high, for instance). This is extremely
important in order to extract true detail from ISO 200-800 shots,
while still preserving dimensionality and maximizing S/N ratios,
where practically ALL sharpening tools avaialble out there fall
apart.

-Overall image quality and integrity preservation, regardless of
how soft or hard you go on the sharpening throttle.

-Keep things simple , with minimal or no intervention of end user.

Below you can find the example on hand (from which I have the
original ORF file, shot with Sigma's 50mm EX Macro). This tree
log/trunk lives in the back of my yard, where I can evaluate how
true-to-live the results posted here are (FLEXSharp-v1.4 and NIK's
left):



The sample posted here is intended of very high DPI output. Not
necessarily for a "soft-and-pleasant" look on your screen (even
though, in real life, it is does not look soft either).

Compare (in both samples) the brigh-colored spots and dark halos
around the edges of leaves, etc., as well as the levels of noise in
shadows and detail-intensive areas ( do not confuse noise with
detail, as I see this log every day and I can tell you how it
really looks).

In this case, I ran FLEXSharp directly over the entire crop, with
no help from the FLEXMask masking routines, and, as you can see,
there is a strict control of the signal-to-noise ratio built-on the
sharpening filters and parameters. That's why Nik's sample look
rather "grainy" and less-dimenstional, whereas FLEXSharp looks
crisper and more dimensional (sharpened areas stand-out more, and
they will do so in paper, as well).

Well, that's enough for today. Just my two cents on what I believe
sharpening needs to be when it comes to enhancing and extracting
the best out of our work.

Happy shooting!
--
Share the beauty in the commonplace
 
It's a Photoshop action so you just load it up and get to work on your images :-)

I've only scratched the surface with it but I like it better than using unsharp mask. The frustrating part is there are no flextone curves for Mac.

Cheers
Nas
...There is much more to sharpening than trying to establish
"optimal" Thresholds, radius, strength, etc., which Nik's does with
a good deal of effort and attention to detail.

What is really happening here is that Nik's approach to the matter
is rather a forward-looking one. In other words, whenever you jump
into Nik's to perform the sharpening (and final) steps of your
workflow, it does look towards the final output "goal" but... it
does forget much of the past or prior work done during your
workflow, including the attributes of the actual capture (Subject,
ISO speed), etc.

On the other hand, FLEXSharp offers a different value proposition:
let's have a true, "back-to-back" look of the entire workflow,
giving us the opportunity to take into account everything we have
done so far to the images (from capture to the side-effects of our
basic workflow steps), and let's also consider the final output
goal-media, so we factor in all these variables and produce the
best possible results, while still being able to preserve our
images' integrity as high as we can.

As a result, FLEXSharp is flexible enough to offer:

-Control of Noise levels derived from a wide range of ISO speeds
-Control Noise derived from intermediate workflow steps (Lelvels,
curves, etc. which all increase noise).

-Sensitivity to distribution of spatial frequency on the original
capture, translating into the ability to separate skies and clouds,
from skin, hair, leaves in the shadows of trees, grass, coarse
surfaces of roads or mid frequency textures pulled out from noise
in purely flat areas, etc.

-Control of low and high frequency artifacts (dark or bright halos,
abnormally bright spots or edges, compression "crystals", etc.).

-Control of image-enhacement attributes of the sharpening process,
such as MicroContrast levels, and overall dimensionality (a benefit
of shooting digital). Micro-contrast is KEY for achieving an
optimal balance of "edge" sharpness, low-to-mid frequency detail
enhancement, actual strenght of sharpening required, and final
output goals (DPI, size, etc.)

-Ability to choose balance of spatial frequency enhancement bias
(low and high, or mid-to-high, for instance). This is extremely
important in order to extract true detail from ISO 200-800 shots,
while still preserving dimensionality and maximizing S/N ratios,
where practically ALL sharpening tools avaialble out there fall
apart.

-Overall image quality and integrity preservation, regardless of
how soft or hard you go on the sharpening throttle.

-Keep things simple , with minimal or no intervention of end user.

Below you can find the example on hand (from which I have the
original ORF file, shot with Sigma's 50mm EX Macro). This tree
log/trunk lives in the back of my yard, where I can evaluate how
true-to-live the results posted here are (FLEXSharp-v1.4 and NIK's
left):



The sample posted here is intended of very high DPI output. Not
necessarily for a "soft-and-pleasant" look on your screen (even
though, in real life, it is does not look soft either).

Compare (in both samples) the brigh-colored spots and dark halos
around the edges of leaves, etc., as well as the levels of noise in
shadows and detail-intensive areas ( do not confuse noise with
detail, as I see this log every day and I can tell you how it
really looks).

In this case, I ran FLEXSharp directly over the entire crop, with
no help from the FLEXMask masking routines, and, as you can see,
there is a strict control of the signal-to-noise ratio built-on the
sharpening filters and parameters. That's why Nik's sample look
rather "grainy" and less-dimenstional, whereas FLEXSharp looks
crisper and more dimensional (sharpened areas stand-out more, and
they will do so in paper, as well).

Well, that's enough for today. Just my two cents on what I believe
sharpening needs to be when it comes to enhancing and extracting
the best out of our work.

Happy shooting!
--
Share the beauty in the commonplace
--
-------------------------------------------
i reserve the right to an opinion
 
bossnas wrote:
The frustrating part is there are no flextone
curves for Mac.

Cheers
Nas
Nas,

Ferenc recently published screen shots of EX wiith the curves and exposure compensation set to his presets on another thread so Mac users could generate the default files (PC and Mac versions of EX differ in the file formats so they're not interchangeable. Dumb move on Fuji's part).

I'll have to look for that post - or maybe he could post it again here.

VL
 

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