USB2.0 for D70?

[Photobug197965]

All info so far says USB or USB1.1. However, the last page of this review
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_intro.shtml

says "USB 2.0 (Full Speed, similar transfer rate to USB 1.1)"

What do they mean? Do they know what others don't?

--

Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina 20-35 (all AF lenses)

 

[De Taeye Jimmy]

it's of no importance
everybody uses a card reader these days

All info so far says USB or USB1.1. However, the last page of this
review
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_intro.shtml

says "USB 2.0 (Full Speed, similar transfer rate to USB 1.1)"

What do they mean? Do they know what others don't?

--
Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina
20-35 (all AF lenses)

 

[DRG]

All info so far says USB or USB1.1. However, the last page of this
review
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_intro.shtml

says "USB 2.0 (Full Speed, similar transfer rate to USB 1.1)"

What do they mean? Do they know what others don't?

USB 2.0 is just another revision of the USB spec. Whereas USB 1.1 included 1.5Mpbs and 12Mpbs modes (Low Speed and Full Speed), USB 2.0 just adds one more mode: 480Mpbs (High Speed).

So, the D70 spec basically says that the D70 is compliant with the USB 2.0 spec, which includes the Full Speed, 12Mpbs mode. Think of it as a confusing way to say USB 1.1.

David

 

[Photobug197965]

If a product says "USB 2.0", it has to offer 2.0 speed of up to 480Mbps. Otherwise it's a fraud.

Indeed this 1.1 or 2.0 is not that big a deal as I almost use card reader exclusively. But still will be nice to have 2.0 or at least the fact cleared.

All info so far says USB or USB1.1. However, the last page of this
review
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_intro.shtml

says "USB 2.0 (Full Speed, similar transfer rate to USB 1.1)"

What do they mean? Do they know what others don't?

USB 2.0 is just another revision of the USB spec. Whereas USB 1.1
included 1.5Mpbs and 12Mpbs modes (Low Speed and Full Speed), USB
2.0 just adds one more mode: 480Mpbs (High Speed).

So, the D70 spec basically says that the D70 is compliant with the
USB 2.0 spec, which includes the Full Speed, 12Mpbs mode. Think of
it as a confusing way to say USB 1.1.

David

--

Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina 20-35 (all AF lenses)

 

[gheijnen]

Ehien,

can be the USB electronic circuit is USB 2.0 capable but the hardware behind (D70) is not able to deliver data faster than 12Mpbs.

Never saw an external harddisk or CD-rom with USB2.0 connection that was able to transfer 480 Mpbs ...

If D70 transfer-rate is 15Mpbs it uses USB2.0 but nevertheless its similar transfer rate to USB 1.1 ...

Geert Heijnen

Indeed this 1.1 or 2.0 is not that big a deal as I almost use card
reader exclusively. But still will be nice to have 2.0 or at least
the fact cleared.

All info so far says USB or USB1.1. However, the last page of this
review
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_intro.shtml

says "USB 2.0 (Full Speed, similar transfer rate to USB 1.1)"

What do they mean? Do they know what others don't?

USB 2.0 is just another revision of the USB spec. Whereas USB 1.1
included 1.5Mpbs and 12Mpbs modes (Low Speed and Full Speed), USB
2.0 just adds one more mode: 480Mpbs (High Speed).

So, the D70 spec basically says that the D70 is compliant with the
USB 2.0 spec, which includes the Full Speed, 12Mpbs mode. Think of
it as a confusing way to say USB 1.1.

David

--
Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina
20-35 (all AF lenses)

 

[kaiyen]

Actually...

This is basically a marketing thing. USB 2.0 "high speed" is actually no faster than USB 1.1. I think it has to do with a loophole in the spec that allows you to call essentially a USB 1.1 connection USB 2.0 "high speed."

A USB "full speed" (or something like that) is the 480mbps connection.

It's not fraud, it's just marketing. This happened with a lot of devices that used that utterly misleading "high speed" name.

k.

Indeed this 1.1 or 2.0 is not that big a deal as I almost use card
reader exclusively. But still will be nice to have 2.0 or at least
the fact cleared.

All info so far says USB or USB1.1. However, the last page of this
review
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_intro.shtml

says "USB 2.0 (Full Speed, similar transfer rate to USB 1.1)"

What do they mean? Do they know what others don't?

USB 2.0 is just another revision of the USB spec. Whereas USB 1.1
included 1.5Mpbs and 12Mpbs modes (Low Speed and Full Speed), USB
2.0 just adds one more mode: 480Mpbs (High Speed).

So, the D70 spec basically says that the D70 is compliant with the
USB 2.0 spec, which includes the Full Speed, 12Mpbs mode. Think of
it as a confusing way to say USB 1.1.

David

--
Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina
20-35 (all AF lenses)

--
http://www.pbase.com/romosoho (not much there yet)

 

[D.R. Barnhart]

If a product says "USB 2.0", it has to offer 2.0 speed of up to
480Mbps. Otherwise it's a fraud.

Not true, sorry.

But still will be nice to have 2.0 or at least the fact cleared.

OK...

The folks that do the naming conventions for USB (USB.org, I believe), in their infinite wisdom have decided on the following:

The OLD way -

USB 1.0 = 1.5 Mbps

USB 1.1 = 12 Mbps

The NEW way -

USB 2.0 (low speed) = 1.5 Mbps

USB 2.0 (full speed) = 12 Mbps

USB 2.0 (high speed) = 480 Mbps

The D70 is apparently "USB (full speed)" therefore equal to the old USB 1.1.

This is not fraud, just marketing.

By the way, these transfer rates should be read as "up to..." whatever speed. It doesn't necessarily mean they WILL transfer at those speeds.

Hope that clears it up for you...

D.R.Barnhart

 

[Photobug197965]

Really! Can't believe USB org. adopted such a misleading and confusing naming scheme. Expect tons of class actions ahead.

Thanks for explaining anyway!

If a product says "USB 2.0", it has to offer 2.0 speed of up to
480Mbps. Otherwise it's a fraud.

Not true, sorry.

But still will be nice to have 2.0 or at least the fact cleared.

OK...

The folks that do the naming conventions for USB (USB.org, I
believe), in their infinite wisdom have decided on the following:

The OLD way -

USB 1.0 = 1.5 Mbps

USB 1.1 = 12 Mbps

The NEW way -

USB 2.0 (low speed) = 1.5 Mbps

USB 2.0 (full speed) = 12 Mbps

USB 2.0 (high speed) = 480 Mbps

The D70 is apparently "USB (full speed)" therefore equal to the old
USB 1.1.

This is not fraud, just marketing.

By the way, these transfer rates should be read as "up to..."
whatever speed. It doesn't necessarily mean they WILL transfer at
those speeds.

Hope that clears it up for you...

D.R.Barnhart

--

Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina 20-35 (all AF lenses)

 

[DANIEL NGUYEN]

There are way too much momentum for USB 2.0 for any kind of naming convention to identify the different speed now. Doesn't matter where it came from, USB 2.0 now stands for 480Mbps. USB 1.1 stands for 11Mbps. Nobody remembers the 1.5Mbps, or the USB 2.0 full-speed, or the USB 2.0 low-speed...

Nikon risks class-action lawsuits if it decide on this course.

D.

Thanks for explaining anyway!

If a product says "USB 2.0", it has to offer 2.0 speed of up to
480Mbps. Otherwise it's a fraud.

Not true, sorry.

But still will be nice to have 2.0 or at least the fact cleared.

OK...

The folks that do the naming conventions for USB (USB.org, I
believe), in their infinite wisdom have decided on the following:

The OLD way -

USB 1.0 = 1.5 Mbps

USB 1.1 = 12 Mbps

The NEW way -

USB 2.0 (low speed) = 1.5 Mbps

USB 2.0 (full speed) = 12 Mbps

USB 2.0 (high speed) = 480 Mbps

The D70 is apparently "USB (full speed)" therefore equal to the old
USB 1.1.

This is not fraud, just marketing.

By the way, these transfer rates should be read as "up to..."
whatever speed. It doesn't necessarily mean they WILL transfer at
those speeds.

Hope that clears it up for you...

D.R.Barnhart

--
Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina
20-35 (all AF lenses)

 

[Paul McHale]

There was a lot of stink about this in engineering. The problem was one of compatability. The USB forum felt people would think the USB2.0 480Mb (high speed) was not backward compatable with USB1.X 12/1.5Mb (full/low speed) products. They panicked and declared slower deviced could declare they were 2.0.

This is the same as mice saying they are USB1.1 (low) even though they are 1.5Mb. Apparently some vendors are not USB2.0 compatible as well. Some USB1.1 designs did not operate properly on a USB2.0 system. The forum tried to protect/reward those who build compatable devices.

It was a hard decision for them. I think they screwed the pooch. The implicit 2.0 performance is unacceptable. They should have had a clearer separation. Believe me, they have had plenty of gripes.

All info so far says USB or USB1.1. However, the last page of this
review
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_intro.shtml

says "USB 2.0 (Full Speed, similar transfer rate to USB 1.1)"

What do they mean? Do they know what others don't?

--
Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina
20-35 (all AF lenses)

 

[Paul McHale]

Though unfortunate, they are following the spec.

Nikon risks class-action lawsuits if it decide on this course.

D.

Thanks for explaining anyway!

If a product says "USB 2.0", it has to offer 2.0 speed of up to
480Mbps. Otherwise it's a fraud.

Not true, sorry.

But still will be nice to have 2.0 or at least the fact cleared.

OK...

The folks that do the naming conventions for USB (USB.org, I
believe), in their infinite wisdom have decided on the following:

The OLD way -

USB 1.0 = 1.5 Mbps

USB 1.1 = 12 Mbps

The NEW way -

USB 2.0 (low speed) = 1.5 Mbps

USB 2.0 (full speed) = 12 Mbps

USB 2.0 (high speed) = 480 Mbps

The D70 is apparently "USB (full speed)" therefore equal to the old
USB 1.1.

This is not fraud, just marketing.

By the way, these transfer rates should be read as "up to..."
whatever speed. It doesn't necessarily mean they WILL transfer at
those speeds.

Hope that clears it up for you...

D.R.Barnhart

--
Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina
20-35 (all AF lenses)

 

[D.R. Barnhart]

There are way too much momentum for USB 2.0 for any kind of naming
convention to identify the different speed now.

I'm not sure I understand what this has to do with it?

Doesn't matter where it came from,...

Well, actually it does. Those are the folks that write the standards and naming conventions for USB.

...USB 2.0 now stands for 480Mbps. USB 1.1 stands for 11Mbps.

Not anymore! Example, look at Nikon's own rating of the D70.

[snip]

Nikon risks class-action lawsuits if it decide on this course.

It's not their decision unless they prefer to go "non-standard" (as in USB 1.0, USB 1.1, and USB 2.0). I think that would cause the most problems.

They're just following the standards and conventions set by the USB people. Don't you have to do that if you want to use their logo and their technology? There's nothing to sue about.

D.R.Barnhart

 

[DoF]

this is such old news and no class actions yet - if you want to start one let me know

Thanks for explaining anyway!

If a product says "USB 2.0", it has to offer 2.0 speed of up to
480Mbps. Otherwise it's a fraud.

Not true, sorry.

But still will be nice to have 2.0 or at least the fact cleared.

OK...

The folks that do the naming conventions for USB (USB.org, I
believe), in their infinite wisdom have decided on the following:

The OLD way -

USB 1.0 = 1.5 Mbps

USB 1.1 = 12 Mbps

The NEW way -

USB 2.0 (low speed) = 1.5 Mbps

USB 2.0 (full speed) = 12 Mbps

USB 2.0 (high speed) = 480 Mbps

The D70 is apparently "USB (full speed)" therefore equal to the old
USB 1.1.

This is not fraud, just marketing.

By the way, these transfer rates should be read as "up to..."
whatever speed. It doesn't necessarily mean they WILL transfer at
those speeds.

Hope that clears it up for you...

D.R.Barnhart

--
Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina
20-35 (all AF lenses)

 

[Dirtyharry71]

I don't use it (not even on my CP5700)
so it isn't a deciding factor for me
they even could have made it without USB

All info so far says USB or USB1.1. However, the last page of this
review
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD70_intro.shtml

says "USB 2.0 (Full Speed, similar transfer rate to USB 1.1)"

What do they mean? Do they know what others don't?

--
Nikon F601 (N6006), FM, Nikkor 50/1.4, 80-200/2.8, 35-80, Tokina
20-35 (all AF lenses)

 

[Photobug197965]

Indeed the USB standard setting committee made a confusing decision (from my POV). This is what they say on their web site's FAQ about related issue:

All USB 2.0-compliant systems, such as laptop, notebook, and desktop computers, must by definition support all three data rates: 1.5 Mb/s, 12 Mb/s, and 480 Mb/s. The nature of peripherals, however, creates a situation that is a little less clear. One class of peripherals may be available with either the fast data-transfer rate of 480 Mb/s or the slower data-transfer rate of 12 Mb/s. Included are:

digital cameras
CD-ROM burners
DVD drives
motherboards
flash card readers
adapter cards
scanners
other products

The second class of peripherals operates at slower speeds because these peripherals do not need fast data-transfer rates. (And if they supported such performance, it would add considerably to their cost to the consumer.) These include:

joysticks
keyboards
mice
other products
They operate at the two lower data-transfer rates of either 1.5 Mb/s or 12 Mb/s.

The link is:
http://www.usb.org/info/usb_nomenclature

What they are recommending are:

-If a computer is labeled USB 2.0, then it must support speeds up to 480Mbps; but if a digital camera is labeled USB 2.0, then it is ok to support only up to 12Mbps.

-USB 2.0 or 1.1 are not recommended to be used as nomenclature as the numbers are just revision numbers. Instead to label a device that support 480Mbps transfer rate, the "High-speed USB" logo should be used.

Well I see the problem created by both poor decision on USB.org (requesting USB 2.0 computer to support 480Mbps but not so for DSC) and USB device makers' not following the recommendations (many used USB 2.0 nomenclature that's not recommended by USB.org).

I guess D70 supports USB 12Mbps but not 480Mbps as nowhere was it mentioned with "High-speed USB" (which D2H does).

Ehieh

 

[Dan Champagne]

A usb 2 or firewire card reader is the way
to go. Keep the camera off . Besides, Lexar
is quirky if not read in their own readers.
Kinda like using a tape rewinder to save
on the VCR.

All USB 2.0-compliant systems, such as laptop, notebook, and
desktop computers, must by definition support all three data rates:
1.5 Mb/s, 12 Mb/s, and 480 Mb/s. The nature of peripherals,
however, creates a situation that is a little less clear. One class
of peripherals may be available with either the fast data-transfer
rate of 480 Mb/s or the slower data-transfer rate of 12 Mb/s.
Included are:

digital cameras
CD-ROM burners
DVD drives
motherboards
flash card readers
adapter cards
scanners
other products
The second class of peripherals operates at slower speeds because
these peripherals do not need fast data-transfer rates. (And if
they supported such performance, it would add considerably to their
cost to the consumer.) These include:

joysticks
keyboards
mice
other products
They operate at the two lower data-transfer rates of either 1.5
Mb/s or 12 Mb/s.

The link is:
http://www.usb.org/info/usb_nomenclature

What they are recommending are:

-If a computer is labeled USB 2.0, then it must support speeds up
to 480Mbps; but if a digital camera is labeled USB 2.0, then it is
ok to support only up to 12Mbps.

-USB 2.0 or 1.1 are not recommended to be used as nomenclature as
the numbers are just revision numbers. Instead to label a device
that support 480Mbps transfer rate, the "High-speed USB" logo
should be used.

Well I see the problem created by both poor decision on USB.org
(requesting USB 2.0 computer to support 480Mbps but not so for DSC)
and USB device makers' not following the recommendations (many used
USB 2.0 nomenclature that's not recommended by USB.org).

I guess D70 supports USB 12Mbps but not 480Mbps as nowhere was it
mentioned with "High-speed USB" (which D2H does).

Ehieh

 

[Thom Hogan]

Really! Can't believe USB org. adopted such a misleading and
confusing naming scheme. Expect tons of class actions ahead.

Actually, this is being done to eradicate a big problem that USB device providers were finding. If you marked something USB 2.0, many people with a USB 1.1 capable computer thought you couldn't use it. If you labeled a device as USB 1.1, lots of people with a USB 2.0 capable computer also thought that it wouldn't work. Given that the cables are identical and a fully developed USB 2.0 computer/hub should default to the lower speeds of USB 1.1, this was problematic.

Personally, I don't like the way the USB consortium ended up labeling things. But once people started marketing computers as having USB 2.0 ports, it pretty much guaranteed that there was going to be confusion in the market, no matter how anyone labels their product.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guides to the Nikon D100, D1, D1h, & D1x and Fujifilm S2
http://www.bythom.com

 

[Steve47416]

All USB 2.0-compliant systems, such as laptop, notebook, and
desktop computers, must by definition support all three data rates:
1.5 Mb/s, 12 Mb/s, and 480 Mb/s. The nature of peripherals,
however, creates a situation that is a little less clear. One class
of peripherals may be available with either the fast data-transfer
rate of 480 Mb/s or the slower data-transfer rate of 12 Mb/s.
Included are:

digital cameras
CD-ROM burners
DVD drives
motherboards
flash card readers
adapter cards
scanners
other products
The second class of peripherals operates at slower speeds because
these peripherals do not need fast data-transfer rates. (And if
they supported such performance, it would add considerably to their
cost to the consumer.) These include:

joysticks
keyboards
mice
other products
They operate at the two lower data-transfer rates of either 1.5
Mb/s or 12 Mb/s.

The link is:
http://www.usb.org/info/usb_nomenclature

What they are recommending are:

-If a computer is labeled USB 2.0, then it must support speeds up
to 480Mbps; but if a digital camera is labeled USB 2.0, then it is
ok to support only up to 12Mbps.

-USB 2.0 or 1.1 are not recommended to be used as nomenclature as
the numbers are just revision numbers. Instead to label a device
that support 480Mbps transfer rate, the "High-speed USB" logo
should be used.

Well I see the problem created by both poor decision on USB.org
(requesting USB 2.0 computer to support 480Mbps but not so for DSC)
and USB device makers' not following the recommendations (many used
USB 2.0 nomenclature that's not recommended by USB.org).

I guess D70 supports USB 12Mbps but not 480Mbps as nowhere was it
mentioned with "High-speed USB" (which D2H does).

Ehieh

Hi,
I never hook up my camera through the USB to download the pictures

to the PC. I installed a PCI base PCMCIA card reader in my PC. But the point is that you want to have a fast USB interface for camera control or studio tethered operation so you can shoot and view it on the PC as soon as possible.

Steve Provisor