things may be improved a lot merely by the firmware modification

[Homl]

Yes, I agree with you that some of the functions are locked away by software and its extremely easy for Canon to give them all back to us with just a simple firmware upgrade. I am also sure that they already have the firmware developed.

It is no different than Adobe Photoshop and Elements. Elements is a deliberately dumb down version of the full Photoshop with some new interface. Adobe actually took effort to dumb it down, figure that. LOL. However, they can offer the Element for very little money, so regular folk like some of us could have access to most of the features of their wonderful Photoshop.

What is wrong with Canon giving us the DRebel for very little money so we regular folk can have access to most of the features of their wonderful 10D? Hey, its image quality and performance still exceeds the competition's more expensive DSLRs.

A VW Golf with Porsche drivetrain and automatic transmission. ;-)

That is the wrong analogy.
Its more like: You pay full price for a Porsche with a standard
transmission and half price for one with a shiftable automatic
transmission. You have all the power and performance. You just
can't control the power as well. There are no spoilers, stereo
system, power sunroof and fancy mags, but the higher performance
tires are included.

Not a bad deal if you ask me. ;-)

Well, first of all let me say that I love my Rebel. It is really an
outstanding value, even without the additional capabilities of the
10D. BUT ...

I still say my analogy is better. The cost to produce a Porsche
with manual transmission is fundamentally different than a Porsche
with some kind of sport shift auto. Putting aside the differences
in price due to build quality, the cost of the technology used in
building the 300D is the same as the 10D. All the components were
included in the box when you took it home from the store.

If you prefer a transmission analogy, what if Porsche manuafactured
the exact same car except they didn't cut out a space in the
console for 5th and 6th gears. Same transmission, same car, they
just permanently blocked your access to 5th and 6th to reduce the
performance of your "cheaper" car. That does not make any sense at
all to produce a car that is artificially crippled just so as not
to cannibalize a "higher end" model. It's frankly a little
insulting. If the 300D did not have the capability locked inside,
it would be easier to digest, but it DOES. That is why people are
incensed by the decision to do this.

I am tickled with my Rebel, but I wish Canon would do the right
thing and let us use the product to its full abilities.

BLUTO loves his Rebel and would buy another one if this one broke.

 

[cottagefisherman]

Don't ask Canon to fix your mistakes. Sell the 300D on ebay and buy
a 10D.

Secondly, every company has their own thing, thats what makes
cameras different. If you aren't happy with the Canon way, go get a
Nikon or Fuji. Oh thats right, Canon is the best (at this second in
my humble opinion). So tough wait for something else. Patience
people.

??? Grow up people.
Andrew

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

The mega pixels isn't the problem ..... it's the underexposed flash pictures that is.

 

[Blue60407]

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

--
Blue
http://www.pbase.com/image/7450272

 

[Homl]

Are you saying that the picture quality, shutter lag, processing and autofocus speed of the DRebel is inferior to the 10D? I don't recall those being crippled. To me, those are the performance parts.

That is the wrong analogy.
Its more like: You pay full price for a Porsche with a standard
transmission and half price for one with a shiftable automatic
transmission. You have all the power and performance. You just
can't control the power as well. There are no spoilers, stereo
system, power sunroof and fancy mags, but the higher performance
tires are included.

Not a bad deal if you ask me. ;-)

Well, first of all let me say that I love my Rebel. It is really an
outstanding value, even without the additional capabilities of the
10D. BUT ...

I still say my analogy is better. The cost to produce a Porsche
with manual transmission is fundamentally different than a Porsche
with some kind of sport shift auto. Putting aside the differences
in price due to build quality, the cost of the technology used in
building the 300D is the same as the 10D. All the components were
included in the box when you took it home from the store.

If you prefer a transmission analogy, what if Porsche manuafactured
the exact same car except they didn't cut out a space in the
console for 5th and 6th gears. Same transmission, same car, they
just permanently blocked your access to 5th and 6th to reduce the
performance of your "cheaper" car. That does not make any sense at
all to produce a car that is artificially crippled just so as not
to cannibalize a "higher end" model. It's frankly a little
insulting. If the 300D did not have the capability locked inside,
it would be easier to digest, but it DOES. That is why people are
incensed by the decision to do this.

I am tickled with my Rebel, but I wish Canon would do the right
thing and let us use the product to its full abilities.

BLUTO loves his Rebel and would buy another one if this one broke.

 

[Sherwood M.]

Why don't you buy the camera from a reputable camera shop
with a liberal return policy and give the 300D or 10D a tryout rather
than guessing, wondering, and estimating what Canon or any other
camera manufacturer will be doing months from now?

If you don't like the camera after using it for a few days, just take it back.

You say that you read the manuals of both cams - then you will have a
good idea of what you are buying. Meanwhile, we users are taking pictures
and enjoying this camera. In 2 years, who knows what will be available?

I used to do what you're doing now... But you won't know until you
actually use** the camera (300d) and see what it can do. I'm
glad that I didn't go for the 10D because I saved some good money
and I know that I'll get a better camera body in a couple years. For now,
the 300D is far better than any other Prosumer digi-cam i've used, and
is worth every penny.

Sherwood.
====================

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

 

[Dave Lewis]

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So now why in the world would Canon want to destroy their 10D sales by upgrading the Rebel D. Can you imagine how folks who have a 10 D would feel if suddenly Canon let Rebel D owners create an equal camera with a little firmware update. I think there it absolutely no possibility in the world that Canon would make such a blunder. They will not change the firmware even one tiny bit unless there appears to be a problem that needs to be corrected, which would surely have come along before this.
--
Dave Lewis

 

[Paul McHale]

I have no problem with them not enabling extra features. The problem I have is with them not fixing the features they advertised. If the white balance or exposure or Auto mode can be fixed, it should be fixed because those were selling points for the camera.

The attitude of they won't if they don't have to is old. Olympus had over sharpening in the C2500. A lady named Elaine Pawelko (sp?) started a separate forum which mobilized a lot of users. We breathed down their neck until they finally offered a firmware upgrade. I think it was $50 to cover their cost. You ship it to them and they ship it back.

Why is this in their best interest? Numerous people here are commenting they are holding off on purchasing more Canon stuff because they don't want to be more obligated to a camera and company they are not entirely pleased with. Their complaints were about not living up to the standards of mid range P&S cameras.

The P&S audience is huge. The rebel was aimed squarely at them and not deidcated SLR junkies. Just watch the comercials. This volume and increased demand offered an obviously lower price point. SLR junkies benefit from the P&S crowd. That seems to be an emotional point for some. With a camera that has the potential of the rebel, a P&S person may become the industry prized SLR junky.

As a card carrying member of the P&S audience, I tolerate broken things as long as they get fixed. Tell me something is broke and it's my fault for buying it ... To use the car analogy. If they mount the stearing wheel facing the rear of the car, don't tell me about the wonderous rear view mirror. Fix the stearing wheel.

The SLR scam is amazing. Sell them equipment with short comings and watch them blame themselves and each other. I've never seen an market that tolerated this. People actually write, "If this one is faulty, upgrade when the new one comes out". I think the 300D is impressive, but can't it be improved to meet it's marketing hype ?

As a side note. Local camera stores can't even get the rebel in. They have a ridiculously small alotment. It's a popular camera, so they sell. Is this normal for camera companies to limit production like this? Why would they pass up sales? Are they afraid of getting stuck with product when new models come out?

Thanks for listening to a probable SLR junkie wanna be.

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

 

[codec]

the dilemma is, when it comes to electronic equipment...usually the higher quality the heavier

for all the features of the 10D in a body as light as that of the
Rebel. I have held off getting a dslr because of weight issues.
The weight is more of an issue than the cost of the equipment. Of
course it is nice to pay less...but a light system...including
lightweight lenses would make the whole dslr experience much more
attractive to me.
I can't forget carrying two Nikkormat bodies, three lenses and a
flash and how much that combo weighed!
Every now and then I take out my Nikkormats and wonder how I ever
did it!
Isabel

http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/
pBase supporter

 

[codec]

rational logic though, save some $ on the body and put it on a real nice lens...many of us go that way. In the long run, body cost's just a portion of the $ dumped on diff sorts of lenses+accessories.

If you don't like the camera after using it for a few days, just
take it back.

You say that you read the manuals of both cams - then you will have a
good idea of what you are buying. Meanwhile, we users are taking
pictures
and enjoying this camera. In 2 years, who knows what will be
available?

I used to do what you're doing now... But you won't know until you
actually use** the camera (300d) and see what it can do. I'm
glad that I didn't go for the 10D because I saved some good money
and I know that I'll get a better camera body in a couple years.
For now,
the 300D is far better than any other Prosumer digi-cam i've used, and
is worth every penny.

Sherwood.
====================

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

 

[Steve47316]

One exception. The Minolta Dimage 7 was esentially transformed into a 7i with a $40 firmware upgrade!

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

--
Canon 300D, Minolta F100

 

[codec]

so what's story behind that deal?

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

--
Canon 300D, Minolta F100

 

[Glenn Anderson]

Canon will NOT add new features through firmware updates. Why
should they? In about 18 months they will produce a new Digital
Rebel (DR II or 310D, etc) that will have some additional features,
and if an existing DRebel pwner wants those features you will need
to buy the new model. I have said this before - I can't think of a
single instance where an electronics mfgr has provided significant
new features through a firmware upgrade - irregardless of whether
it was technically possible to do so. It is not in their best
interest - there is much more to gain by producing a new model. It
allows them to advertise a new model, attract new buyers with the
new features, and sell an upgrade to existing customers.

Your are wrong about mfgr's not enhancing their products...

I had an Olympus E-10, and in about 6 months, they brought a firmware update that added some features, enhanced a few. The costs was basically free, $25 - as it required a visit to a Olympus service depot.

Minolta also did a major firmware upgrade to their Dimage 7, which added a lot of the software features that their new 7i had. I think it cost $70 for it.

Nikon released a firmware for the D-100, which added the feature of being able to deal with faster cards, Mac OS X compatibility, etc. The cost was free (although you had to take it to a service depot).

Quite a number of vendors (including Canon) have released firmware for their point and shoot camera that enhanced the way they worked. All free. If it's doable for cheap cameras, it certainly should be doable for expensive camera.

By the way, quite a number of other electonics similar to cameras quite often have firmware / software updates, provided basically free of charge. Apple's iPod, Printers, scanners, video card, computer components, all typically have firmware updates adding features. Recently, I had to apply a firmware to a motherboard so that my friend could run Windows XP on it, it also gave him the ability to boot from CD, connect larger drives, and a list of other things. Cost $0...

----------------

As to the Rebel... I think it makes a lot of sense to keep enhancing the camera's features/abilities as much as possible.

First of all, firmware updates are largely free. The only cost is the cost to develop the new firmware, which by the sounds of it may have already been largely done (10D). Also some items, likely wouldn't that that much to do, such as a new white balance option.

Secondly, it's very good PR. It keeps your customers happy, they are more likely to buy again from you, etc. It may also help with new sales down the road. If Canon doesn't fix it, then they may get the reputation for creating "cheap, stripped down digital cameras", which can really hurt them as other manufactures bring out camera to compete. Right now, as they are the only ones that make a camera in this range, they can do what they please, but if they don't watch out, they may really hurt themselves down the road.

Put it this way, which brand would you buy... one that has a good track record of enhancing, and keeping current the camera you bought, or a company that doesn't do any after sales updating. Or put it this way... how many people would purchase a computer, that they knew that the manufacturer would never provide them with new firmware/software for? Knew that they couldn't move to a new OS, run new software, etc.

Thirdly, from a profit point of view, releasing and charging a moderate amount for a firmware update may make a lot of sense. Think... $50 profit x number of rebels out there now... that is a lot of profit.

Fourthly, it may keep your competion at bay... Nikon (and others I am sure) are rapidly trying to bring their version of a rebel out. If Canon, kept upgrading the Rebel, they are creating a moving target. By enhancing the Rebel now, they maybe able to set back the introduction of other competive cameras by a couple of months.

Finally, the longer they can keep the current model current, they save on retooling, R & D, etc. The cost of bringing a new model out and to market isn't cheap.

 

[codec]

better put it this way:

considerting the 300D's actually 'crippled version' of the 10D, thus it's not anything as you guy put as 'enhancing', it's more appropriate to put as 'less crippling'.

Canon will NOT add new features through firmware updates. Why
should they? In about 18 months they will produce a new Digital
Rebel (DR II or 310D, etc) that will have some additional features,
and if an existing DRebel pwner wants those features you will need
to buy the new model. I have said this before - I can't think of a
single instance where an electronics mfgr has provided significant
new features through a firmware upgrade - irregardless of whether
it was technically possible to do so. It is not in their best
interest - there is much more to gain by producing a new model. It
allows them to advertise a new model, attract new buyers with the
new features, and sell an upgrade to existing customers.

Your are wrong about mfgr's not enhancing their products...

I had an Olympus E-10, and in about 6 months, they brought a
firmware update that added some features, enhanced a few. The costs
was basically free, $25 - as it required a visit to a Olympus
service depot.

Minolta also did a major firmware upgrade to their Dimage 7, which
added a lot of the software features that their new 7i had. I think
it cost $70 for it.

Nikon released a firmware for the D-100, which added the feature of
being able to deal with faster cards, Mac OS X compatibility, etc.
The cost was free (although you had to take it to a service depot).

Quite a number of vendors (including Canon) have released firmware
for their point and shoot camera that enhanced the way they worked.
All free. If it's doable for cheap cameras, it certainly should be
doable for expensive camera.

By the way, quite a number of other electonics similar to cameras
quite often have firmware / software updates, provided basically
free of charge. Apple's iPod, Printers, scanners, video card,
computer components, all typically have firmware updates adding
features. Recently, I had to apply a firmware to a motherboard so
that my friend could run Windows XP on it, it also gave him the
ability to boot from CD, connect larger drives, and a list of other
things. Cost $0...

----------------

As to the Rebel... I think it makes a lot of sense to keep
enhancing the camera's features/abilities as much as possible.

First of all, firmware updates are largely free. The only cost is
the cost to develop the new firmware, which by the sounds of it may
have already been largely done (10D). Also some items, likely
wouldn't that that much to do, such as a new white balance option.

Secondly, it's very good PR. It keeps your customers happy, they
are more likely to buy again from you, etc. It may also help with
new sales down the road. If Canon doesn't fix it, then they may get
the reputation for creating "cheap, stripped down digital cameras",
which can really hurt them as other manufactures bring out camera
to compete. Right now, as they are the only ones that make a camera
in this range, they can do what they please, but if they don't
watch out, they may really hurt themselves down the road.
Put it this way, which brand would you buy... one that has a good
track record of enhancing, and keeping current the camera you
bought, or a company that doesn't do any after sales updating. Or
put it this way... how many people would purchase a computer, that
they knew that the manufacturer would never provide them with new
firmware/software for? Knew that they couldn't move to a new OS,
run new software, etc.

Thirdly, from a profit point of view, releasing and charging a
moderate amount for a firmware update may make a lot of sense.
Think... $50 profit x number of rebels out there now... that is a
lot of profit.

Fourthly, it may keep your competion at bay... Nikon (and others I
am sure) are rapidly trying to bring their version of a rebel out.
If Canon, kept upgrading the Rebel, they are creating a moving
target. By enhancing the Rebel now, they maybe able to set back the
introduction of other competive cameras by a couple of months.

Finally, the longer they can keep the current model current, they
save on retooling, R & D, etc. The cost of bringing a new model out
and to market isn't cheap.

 

[codec]

Don't ask Canon to fix your mistakes. Sell the 300D on ebay and buy
a 10D.

Secondly, every company has their own thing, thats what makes
cameras different. If you aren't happy with the Canon way, go get a
Nikon or Fuji. Oh thats right, Canon is the best (at this second in
my humble opinion). So tough wait for something else. Patience
people.

??? Grow up people.
Andrew

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

 

[Blue60407]

If you don't like the camera after using it for a few days, just
take it back.

You say that you read the manuals of both cams - then you will have a
good idea of what you are buying. Meanwhile, we users are taking
pictures
and enjoying this camera. In 2 years, who knows what will be
available?

I used to do what you're doing now... But you won't know until you
actually use** the camera (300d) and see what it can do. I'm
glad that I didn't go for the 10D because I saved some good money
and I know that I'll get a better camera body in a couple years.
For now,
the 300D is far better than any other Prosumer digi-cam i've used, and
is worth every penny.

Sherwood.
====================

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

--
Blue
http://www.pbase.com/image/7450272

 

[codec]

fixing is the better word rather than upgrading, improvment, enhancing etc...if Canon should look back on the 300D and remove some cripplings after Nikon's D70 or other manufacture's competing models.

The tongue like "here's what i have to offer, there's nothing i can do with it, like it or drop it" is old too. If you cannot, there are someone who can and would love to do it to get the market by being willing to satisfy the vast majority of consumers out there

The attitude of they won't if they don't have to is old. Olympus
had over sharpening in the C2500. A lady named Elaine Pawelko
(sp?) started a separate forum which mobilized a lot of users. We
breathed down their neck until they finally offered a firmware
upgrade. I think it was $50 to cover their cost. You ship it to
them and they ship it back.

Why is this in their best interest? Numerous people here are
commenting they are holding off on purchasing more Canon stuff
because they don't want to be more obligated to a camera and
company they are not entirely pleased with. Their complaints were
about not living up to the standards of mid range P&S cameras.

The P&S audience is huge. The rebel was aimed squarely at them and
not deidcated SLR junkies. Just watch the comercials. This volume
and increased demand offered an obviously lower price point. SLR
junkies benefit from the P&S crowd. That seems to be an emotional
point for some. With a camera that has the potential of the rebel,
a P&S person may become the industry prized SLR junky.

As a card carrying member of the P&S audience, I tolerate broken
things as long as they get fixed. Tell me something is broke and
it's my fault for buying it ... To use the car analogy. If they
mount the stearing wheel facing the rear of the car, don't tell me
about the wonderous rear view mirror. Fix the stearing wheel.

The SLR scam is amazing. Sell them equipment with short comings
and watch them blame themselves and each other. I've never seen an
market that tolerated this. People actually write, "If this one is
faulty, upgrade when the new one comes out". I think the 300D is
impressive, but can't it be improved to meet it's marketing hype ?

As a side note. Local camera stores can't even get the rebel in.
They have a ridiculously small alotment. It's a popular camera, so
they sell. Is this normal for camera companies to limit production
like this? Why would they pass up sales? Are they afraid of
getting stuck with product when new models come out?

Thanks for listening to a probable SLR junkie wanna be.

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

 

[Homl]

Canon offer us way more than expected at this time. They took the guts of one the best DSLR on the market and give it to you at an unbelievable price and you are complaining!?!?!

Where is the competition? They are napping. They are nowhere to be seen. Where are the DSLRs with high quality image and blazing speed for under $1000 including a good lens? There is only one.

You statement is only true if there is other DSLR that provide you the same features for under $1000 and with a good lens. You want more features, there are tons of DSLR with all the features you want. Spend the bucks and get something else instead of complaining. Not things in life is for free. At this time the DRebel is the best bang for the buck. It has the important features that most people want, thats what counts.

The tongue like "here's what i have to offer, there's nothing i can
do with it, like it or drop it" is old too. If you cannot, there
are someone who can and would love to do it to get the market by
being willing to satisfy the vast majority of consumers out there

The attitude of they won't if they don't have to is old. Olympus
had over sharpening in the C2500. A lady named Elaine Pawelko
(sp?) started a separate forum which mobilized a lot of users. We
breathed down their neck until they finally offered a firmware
upgrade. I think it was $50 to cover their cost. You ship it to
them and they ship it back.

Why is this in their best interest? Numerous people here are
commenting they are holding off on purchasing more Canon stuff
because they don't want to be more obligated to a camera and
company they are not entirely pleased with. Their complaints were
about not living up to the standards of mid range P&S cameras.

The P&S audience is huge. The rebel was aimed squarely at them and
not deidcated SLR junkies. Just watch the comercials. This volume
and increased demand offered an obviously lower price point. SLR
junkies benefit from the P&S crowd. That seems to be an emotional
point for some. With a camera that has the potential of the rebel,
a P&S person may become the industry prized SLR junky.

As a card carrying member of the P&S audience, I tolerate broken
things as long as they get fixed. Tell me something is broke and
it's my fault for buying it ... To use the car analogy. If they
mount the stearing wheel facing the rear of the car, don't tell me
about the wonderous rear view mirror. Fix the stearing wheel.

The SLR scam is amazing. Sell them equipment with short comings
and watch them blame themselves and each other. I've never seen an
market that tolerated this. People actually write, "If this one is
faulty, upgrade when the new one comes out". I think the 300D is
impressive, but can't it be improved to meet it's marketing hype ?

As a side note. Local camera stores can't even get the rebel in.
They have a ridiculously small alotment. It's a popular camera, so
they sell. Is this normal for camera companies to limit production
like this? Why would they pass up sales? Are they afraid of
getting stuck with product when new models come out?

Thanks for listening to a probable SLR junkie wanna be.

hi,

i'm looking at the 300D for quite some time and kind of comparing
it with the 10D and Nikon D100. I've also read both 300D and 10D
manuals, reviews, online forum discussions on these makers/models
and seen quite some people complaining about the lack of manual
control flexibilites on the 300D model (and even on the 10D for
some features), majority of those lies on the metering,
flash-assist focusing, FEC, lack of custermized preset exposure
settings, etc.

My humble opinion on this:
most of the lacks of controls is due to the firmware limitation.
personally i don't think there's much difference on the hardware
side between the 300D and 10D (plastic vs magnalium body would be
one but this doesn't bother me much). IF canon were willing to, or,
as the price race heats up (in this case, Canon's going to be
forced to), upgrade the 300D firmware, the 300D would be able to
get as much as the 10D gets, except for hardware side such as the
body material.

Question is: Is Canon going to do this on the 300D and allow
existing owners to upgrade the firmware free of charge? A little
firmware improvement sounds likely, huge leap? I really doubt about
this, more likely, Canon will release new models to keep pace with
the price race and technology advancement even sometime it's not
necessary to do so (a little change on the firmware may bring big
improvement on features/controls). I bet you will see this from
Canon for the 1st step as the answer to Nikon's D70 release. But my
guess this is something we'll have to wait till the end of 2004.

So what's gonna be left for us is, keep dumping $$ for its (not
just Canon) new models if you don't feel happy with the one you
have.

 

[codec]

at this moment, true that there's only 300D offerred by Canon for an sub 1000 dslr sector...but believe me, this won't last long, just couple of months...first comes the D70, then Fuji and others will get their hands on.

let's take a look at the D70 according to Nikon's announcement: $999 w/o kit lens...one might be guessing, this doesn't sound to be a strong opponent against the 300D, there must be SOMETHING there that the 300D doesn't have, what that might be? magnalium body? someone cares. less crippling of Nikon's higher models, saying D100? yeah, way to go!

hope Nikon's reading this.

Canon offer us way more than expected at this time. They took the
guts of one the best DSLR on the market and give it to you at an
unbelievable price and you are complaining!?!?!
Where is the competition? They are napping. They are nowhere to be
seen. Where are the DSLRs with high quality image and blazing speed
for under $1000 including a good lens? There is only one.
You statement is only true if there is other DSLR that provide you
the same features for under $1000 and with a good lens. You want
more features, there are tons of DSLR with all the features you
want. Spend the bucks and get something else instead of
complaining. Not things in life is for free. At this time the
DRebel is the best bang for the buck. It has the important features
that most people want, thats what counts.

 

[Homl]

You are absolutely correct. There is alway something newer, better and cheaper. You can't stop progress.

I got the DRebel 4 month ago. Logged 4000 wonderful shots of kids growing up. Time doesn't stop. Make the best of it. The DRebel helps. Think of the possible opportunities lost if I waited.

hope Nikon's reading this.

Canon offer us way more than expected at this time. They took the
guts of one the best DSLR on the market and give it to you at an
unbelievable price and you are complaining!?!?!
Where is the competition? They are napping. They are nowhere to be
seen. Where are the DSLRs with high quality image and blazing speed
for under $1000 including a good lens? There is only one.
You statement is only true if there is other DSLR that provide you
the same features for under $1000 and with a good lens. You want
more features, there are tons of DSLR with all the features you
want. Spend the bucks and get something else instead of
complaining. Not things in life is for free. At this time the
DRebel is the best bang for the buck. It has the important features
that most people want, thats what counts.

 

[codec]

exactly!...especially electronics arena. bought my DELL couple of years ago, it was considered 'advanced' at that time...now it isnt worth a dime

perfect time to buy? no such a thing, just need a comfortable time and comfortable price to jump in...

hope Nikon's reading this.

Canon offer us way more than expected at this time. They took the
guts of one the best DSLR on the market and give it to you at an
unbelievable price and you are complaining!?!?!
Where is the competition? They are napping. They are nowhere to be
seen. Where are the DSLRs with high quality image and blazing speed
for under $1000 including a good lens? There is only one.
You statement is only true if there is other DSLR that provide you
the same features for under $1000 and with a good lens. You want
more features, there are tons of DSLR with all the features you
want. Spend the bucks and get something else instead of
complaining. Not things in life is for free. At this time the
DRebel is the best bang for the buck. It has the important features
that most people want, thats what counts.