Low Light, Indoor shots will be the death of me....

[creosote77]

I really could use some help from some experienced 300D users. We've had the 300D about 2 weeks now and I'm trying to help my wife convert to digital photography. With two children under 3 yrs old in the house, we end up taking about 90% of out shots indoors with low light. My wife simply hates using the flash and we are struggling with the results so far.

We are seriously considering a 50mm f1.8 lens to use for these indoor shots, but have been unable to find one yet. Besides gettings a new lens I would really appreciate any tips you have on camera settings to improve the quality of our shots. Please feel free to include the shutter speed, aperature, ISO, exposure compensation, etc...

Any advice or hints would be greatly appreciated. My wife is disappointed so far but I keep telling her that we need time to learn the camera and all its features.

thank you,

 

[Dan Merz]

the 50mm 1.8 is a must for this, until you get one, use a flash or get used to bad photos

I really could use some help from some experienced 300D users.
We've had the 300D about 2 weeks now and I'm trying to help my wife
convert to digital photography. With two children under 3 yrs old
in the house, we end up taking about 90% of out shots indoors with
low light. My wife simply hates using the flash and we are
struggling with the results so far.
We are seriously considering a 50mm f1.8 lens to use for these
indoor shots, but have been unable to find one yet. Besides
gettings a new lens I would really appreciate any tips you have on
camera settings to improve the quality of our shots. Please feel
free to include the shutter speed, aperature, ISO, exposure
compensation, etc...
Any advice or hints would be greatly appreciated. My wife is
disappointed so far but I keep telling her that we need time to
learn the camera and all its features.

thank you,

--
http://www.pbase.com/dmerz

 

[Sandman]

creosote77,

First of all, welcome to the forum and congrats on your new Rebel.

Please reassure your wife that digital photography with the Rebel can be challenging but very rewarding. If this is her/your first digital camera, there is a lot to learn. Most of us are on our third, fourth, or fifth camera by now and have learned our lessons one-by-one over the span of several years. This does not mean that you bought the wrong camera, it just means your learning needs are greater. The good news is you have found a fantastic forum of capable and helpful folks who are passionate about their photography and enjoy assisting others reach their potential. You will get there.

In additon to the forum, get the Shortcourses Book by Dennis Curtain.
http://www.shortcourses.com/bookstore/canon/book_canonrebel.htm

This book will give you a quick review of the fundamentals of photography and cover each feature of the Rebel in a manner that is not covered clearly in the manual. The book is not expensive and is more of a workbook than a textbook. Get it! And when you have questions that are not addressed in the book, you have the forum to back you up.

Next, get a site on the internet to post your images. Preferably get a site that permits external linking of image files. The primary purpose of this is so you can upload your images so others can see exactly what you are doing. It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words. This is a gross understatement when we are trying to troubleshoot a specific concern you have. Simply upload one of your images and let us have a look.

Also check out this link to some great information about how to get great photos from your Rebel sponsored by the folks at Canon:
http://www.photoworkshop.com/canon/lessons_1-5.html

And we have a FAQ put together by Marius that contains many of the pearls learned by Rebel users that are very helpful:
http://www.marius.org/fom-serve/cache/3.html

And to specifically answer your question, increase the ISO to 800 for low light shooting. Make sure you have decent ambient lighting. Put the camera in Av mode and select one of the faster aperture settings to permit the most light to enter the camera (a smaller aperture number). The camera will automatically return a shutter speed to get a correct exposure. The faster the shutter speed, the more you will be able to get a sharp image by reducing the camera shake caused by holding the camera and pressing the shutter. Make sure you get a focus lock (little green dot) by pressing the shutter half way, then finish taking your shot by GENTLY pressing the shutter all the way down. This should get you started. As you get better with these ambient light shots, you may try to reduce the ISO to 400 or 200, try smaller apertures (higher numbers) and note the difference this makes in your shots.

Again, welcome. Let us know how we can help.

Cheers,

jim

--
Shoot more, ***** less!
galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/sandman3

 

[creosote77]

Thanks Sandman for your information and helpful ideas. This is our 4th digicam so we've had some time to get used to them. The 300D however is the nicest of them all and my wife's expectations may have been set a little too high... We will try the settings you suggested and see if that helps. It sounds like the 50mm f1.8 is really a necessity when it comes to indoor shots. Hopefully I can get one as soon as B&H gets them back in stock.

 

[Sandman]

creosote77,

You are most welcome. Glad to hear you have owned previous digicams. The Rebel is not the best "point & shoot" camera and experienced users have a better time coping with limited depth of field and camera shake issues. Not to mention all the skills releated to the computer side of digital photography.

Yes, the 50mm is a great lens. But also be prepared to deal with a very shallow depth of field. For example, wide open and five feet from your subject, the area of sharp focus is 2 inches! For some of us this means our nose is in focus but our ears are not! LOL!

But even with the narrow DOF issue, this is a must lens to have. It has many uses and beautiful bokeh, all at a bargain basement price. Yes it has recently become hard to get. The word is out. Great lens.

Best of luck,

jim

--
Shoot more, ***** less!
galleries at: http://www.pbase.com/sandman3

 

[José Luís Malaquias]

Definitely get the 50 mm. I wish I could have one as cheap as you get them in the US:

Also, try using a tripod. I know it breaks the spontaneity, but it improves your pictures in low light a lot.

ISO 400-800 is the range to go, and if you absolutely must, then go for the 1600 but get NeatImage.

Turn on as many lights in the room as you possibly can. Diffused lights are the best. Be sure to watch out for the white balance, though.

Shoot RAW and perform some exposure compensation during conversion. Try to get a histogram that looks as much as possible like a bell curve spanning the whole histogram. You can tweak exposure, shadows and contrast to achieve that.

Consider an external flash that you can point to the ceiling, instead of to your subject.

Thanks Sandman for your information and helpful ideas. This is
our 4th digicam so we've had some time to get used to them. The
300D however is the nicest of them all and my wife's expectations
may have been set a little too high... We will try the settings you
suggested and see if that helps. It sounds like the 50mm f1.8 is
really a necessity when it comes to indoor shots. Hopefully I can
get one as soon as B&H gets them back in stock.

--
http://www.malaquias.net/en/joseluis/

 

[Greg M]

Don't be afraid to use high ISO. Someone mentioned NI for noise reduction but I'd try Noise Ninja. It is easier to use, faster and the results are simular.

Try and get your wife over the idea that the flash is bad. If you get a good external flash then the pictures look much much much better then the pop-up flash. I'd recommend spending the extra $$$ and getting a 550EX. It takes some getting use to but it is Canon's best flash and has the power that you'll need if you are across the room. I bounce mine and the pictures look great. I point the flash straight up and then extend the reflector that's built-in.

I've got the 50 1.4 and it's a great lens. First I would consider trying the higher ISO before buying another lens. Consider this order:

1 - 550EX
2 - A longer zoom
3 - 50 1.8

Of coarse what you buy all depends on how much money you want to spend. I've got a site that has many links to very good information on the web. It's the DSLR link below.

--
Greg M
http://www.mocanu.com/gallery/index.php
http://dslr.mocanu.com

 

[Lamont E. Earles]

Hi all this is one of my first pictures with my new D Rebel and yes it was done in doors and using the 18-55mm lens I hope you like it. Have fun ...............Lamont :> )

http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=10136

 

[Craig Gillette]

I really could use some help from some experienced 300D users.
We've had the 300D about 2 weeks now and I'm trying to help my wife
convert to digital photography. With two children under 3 yrs old
in the house, we end up taking about 90% of out shots indoors with
low light. My wife simply hates using the flash and we are
struggling with the results so far.
We are seriously considering a 50mm f1.8 lens to use for these
indoor shots, but have been unable to find one yet. Besides
gettings a new lens I would really appreciate any tips you have on
camera settings to improve the quality of our shots. Please feel
free to include the shutter speed, aperature, ISO, exposure
compensation, etc...
Any advice or hints would be greatly appreciated. My wife is
disappointed so far but I keep telling her that we need time to
learn the camera and all its features.

thank you,

The 50mm 1.8 will give perspective almost exactly the same as the kit lens at 55mm. If you need to zoom in from that to cover your interior, the 50mm may be disappointing, all it's other qualities aside!

 

[Cuspides]

Definitly the EOS 300d Is the camera for the job. Very sensitive CMOS, and you can use 1600 or 800 Isos to get picture with low light and no flash.

Some example:

Efs lens 55mm 5.6 1/20s: (kit lens)

Original:
http://cuspides.free.fr/photos/noel/155_5556%20 (Medium).JPG

Light correction on curves:
http://cuspides.free.fr/photos/noel/155_5556bis%20 (Medium).jpg

NI treatment to get rid of the noise...:
http://cuspides.free.fr/photos/noel/155_5556bis_filtered%20 (Medium).jpg

Canon 100mm 2.8:

http://cuspides.free.fr/photos/noel/155_5588%20 (Medium).JPG

http://cuspides.free.fr/photos/noel/156_5606_filtered%20 (Medium).jpg

You need :

A fast lens
A place to place the camera (hand shakes!!!)
1600 Isos
and a little training

 

[lasm]

Don't be afraid to use the flash in low light situations..

All you need to know is understand the camera's metering.. The eyes of the camera, or its meter, is actually color blind !! All it can do is expose for 18% grey... so if you have a scene with 18% grey, point the AF at it, and you will get a correctly exposed pic. If you don't have it, read up Adam Ansel's zone system and then compensate for it in manual mode..

Someone actually don't believe the 18% grey theory makes all the difference, and had to try it out... look here..

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=7060441

But there is nothing like some initial success to spur you on, isn't it ? Try to don a grey sweater and turn on the flash !!

I really could use some help from some experienced 300D users.
We've had the 300D about 2 weeks now and I'm trying to help my wife
convert to digital photography. With two children under 3 yrs old
in the house, we end up taking about 90% of out shots indoors with
low light. My wife simply hates using the flash and we are
struggling with the results so far.
We are seriously considering a 50mm f1.8 lens to use for these
indoor shots, but have been unable to find one yet. Besides
gettings a new lens I would really appreciate any tips you have on
camera settings to improve the quality of our shots. Please feel
free to include the shutter speed, aperature, ISO, exposure
compensation, etc...
Any advice or hints would be greatly appreciated. My wife is
disappointed so far but I keep telling her that we need time to
learn the camera and all its features.

thank you,

--
http://gallery29564.fotopic.net/

 

[Joao Roberto]

I had almost the same problem. My wife was trying to use my DR indoors with flash and auto mode (she is an accasional shooter), and shot after shot came very underexposed. I tryed to explain about FEL and some other ways to get the right pictures, but she think that is too tricky for a human.

She kept me asking why ,with my old (and very affordable) Olympus, she was always able to take great indoors shots and with this very expensive (in her mind) piece of equipment she doesn't.

Well, to make a long story short, I give up and bought one Canon Powershot A70 for her and now she is very happy. Shot after shot well exposed in auto mode all the time. All those noisy pictures from A70 doesn't bother her. Good for her.

IMO, DR is not a camera for accasional shooter. Every time I lend my camera to someone without DR background, the results will be a lottery. It's simple too tricky. And no matter for how long you discourse about the advantages, they just wants an average picture with a lightweight and easy to take camera.

I know that this is not the kind of experience some people here like to hear, because it's not a highlight of the great DR qualities, but I had to tell.

Regards

JRGandara

English is not my native language
http://www.pbase.com/jrgandara/root

 

[Standa]

Maybe you should use Flash Exposure Compensation at DReb... It is possible to set it programmatically from your computer; +2/3 FEC is widely used.

I had almost the same problem. My wife was trying to use my DR
indoors with flash and auto mode (she is an accasional shooter),
and shot after shot came very underexposed. I tryed to explain
about FEL and some other ways to get the right pictures, but she
think that is too tricky for a human.

She kept me asking why ,with my old (and very affordable) Olympus,
she was always able to take great indoors shots and with this very
expensive (in her mind) piece of equipment she doesn't.

Well, to make a long story short, I give up and bought one Canon
Powershot A70 for her and now she is very happy. Shot after shot
well exposed in auto mode all the time. All those noisy pictures
from A70 doesn't bother her. Good for her.

IMO, DR is not a camera for accasional shooter. Every time I lend
my camera to someone without DR background, the results will be a
lottery. It's simple too tricky. And no matter for how long you
discourse about the advantages, they just wants an average picture
with a lightweight and easy to take camera.

I know that this is not the kind of experience some people here
like to hear, because it's not a highlight of the great DR
qualities, but I had to tell.

Regards

JRGandara

English is not my native language
http://www.pbase.com/jrgandara/root

 

[Oliver Olsen]

I really could use some help from some experienced 300D users.
We've had the 300D about 2 weeks now and I'm trying to help my wife
convert to digital photography. With two children under 3 yrs old
in the house, we end up taking about 90% of out shots indoors with
low light. My wife simply hates using the flash and we are
struggling with the results so far.

It sounds like you're using the onboard flash only. Like most cameras, the onboard is most useful for fill-in flash outdoors as it is often difficult to control properly. I'm always using a flash indoors, mostly Canon 380EX (and some other more "obscure" flash-guns in manual mode). Using the 380EX bounced to the ceiling or with OmniBouncer, I feel that the use of flash is controlled, not giving me the harsh flash I assume your wife hates.

If you don't want to get an external flash, increase the ISO to 800 and try experimenting with the camera in AV-mode (or manual). If you use eg Auto or P, the shutterspeed is mostly set to 1/60s, which barely gives you any ambient light in most situations. Using AV-mode you will get the correct exposure w/o flash (often 1/10-1/50s indoors with f/4.5 @ ISO 800). Adding the flash in this situation will mostly "even out" the light across the picture (like brighten some underexposed areas) and will not give you "point'n shoot" flash with white faces and a black background.

That being said, don't try using the onboard flash if your subject is too close (my experience only). Works best from 2-3 feet and beyond IMHO.

Otherwise you should definitely try a real flashgun bounced to the ceiling. You might even get a dirt-cheap manual flash for experimenting (just make sure it doesn't have high-voltage output in the flash-shoe, like some older Vivitar and Metz-guns).

We are seriously considering a 50mm f1.8 lens to use for these
indoor shots, but have been unable to find one yet. Besides
gettings a new lens I would really appreciate any tips you have on
camera settings to improve the quality of our shots. Please feel
free to include the shutter speed, aperature, ISO, exposure
compensation, etc...

The 50/1.8 is great at the price, but I hardly use it wide open. At f/2.8-4.0 it's far more useful as you will get more of the subject in focus, but it depends on the distance to subject and your style, naturally...

Any advice or hints would be greatly appreciated. My wife is
disappointed so far but I keep telling her that we need time to
learn the camera and all its features.

Try experimenting as suggested, and I'm sure you will get excellent pictures, even with only the kit-lens and onboard flash

• O.

 

[creosote77]

We have a lot of suggestions now we can try to improve the quality of the indoor shots. We have been through several point and shoot cams and we definitely wanted something more powerful like the DR. My wife has done a good bit of SLR shooting and darkroom developing so it's a little hard for her to grasp the whole digital concept and advantages. She also has a small business where she takes pictures of families and children (mostly outdoors) and would like to start using the DR to take those pics.

I am also learning a good bit by reading for hours in these forums and other resources on the web. We realize that alot can be accomplished in post edit processing and I can do the basic corrections in Photoshop. However, we don't want to have to post process every single shot.

One person mentioned "don't be affraid of the flash". I agree that we don't mind using the built in flash if it works properly. It sounds the like the 550 external flash (or other similar brands) will work well if you want to dish out the money. I have adjusted the FEC with the hack tool and will experiment more today at higher ISO settings (800-1600). Hopefully soon we will get a F1.8 lens that can do a little better indoors.

thanks for all your help...