sorry to bring up focus again, but...

[matt chase]

I have actually had this problem a few times in the past few months, but hoped that it was just the situation (ie bad lighting, subject, etc). However, in daylight (albiet dusk), once again my camera would not focus when held in a vertical composition. It did this once before in bright sunny light as well. In both instances, I was photographing a headshot of a person, and had the focus circle on their face (bad focus), chest (bad focus), collar (bad focus), hair (bad focus), etc. In both cases, I also shot many horizontal shots, from the same approx. distance and same approx. focal length, with absolutely no focus problems. The fact that both times I was in daylight, and both times I had no problems with horizontal compositions, I wonder if my camera has a bad or malfunctioning sensor in it. The odd thing is / and the reason I haven't said anything before is that in other times I have done verticals with no problems at all.

As a technical note, I don't think I turned off IR focusing either time. I know I didn't on the last occurance, as I was limited on time and was just trying to get the shot over and done with. But the other times I don't remember, they were too long ago. Either way, shouldn't the focus be working a little better than this in a vertical composition?

The camera is otherwise perfect. No stuck pixels. Only 1 light gray hot pixel at 8 seconds exposure time. Colors are good. Exposures are good. I really don't want to send it in and risk these other problems unless I really have to.

Just fishing for opinions...Thanks.

 

[Ger Bee]

The E10 will, ordinarily, have more difficulty with vertical focusing - it sensors are basic parallel lines (in the case of the digital this is two {or more} rows of pixels) which come into play in its contrast detection mode and the mode that does the final focusing (or should according to the specs). Ergo it is hoping to find something dissecting these focusing pixels at right angles for maximum separation (given that any separation can exist) and in nature this is very convenient when the camera is used in landscape mode and people, animal, tress and flowers all cut the horizontal and affording accurate focus detection.

When the camera is turned in portrait mode the sensors are very much less accurate by default – the E10 lacks any advanced detection systems like crosshairs, multi spot systems, predictive or servo assistance. Despite this the system’s IR detection should be fairly immune to such distractions and I do not have, or noticed any more difficulty in shooting vertically than horizontally.

My sample seems to give me bad focus for a few shots like a bad demon or pixie and then work fine and in all conditions – amazing. One theory, among many that I have, for this is battery level. A daylight shoot of a chemical factory, plenty of verticals and horizontals, bright sunshine and perfect focus – just snap – the way only the E10 can. But a quick review showed OoF – unbelievable – not possible – I definitely had perfect focus – I shot again and sure enough and in contravention of all the other focusing anomalies the middle three pictures were OoF. Later that day I got the low battery warning.

I have in fact stumbled across this before but have been unable to prove it – my theory now is two pronged: A: the battery is getting a little low and the OoF is the real low battery warning. B: the lowish battery has a power drain internally as the camera powers up or writes to disk or something and the focus information, which had been correctly read by the camera prior to firing (it looks focused in the viewfinder) is actually not sent to the lens at the time of firing – even thought the lens would have been accurately focused the E10 relies on actual information from its processors to drive focus motors to co-ordinates determined by its computations.

This should not happen as the two fold focusing of the E10 should catch any anomaly, personally I don’t think the E10 switch to contrast detect for final focussing at all – or certainly not for every shot – it could not if one stops to thinks of it for a second.

In your use of the E10 in the coming weeks you might keep in mind the battery and if you think there is any co-relation between it and your focusing errors.

I have actually had this problem a few times in the past few
months, but hoped that it was just the situation (ie bad lighting,
subject, etc). However, in daylight (albiet dusk), once again my
camera would not focus when held in a vertical composition. It did
this once before in bright sunny light as well. In both instances,
I was photographing a headshot of a person, and had the focus
circle on their face (bad focus), chest (bad focus), collar (bad
focus), hair (bad focus), etc. In both cases, I also shot many
horizontal shots, from the same approx. distance and same approx.
focal length, with absolutely no focus problems. The fact that
both times I was in daylight, and both times I had no problems with
horizontal compositions, I wonder if my camera has a bad or
malfunctioning sensor in it. The odd thing is / and the reason I
haven't said anything before is that in other times I have done
verticals with no problems at all.

As a technical note, I don't think I turned off IR focusing either
time. I know I didn't on the last occurance, as I was limited on
time and was just trying to get the shot over and done with. But
the other times I don't remember, they were too long ago. Either
way, shouldn't the focus be working a little better than this in a
vertical composition?

The camera is otherwise perfect. No stuck pixels. Only 1 light gray
hot pixel at 8 seconds exposure time. Colors are good. Exposures
are good. I really don't want to send it in and risk these other
problems unless I really have to.

Just fishing for opinions...Thanks.

 

[Jono Slack29833]

Thanks Ger - it is useful to talk about these things. I have had very little trouble with oof, but, when I have had a problem it has always been in a 'batch' as you say. I hadn't thought about this, and certainly not about the low battery idea - but I will. Another thought which occurs to me, is that with the flash using lotsapower, perhaps the situation would then be excacerbated . . . . . . ?

Regards
Jono Slack

When the camera is turned in portrait mode the sensors are very
much less accurate by default – the E10 lacks any advanced
detection systems like crosshairs, multi spot systems, predictive
or servo assistance. Despite this the system’s IR detection
should be fairly immune to such distractions and I do not have, or
noticed any more difficulty in shooting vertically than
horizontally.

My sample seems to give me bad focus for a few shots like a bad
demon or pixie and then work fine and in all conditions –
amazing. One theory, among many that I have, for this is battery
level. A daylight shoot of a chemical factory, plenty of verticals
and horizontals, bright sunshine and perfect focus – just
snap – the way only the E10 can. But a quick review showed
OoF – unbelievable – not possible – I definitely
had perfect focus – I shot again and sure enough and in
contravention of all the other focusing anomalies the middle three
pictures were OoF. Later that day I got the low battery warning.

I have in fact stumbled across this before but have been unable to
prove it – my theory now is two pronged: A: the battery is
getting a little low and the OoF is the real low battery warning.
B: the lowish battery has a power drain internally as the camera
powers up or writes to disk or something and the focus information,
which had been correctly read by the camera prior to firing (it
looks focused in the viewfinder) is actually not sent to the lens
at the time of firing – even thought the lens would have been
accurately focused the E10 relies on actual information from its
processors to drive focus motors to co-ordinates determined by its
computations.

This should not happen as the two fold focusing of the E10 should
catch any anomaly, personally I don’t think the E10 switch to
contrast detect for final focussing at all – or certainly not
for every shot – it could not if one stops to thinks of it
for a second.

In your use of the E10 in the coming weeks you might keep in mind
the battery and if you think there is any co-relation between it
and your focusing errors.

I have actually had this problem a few times in the past few
months, but hoped that it was just the situation (ie bad lighting,
subject, etc). However, in daylight (albiet dusk), once again my
camera would not focus when held in a vertical composition. It did
this once before in bright sunny light as well. In both instances,
I was photographing a headshot of a person, and had the focus
circle on their face (bad focus), chest (bad focus), collar (bad
focus), hair (bad focus), etc. In both cases, I also shot many
horizontal shots, from the same approx. distance and same approx.
focal length, with absolutely no focus problems. The fact that
both times I was in daylight, and both times I had no problems with
horizontal compositions, I wonder if my camera has a bad or
malfunctioning sensor in it. The odd thing is / and the reason I
haven't said anything before is that in other times I have done
verticals with no problems at all.

As a technical note, I don't think I turned off IR focusing either
time. I know I didn't on the last occurance, as I was limited on
time and was just trying to get the shot over and done with. But
the other times I don't remember, they were too long ago. Either
way, shouldn't the focus be working a little better than this in a
vertical composition?

The camera is otherwise perfect. No stuck pixels. Only 1 light gray
hot pixel at 8 seconds exposure time. Colors are good. Exposures
are good. I really don't want to send it in and risk these other
problems unless I really have to.

Just fishing for opinions...Thanks.

 

[Dave B32646]

Hi Mahta

As Geer Bee says and as is pointed out in the manual the camera needs vertical lines of contrast to focus properly, so where are the vertical lines in a head shot, all I can think of is the side's of the head or face against the background and when you turn the camera through 90 degrees for portrait shots the camera now see's those lines as horizontal and is unable to use them to aquire focus, so if you come accross this situation again and you have not already tried it have a go at focusing in landscape orientation and if you aquire focus lock turn to portrait and shoot, you can use the whole body of the subject to focus on since it is at the same distance as the face (usually). Merely the limitation's of the equipment I think, at least if it will focus in this way in dificult conditions you have your answer.

Regards Dave B

I have actually had this problem a few times in the past few
months, but hoped that it was just the situation (ie bad lighting,
subject, etc). However, in daylight (albiet dusk), once again my
camera would not focus when held in a vertical composition. It did
this once before in bright sunny light as well. In both instances,
I was photographing a headshot of a person, and had the focus
circle on their face (bad focus), chest (bad focus), collar (bad
focus), hair (bad focus), etc. In both cases, I also shot many
horizontal shots, from the same approx. distance and same approx.
focal length, with absolutely no focus problems. The fact that
both times I was in daylight, and both times I had no problems with
horizontal compositions, I wonder if my camera has a bad or
malfunctioning sensor in it. The odd thing is / and the reason I
haven't said anything before is that in other times I have done
verticals with no problems at all.

As a technical note, I don't think I turned off IR focusing either
time. I know I didn't on the last occurance, as I was limited on
time and was just trying to get the shot over and done with. But
the other times I don't remember, they were too long ago. Either
way, shouldn't the focus be working a little better than this in a
vertical composition?

The camera is otherwise perfect. No stuck pixels. Only 1 light gray
hot pixel at 8 seconds exposure time. Colors are good. Exposures
are good. I really don't want to send it in and risk these other
problems unless I really have to.

Just fishing for opinions...Thanks.

 

[Robert Walker]

Mahta,

I have the same problem. I found that when shooting "portait" mode, I had to rotate the camera 180 degrees, and then it'll focus with no problem. It's awkward, but effective. The E-10, although a nice camera, does have a serious problem with focus.
Bob

I have actually had this problem a few times in the past few
months, but hoped that it was just the situation (ie bad lighting,
subject, etc). However, in daylight (albiet dusk), once again my
camera would not focus when held in a vertical composition. It did
this once before in bright sunny light as well. In both instances,
I was photographing a headshot of a person, and had the focus
circle on their face (bad focus), chest (bad focus), collar (bad
focus), hair (bad focus), etc. In both cases, I also shot many
horizontal shots, from the same approx. distance and same approx.
focal length, with absolutely no focus problems. The fact that
both times I was in daylight, and both times I had no problems with
horizontal compositions, I wonder if my camera has a bad or
malfunctioning sensor in it. The odd thing is / and the reason I
haven't said anything before is that in other times I have done
verticals with no problems at all.

As a technical note, I don't think I turned off IR focusing either
time. I know I didn't on the last occurance, as I was limited on
time and was just trying to get the shot over and done with. But
the other times I don't remember, they were too long ago. Either
way, shouldn't the focus be working a little better than this in a
vertical composition?

The camera is otherwise perfect. No stuck pixels. Only 1 light gray
hot pixel at 8 seconds exposure time. Colors are good. Exposures
are good. I really don't want to send it in and risk these other
problems unless I really have to.

Just fishing for opinions...Thanks.

 

[Robert Walker]

One other thought...

I noticed that the focus problem occurs much more frequently when maximum zoom is reached. I found that slightly backing off the zoom greatly improves the auto-focus.

I have actually had this problem a few times in the past few
months, but hoped that it was just the situation (ie bad lighting,
subject, etc). However, in daylight (albiet dusk), once again my
camera would not focus when held in a vertical composition. It did
this once before in bright sunny light as well. In both instances,
I was photographing a headshot of a person, and had the focus
circle on their face (bad focus), chest (bad focus), collar (bad
focus), hair (bad focus), etc. In both cases, I also shot many
horizontal shots, from the same approx. distance and same approx.
focal length, with absolutely no focus problems. The fact that
both times I was in daylight, and both times I had no problems with
horizontal compositions, I wonder if my camera has a bad or
malfunctioning sensor in it. The odd thing is / and the reason I
haven't said anything before is that in other times I have done
verticals with no problems at all.

As a technical note, I don't think I turned off IR focusing either
time. I know I didn't on the last occurance, as I was limited on
time and was just trying to get the shot over and done with. But
the other times I don't remember, they were too long ago. Either
way, shouldn't the focus be working a little better than this in a
vertical composition?

The camera is otherwise perfect. No stuck pixels. Only 1 light gray
hot pixel at 8 seconds exposure time. Colors are good. Exposures
are good. I really don't want to send it in and risk these other
problems unless I really have to.

Just fishing for opinions...Thanks.

 

[Daniel Lauring]

Were they backlit? Backlighting can play havoc with the autofocus.

 

[matt chase]

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. ANd to answer a few questions.

The subject one time was partially backlit...the sun was to one side but it was still a bit behind him. The other time the subject was somewhere around sidelit.

OOF. I am not having the problem that Ger Bee mentions. I see that the subject is OOF in the viewfinder, and I don't shoot. I keep trying to get it to where it looks in focus before shooting. As of yet, I have not had any shots that looked in focus in the viewfinder that were OOF when reviewing them larger on my computer.

Interesting theories about the battery / focus connection. I am using the battery grip, and generally don't let it get below 70% before I recharge it. So this shouldn't be a factor in my camera.

And I think Ger Bee is right, that it is just less accurate in vertical focusing because of the sensors. 98% of the time my horizontal shots, no matter what the subject, are in focus where I want them to be in focus. And about 75% of the time my verticals are in focus too...its just that 25% of the time that the camera has trouble that is irratating, and especially when it is like the last time when I was on a job and pressed for time (did I mention the boss was there with me too?). But alas, I suppose that is what manual focus is for...

Thanks again.

 

[Ger Bee]

Interesting theories about the battery / focus connection. I am
using the battery grip, and generally don't let it get below 70%
before I recharge it. So this shouldn't be a factor in my camera.

About how many shots to you get my this time. I find the thing is really flat when it says 40% - I'm getting about 300 shots between charges.

 

[matt chase]

I have never really counted because one day I might only shoot 50 shots, then none for a week, then 100 more, then a few days off, etc. So the battery spends a fair amount of time just sitting, losing its charge. But I would guestimate it at around 250-300 shots before it reaches the 70% mark, onboard flash off, lcd off except for review. I will pay more attention the next time I give it a fresh charge.