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The new Leica
- Thread starter G2 Lover
- Start date
Steven Lyons
Forum Enthusiast
looks sweet. $995 is my guess.
N
Nicholas Newell
Guest
Leica chose a fast lens and a small prosumer sensor over a slower ( F3.5) lens with a APS size sensor. A poor choice IMO, since the slower lens with larger sensor would have allowed the best of both worlds - prosumer level noise and fast shutter speeds or the low noise/smooth pictures that DSLR's are capable of. Also, in a camera that tries to be so filmlike and classical, why an electronic instead of a optical viewfinder? The lens looks fabulous - maybe Leica will get it right and produce a proper "digital rangefinder" in the next iteration.
Nicholas
Nicholas
http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14871
same camera, "slightly" different cosmetics
same camera, "slightly" different cosmetics
the thing with me is that Henri-Carter Bresson has been my all time favorite photographer, and subconsciously, i have always longed for a camera similar to the one he used (of course I know the new leica and the one he used are worlds apart).
oh yeah, i the price will be 1800 euro, i saw on one of the leica sites just now, to be released in early february.
i am not sure if this small sensor will provide us with a large amount of DOF, vs the shallow dof that we can achieve now with the DR.
By the way, another "weird" thing i noticed is that this new leica, though traditional by all means, even has a movie recording function! and yes, the lens is SUPERB!
oh yeah, i the price will be 1800 euro, i saw on one of the leica sites just now, to be released in early february.
i am not sure if this small sensor will provide us with a large amount of DOF, vs the shallow dof that we can achieve now with the DR.
By the way, another "weird" thing i noticed is that this new leica, though traditional by all means, even has a movie recording function! and yes, the lens is SUPERB!
I have no idea about this new camera. However, an old story about Leica comes to mind. There's much discussion on this site and on the Canon lense forum about quality, etc. I've always used Canon cameras and lenses. Years ago, someone had a Leica M2 or M3 with a 50mm lense. I was shooting an F1 with Canon 1.4 lense. We shot the same scene standing about in the same position. The film ended up batched process together. Prints came off the same enlarger through the same chemicals. The Leica print was sharper. There was just something extra about photo produced from the Leica. And, it wasn't that the Canon didn't provide a great image. I didn't rush out to buy a Leica. Maybe too expensive. But, maybe the Canon F1 had some other advantages, after all it was an SLR and not a rangefinder. Don't know if the Leica digital would do this, and I doubt it would. Buying these digital cameras is like buying a camera that you can only one type of film in for its lifetime. If that sensor is a problem, no amount of expensive glass in front of it can fix that issue.
Doug Kerr
Forum Pro
G2,
This definitely qualifies as (and is obviously intended to be) "non-SLR-like".
Best regards,
Doug
Why is that unusual? There are many serious digtal cameras with sensors that small (8.8 x 6.6 mm) or smaller. (The sensor is smaller than that in my Fuji S602.) The upcoming Sony F828 has a so-called "2/3 inch" size sensor.
My guess is $700.00
This definitely qualifies as (and is obviously intended to be) "non-SLR-like".
Best regards,
Doug
Doug Kerr
Forum Pro
An APS size sensor (30.2 x 16.7 mm) would have a very unusual aspect ratio for a digital camera (about 9:5). Do you perhaps mean APS-C (as in the 300D)?
Best regards,
Doug
Max Fun
Senior Member
No Leica lens, but it has a Zeiss. Also f/2-2.4 and even has 5x zoom. They both have the same sensor size, but feature wise, seems like the Sony has more. Can someone tell me what's the fascination for this camera, besides the Leica brand?
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
--
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
wburychka
Leading Member
Being a fan of tradition, I took a look at the specs. It looks to me like a repackaged Nikon CP5700 with a wider end on the zoom. In any case, the CCD sensor--approx. 39% as large as the 300D--is the same. The 8-sec. longest exposure is the same. Max. ISO of 400 is the same (and probably just as unusable!). It also uses the 4:3 aspect ratio of non-dslr cameras. The Nikon did have an optional 3:2 ratio image, though. The specs don't address focus assist, but the Nikon lacked it and was impossible in low light/low contrast situations.
I'm not sure what market they're going after with this camera, but I can't see it worth more than about $600 US--given recent prices for similar cameras. It certainly is not an alternative to the 300D!
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Bill
300D - It's a great camera, even if it isn't black
I'm not sure what market they're going after with this camera, but I can't see it worth more than about $600 US--given recent prices for similar cameras. It certainly is not an alternative to the 300D!
--
Bill
300D - It's a great camera, even if it isn't black
Juan Luis Polo
Member
1.800 € is the suggested price. It's a real Leica M, at least for the money...
Juan Luis
Juan Luis
Max Fun
Senior Member
Sorry, the f717 has a 1/1.8 sensor, which is smaller than the 2/3 sensor in the Leica.
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
--
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
hm
Senior Member
Real manual controls for zoom, focus, and aperture, as in "rings turned by fingers", versus dials or "fly by wire" button controls.
-harry
jouni
Senior Member
As the owner of M2 and M4P with 3 Leitz lenses, I can only say, new digital leica is not interesting for me. As You say yourself, they are from 2 different worlds; digital and film cameras. If You like to own classic digital camera, Leica, Nikon or some other, I guess it is better to wait. This branch is developing very fast, new modells come and go, one modell is leader abaut a year, then it's out of the game.
Now I plan to sell my old cameras away, sooner or later they will be useless. Cheers, Jouni
Now I plan to sell my old cameras away, sooner or later they will be useless. Cheers, Jouni
KennyG
Senior Member
It is a Panasonic with their sensor. I'll wait until they get it right. Heard a price of $1,500. At that you are paying $1,400 for the badge plus lens and a hundred bucks for the Panasonic bits.
Kenny
If you really want to know what I shoot with - look under my profile.
going_digital
Forum Enthusiast
Leica like all other camera manufacturers realizes that the move from analog to digital is unstoppable. In the future, film will be the niche while digital will be the mainstream. Leica has to move to digital into an already crowded and confusing market. Without any advantage in unit volume and cost, they need to differentiate themselves and to target their most loyal and likely customers. That means building on the Leica tradition in the digital format. People who bought Leica analog cameras for so many decades do so for some reason not having to do with price, and not having to do with image quality (arguably, some might argue that Leica images are sharper, more contrasty, better, I wouldn't know). If image quality of Leica is higher, it can't be night and day with the best that Canon or Nikon or Pentax can make. Nonetheless, it is the combination of design, features, and tradition that stands Leica out of the crowd. This same combination is what will help Leica carve out their niche in the digital crowd as well.
Just like re-design of the classic Leica rangefinders has been establishing themselves in the analog market, Leica hopes to establish their new line of digital cameras. How well they carry along their tradition and feature sets into their digital cameras will determine whether the company succeedes in digital (and hence survives). If they do as well as their current rangefinders, I think they'll do fine. If they don't, then they have signficant challenges ahead of them.
The new lens on this Digilux 2 is a good start. 3 manual control rings on the lens, nich zoom range, nice wide aperture. Non-retracting lens (just take off the cap, while booting the camera, and ready to shoot). Niche magnesium body, styling of Leica, quick response (I don't know if they've improved the audio register - shutter sound to let you know when the picture is taken).
But dang... that EVF! Even the Digilux 1 had optical rangefinder! They have made great manual focus design, but with an optical view finder? They claim that the huge lens blocks the view. They got too agressive with making the zoom range and aperture on that lens so large, such that it got so big. What they should have done is to provide interchangeable lens mount, and reduce the size of the zoom range, making the optical viewfinder possible. The Digitlux zooms down to 35mm, without the wide aperture, and this has been a complaint that the wide end is limited. This could have been addressed by allowing the lens to be switched. Along those lines, they should have made it compatible with the existing interchangeable rangefinder lens that made the Leica rangefinders famous.
And what's the deal with pop-up flash? Do any traditional Leica's have popup-up flash? That's a modern camera feature that is very Japanese (all-in-one), don't know whey Leica thought they needed to adopt it. After all, they are positioning this as a photo-journalist camera (for event capture).
And they should have incorporated at least an APS sized sensor to start, even at higher price. I don't think a Leica owner would care about paying a couple hundred dollars more for a large sensor (assuming they executed on everything else correctly) as part of the Leica quality positioning, but they would not like buying a relabeled Panasonic rangefinder at $1K.
If Leica tries too hard to compete against the hoard of manufacturer's making digicams, they'll likely not succeed because their product becomes too much like the rest and too little like a Leica. This makes their product less interesting to those who would buy Leica.
On their SLR"s, they did the right thing. They made it so compatible with their R8, that it is the R8 that you already have. Given that these things aren't cheap, they were right to offer a digital back so that loyal Leica owners can switch to digital by changing the back. (I wonder about dust, though). This allows them in the future to offer larger size sensors (up to FF) as they become developed and available. This is the ultimate upgradeable DSLR that nobody else can claim. True, it isn't cheap, but Leicas never were. But in the end, Leica owners want Leica cameras, not Leica labeled Panasonic cameras.
Just like re-design of the classic Leica rangefinders has been establishing themselves in the analog market, Leica hopes to establish their new line of digital cameras. How well they carry along their tradition and feature sets into their digital cameras will determine whether the company succeedes in digital (and hence survives). If they do as well as their current rangefinders, I think they'll do fine. If they don't, then they have signficant challenges ahead of them.
The new lens on this Digilux 2 is a good start. 3 manual control rings on the lens, nich zoom range, nice wide aperture. Non-retracting lens (just take off the cap, while booting the camera, and ready to shoot). Niche magnesium body, styling of Leica, quick response (I don't know if they've improved the audio register - shutter sound to let you know when the picture is taken).
But dang... that EVF! Even the Digilux 1 had optical rangefinder! They have made great manual focus design, but with an optical view finder? They claim that the huge lens blocks the view. They got too agressive with making the zoom range and aperture on that lens so large, such that it got so big. What they should have done is to provide interchangeable lens mount, and reduce the size of the zoom range, making the optical viewfinder possible. The Digitlux zooms down to 35mm, without the wide aperture, and this has been a complaint that the wide end is limited. This could have been addressed by allowing the lens to be switched. Along those lines, they should have made it compatible with the existing interchangeable rangefinder lens that made the Leica rangefinders famous.
And what's the deal with pop-up flash? Do any traditional Leica's have popup-up flash? That's a modern camera feature that is very Japanese (all-in-one), don't know whey Leica thought they needed to adopt it. After all, they are positioning this as a photo-journalist camera (for event capture).
And they should have incorporated at least an APS sized sensor to start, even at higher price. I don't think a Leica owner would care about paying a couple hundred dollars more for a large sensor (assuming they executed on everything else correctly) as part of the Leica quality positioning, but they would not like buying a relabeled Panasonic rangefinder at $1K.
If Leica tries too hard to compete against the hoard of manufacturer's making digicams, they'll likely not succeed because their product becomes too much like the rest and too little like a Leica. This makes their product less interesting to those who would buy Leica.
On their SLR"s, they did the right thing. They made it so compatible with their R8, that it is the R8 that you already have. Given that these things aren't cheap, they were right to offer a digital back so that loyal Leica owners can switch to digital by changing the back. (I wonder about dust, though). This allows them in the future to offer larger size sensors (up to FF) as they become developed and available. This is the ultimate upgradeable DSLR that nobody else can claim. True, it isn't cheap, but Leicas never were. But in the end, Leica owners want Leica cameras, not Leica labeled Panasonic cameras.
N
Nicholas Newell
Guest
Doug,
I did mean a 300D size sensor. This is quite commonly referred to as "APS sized" (see numerous references on this site). The larger format you mention, APS-H, certainly does have an unusual aspect ratio.
Nicholas
I did mean a 300D size sensor. This is quite commonly referred to as "APS sized" (see numerous references on this site). The larger format you mention, APS-H, certainly does have an unusual aspect ratio.
Nicholas
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