time for me to sign off of Canon SLR Talk

[smoody]

it's been a while since i've read one of those "time to move on" posts, so i thought i'd stir things up with one of my own. i've been here long enough to see just about every topic go into syndication. it's kind of like watching re-runs of the dating game...once you know where an episode is going, all the fun is gone.

reasons i have stayed as long as i have: 1) keeping up-to-date on canon annoucements, 2) reading people's hands-on accounts of specific equipment, and c) learning about workflow.

i've reached a point where i know just about all one can know about the equipment and for those things i don't know, there are other forums that are "all business" where my questions can be answered without people on the forum taking it personally.

but, more importantly, i've reached a point where it's not about the equipment for me anymore. it's about the final product. over the past month or two, my love for photography -- brought about by finding some photographers that inspire me and, more importantly, my purchase of a DSLR three months ago, has transcended the particulars of the equipment. i've devolved into using $16 plastic films cameras, polaroids, and medium format film cameras combined with scanning. i mostly shoot digital, but, at one level, i don't notice anymore. i figure out the feeling i want to convey in a photograph and then pick up the proper camera for the job. sometimes it's 5 ounces and has a plastic lens and sometimes it's almost 5 pounds and has percision glass.

someone once posted in my pbase account guestbook that i don't deserve the equipment i have. that post could have only come from someone on this board and that attitude is what i consider to be the darker side of this community -- not with everyone, but with enough people to make it not interesting to me anymore.

what does it mean to start caring about the result more than the equipment? to me, it means moving to a forum that is all about sharing photos and sharing critiques blindly among both peers and superiors. in my case, that forum is http://www.photopoints.com (thank you to whomever recommended it on this forum). i've only posted two photos thus far, but the enjoyment i have from participating in that forum makes me feel like i'm finally on track.

and, when i see some of the beautiful images on that forum created by cameras that some people on this forum laugh at, i realize that i have been a bit brainwashed by what i've read here again and again.

this forum is an important first step for anyone diving in to DSLR photography and without it, i'd still be living in the DSLR dark ages. i recommend it to every newbie i encounter.

my advice to anyone who identifies with what i'm saying...dive deeper into photography, not photography equipment.

my style has evolved to a point where my pbase photos no longer represent my interests so i've removed my gallery. if you want to discover what i'm up to, join me in a different arena -- the one where L glass is never mentioned and there are thousands of beautiful images produced by thousands of photograhers using thousand of different tools.

thank you to everyone who has helped me learn about photography hardware and software. i've attached one of my recent photographs to shorten this message by a thousand words. what camera did i take it with? who cares...

image: untitled (predisposition to motion)



smoody

 

[Scott Pruett]

i've reached a point where i know just about all one can know about
the equipment and for those things i don't know, there are other
forums that are "all business" where my questions can be answered
without people on the forum taking it personally.

what camera did i
take it with? who cares...

 

[DavidP #28649]

This forum was never really intended to be about photography, but about the equipment.

You're making a smart move, IMO.

But if you need LOTS of diverse input about equipment, this is still one of the better places to get it.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[RichW]

and always will be. When you want to talk and learn about equipment come on back!

Rich

i've reached a point where i know just about all one can know about
the equipment and for those things i don't know, there are other
forums that are "all business" where my questions can be answered
without people on the forum taking it personally.

what camera did i
take it with? who cares...

 

[photo-op]

This forum was never really intended to be about photography, but
about the equipment.

You're making a smart move, IMO.

But if you need LOTS of diverse input about equipment, this is
still one of the better places to get it.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

--
pbase supporter

 

[GBear]

it's been a while since i've read one of those "time to move on"
posts

 

[GeorgeW149850]

Your comments cause me to want to see your work. I am not qualified to be an amateur, yet I have a Canon 10D, and four lenses. I went all out initially so I could spend the time learning the "hardware"....however.....

I did spend a couple of months here just reading the opinions of users before I changed my mind about purchasing a Nikon 5700 to the Canon10D.

Without the challenges posed by members of this forum - I would not feel a part unless I, too, submitted my "squirrel" picture, or my "hummingbird" picture. I don't always agree with the things I read here ....but...I do appreciate every thing that I can learn from anyone willing to take the time to correct me, or add to my education about Photography. Smoody, I'm sure you're one of those that I would enjoy learning from.

Remember when you first started.....your brain was a sponge and it soaked up every bit of info on the table... It's your turn to feed the sponges out there, and somehow you will. Sorry to see you or anyone else go.... but then I'm always appreciative of those willing to share.

A big THANKS and GREAT LUCK to you

GeorgeW

 

[Doug Walker]

well you know the rest.

How 'bout giving back a little of what you've learned from this forum to some of the newbies? This forum is like a school. People come here, learn and then move on. But who's going to stick around and teach the new people. Seems that you might be a little myopic in your view of how this forum works. Stick around and help the newbies learn. You gonna be surprised at how much you'll learn teaching others about things you think you know.

it's been a while since i've read one of those "time to move on"
posts, so i thought i'd stir things up with one of my own. i've
been here long enough to see just about every topic go into
syndication. it's kind of like watching re-runs of the dating
game...once you know where an episode is going, all the fun is gone.

reasons i have stayed as long as i have: 1) keeping up-to-date on
canon annoucements, 2) reading people's hands-on accounts of
specific equipment, and c) learning about workflow.

i've reached a point where i know just about all one can know about
the equipment and for those things i don't know, there are other
forums that are "all business" where my questions can be answered
without people on the forum taking it personally.

but, more importantly, i've reached a point where it's not about
the equipment for me anymore. it's about the final product. over
the past month or two, my love for photography -- brought about by
finding some photographers that inspire me and, more importantly,
my purchase of a DSLR three months ago, has transcended the
particulars of the equipment. i've devolved into using $16 plastic
films cameras, polaroids, and medium format film cameras combined
with scanning. i mostly shoot digital, but, at one level, i don't
notice anymore. i figure out the feeling i want to convey in a
photograph and then pick up the proper camera for the job.
sometimes it's 5 ounces and has a plastic lens and sometimes it's
almost 5 pounds and has percision glass.

someone once posted in my pbase account guestbook that i don't
deserve the equipment i have. that post could have only come from
someone on this board and that attitude is what i consider to be
the darker side of this community -- not with everyone, but with
enough people to make it not interesting to me anymore.

what does it mean to start caring about the result more than the
equipment? to me, it means moving to a forum that is all about
sharing photos and sharing critiques blindly among both peers and
superiors. in my case, that forum is http://www.photopoints.com (thank
you to whomever recommended it on this forum). i've only posted
two photos thus far, but the enjoyment i have from participating in
that forum makes me feel like i'm finally on track.

and, when i see some of the beautiful images on that forum created
by cameras that some people on this forum laugh at, i realize that
i have been a bit brainwashed by what i've read here again and
again.

this forum is an important first step for anyone diving in to DSLR
photography and without it, i'd still be living in the DSLR dark
ages. i recommend it to every newbie i encounter.

my advice to anyone who identifies with what i'm saying...dive
deeper into photography, not photography equipment.

my style has evolved to a point where my pbase photos no longer
represent my interests so i've removed my gallery. if you want to
discover what i'm up to, join me in a different arena -- the one
where L glass is never mentioned and there are thousands of
beautiful images produced by thousands of photograhers using
thousand of different tools.

thank you to everyone who has helped me learn about photography
hardware and software. i've attached one of my recent photographs
to shorten this message by a thousand words. what camera did i
take it with? who cares...

image: untitled (predisposition to motion)



smoody

--
Doug Walker
Check my profile for equipment list.

 

[Zidar162589]

This forum does go overboard on minute, often pointless concerns. So I can see why you'd be repelled by our shooting rulers and the like. But this business about making images with cheap cameras has been around for a long time, and it can get just as silly. I once provoked a serious artist type photographer into hysterics by ridiculing his 8 week trip around the American southwest with a Diana (a $4 camera then) and 10 rolls of film. He was printing an exhibition to be shown at a trendy gallery in Portland. I knew he was a guy with a trust fund and a serious collection of Leicas, so I prodded him for the value in shooting with a cheap camera rather than one of his Leicas. "Did this give you an identity that you lack as a guy who doesn't have to work for a living, that never will?" I asked him all sorts of irritating questions of this sort and never got an answer.

Shooting with a drugstore camera is just another form of equipment snobbery, unless, of course, you are in the first grade and headed for Disneyland.

Abu Mumia
--
'Secondly I like scotch, and thirdly I like bullfighting.'

• Ernest Hemingway

 

[DavidP #28649]

Hmmm, I tend to agree.

"I don't need no stinkin' autofocus".

(Granted, focus-free is neat - I wonder if we could get one of those to front-focus?)

Shooting with a drugstore camera is just another form of equipment
snobbery, unless, of course, you are in the first grade and headed
for Disneyland.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DavidP #28649]

Yeah. You should at least give back until a certain percentage think you have "rage" about some "issue". LOL.

well you know the rest.
How 'bout giving back a little of what you've learned from this
forum to some of the newbies? This forum is like a school. People
come here, learn and then move on. But who's going to stick around
and teach the new people. Seems that you might be a little myopic
in your view of how this forum works. Stick around and help the
newbies learn. You gonna be surprised at how much you'll learn
teaching others about things you think you know.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Petteri Sulonen]

Abu Mumia wrote:
[snip]

Shooting with a drugstore camera is just another form of equipment
snobbery, unless, of course, you are in the first grade and headed
for Disneyland.

I don't think I ever met a photographer who was at all serious about what he does who didn't suffer from at least a touch of equipment snobbery -- whether it's about a Leica or a Lomo. If your trust-fund hippie does good work with his drugstore camera, what's your problem? There is a special aesthetic to bad optics, you know: I've seen artists who can get a lot of mileage out of that, producing images that are memorable, moving, and interesting. Your snide comments tell me a lot more about you than him.

Check out [ http://www.lomography.com ] for a refreshing, lo-fi approach to photography (and some very good photos).

Petteri
--
Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Pontification: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/ ]

 

[Petteri Sulonen]

Yeah. You should at least give back until a certain percentage
think you have "rage" about some "issue". LOL.

...no, wait, it was the other way around.

Seriously, the minute you acquire some kind of standing on a forum like this, someone will get a chip on their shoulder about you. It just means you've arrived. Just give them a pitying smile and a gentle pat on the head, and ignore them, is my advice.

Petteri
--
Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Pontification: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/ ]

 

[DavidP #28649]

You mean I need to develop a completely condescending attitude?

Bow in my presence, all DPR newbies.

Nah, the minute I quit learning something here, I'm outta here!

Seriously, the minute you acquire some kind of standing on a forum
like this, someone will get a chip on their shoulder about you.
It just means you've arrived. Just give them a pitying smile and a
gentle pat on the head, and ignore them, is my advice.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Zidar162589]

I like to poke and prod people and get them to confess to various crimes against themselves. So in that respect, you are right. But that doesn't mean I don't have some insight into their motivations. There are a lot of photographers who don't have to earn a living, and they tend to make a career based on dumping on those who do. Ansel Adams, who was quite wealthy, is a good example of a rich artist with integrety. I can't extend the same compliment to Cartier Bresson, one of the wealthiest men in Europe, who has done all but wreck Magnum with his goofy ideas about what a photographer is supposed to be.

I may be snide and unfair, but I do have a right to an opinion. Meanwhile, I'll check out the Lomo site.

Abu Mumia

--
'Secondly I like scotch, and thirdly I like bullfighting.'

• Ernest Hemingway

 

[Hu]

i've reached a point where i know just about all one can know about
the equipment and for those things i don't know, there are other
forums that are "all business" where my questions can be answered
without people on the forum taking it personally.

what camera did i
take it with? who cares...

Scott,

He actually only makes one point everything else embellishes the main point which is that he feels he is vastly superior to most or all members of this board. However he quickly proves just how little he knows when he states that he knows pretty much all there is to know about equipment. I've never heard a truly knowledgeable person make that claim and I've listened to the Canon sponsored shooters and people with worldwide reputations. They are well aware that they don't begin to know it all. All of us are primarily focused on the end result and it is snobbery to pretend that the great mass isn't. As for the subjects of his pictures intended to illustrate that he has moved on they look much like the pretentious shots first semester students tend to take.

Once he realizes where he is really at then he can begin to move ahead. As long as he thinks he has reached the top or very near it, that will be true. He has achieved his personal best, he will improve very little if any. I'm a fairly unknowledgeable photographer with quite modest equipment. The difference between myself and "Smoody" is that I recognize where I am at.

Hu

 

[Petteri Sulonen]

I like to poke and prod people and get them to confess to various
crimes against themselves. So in that respect, you are right. But
that doesn't mean I don't have some insight into their motivations.

What do the motivations matter? I thought it's the work that counts.

There are a lot of photographers who don't have to earn a living,
and they tend to make a career based on dumping on those who do.
Ansel Adams, who was quite wealthy, is a good example of a rich
artist with integrety. I can't extend the same compliment to
Cartier Bresson, one of the wealthiest men in Europe, who has done
all but wreck Magnum with his goofy ideas about what a photographer
is supposed to be.

I've never actually read anything much C-B has had to say about photography. I do admire some of his work, though: it shows an uncanny sense of timing. Even the staged ones. ;-)

I may be snide and unfair, but I do have a right to an opinion.
Meanwhile, I'll check out the Lomo site.

Don't we all...

Petteri
--
Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Pontification: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/ ]

 

[Malcolm101962]

I've always been a hardware junkie, but I've also always believed that technology was NOT the ultimate answer in photography, the environment, or peace between nations. eh.... back to reality.

We all hope that the next big breakthrough, the next fabulous lens, the full frame 16MP DLSR with 17 color layers will be our savoir and we can rush out and add zirconium fiber tripods, 6 axis heads, ultra filters, 25,640 dpi printers, and software that will correct any possible error; create any possible effect. And we WILL continue to buy this stuff.... it's an ego thing.

Frankly I'd settle for the fictional super re-focusing software you see on TV where the CIA zooms in and gets a full license plate from 3 pixels! Yeah, right, forget the laws of physics.

When I began shooting 35mm B&W back in the '60s and putting together my own darkroom, I realized quickly that I couldn't fix badly exposed and badly composed pictures. Man, I converted a lot of silver nitrides into junk! I eventually found some pretty good books and got some advice that I mostly (stupidly) ignored. I made a lot of mistakes.

Fast forward 20 years. I can afford good gear again. I buy into the Canon line and the education starts all over again. Sudden revelation. I create the pictures, not the camera. Enter into experimentation phase - waste more silver compounds.

Enter the digital age. Experimentation is "free" within reason. Now it all makes sense - be creative until your desires are fullfilled. Moderately happy with my results. Then I find DPReview. WOW! What a source! I learned an incredible amount. I also found a lot of meaningless sidetracks. I'm ashamed that I have been drawn into many of them. I vow to avoid this in the future.

Ultimately, it IS a hardware forum, sprinkled with genuine nuggets of insight, knowledge, and even humor. There are MUCH better forums for critical assessment and ego reinforcement (nobody seems to utter a negative word on some forums, which renders them usless.) We all need that - it is central to our continuance. No photographer I know produces works of art for him or herself alone. Real constructive criticism is really tough to take, but it is the only way to grow. There are a lot of people with experience on this forum who know how to teach.

I would ask you not to leave but rather continue to contribute when you feel you can. Yeah, this forum can take up a lot of time and I sometimes go away for weeks. But, I always come back, and I always get someting useful.

Regards, Malcolm

 

[Rico Tudor]

(nt)

 

[Malcolm101962]

I've always been a hardware junkie, but I've also always believed
that technology was NOT the ultimate answer in photography, the
environment, or peace between nations. eh.... back to reality.

We all hope that the next big breakthrough, the next fabulous lens,
the full frame 16MP DLSR with 17 color layers will be our savoir
and we can rush out and add zirconium fiber tripods, 6 axis heads,
ultra filters, 25,640 dpi printers, and software that will correct
any possible error; create any possible effect. And we WILL
continue to buy this stuff.... it's an ego thing.

Frankly I'd settle for the fictional super re-focusing software you
see on TV where the CIA zooms in and gets a full license plate from
3 pixels! Yeah, right, forget the laws of physics.

When I began shooting 35mm B&W back in the '60s and putting
together my own darkroom, I realized quickly that I couldn't fix
badly exposed and badly composed pictures. Man, I converted a lot
of silver nitrides into junk! I eventually found some pretty good
books and got some advice that I mostly (stupidly) ignored. I made
a lot of mistakes.

Fast forward 20 years. I can afford good gear again. I buy into
the Canon line and the education starts all over again. Sudden
revelation. I create the pictures, not the camera. Enter into
experimentation phase - waste more silver compounds.

Enter the digital age. Experimentation is "free" within reason.
Now it all makes sense - be creative until your desires are
fullfilled. Moderately happy with my results. Then I find
DPReview. WOW! What a source! I learned an incredible amount. I
also found a lot of meaningless sidetracks. I'm ashamed that I
have been drawn into many of them. I vow to avoid this in the
future.

Ultimately, it IS a hardware forum, sprinkled with genuine nuggets
of insight, knowledge, and even humor. There are MUCH better
forums for critical assessment and ego reinforcement (nobody seems
to utter a negative word on some forums, which renders them
usless.) We all need that - it is central to our continuance. No
photographer I know produces works of art for him or herself alone.
Real constructive criticism is really tough to take, but it is the
only way to grow. There are a lot of people with experience on
this forum who know how to teach.

I would ask you not to leave but rather continue to contribute when
you feel you can. Yeah, this forum can take up a lot of time and I
sometimes go away for weeks. But, I always come back, and I always
get someting useful.

Regards, Malcolm