Adorama Heavy Use lens: Keep or Return?

[Earl Goodson]

After my good experience with a Heavy Use Lumix 35-100 f2.8, I figured I'd try another round of roulette. This Panasonic Leica 10-25 f/1.7 was listed with a damaged aperture ring, and "may have other issues." $515 marked down from $1,035! It looked incredible when I got it out of the box.

But if I push it enough, the aperture ring comes undone. When it does, the zoom doesn't turn. I'm not a videographer, so not a deal-breaker. Glass is flawless, zoom ring otherwise works, in-camera aperture control and manual focus clutch work, no signs of de-centering so far. And I have to try to get the ring to come undone. It stays put with normal use.

Once I snap the aperture ring in place, the lens could pass for brand new. It even came with the box and all of the other accessories still wrapped in the original manufacturer paper.

Keep, repair, or return? I'm waiting on an estimate from Panasonic, but figured I'd get some thoughts.

(just got a message from a tech saying it's not repairable.)

 

[Tom Caldwell]

Yuck, I wonder why they even risk their reputation by even trying to sell these lenses at a discount. This is scrap value suff for those with the skills, access to parts and a workshop to repair them. Not something for the mere amateur to fool around with.

I see that you were warned, but the discount was still not enough to make it worth anyone's while.

 

[HicHic]

Damn that's a good deal.

 

[TheRealYeats]

After my good experience with a Heavy Use Lumix 35-100 f2.8, I figured I'd try another round of roulette. This Panasonic Leica 10-25 f/1.7 was listed with a damaged aperture ring, and "may have other issues." $515 marked down from $1,035! It looked incredible when I got it out of the box.

But if I push it enough, the aperture ring comes undone. When it does, the zoom doesn't turn. I'm not a videographer, so not a deal-breaker. Glass is flawless, zoom ring otherwise works, in-camera aperture control and manual focus clutch work, no signs of de-centering so far. And I have to try to get the ring to come undone. It stays put with normal use.

Once I snap the aperture ring in place, the lens could pass for brand new. It even came with the box and all of the other accessories still wrapped in the original manufacturer paper.

Keep, repair, or return? I'm waiting on an estimate from Panasonic, but figured I'd get some thoughts.

(just got a message from a tech saying it's not repairable.)

My concern would be - what kind of violence was done to the lens that caused the aperture ring to break?

 

[cc99]

The problem with using a damaged lens that (i) the sealing is shot, so dust and water will eventually get in, and (ii) it is only a matter of time before this lens breaks. So if you can get $500 of use and enjoyment out of this lens before that happens, it's a good deal.

 

[JakeJY]

For older lenses there are usually repair videos on youtube (I just recently bought an old Sigma 17-50 that has that). This lens is probably too new for that.

Also for older Panasonic lenses service manuals are available, for example the 12-35mm:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/3403163/Panasonic-Lumix-H-Es12035.html

However, the 10-25mm looks like it is not really repairable beyond a few components:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Lumix/comments/1es4b2k/hx1025_repair_unrepairable

Note that Lumix repair guy on reddit sometimes responds to questions so you can try asking him too for tips (or if he is willing to attempt).

While you have the ring off, you should try to take a very good look at all the plastic bits and see if you can recognize where something may have snapped off. It is sometimes possible to glue things back (presuming you can align the plastic perfectly). Note you have to be extremely careful not to break the flex cables!

However, you probably need to use 2 part epoxy glue or something that does not off-gas (superglue or other cyanoacrylate type glues typically do off-gas). This is because the gas fumes can get on the lens elements and then ruin your picture (not a necessarily a problem if the part is exposed while glue is curing but yours looks like it would be enclosed).

Also, some lenses like the 12-32mm the outer rings are just attached with double sided tape, so replacing that with new tape can sometimes fix things (although that is less likely for a weather sealed one like your 10-25mm).

 

[jeffharris]

After my good experience with a Heavy Use Lumix 35-100 f2.8, I figured I'd try another round of roulette. This Panasonic Leica 10-25 f/1.7 was listed with a damaged aperture ring, and "may have other issues." $515 marked down from $1,035! It looked incredible when I got it out of the box.

But if I push it enough, the aperture ring comes undone. When it does, the zoom doesn't turn. I'm not a videographer, so not a deal-breaker. Glass is flawless, zoom ring otherwise works, in-camera aperture control and manual focus clutch work, no signs of de-centering so far. And I have to try to get the ring to come undone. It stays put with normal use.

Once I snap the aperture ring in place, the lens could pass for brand new. It even came with the box and all of the other accessories still wrapped in the original manufacturer paper.

Keep, repair, or return? I'm waiting on an estimate from Panasonic, but figured I'd get some thoughts.

(just got a message from a tech saying it's not repairable.

You have to ask?

RETURN!

 

[SonyX]

After my good experience with a Heavy Use Lumix 35-100 f2.8, I figured I'd try another round of roulette. This Panasonic Leica 10-25 f/1.7 was listed with a damaged aperture ring, and "may have other issues." $515 marked down from $1,035! It looked incredible when I got it out of the box.

But if I push it enough, the aperture ring comes undone. When it does, the zoom doesn't turn. I'm not a videographer, so not a deal-breaker. Glass is flawless, zoom ring otherwise works, in-camera aperture control and manual focus clutch work, no signs of de-centering so far. And I have to try to get the ring to come undone. It stays put with normal use.

Once I snap the aperture ring in place, the lens could pass for brand new. It even came with the box and all of the other accessories still wrapped in the original manufacturer paper.

Keep, repair, or return? I'm waiting on an estimate from Panasonic, but figured I'd get some thoughts.

(just got a message from a tech saying it's not repairable.)

Have you tried contacting an authorized Panasonic service center for repair?
Another thing is that I personally have never used the aperture control on the lenses (for photos - there's a control on the camera, for video - a VND filter).
My opinion is to keep the lens, but carefully wrap over the ring with black tape (or wider rubber ring) to protect it from dust and moisture.

--
Alex
http://www.instagram.com/alex_cy

 

[Earl Goodson]

For older lenses there are usually repair videos on youtube (I just recently bought an old Sigma 17-50 that has that). This lens is probably too new for that.

Also for older Panasonic lenses service manuals are available, for example the 12-35mm:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/3403163/Panasonic-Lumix-H-Es12035.html

However, the 10-25mm looks like it is not really repairable beyond a few components:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Lumix/comments/1es4b2k/hx1025_repair_unrepairable

Note that Lumix repair guy on reddit sometimes responds to questions so you can try asking him too for tips (or if he is willing to attempt).

Great advice! I reached out to the Lumix guy on Reddit; he's the one who told me it wasn't repairable by Panasonic. He said they'd just give me a quote for an exchange (new lens). I then asked about ideas that would simply keep the ring in place; we'll see what he says.

While you have the ring off, you should try to take a very good look at all the plastic bits and see if you can recognize where something may have snapped off. It is sometimes possible to glue things back (presuming you can align the plastic perfectly). Note you have to be extremely careful not to break the flex cables!

However, you probably need to use 2 part epoxy glue or something that does not off-gas (superglue or other cyanoacrylate type glues typically do off-gas). This is because the gas fumes can get on the lens elements and then ruin your picture (not a necessarily a problem if the part is exposed while glue is curing but yours looks like it would be enclosed).

Also, some lenses like the 12-32mm the outer rings are just attached with double sided tape, so replacing that with new tape can sometimes fix things (although that is less likely for a weather sealed one like your 10-25mm).

I'm looking, and I see that a series of plastic connectors that connect the ring to the lens have snapped. As well as the bent metal tab in the 3rd photo, so not taped down. I believe I see a flex cable in there, but it's pretty deep. I do see two spots for a screw that are empty but unbroken...

The physical aperture mechanism underneath the loose ring seems stuck. I can't get it to rotate at all.

ChatGTP suggested a dot of silicone glue or non-permanent UV resin, since it's removable, yet would keep the ring in place. It also said the same thing as you regarding superglue.

 

[Earl Goodson]

Have you tried contacting an authorized Panasonic service center for repair?

I sent an email to Panasonic repairs asking for some kind of quote. As well as a guy on Reddit who is a Panasonic repair specialist and shows gear breakdowns online. He's the one who told me Panasonic won't repair it.

Another thing is that I personally have never used the aperture control on the lenses (for photos - there's a control on the camera, for video - a VND filter).

That's what interested me, to be honest. I use OM-1, and you can't use Panasonc aperture rings on them anyway. The in-camera aperture control works just fine.

My opinion is to keep the lens, but carefully wrap over the ring with black tape (or wider rubber ring) to protect it from dust and moisture.

That seems practical. Maybe a dot of a glue that won't outgas, for further security. And then some black tape to further help. It's still not sealed, but I wouldn't really use this for backpacking. I see this as (potentially) a stellar event photography lens; this plus my 35-100mm f2.8 would be a complete kit, really.

 

[Earl Goodson]

A good point; the "may have other issues" could mean anything. A broken aperture ring today could be dust/water egress onto the sensor or an electronic failure tomorrow...

 

[Earl Goodson]

That's a great perspective. We don't always have to think in terms of "resale value," which is where a lot of opinions seem rooted.

Not knocking it, btw; I'm absolutely thinking about resale value lol. But that's not all there is, either.

The cost of renting this lens for 3 multi-day uses cases would be ~$515.......

 

[VI KING]

I personally would not keep it. Too many compromises and good luck ever selling it in the future.

 

[jalywol]

That is not "heavy use". That's "broken".

I'd fast track that one back.

-J

 

[drj3]

It looks like the broken tabs are pushed forward in your photo which would keep the aperture ring from rotating (see first image below). It I intended to keep the lens as a gamble, I would see if they would move by gently pulling up on them while seeing if they would move back.

Before deciding to gamble and keep the lens, I would look through the EVF while zooming the lens in/out and focusing from close to distance and back. If everything looked okay, then I would repeat this with my ear against the lens to see if I could hear any non-normal sounds.

Check to be sure the snap focus ring works. Shake the lens to see if there are any unexpected noises.

If the lens passed these tests and there was no problem with the IQ, I would place the zoom ring in place and use a very good thin flexible tape (maybe good electrical tape) almost as wide as the two red marks on the second attached image. Wrap it first tightly around the aperture ring. Then carefully press it down around the edges of the aperture ring and then tape it to the camera body. This will securely attach the aperture ring preventing it from moving and provide a better moisture/dust shield than the moveable aperture ring on a new lens.













--
drj3

 

[jeffharris]

Have you tried contacting an authorized Panasonic service center for repair?

I sent an email to Panasonic repairs asking for some kind of quote. As well as a guy on Reddit who is a Panasonic repair specialist and shows gear breakdowns online. He's the one who told me Panasonic won't repair it.

When my PL 100-400mm broke, I sent it to Panasonic and was told it was unrepairable. They offered me a refurb at half price ($900-ish).
I asked if I could get a PL 50-200mm f2.8-4 instead and they agreed. $633.



Maybe Panasonic would offer something similar?

Personally, I’d send it back ASAP.

My opinion is to keep the lens, but carefully wrap over the ring with black tape (or wider rubber ring) to protect it from dust and moisture.

That seems practical. Maybe a dot of a glue that won't outgas, for further security. And then some black tape to further help. It's still not sealed, but I wouldn't really use this for backpacking. I see this as (potentially) a stellar event photography lens; this plus my 35-100mm f2.8 would be a complete kit, really.

Sorry, but that’s really dumb. We called that a Mickey Mouse solution in New England.
Tape the thing up and it may work for how long?

The thing is clearly broken and they SOLD IT TO YOU broken. Return it.
Maybe Adorama has one in working condition. Try MPB, B&H or KEH.

 

[drj3]

Have you tried contacting an authorized Panasonic service center for repair?

I sent an email to Panasonic repairs asking for some kind of quote. As well as a guy on Reddit who is a Panasonic repair specialist and shows gear breakdowns online. He's the one who told me Panasonic won't repair it.

When my PL 100-400mm broke, I sent it to Panasonic and was told it was unrepairable. They offered me a refurb at half price ($900-ish).
I asked if I could get a PL 50-200mm f2.8-4 instead and they agreed. $633.

Maybe Panasonic would offer something similar?

Personally, I’d send it back ASAP.

My opinion is to keep the lens, but carefully wrap over the ring with black tape (or wider rubber ring) to protect it from dust and moisture.

That seems practical. Maybe a dot of a glue that won't outgas, for further security. And then some black tape to further help. It's still not sealed, but I wouldn't really use this for backpacking. I see this as (potentially) a stellar event photography lens; this plus my 35-100mm f2.8 would be a complete kit, really.

Sorry, but that’s really dumb. We called that a Mickey Mouse solution in New England.
Tape the thing up and it may work for how long?
The thing is clearly broken and they SOLD IT TO YOU broken. Return it.
Maybe Adorama has one in working condition. Try MPB, B&H or KEH.

MPB and B&H do have used ones for $1579 and $1612 instead of the $515 the OP paid for the lens.

 

[JakeJY]

Sorry, but that’s really dumb. We called that a Mickey Mouse solution in New England.
Tape the thing up and it may work for how long?
The thing is clearly broken and they SOLD IT TO YOU broken. Return it.
Maybe Adorama has one in working condition. Try MPB, B&H or KEH.

MPB and B&H do have used ones for $1579 and $1612 instead of the $515 the OP paid for the lens.

Yeah I don't think people commenting understand the context of the price he got it for. This lens typically sells $1000 or higher for a good condition working one even on eBay. Even parts-only ones (with no AF or even completely no response) sell for $600-700.

If the lens tests fine optically and AF and camera aperture control works properly, losing the aperture ring functionality is a small price to pay, given OP's camera doesn't work with it anyways. OP just needs to figure out a way to secure it so it doesn't pop off during use, potentially causing further damage.

 

[Earl Goodson]

Thanks for taking the time to help me test this thing. I'm glad you see the value in "well loved" gear.

It looks like the broken tabs are pushed forward in your photo which would keep the aperture ring from rotating (see first image below). It I intended to keep the lens as a gamble, I would see if they would move by gently pulling up on them while seeing if they would move back.

The aperture ring does rotate if I seat it properly, and is a lot harder to get loose. I think that happens when I align the ring well enough with that bent tab. The ring even stops at A and f16, as if nothing was wrong.

Before deciding to gamble and keep the lens, I would look through the EVF while zooming the lens in/out and focusing from close to distance and back. If everything looked okay, then I would repeat this with my ear against the lens to see if I could hear any non-normal sounds.

I did that; nothing strange happens when I zoom in and out while looking at the EVF. Close distance and back work instantly and silently.

Check to be sure the snap focus ring works. Shake the lens to see if there are any unexpected noises.

I did both and the manual snap focus ring works perfectly. Instantly enables focus peaking. Gave it a shake; no noises whatsoever. Very solid inside.

If the lens passed these tests and there was no problem with the IQ, I would place the zoom ring in place and use a very good thin flexible tape (maybe good electrical tape) almost as wide as the two red marks on the second attached image. Wrap it first tightly around the aperture ring. Then carefully press it down around the edges of the aperture ring and then tape it to the camera body. This will securely attach the aperture ring preventing it from moving and provide a better moisture/dust shield than the moveable aperture ring on a new lens.

It passes with flying colors!

The aperture ring is pretty tight when well seated, but the compromised weather sealing was a major concern. Is one wrap-around of tape enough, or should I give it a few layers? Thanks for the help!

 

[Earl Goodson]

Sorry, but that’s really dumb. We called that a Mickey Mouse solution in New England.
Tape the thing up and it may work for how long?
The thing is clearly broken and they SOLD IT TO YOU broken. Return it.
Maybe Adorama has one in working condition. Try MPB, B&H or KEH.

MPB and B&H do have used ones for $1579 and $1612 instead of the $515 the OP paid for the lens.

Yeah I don't think people commenting understand the context of the price he got it for. This lens typically sells $1000 or higher for a good condition working one even on eBay. Even parts-only ones (with no AF or even completely no response) sell for $600-700.

Exactly this. The Leica 10-25 f1.7 is the videography/low-light event/documentary lens for M43. I've wanted one for ages, but it was always beyond my budget. 75% off the price of a new one is pretty legit. I'm open to everyone's opinions, but it's hardly a "dumb" buy. It's a gamble, but a good one.

If the lens tests fine optically and AF and camera aperture control works properly, losing the aperture ring functionality is a small price to pay, given OP's camera doesn't work with it anyways. OP just needs to figure out a way to secure it so it doesn't pop off during use, potentially causing further damage.

I'm pretty close to committing, as it's passed every test I can think of, and folks here are offering some great ideas on securing the aperture ring. My local camera shop also offered to look it over for free for fix ideas. Thanks for your thoughts!