AWB vs Grey Card vs Expodisk

[Rodenmg]

The thread concerning WB issues a Q3 owners was having prompted this mainly to satisfy my own curiosity because I too struggle a bit with WB on my M10R. And I thought some might find it interesting. I ordered an Expodisk and did a quick comparison in the shade of my oak tree. Somewhat open to the sky and spotty sunlight through the leaves. I will have to test under some different lighting conditions to form a definite opinion but in this one example....

Shot with my M10R and Summilux 50, processed in Lr using my default profile for the camera.

The AWB is not the most pleasing to me. This setting shows the most difference of the three. Very warm overall.


Camera AWB As Shot

The Grey Card (from the SpyderCheckr) is to my eyes a big improvement over the AWB not only in skin tone, but the overall image seems better balanced and more realistic.


SpyderCheckr Grey Card

The results from the ExpoDisk are very close to using the Grey Card but I think even more accurate overall.


ExpoDisk

--
... Mike
... https://www.flickr.com/photos/198581502@N02/

 

[DenverSteve]

Thanks for posting.

 

[Rodenmg]

Thanks for posting.

Thanks for looking. I'm always interested in what other people see. I realize we are all looking through a different window. I can only see what my monitor gives me.

 

[Chris Dodkin]

Yep - Expodisc has consistently shown me a more accurate (to my eye) WB in a range of lighting conditions, is quick and easy to use, and is compact enough to keep with me, making it straightforward to deploy as needed

Glad it went well for you as well.

 

[Charles2]

These tools have a (self-negating) educational value, too. After awhile, you start from the raw file and in post-processing make the white balance that conveys the image with whatever emphasis/interpretation you want. You play with temp, tint, overall filter, adjustment of specific color ranges...

 

[Rodenmg]

Yep - Expodisc has consistently shown me a more accurate (to my eye) WB in a range of lighting conditions, is quick and easy to use, and is compact enough to keep with me, making it straightforward to deploy as needed

Glad it went well for you as well.

 

[Rodenmg]

These tools have a (self-negating) educational value, too. After awhile, you start from the raw file and in post-processing make the white balance that conveys the image with whatever emphasis/interpretation you want. You play with temp, tint, overall filter, adjustment of specific color ranges...

 

[simonalexander]

Thanks for making the comparison and posting this! My home-made WB cap for the Q3 (based on expodisc) is almost ready, can't wait to try it out.

 

[Rodenmg]

Again I see a similar pattern. The camera AWB is bit warm, the grey card WB a bit cool, and the Expodisk WB just right.

Especially obvious to me are the colors of my hat and pants. The Expodisk shot is spot on. I'm starting to believe.

By the way, my 16" 4K OLED display is color calibrated using the Datacolor Spyder.

One other thing to note. Not all grey cards are the same. My old Kodak 18% grey card gives very cool/blue results. For these shots I'm using the one in the photos.


Camera Auto White Balance


Camera custom WB using grey card


Camera custom WB using Expodisk

--
... Mike
... https://www.flickr.com/photos/198581502@N02/

 

[Chris Dodkin]

Just read an EV1 review that mentioned the magenta cast still being there - albeit with a new TINT offset feature in camera to help counter it.

Think I'll stick to my Expodisc

 

[Chris Dodkin]

These tools have a (self-negating) educational value, too. After awhile, you start from the raw file and in post-processing make the white balance that conveys the image with whatever emphasis/interpretation you want. You play with temp, tint, overall filter, adjustment of specific color ranges...

For many situations I agree but I find skin tones really hard to get right using that method. I’m sure some people can.

I'd rather have the in-camera WB image to tweak, than just guessing based on the AWB setting from the camera.

It's very very difficult to get skin tones consistent, but the Expodisc + in-camera WB get's you that consistent look, and you can always tweak to taste from there.

 

[DenverSteve]

I obtained the RAW/DNG files from Rodenmg to evaluate the unaltered images on my large studio monitor. I have made this composite image of all three side-by-side, SOOC and unedited in any way other than to composite them and post. Everyone is viewing from different monitors and devices & will have different personal preferences, but here you can see the three images: AWB, Grey Card and Expodisk in their natural state. I did get Rodenmg's permission to post these here. I will post which is which later today.

In my opinion all three are perfectly acceptable from a RAW image and easily color graded to any preference especially for images taken in shadow.

In the meantime, you look and decide which you think is which.......... happy viewing.


AWB, Grey Card, Expodisk........ which is which........ you decide.......

--
It's just my educated opinion. Don't get bent out of shape.
Steve

 

[Chris Dodkin]

When it comes to accurate and consistent WB, the small differences are everything.

Guessing, is just guessing.

 

[Rodenmg]

I obtained the RAW/DNG files from Rodenmg to evaluate the unaltered images on my large studio monitor. I have made this composite image of all three side-by-side, SOOC and unedited in any way other than to composite them and post. Everyone is viewing from different monitors and devices & will have different personal preferences, but here you can see the three images: AWB, Grey Card and Expodisk in their natural state. I did get Rodenmg's permission to post these here. I will post which is which later today.

In my opinion all three are perfectly acceptable from a RAW image and easily color graded to any preference especially for images taken in shadow.

In the meantime, you look and decide which you think is which.......... happy viewing.


AWB, Grey Card, Expodisk........ which is which........ you decide.......

Thanks for adding this Steve. I won't spoil things by saying which is which as that would be cheating. I can easily spot each.

But a question. How did you display the images for your comparison? A digital file is not an image without being processed. For comparisons when using Adobe products their "standard" profiles are used a lot for a good basis for comparison.

And since I was a bit stupid and used auto exposure there is a slight difference in exposure which can fool you. I used the white patch on the Datacolor card to match luminance between the images. The image on your left had to be raised by 0.2 stop.



--
... Mike
... https://www.flickr.com/photos/198581502@N02/

 

[DenverSteve]

I obtained the RAW/DNG files from Rodenmg to evaluate the unaltered images on my large studio monitor. I have made this composite image of all three side-by-side, SOOC and unedited in any way other than to composite them and post. Everyone is viewing from different monitors and devices & will have different personal preferences, but here you can see the three images: AWB, Grey Card and Expodisk in their natural state. I did get Rodenmg's permission to post these here. I will post which is which later today.

In my opinion all three are perfectly acceptable from a RAW image and easily color graded to any preference especially for images taken in shadow.

In the meantime, you look and decide which you think is which.......... happy viewing.


AWB, Grey Card, Expodisk........ which is which........ you decide.......

Thanks for adding this Steve. I won't spoil things by saying which is which as that would be cheating. I can easily spot each.

But a question. How did you display the images for your comparison? A digital file is not an image without being processed. For comparisons when using Adobe products their "standard" profiles are used a lot for a good basis for comparison.

And since I was a bit stupid and used auto exposure there is a slight difference in exposure which can fool you. I used the white patch on the Datacolor card to match luminance between the images. The image on your left had to be raised by 0.2 stop.

I opened the three files in DNG format to my desktop, cropped each to a close-as-I can size, cropped the images to size, placed the side-by-side, took a screenshot of the composite and then uploaded to DPR.

--
It's just my educated opinion. Don't get bent out of shape.
Steve

 

[DenverSteve]

Since no one has inquired about the photos I'll post the image information.

There is no right, wrong or best. If you look at the white coat, the grey card is the whitest/cleanest of the three. Since both the other two are fine, you could pick whether you want to add an accessory, like the Expodisc or go with AWB since neither present the white as "white" and both would require minimal processing to get to where the grey card does. In the end it is what works best for each photographer. For my money, the AWB is best as I don't have to have any cards or discs.

On the left - Expodisc / In the middle - AWB / On the right - Grey Card




EXPODISC AWB GREY CARD

--
It's just my educated opinion. Don't get bent out of shape.
Steve

 

[Chris Dodkin]

As illustrated above, AWB is a poor third, and I no longer use it on the M11.

You drop $10k on a camera and $5-10k on a lens, then take the time to go somewhere to shoot, least you can do is ensure you get accurate WB with an extra 2 mins of effort in the field.

People do have different standards of acceptability however - as demonstrated by the plethora of magenta tinted M11 images online.

 

[DenverSteve]

As illustrated above, AWB is a poor third, and I no longer use it on the M11.

I noticed you didn't even try to guess which was which. There is no winner or "distant third". I gave you the chance to show your stuff and .............. nothing.

 

[Chris Dodkin]

As illustrated above, AWB is a poor third, and I no longer use it on the M11.

I noticed you didn't even try to guess which was which. There is no winner or "distant third". I gave you the chance to show your stuff and .............. nothing.

Yep, I noticed your attempted troll post - been around way too long to fall for that cr@p ;-)

 

[DenverSteve]

As illustrated above, AWB is a poor third, and I no longer use it on the M11.

I noticed you didn't even try to guess which was which. There is no winner or "distant third". I gave you the chance to show your stuff and .............. nothing.

Yep, I noticed your attempted troll post - been around way too long to fall for that cr@p ;-)

Actually, you're wrong again. I got permission to post the three photos, untouched for the purpose for people to predict which photo they thought was which. Just like every poll posted herein, except opinion instead of poll. You chose not to say anything until after the reveaI. However, after the reveal, you chose to troll the post by pontificating that you knew all along, but still chose to boast on the Expodisc which was certainly NOT the cleanest of the lot. If you read my posts about this I've clearly stated that none are out of the bounds of acceptability and all are good shots which can be edited in post as - all images can benefit from . On the other hand you seem to have an affinity for promoting the Expodisc instead of photographic education and experience, like the bulk of professionals do. In other words, we don't need things like the Expodisc which may be beneficial to those who don't know how to do simple white balances with anything at hand. I know a troll when I see one. Thanks for the laugh.

--
It's just my educated opinion. Don't get bent out of shape.
Steve