Advice needed

[s_grins]

Do you have a headache? I would

To add to a pile of of opinions, there is one more.

You might want to check "SilkyPix" that has very specific interface and produces well balanced results without over editing the photo.

 

[Zeee]

Do you have a headache? I would

To add to a pile of of opinions, there is one more.

You might want to check "SilkyPix" that has very specific interface and produces well balanced results without over editing the photo.

I used it many years ago. Nice colours and IQ. Interface takes getting use to.

 

[TorsteinH]

I have always been a Photoshop and Lightroom user. I tend to use Lightroom only for the Library module, relying on Photoshop for image processing. I have been using Photoshop ever since PS2.5, so I am well acquainted with the program.

I have, however, flirted with other software. I had a brief fling with ON1, but found it totally unintuitive and quickly decided that it was not for me.

I have heard good things about DxO software, especially with regard to noise reduction and lens corrections, and I am thinking of giving it a try. I do, however, find the different modules on offer confusing. For a start:

do I need Photolab 9 or PureRaw 5?

are DxO noise reduction and lens correction really superior to that found in Adobe products?

do I need to purchase Viewpoint 4, FilmPack 8 and Nik Collection7 separately? Or are their functions included in PL9 and/or PR5?

Advice from seasoned DxO users as to what I need to buy would be useful.

I have used Photolab for a few years, since I left Adobe after LR6, and I'm quite happy with it.

In my view, you need Photolab, Viewpoint 4, and FilmPack 8 to have a complete RAW development set. So when you sum up the cost, it's not cheap.

PR5 is only a small subset of Photolab, so you have no use for it if you use PhotoLab. Nik Collection I have never owned, except for the free version 3 from Google.

Coming from a bit editor like PS, I guess it will be a very different experience and quite a bit of new learning. But if you work through it, you can achieve some very good results!

Why don't you download the trial version and give it a try?

 

[Digital Nigel]

Coming from a bit editor like PS, I guess it will be a very different experience and quite a bit of new learning. But if you work through it, you can achieve some very good results!

That's a very important point — you need a different mindset to use PL's editing tools compared to a layer-based pixel editor like Photoshop. I find the PL approach much quicker and easier overall, but some other things are readily done in PS, but impossible in PL.

 

[Greaves]

Many thanks for all the inputs, far more than I expected. It has been very thought provoking and raised a number of interesting points.

I definitely have a preference for post processing in Photoshop rather than Lightroom. The various posts pointing out that PL9 is not a pixel processor, and has more in common with Lightroom, has certainly given me something to think about.

I am now wondering whether I would be better off using PR5 for its noise reduction and lens corrections as an initial step, before continuing to edit in Photoshop.

I didn't mention that I am almost exclusively a Canon shooter, though I haven't used Canon's own DPP software for years. Has this improved? one would think that DPP should be best suited for delivering good colour, dealing with noise generated by its sensors , and applying lens corrections. But when I used it - admittedly years ago - I found it slow and unresponsive.

Although I am now thinking more in terms of PR5, the idea of taking advantage of the free trial of PL9 does make a lot of sense.

 

[MarshallG]

First, PureRAW is built-into PhotoLab, so do not buy PureRAW if you buy PhotoLab.

I am able to use PhotoLab for 100% of my editing now, from culling to final watermarked output. I don't use Photoshop at all. It depends on what your editing techniques are.

For me, in PhotoLab, the steps I take are:

1. White balance and color correct
2. Exposure correct
3. Crop
4. Rotate if needed
5. Local adjustments, like removing warts, whitening teeth, cloning out hair, etc.
6. Apply noise reduction
7. Output scaled, watermarked jpegs

Some people do different kinds of editing, so PhotoLab is not one size fits all for everyone.

 

[Digital Nigel]

Many thanks for all the inputs, far more than I expected. It has been very thought provoking and raised a number of interesting points.

I definitely have a preference for post processing in Photoshop rather than Lightroom. The various posts pointing out that PL9 is not a pixel processor, and has more in common with Lightroom, has certainly given me something to think about.

I am now wondering whether I would be better off using PR5 for its noise reduction and lens corrections as an initial step, before continuing to edit in Photoshop.

I didn't mention that I am almost exclusively a Canon shooter, though I haven't used Canon's own DPP software for years. Has this improved? one would think that DPP should be best suited for delivering good colour, dealing with noise generated by its sensors , and applying lens corrections. But when I used it - admittedly years ago - I found it slow and unresponsive.

Although I am now thinking more in terms of PR5, the idea of taking advantage of the free trial of PL9 does make a lot of sense.

Yes, I’d suggest you take advantage of the 30-day free trial (it really is free — no credit card required). That will let you test both the features that are common to both PR5 and PL9, and the additional editing features in PL.

A few controls worth checking out that you may not have encountered before:

• Smart Lighting. This is a very easy way of balancing light and dark areas, particularly in backlit scenes. You can have it focus on specific areas (mainly faces). It’s definitely worth playing with it in high contrast scenes.
• PL has quite a powerful tone curve tool, including a useful picker. It’s worth watching videos and playing with it.
• Control points and lines in local adjustments. These are a very quick, easy way of masking areas based on brightness and colour, with varying levels of specificity. You can then apply many other controls to the resulting soft masks. Masks can also be duplicated and inverted. Although not as powerful as PS, these tools are quicker and easier to use.
• Everyone is talking about the new AI masks, but PL’s older masking tools are more powerful than many people think.
• You don’t have to limit yourself to the supplied presets. If you come up with a set of edits that you really like, and may want to re-use on other images, just save them as another preset. You can choose any preset to be automatically applied to new images.
• PL has traditionally not shown the effect on screen of the AI NR tools (because they can be slow), but PL9 adds the option of displaying using DeepPRIME. However, unless you have a very fast machine, I’d advise against using this option. Use the Loupe tool instead.
• Make sure you export images before evaluating and comparing the results of your edits, as the full PL processing is only applied on export, not on-screen. You might find that an image that looks mediocre on-screen looks great after exporting.

 

[tbcass]

• Everyone is talking about the new AI masks, but PL’s older masking tools are more powerful than many people think.

That may be true but I found them convoluted and tricky to use so I gave up due to my lack of patience. I will welcome AI masking if it's as good as what I have in Topaz Photo.

 

[ishwanu]

For me, in PhotoLab, the steps I take are:

1. White balance and color correct
2. Exposure correct
3. Crop
4. Rotate if needed
5. Local adjustments, like removing warts, whitening teeth, cloning out hair, etc.
6. Apply noise reduction
7. Output scaled, watermarked jpegs

Most of those things can be shifted around as a matter of preference (PhotoLab uses its own order of operations during export). However, one should definitely crop and rotate before applying other geometric or cloning type of changes. Otherwise, bits and pieces of the image can end up in the wrong places.

 

[Digital Nigel]

For me, in PhotoLab, the steps I take are:

1. White balance and color correct
2. Exposure correct
3. Crop
4. Rotate if needed
5. Local adjustments, like removing warts, whitening teeth, cloning out hair, etc.
6. Apply noise reduction
7. Output scaled, watermarked jpegs

Most of those things can be shifted around as a matter of preference (PhotoLab uses its own order of operations during export). However, one should definitely crop and rotate before applying other geometric or cloning type of changes. Otherwise, bits and pieces of the image can end up in the wrong places.

I don’t think cropping ever causes a problem, as all adjustments are relative to the full, uncropped frame; I’m not sure about rotation. But volumetric deformation correction does need to be done first.

 

[MarshallG]

For me, in PhotoLab, the steps I take are:

1. White balance and color correct
2. Exposure correct
3. Crop
4. Rotate if needed
5. Local adjustments, like removing warts, whitening teeth, cloning out hair, etc.
6. Apply noise reduction
7. Output scaled, watermarked jpegs

Most of those things can be shifted around as a matter of preference (PhotoLab uses its own order of operations during export). However, one should definitely crop and rotate before applying other geometric or cloning type of changes. Otherwise, bits and pieces of the image can end up in the wrong places.

I don’t think cropping ever causes a problem, as all adjustments are relative to the full, uncropped frame; I’m not sure about rotation. But volumetric deformation correction does need to be done first.

I don’t know the difference between lens correction and “volumetric deformation correction” so maybe I need a little help there. I thought it just auto-applies the lens correction when you open the file and that’s all I do. Is this a new PL9 thing?

 

[Digital Nigel]

• Everyone is talking about the new AI masks, but PL’s older masking tools are more powerful than many people think.

That may be true but I found them convoluted and tricky to use so I gave up due to my lack of patience.

You missed a lot of power, and had to use inferior tools instead, such as the very primitive cloning tool in FastStone rather than the far better PL ReTouch tool. It really is worth taking the time to learn the PL tools, so all the edits are in the same non-destructive workflow. I use FastStone a lot, but not for editing images.

I will welcome AI masking if it's as good as what I have in Topaz Photo.

I think PL9’s AI masking is much more powerful, but therefore takes quite a bit more learning.

 

[Digital Nigel]

For me, in PhotoLab, the steps I take are:

1. White balance and color correct
2. Exposure correct
3. Crop
4. Rotate if needed
5. Local adjustments, like removing warts, whitening teeth, cloning out hair, etc.
6. Apply noise reduction
7. Output scaled, watermarked jpegs

Most of those things can be shifted around as a matter of preference (PhotoLab uses its own order of operations during export). However, one should definitely crop and rotate before applying other geometric or cloning type of changes. Otherwise, bits and pieces of the image can end up in the wrong places.

I don’t think cropping ever causes a problem, as all adjustments are relative to the full, uncropped frame; I’m not sure about rotation. But volumetric deformation correction does need to be done first.

I don’t know the difference between lens correction and “volumetric deformation correction” so maybe I need a little help there. I thought it just auto-applies the lens correction when you open the file and that’s all I do. Is this a new PL9 thing?

No, it's nothing to do with lens correction, and has been in PL for many years if you also have ViewPoint. It adjusts wide angle images to correct for the fattening of people at the edges of the frame. This happens with all wide angle images, and isn't a lens fault.

 

[MarshallG]

Many thanks for all the inputs, far more than I expected. It has been very thought provoking and raised a number of interesting points.

I definitely have a preference for post processing in Photoshop rather than Lightroom. The various posts pointing out that PL9 is not a pixel processor, and has more in common with Lightroom, has certainly given me something to think about.

I am now wondering whether I would be better off using PR5 for its noise reduction and lens corrections as an initial step, before continuing to edit in Photoshop.

I didn't mention that I am almost exclusively a Canon shooter, though I haven't used Canon's own DPP software for years. Has this improved? one would think that DPP should be best suited for delivering good colour, dealing with noise generated by its sensors , and applying lens corrections. But when I used it - admittedly years ago - I found it slow and unresponsive.

Although I am now thinking more in terms of PR5, the idea of taking advantage of the free trial of PL9 does make a lot of sense.

PhotoLab has “local adjustments” with a clone tool and brushes that can apply corrections to specific areas in a photo.



For me, those features are enough that I don’t use photoshop at all and I just export from PhotoLab straight to final jpeg.



Like you, I used Canon DPPro for years, as the colors are great. But it became super slow. From what I’ve heard, Canon FINALLY compiled it for the M-series processors, making it much faster.



I know from my own experience that moving to a new tool is a big effort and it’s time consuming. The first thing I saw in PhotoLab is that all of the sliders are real-time. You can make tiny tweaks to white balance or shadows and get instant feedback. DPP couldn’t do that.



I think you’ll be very happy with PhotoLab. I know it takes an hour or two of YouTube videos to get the hang of it but it’s worth it. DxO has some good videos and so does Rob Trek.

 

[MarshallG]

For me, in PhotoLab, the steps I take are:

1. White balance and color correct
2. Exposure correct
3. Crop
4. Rotate if needed
5. Local adjustments, like removing warts, whitening teeth, cloning out hair, etc.
6. Apply noise reduction
7. Output scaled, watermarked jpegs

Most of those things can be shifted around as a matter of preference (PhotoLab uses its own order of operations during export). However, one should definitely crop and rotate before applying other geometric or cloning type of changes. Otherwise, bits and pieces of the image can end up in the wrong places.

I don’t think cropping ever causes a problem, as all adjustments are relative to the full, uncropped frame; I’m not sure about rotation. But volumetric deformation correction does need to be done first.

I don’t know the difference between lens correction and “volumetric deformation correction” so maybe I need a little help there. I thought it just auto-applies the lens correction when you open the file and that’s all I do. Is this a new PL9 thing?

No, it's nothing to do with lens correction, and has been in PL for many years if you also have ViewPoint. It adjusts wide angle images to correct for the fattening of people at the edges of the frame. This happens with all wide angle images, and isn't a lens fault.

Thanks!!! I’ll be on the lookout for ViewPoint on Black Friday.

 

[ishwanu]

For me, in PhotoLab, the steps I take are:

1. White balance and color correct
2. Exposure correct
3. Crop
4. Rotate if needed
5. Local adjustments, like removing warts, whitening teeth, cloning out hair, etc.
6. Apply noise reduction
7. Output scaled, watermarked jpegs

Most of those things can be shifted around as a matter of preference (PhotoLab uses its own order of operations during export). However, one should definitely crop and rotate before applying other geometric or cloning type of changes. Otherwise, bits and pieces of the image can end up in the wrong places.

I don’t think cropping ever causes a problem, as all adjustments are relative to the full, uncropped frame; I’m not sure about rotation. But volumetric deformation correction does need to be done first.

There was something that caused shifting for me in the past if done in the wrong order. It made me very wary, but it might have been corrected in later versions, so I should test again. It wasn't about volume deformation because I've never had that.

I just now tried applying a control point and then rotating (with v7). The effect of the control point shifted. Perspective correction also shifted it. The lesson for me remains to finalize all the geometric stuff early on, just in case.

 

[Matt2134]

• Everyone is talking about the new AI masks, but PL’s older masking tools are more powerful than many people think.

That may be true but I found them convoluted and tricky to use so I gave up due to my lack of patience. I will welcome AI masking if it's as good as what I have in Topaz Photo.

I may be an outlier, but I think you get nicer more natural results with the older masking tools. They are actually what I like most about PL, and I prefer them to AI masking!

 

[Zeee]

Many thanks for all the inputs, far more than I expected. It has been very thought provoking and raised a number of interesting points.

I definitely have a preference for post processing in Photoshop rather than Lightroom. The various posts pointing out that PL9 is not a pixel processor, and has more in common with Lightroom, has certainly given me something to think about.

Yes PL9 is closer to LrC. Over the years I have read some PL users also like to have Affinity but who knows what is happening with that now. There are others out there.

I am now wondering whether I would be better off using PR5 for its noise reduction and lens corrections as an initial step, before continuing to edit in Photoshop.

That is personal choice. You'd have to test it.

I didn't mention that I am almost exclusively a Canon shooter, though I haven't used Canon's own DPP software for years. Has this improved? one would think that DPP should be best suited for delivering good colour, dealing with noise generated by its sensors , and applying lens corrections. But when I used it - admittedly years ago - I found it slow and unresponsive.

DPP has not changed much. The only thing I miss is not having DLO. Colours are subjective and everyone has their own preference. I use DPP all of the time. I pre-cull using Quick Check to delete unwanted files before importing LrC. I could l not be bothered to start with DPP, create a TIFF and send files for additional editing. I once did that. Started in PS and sent files to PS for finishing but it was nightmare for event editing. That is was got me into Lightroom.

Although I am now thinking more in terms of PR5, the idea of taking advantage of the free trial of PL9 does make a lot of sense.

You have try things out.

 

[Digital Nigel]

For me, in PhotoLab, the steps I take are:

1. White balance and color correct
2. Exposure correct
3. Crop
4. Rotate if needed
5. Local adjustments, like removing warts, whitening teeth, cloning out hair, etc.
6. Apply noise reduction
7. Output scaled, watermarked jpegs

Most of those things can be shifted around as a matter of preference (PhotoLab uses its own order of operations during export). However, one should definitely crop and rotate before applying other geometric or cloning type of changes. Otherwise, bits and pieces of the image can end up in the wrong places.

I don’t think cropping ever causes a problem, as all adjustments are relative to the full, uncropped frame; I’m not sure about rotation. But volumetric deformation correction does need to be done first.

I don’t know the difference between lens correction and “volumetric deformation correction” so maybe I need a little help there. I thought it just auto-applies the lens correction when you open the file and that’s all I do. Is this a new PL9 thing?

No, it's nothing to do with lens correction, and has been in PL for many years if you also have ViewPoint. It adjusts wide angle images to correct for the fattening of people at the edges of the frame. This happens with all wide angle images, and isn't a lens fault.

Thanks!!! I’ll be on the lookout for ViewPoint on Black Friday.

You'll probably get a good deal on it, as it wasn't updated this year. DxO tends to give much better discounts on older releases. So VP5 will get a better discount than FP8.

Once you install it, you need to start it up once to enter the code. Thereafter, you can ignore the stand-alone product, never using or updating it, as the tools are built into PL, and can all be accessed as part of the normal image editing process.

As the VP tools change the shape of the image, it’s best to use them before doing any retouching or local adjustments.

 

[Digital Nigel]

For me, in PhotoLab, the steps I take are:

1. White balance and color correct
2. Exposure correct
3. Crop
4. Rotate if needed
5. Local adjustments, like removing warts, whitening teeth, cloning out hair, etc.
6. Apply noise reduction
7. Output scaled, watermarked jpegs

Most of those things can be shifted around as a matter of preference (PhotoLab uses its own order of operations during export). However, one should definitely crop and rotate before applying other geometric or cloning type of changes. Otherwise, bits and pieces of the image can end up in the wrong places.

I don’t think cropping ever causes a problem, as all adjustments are relative to the full, uncropped frame; I’m not sure about rotation. But volumetric deformation correction does need to be done first.

There was something that caused shifting for me in the past if done in the wrong order. It made me very wary, but it might have been corrected in later versions, so I should test again. It wasn't about volume deformation because I've never had that.

I just now tried applying a control point and then rotating (with v7). The effect of the control point shifted. Perspective correction also shifted it. The lesson for me remains to finalize all the geometric stuff early on, just in case.

Yes, I think that’s good practice: do all geometric changes before retouching or local adjustments.

I think cropping is the one shape-changing thing you can do at any time, and you can export several different crops from the same image without problems.