Ricoh adds two more compacts, where is OM?

[roberthd12]

I do not presume to know all the inner-workings of either Ricoh or OM System, or their business strategies. However, as a longtime Olympus Pen user (E-P1, 2, 3, 5 and E-PL1), I sure wish OM would get back into the compact camera business.

Meanwhile, Ricoh is adding two more compacts to the GR IV line. (Link below.) Coming soon are a monochrome version and an HDF. While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The E-P7, a solid camera, is not a comepeitive option due to age and lack of availability. OK, everyone can attack now!

https://petapixel.com/2025/10/20/ri...camera-built-for-black-and-white-photography/

 

[HicHic]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

 

[cba_melbourne]

I do not presume to know all the inner-workings of either Ricoh or OM System, or their business strategies. However, as a longtime Olympus Pen user (E-P1, 2, 3, 5 and E-PL1), I sure wish OM would get back into the compact camera business.

Meanwhile, Ricoh is adding two more compacts to the GR IV line. (Link below.) Coming soon are a monochrome version and an HDF. While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The E-P7, a solid camera, is not a comepeitive option due to age and lack of availability. OK, everyone can attack now!

https://petapixel.com/2025/10/20/ri...camera-built-for-black-and-white-photography/

Ricoh make their money with copiers and printers. They have 90,000 employees and make a little over 13 billion US$ revenue. Their camera divisions (Ricoh and Pentax) are tiny minuscule in comparison.

Compare that to OM, which essentially only does cameras, and struggles to just survive. No rich parents anymore to foot the bills or -god forbid- losses.

 

[HicHic]

I do not presume to know all the inner-workings of either Ricoh or OM System, or their business strategies. However, as a longtime Olympus Pen user (E-P1, 2, 3, 5 and E-PL1), I sure wish OM would get back into the compact camera business.

Meanwhile, Ricoh is adding two more compacts to the GR IV line. (Link below.) Coming soon are a monochrome version and an HDF. While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The E-P7, a solid camera, is not a comepeitive option due to age and lack of availability. OK, everyone can attack now!

https://petapixel.com/2025/10/20/ri...camera-built-for-black-and-white-photography/

Ricoh make their money with copiers and printers. They have 90,000 employees and make a little over 13 billion US$ revenue. Their camera divisions (Ricoh and Pentax) are tiny minuscule in comparison.

Compare that to OM, which essentially only does cameras, and struggles to just survive. No rich parents anymore to foot the bills or -god forbid- losses.

It's a tough business.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

The GR was larger than the GM series from Panasonic but the GRIV is now back very much to the size of the smaller sensor GRDIV size and much the same size as the GM bodies are.

The main difference is that the GRIV is a folding prime lensed aps-c sensor camera with a fixed prime lens of 28mm FF fov eq. Whereas the GM bodies have a M4/3 lens mount and technically can use any lenses that can utilise any lenses that will fit on that mount.

So the end market is quite different and only matches over a very small area of fairly wide angle compact lenses. The GM series remains much more versatile.



Panasonic of course makes a compact, quite capable, and affordable, camera in the form of its G100D. Which is probably cheaper than the GRIV and also has an excellent built in evf.

 

[HicHic]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

The GR was larger than the GM series from Panasonic but the GRIV is now back very much to the size of the smaller sensor GRDIV size and much the same size as the GM bodies are.

The main difference is that the GRIV is a folding prime lensed aps-c sensor camera with a fixed prime lens of 28mm FF fov eq. Whereas the GM bodies have a M4/3 lens mount and technically can use any lenses that can utilise any lenses that will fit on that mount.

So the end market is quite different and only matches over a very small area of fairly wide angle compact lenses. The GM series remains much more versatile.

Panasonic of course makes a compact, quite capable, and affordable, camera in the form of its G100D. Which is probably cheaper than the GRIV and also has an excellent built in evf.

I see, so it is aimed at a different market since it's an ILC.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

The GR was larger than the GM series from Panasonic but the GRIV is now back very much to the size of the smaller sensor GRDIV size and much the same size as the GM bodies are.

The main difference is that the GRIV is a folding prime lensed aps-c sensor camera with a fixed prime lens of 28mm FF fov eq. Whereas the GM bodies have a M4/3 lens mount and technically can use any lenses that can utilise any lenses that will fit on that mount.

So the end market is quite different and only matches over a very small area of fairly wide angle compact lenses. The GM series remains much more versatile.

Panasonic of course makes a compact, quite capable, and affordable, camera in the form of its G100D. Which is probably cheaper than the GRIV and also has an excellent built in evf.

I see, so it is aimed at a different market since it's an ILC.

The advantage of an ILC is that it can be a camera body with many lens choices or it can be a camera body that permanently "lives" with just one lens attached.

I made a point of setting up two "spare" GM1 bodies each with a lens attached to mimic the two GRIII body styles: the GRIII and GRIIIx. They both easily fit together in a very small shoulder bag.

Once a long term GRD/GR user I swapped to the GM1 so that I could have a "GR" body with lenses of my choice. After my 12-32 kit lens my first lens purchases were the Olympus 12/2.0 and the PL Nocticron 42.5/1.2. I have recently purchased a GRIV for old times sake.

--
Tom Caldwell

 

[HicHic]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

The GR was larger than the GM series from Panasonic but the GRIV is now back very much to the size of the smaller sensor GRDIV size and much the same size as the GM bodies are.

The main difference is that the GRIV is a folding prime lensed aps-c sensor camera with a fixed prime lens of 28mm FF fov eq. Whereas the GM bodies have a M4/3 lens mount and technically can use any lenses that can utilise any lenses that will fit on that mount.

So the end market is quite different and only matches over a very small area of fairly wide angle compact lenses. The GM series remains much more versatile.

Panasonic of course makes a compact, quite capable, and affordable, camera in the form of its G100D. Which is probably cheaper than the GRIV and also has an excellent built in evf.

I see, so it is aimed at a different market since it's an ILC.

The advantage of an ILC is that it can be a camera body with many lens choices or it can be a camera body that permanently "lives" with just one lens attached.

I made a point of setting up two "spare" GM1 bodies each with a lens attached to mimic the two GRIII body styles: the GRIII and GRIIIx. They both easily fit together in a very small shoulder bag.

Once a long term GRD/GR user I swapped to the GM1 so that I could have a "GR" body with lenses of my choice. After my 12-32 kit lens my first lens purchases were the Olympus 12/2.0 and the PL Nocticron 42.5/1.2. I have recently purchased a GRIV for old times sake.

Is there not an advantage to the non-ILC GR cameras' ability to retract the lens - making it thinner and more pocketable when not in use?

 

[cathal gantly]

Is there not an advantage to the non-ILC GR cameras' ability to retract the lens - making it thinner and more pocketable when not in use?

It's an advantage, or a disadvantage, depending on your perspective. I have an EP-M1 and I'm looking for the 17mm 2.8 to use exactly as you describe.

The non interchangeable lens compact does have issues though. For a start, the fixed lens has to be the right lens for you. Is that 28mm, 35mm, 40mm? Everyone will have their own take. But the elephant in the room is that collapsible lens can such dirt onto the sensor but can't be taken off to clean it, outside of a service centre.

Pancake lenses serve the same purpose, without the dust issue, and I'd love to see a revised 17mm 2.8 and the four thirds 25mm f2.8 released for micro four thirds. Do a 45mm pancake and you've got a trio that would be very desirable as a compact, everyday system.

Personally, as much as I like camera such as the GR, or X100 series, I would struggle with their price, and restrictions of the fixed lens. Now if OMDS produced an updated EP-L9 with 20mp and an integrated viewfinder, I would find that very hard to resist.

As an aside, OMDS have stated that they will not make a fixed lens 4/3rds camera, and Panasonic have stopped the (superb) LX100 series camera.

 

[Cafe Racer]

I do not presume to know all the inner-workings of either Ricoh or OM System, or their business strategies. However, as a longtime Olympus Pen user (E-P1, 2, 3, 5 and E-PL1), I sure wish OM would get back into the compact camera business.

Meanwhile, Ricoh is adding two more compacts to the GR IV line. (Link below.) Coming soon are a monochrome version and an HDF. While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...

OM does make a compact camera. I don't think it stands a chance of taking away sales from Ricoh and Fujifilm!

and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The E-P7, a solid camera, is not a comepeitive option due to age and lack of availability. OK, everyone can attack now!

https://petapixel.com/2025/10/20/ri...camera-built-for-black-and-white-photography/

--
Roberthd12
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertdicks2/

 

[gary0319]

I do not presume to know all the inner-workings of either Ricoh or OM System, or their business strategies. However, as a longtime Olympus Pen user (E-P1, 2, 3, 5 and E-PL1), I sure wish OM would get back into the compact camera business.

Meanwhile, Ricoh is adding two more compacts to the GR IV line. (Link below.) Coming soon are a monochrome version and an HDF. While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...

OM does make a compact camera. I don't think it stands a chance of taking away sales from Ricoh and Fujifilm!

and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The E-P7, a solid camera, is not a comepeitive option due to age and lack of availability. OK, everyone can attack now!

https://petapixel.com/2025/10/20/ri...camera-built-for-black-and-white-photography/

The TG7 is my go to camera when small and unobtrusive is wanted. Small enough to fit in my jeans pocket, fixed lens with 25-100mm internal zoom, focus stacking for macro, pro capture, in-camera panorama, 4K video, and more. $599 in the US. Small12mp sensor but still good enough for 12x16 prints. It makes a nice pocketable add-on to my larger OM kits, or simply for casual family and friends outings.

 

[Cafe Racer]

I do not presume to know all the inner-workings of either Ricoh or OM System, or their business strategies. However, as a longtime Olympus Pen user (E-P1, 2, 3, 5 and E-PL1), I sure wish OM would get back into the compact camera business.

Meanwhile, Ricoh is adding two more compacts to the GR IV line. (Link below.) Coming soon are a monochrome version and an HDF. While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...

OM does make a compact camera. I don't think it stands a chance of taking away sales from Ricoh and Fujifilm!

The TG7 is my go to camera when small and unobtrusive is wanted. Small enough to fit in my jeans pocket, fixed lens with 25-100mm internal zoom, focus stacking for macro, pro capture, in-camera panorama, 4K video, and more. $599 in the US. Small12mp sensor but still good enough for 12x16 prints. It makes a nice pocketable add-on to my larger OM kits, or simply for casual family and friends outings.

Do you think there's a cult like following that has been built up around the TG7 that makes it a direct competitor the GR and X100 cameras?

 

[gary0319]

I do not presume to know all the inner-workings of either Ricoh or OM System, or their business strategies. However, as a longtime Olympus Pen user (E-P1, 2, 3, 5 and E-PL1), I sure wish OM would get back into the compact camera business.

Meanwhile, Ricoh is adding two more compacts to the GR IV line. (Link below.) Coming soon are a monochrome version and an HDF. While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...

OM does make a compact camera. I don't think it stands a chance of taking away sales from Ricoh and Fujifilm!

and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The E-P7, a solid camera, is not a comepeitive option due to age and lack of availability. OK, everyone can attack now!

https://petapixel.com/2025/10/20/ri...camera-built-for-black-and-white-photography/

The TG7 is my go to camera when small and unobtrusive is wanted. Small enough to fit in my jeans pocket, fixed lens with 25-100mm internal zoom, focus stacking for macro, pro capture, in-camera panorama, 4K video, and more. $599 in the US. Small12mp sensor but still good enough for 12x16 prints. It makes a nice pocketable add-on to my larger OM kits, or simply for casual family and friends outings.

Do you think there's a cult like following that has been built up around the TG7 that makes it a direct competitor the GR and X100 cameras?

Not any cults that I'm aware of, except perhaps among those that use the TG series for diving, However, quite a few members of my camera club have discovered the TG series as a grab and go or stuff in the corner of the ILC kit bag that gets images way better than one would have thought..... and it's just a fun thing to have with you.

I doubt it is any threat to the Ricoh or Fuji offerings. Perhaps a better comparison might be the Sony ZV or RX100 1" compacts.

 

[roberthd12]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

Re sensor size, he Fujifilm X-Half with a smaller sensor, plus a pretty small body, is apparently quite a hit. OM could get into the conversation by releasing something that is more price-competitive to than the GR or X100 series, and they could spend some $$$ on marketing to let people know that the image quality of M43 is excellent, and that the features exceed those of the Ricoh or Fuji. Just a thought. I know it won't happen.

 

[Cafe Racer]

I do not presume to know all the inner-workings of either Ricoh or OM System, or their business strategies. However, as a longtime Olympus Pen user (E-P1, 2, 3, 5 and E-PL1), I sure wish OM would get back into the compact camera business.

Meanwhile, Ricoh is adding two more compacts to the GR IV line. (Link below.) Coming soon are a monochrome version and an HDF. While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...

OM does make a compact camera. I don't think it stands a chance of taking away sales from Ricoh and Fujifilm!

and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The E-P7, a solid camera, is not a comepeitive option due to age and lack of availability. OK, everyone can attack now!

https://petapixel.com/2025/10/20/ri...camera-built-for-black-and-white-photography/

The TG7 is my go to camera when small and unobtrusive is wanted. Small enough to fit in my jeans pocket, fixed lens with 25-100mm internal zoom, focus stacking for macro, pro capture, in-camera panorama, 4K video, and more. $599 in the US. Small12mp sensor but still good enough for 12x16 prints. It makes a nice pocketable add-on to my larger OM kits, or simply for casual family and friends outings.

Do you think there's a cult like following that has been built up around the TG7 that makes it a direct competitor the GR and X100 cameras?

Not any cults that I'm aware of, except perhaps among those that use the TG series for diving, However, quite a few members of my camera club have discovered the TG series as a grab and go or stuff in the corner of the ILC kit bag that gets images way better than one would have thought..... and it's just a fun thing to have with you.

I doubt it is any threat to the Ricoh or Fuji offerings.

I doubt it too.

Perhaps a better comparison might be the Sony ZV or RX100 1" compacts.

 

[cba_melbourne]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

The GR was larger than the GM series from Panasonic but the GRIV is now back very much to the size of the smaller sensor GRDIV size and much the same size as the GM bodies are.

The main difference is that the GRIV is a folding prime lensed aps-c sensor camera with a fixed prime lens of 28mm FF fov eq. Whereas the GM bodies have a M4/3 lens mount and technically can use any lenses that can utilise any lenses that will fit on that mount.

So the end market is quite different and only matches over a very small area of fairly wide angle compact lenses. The GM series remains much more versatile.

Panasonic of course makes a compact, quite capable, and affordable, camera in the form of its G100D. Which is probably cheaper than the GRIV and also has an excellent built in evf.

I see, so it is aimed at a different market since it's an ILC.

The advantage of an ILC is that it can be a camera body with many lens choices or it can be a camera body that permanently "lives" with just one lens attached.

I made a point of setting up two "spare" GM1 bodies each with a lens attached to mimic the two GRIII body styles: the GRIII and GRIIIx. They both easily fit together in a very small shoulder bag.

Once a long term GRD/GR user I swapped to the GM1 so that I could have a "GR" body with lenses of my choice. After my 12-32 kit lens my first lens purchases were the Olympus 12/2.0 and the PL Nocticron 42.5/1.2. I have recently purchased a GRIV for old times sake.

Is there not an advantage to the non-ILC GR cameras' ability to retract the lens - making it thinner and more pocketable when not in use?

I argue the GM1 with the 14/2.5 pancake attached is more pocketable. See below, the 14/2.5 adds 55g and 20.5mm in thickness to the GM1.

The key difference is, the GR can have just one lens, the GM1 has several dozen lenses you can choose from.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

The GR was larger than the GM series from Panasonic but the GRIV is now back very much to the size of the smaller sensor GRDIV size and much the same size as the GM bodies are.

The main difference is that the GRIV is a folding prime lensed aps-c sensor camera with a fixed prime lens of 28mm FF fov eq. Whereas the GM bodies have a M4/3 lens mount and technically can use any lenses that can utilise any lenses that will fit on that mount.

So the end market is quite different and only matches over a very small area of fairly wide angle compact lenses. The GM series remains much more versatile.

Panasonic of course makes a compact, quite capable, and affordable, camera in the form of its G100D. Which is probably cheaper than the GRIV and also has an excellent built in evf.

I see, so it is aimed at a different market since it's an ILC.

The advantage of an ILC is that it can be a camera body with many lens choices or it can be a camera body that permanently "lives" with just one lens attached.

I made a point of setting up two "spare" GM1 bodies each with a lens attached to mimic the two GRIII body styles: the GRIII and GRIIIx. They both easily fit together in a very small shoulder bag.

Once a long term GRD/GR user I swapped to the GM1 so that I could have a "GR" body with lenses of my choice. After my 12-32 kit lens my first lens purchases were the Olympus 12/2.0 and the PL Nocticron 42.5/1.2. I have recently purchased a GRIV for old times sake.

Is there not an advantage to the non-ILC GR cameras' ability to retract the lens - making it thinner and more pocketable when not in use?

Look I was a stalwart on the Ricoh forum for many years before switching to Panasonic where I found the GM series bodies effectively "a GR with a mount system".

The Ricoh forum was alive with complaints about dust on sensor issues that came from basically pocketing a pocketable camera. My GRD/GR bodies did not have hard-to-fix dust on sensor issues because I did not pocket mine but carried them in a small bag - like I have carried my GM bodies when not in use.

I have recently returned to the Ricoh GR by buying a new GRIV - I have no intention of pocketing it - but just how many fixed prime lens 28mm FF fov eq camera does one need?

Oh .... there is one other fixed prime lens - the GRIIIx. But I have been carrying multiple GM5 compact camera bodies on small bags now for years. I don't have dust on sensor issues with them either.

However the GRD/GR filled another niche - go ahead and pocket yours if you dare.

 

[robgendreau]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

Who would buy the "inferior IQ" version? if you mean a smaller sensor, then the obvious answer is the gazillions who have made the G7Xiii one of the hottest sellers out there right now. Even the earlier version. And RX100's. Compacts are crazy popular now.

OM missed it...whoosh. If they had the E-PL going with say a pancake prime and/or zoom, and the optional EVF, it might do quite well. My E-PL 7 is a better camera than the G7X. An E-PM3 might be even better.

The GR was larger than the GM series from Panasonic but the GRIV is now back very much to the size of the smaller sensor GRDIV size and much the same size as the GM bodies are.

The main difference is that the GRIV is a folding prime lensed aps-c sensor camera with a fixed prime lens of 28mm FF fov eq. Whereas the GM bodies have a M4/3 lens mount and technically can use any lenses that can utilise any lenses that will fit on that mount.

So the end market is quite different and only matches over a very small area of fairly wide angle compact lenses. The GM series remains much more versatile.

Panasonic of course makes a compact, quite capable, and affordable, camera in the form of its G100D. Which is probably cheaper than the GRIV and also has an excellent built in evf.

I see, so it is aimed at a different market since it's an ILC.

The advantage of an ILC is that it can be a camera body with many lens choices or it can be a camera body that permanently "lives" with just one lens attached.

I made a point of setting up two "spare" GM1 bodies each with a lens attached to mimic the two GRIII body styles: the GRIII and GRIIIx. They both easily fit together in a very small shoulder bag.

Once a long term GRD/GR user I swapped to the GM1 so that I could have a "GR" body with lenses of my choice. After my 12-32 kit lens my first lens purchases were the Olympus 12/2.0 and the PL Nocticron 42.5/1.2. I have recently purchased a GRIV for old times sake.

Is there not an advantage to the non-ILC GR cameras' ability to retract the lens - making it thinner and more pocketable when not in use?

Look I was a stalwart on the Ricoh forum for many years before switching to Panasonic where I found the GM series bodies effectively "a GR with a mount system".

The Ricoh forum was alive with complaints about dust on sensor issues that came from basically pocketing a pocketable camera. My GRD/GR bodies did not have hard-to-fix dust on sensor issues because I did not pocket mine but carried them in a small bag - like I have carried my GM bodies when not in use.

That is SO true. Slap a 20mm Panasonic 1.7 on a E-PM3 or a new E-PL and it's a killer combo with many advantages over a Ricoh, sensor aside. And bundle it with the optional EVF...even better.

I have recently returned to the Ricoh GR by buying a new GRIV - I have no intention of pocketing it - but just how many fixed prime lens 28mm FF fov eq camera does one need?

Oh .... there is one other fixed prime lens - the GRIIIx. But I have been carrying multiple GM5 compact camera bodies on small bags now for years. I don't have dust on sensor issues with them either.

However the GRD/GR filled another niche - go ahead and pocket yours if you dare.

Speaking of old Ricoh Pentax...maybe we should be asking why they don't bring back the Pentax Q, speaking of small, and avoiding fixed lens sensor dust

 

[Tom Caldwell]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

The GR was larger than the GM series from Panasonic but the GRIV is now back very much to the size of the smaller sensor GRDIV size and much the same size as the GM bodies are.

The main difference is that the GRIV is a folding prime lensed aps-c sensor camera with a fixed prime lens of 28mm FF fov eq. Whereas the GM bodies have a M4/3 lens mount and technically can use any lenses that can utilise any lenses that will fit on that mount.

So the end market is quite different and only matches over a very small area of fairly wide angle compact lenses. The GM series remains much more versatile.

Panasonic of course makes a compact, quite capable, and affordable, camera in the form of its G100D. Which is probably cheaper than the GRIV and also has an excellent built in evf.

I see, so it is aimed at a different market since it's an ILC.

The advantage of an ILC is that it can be a camera body with many lens choices or it can be a camera body that permanently "lives" with just one lens attached.

I made a point of setting up two "spare" GM1 bodies each with a lens attached to mimic the two GRIII body styles: the GRIII and GRIIIx. They both easily fit together in a very small shoulder bag.

Once a long term GRD/GR user I swapped to the GM1 so that I could have a "GR" body with lenses of my choice. After my 12-32 kit lens my first lens purchases were the Olympus 12/2.0 and the PL Nocticron 42.5/1.2. I have recently purchased a GRIV for old times sake.

Is there not an advantage to the non-ILC GR cameras' ability to retract the lens - making it thinner and more pocketable when not in use?

I argue the GM1 with the 14/2.5 pancake attached is more pocketable. See below, the 14/2.5 adds 55g and 20.5mm in thickness to the GM1.

The key difference is, the GR can have just one lens, the GM1 has several dozen lenses you can choose from.

The latest GRIV is now as physically small as the last GRDIV with the smaller sensor which was actually a more sophisticated camera than the first GR/II bodies with an aps-c sensor.

It was the first GR combined with some ranting on the Ricoh Forum about having multiple GR bodies each with a different lens* that sent me off on a journey into compact GM1 bodies where I could choose the lenses I wished to use with my camera bodies. Then of course I needed more than one GM body so that i could have multiple tiny cameras at the same time. When the GM5 arrived with a usable evf in much the same size body I was in tiny systems camera body heaven. Right up to the present model Ricoh has never made a compact camera body with a fixed inbuilt evf of any description.

* it took many years but eventually Ricoh released a second body with a fixed prime lens of different focal length (GRIIIx). Also note that Ricoh traditionally talks about their lenses as in FF fov equivalents. For example the "28mm" lens in their present GRIV is actually a lens of 18.3mm focal length. Since the original GRD the focal length of the lens has been adjusted to sensor size used to remain at "28mm FF fov eq".

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Tom Caldwell

 

[Tom Caldwell]

While the GR series is fantastic, and I enjoy my GR III, I know that OM could take away some sales from Ricoh (and Fuji's X100 series). OM just needs to get into the compact game again...and spend some $$$ on marketing.

The GRs have a bigger sensor and higher resolution. Who's going to buy an inferior IQ version of the GR? Usually the reason and appeal for M43 is in the overall size, but the GRs are already so tiny. More than small enough. Any smaller and it'll be unnecessarily small and awkward to grip.

Who would buy the "inferior IQ" version? if you mean a smaller sensor, then the obvious answer is the gazillions who have made the G7Xiii one of the hottest sellers out there right now. Even the earlier version. And RX100's. Compacts are crazy popular now.

OM missed it...whoosh. If they had the E-PL going with say a pancake prime and/or zoom, and the optional EVF, it might do quite well. My E-PL 7 is a better camera than the G7X. An E-PM3 might be even better.

The GR was larger than the GM series from Panasonic but the GRIV is now back very much to the size of the smaller sensor GRDIV size and much the same size as the GM bodies are.

The main difference is that the GRIV is a folding prime lensed aps-c sensor camera with a fixed prime lens of 28mm FF fov eq. Whereas the GM bodies have a M4/3 lens mount and technically can use any lenses that can utilise any lenses that will fit on that mount.

So the end market is quite different and only matches over a very small area of fairly wide angle compact lenses. The GM series remains much more versatile.

Panasonic of course makes a compact, quite capable, and affordable, camera in the form of its G100D. Which is probably cheaper than the GRIV and also has an excellent built in evf.

I see, so it is aimed at a different market since it's an ILC.

The advantage of an ILC is that it can be a camera body with many lens choices or it can be a camera body that permanently "lives" with just one lens attached.

I made a point of setting up two "spare" GM1 bodies each with a lens attached to mimic the two GRIII body styles: the GRIII and GRIIIx. They both easily fit together in a very small shoulder bag.

Once a long term GRD/GR user I swapped to the GM1 so that I could have a "GR" body with lenses of my choice. After my 12-32 kit lens my first lens purchases were the Olympus 12/2.0 and the PL Nocticron 42.5/1.2. I have recently purchased a GRIV for old times sake.

Is there not an advantage to the non-ILC GR cameras' ability to retract the lens - making it thinner and more pocketable when not in use?

Look I was a stalwart on the Ricoh forum for many years before switching to Panasonic where I found the GM series bodies effectively "a GR with a mount system".

The Ricoh forum was alive with complaints about dust on sensor issues that came from basically pocketing a pocketable camera. My GRD/GR bodies did not have hard-to-fix dust on sensor issues because I did not pocket mine but carried them in a small bag - like I have carried my GM bodies when not in use.

That is SO true. Slap a 20mm Panasonic 1.7 on a E-PM3 or a new E-PL and it's a killer combo with many advantages over a Ricoh, sensor aside. And bundle it with the optional EVF...even better.

I have recently returned to the Ricoh GR by buying a new GRIV - I have no intention of pocketing it - but just how many fixed prime lens 28mm FF fov eq camera does one need?

Oh .... there is one other fixed prime lens - the GRIIIx. But I have been carrying multiple GM5 compact camera bodies on small bags now for years. I don't have dust on sensor issues with them either.

However the GRD/GR filled another niche - go ahead and pocket yours if you dare.

Speaking of old Ricoh Pentax...maybe we should be asking why they don't bring back the Pentax Q, speaking of small, and avoiding fixed lens sensor dust

As a self confessed Ricoh GRD/GR tragic who tried the Pentax Q, I suggest that they should have simply put a Q-Mount on the GRDIV of the time - it was a far better and more sophisticated camera than the Pentax-Q ever was.

The Q never had a hi-res LCD like the GM series (or the GRDIV for that matter) nor was it touch sensitive. Furthermore the very few native Q-Mount lenses that were available were (often) good optically but made of plastic and expensive. The GM1 and later GM5 with an evf tore the Pentax-Q market to bits.

I don't know but suggest that the Q-mount was only suitable for tiny sensors. Even smaller than the 4/3 sensors no less .... . I suppose we can afford to be a bit snarky about even smaller sensors considering this forum gets some stick on the FF sensor front but surprisingly little from aps-c sensor users - at least not sensor-directly.

However directly competing size-wise with the present Ricoh GRIV is GM1 and GM5 territory.