Will the camera be frozen when going to a very cold place?

[Macto]

This year's holiday, I plan to travel from Harbin from Russia to Eastern European countries, but I checked that the average temperature in Harbin in winter is between -24 °C and -18 °C. The cameras I carry now, such as GR3 and Fuji XA series, Panasonic G100, have never been to such a cold place. I don't know if it will be frozen. Do you have any strong, durable and relatively portable machines to recommend?

 

[a_c_skinner]

My Fuji X-E3 and my old Olympus Pen worked at -30C.

This is my standard reply:

32F/0C isn't cold at all. You'll have no trouble apart from condensation (see below).

Down to -20C (a little below zero F) I've not had much trouble on several skiing trips to Arctic Finland or high Norway at least for the several hours I can enjoy at that temperature.

The camera will be warm when you take it out of your accommodation (unless it is a tent or snow hole).

It will slowly cool but won't condense while outside.

If you put it back in your pocket it will condense (warm and moist in your clothing, camera has cooled), so it needs to be in a sealed plastic bag if you do that. I've had that in the UK this autumn - cool, wet day, Goretex type jacket (which works badly in warm wet conditions, so a bit, ahem, moist inside - the pockets are inside the coat to keep the stuff therein dry), OK going into the pocket, misty coming out.

My advice is to keep the camera in a ziplock bag in a coat pocket, inside out layer if possible and take it out to shoot, then back in the bag and then in the pocket. I've taken several film SLRs, compacts and mirrorless out in -20 and they've carried on working for several hours. The main component that suffers is the battery and that is fairly immune to condensing so you could keep a spare one warm or re warm the main one in an inner pocket.

Going back inside I leave mine in the plastic bag for several hours to warm up slowly. I've debated the how long should you leave it before getting it out again but still think 10 minutes (which some people suggest) is far too short a time. It depends on how cold it got and the humidity in the room you take it out in. I'd definately wait hours at room temp before taking a lens off. Huts selling hot drinks are always VERY humid!

Skiing I generally don't have a computer so there is no point in getting the camera out to unload the shots, I generally simply recharge the battery before I go to bed.

The real problem is going somewhere warm and moist on holiday. You leave cool air-con into warm and moist and the camera steams up just when you want to use it.

https://www.ritzcamera.com/static?id=articles/tips/winter-photo.html

So the GR should be OK, not sure about the X-A1. Why not pop it in the freezer and see? That is about -15C.

Edit: You gear list says X-E5. Take that plus a warm battery but you absolutely MUST have it in a bag when you go indoors, into a car, bus, plane, hut, tent etc. They will be moist from melting snow and a cold camera will condense. DO NOT change the lens in condensing conditions, condensation on the sensor will leave water marks and need a wet clean. I've swapped lenses outdoors in the cold but never in the warm if the camera is cool.

--
Andrew Skinner

 

[yardcoyote]

Most cameras will tolerated being frozen perfectly well. Many of mine have been frozen solid at one time or another. The problem is condensation when thawing them out. Water means trouble with electronics. You need to thaw a frozen camera, or warm up a very cold one, very, very slowly. A camera that has simply been outside for a winter walk can be wrapped in your coat, cold side in, and left in a cool dry place for a few hours, while a packed camera bag, frozen solid in the trunk of a car, must be left *unopened* in the same cool dry place for at least 24 hours and preferably more. The key is to keep the frozen gear well insulted and away from warm air until it is thoroughly thawed.

The nice thing about a small camera like some you list is that you can keep it in a pocket inside your coat close to your body. If you are shooting mostly inside, you can probably avoid it getting cold enough to worry about at all. Otherwise avoid condensation as best you can. If you are shooting outdoors in very cold weather while traveling (something I never do), it might be wise to consult the nature or landscape forums for other tricks to make the slow thawing/warming process more efficient.

 

[a_c_skinner]

I've not heard of (and I think we have asked on here in the past) of a camera failing after exposure to cold, so I think thermal shock isn't an issue. I don't think it takes 24 hours to warm a camera but it does take several hours in a camera bag. I usually just allowed mine to rewarm in a ziplock bag but still for a few hours before exposing it to the warm moist air in our cabins. My X-E3 did slow down a bit after a couple of hours at -30C and if it happened again (it won't we've stopped skiing) I'd keep it in a coat pocket but in a Ziplock bag except when shooting. We were last there in early 2020 and I wanted to see what the camera did in the cold for trips in 2021, 22 etc. You can guess why they didn't happen!

 

[mujana]

This year's holiday, I plan to travel from Harbin from Russia to Eastern European countries, but I checked that the average temperature in Harbin in winter is between -24 °C and -18 °C. The cameras I carry now, such as GR3 and Fuji XA series, Panasonic G100, have never been to such a cold place. I don't know if it will be frozen. Do you have any strong, durable and relatively portable machines to recommend?

Good ideas have been shared in earlier posts.
Just curious (doesn’t matter for your question), you say: “….from Harbin from Russia to…”. Are you leaving from China or from Russia?

 

[yardcoyote]

I'm probably being extra conservative here. 24 hours is an "absolute peace of mind" number. "A few hours" could mean anything, and doesn't take into account ambient conditions indoors. Interpreting it to mean six hours, then opening the bag in a cool house with low humidity and you might be fine, but calling it two or three hours then opening the bag in a hot kitchen with three pots of boiling pasta water could be a mess. I've spent a lot of years living with an IT pro and the strict rule about leaving frozen computer gear in the sealed box for a full 24 hours when possible, and never less than 12, has sunk in, I guess. I always give those precious little computers in my cameras extra benefit of the doubt-- they're packed pretty tightly into those cases and there's even less room for error with so little air circulation.

 

[alcelc]

I was there twice for the freezing experience, both times were around coldest -25°C or lower. One trip was in fine weather (cold but nearly no snowing), and last trip this January had many snowing days (because in the wild more than citiy visiting of earlier trip?).

Our main cameras were Panasonic G85 and GX9, having GX85 be the backup (all are one to two class higher than the entry class G100) in our latest trip. But the earlier trip we used GF3, which should be the great grand dad of G100.

They were all working normal as shooting in the warm regions without any specific protection (e.g. no warm sleeve etc). So were our few non pro class zoom lenses .

However, the cold would make the already energy hungry cameras worse. I carried 4 batteries for G85 (max emptied 3 a day) and 5 for GX9 (usually emptied them all in a day) for total 500~600 shots plus few short video a day . I therefore carried 2 chargers for the G85 and 5 chargers for GX9 to make charging faster every night (3 usual AC chargers plus 2 USB dual slots chargers).

Enjoy your trip .

--
Albert
** Please forgive my typo error.
** Please feel free to download my image and edit it as you like **
About my
G85: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63025800
GX850/GF9: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65326127
GX9: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67648667

 

[jiberlin]

Just try it, put the cameras in your (deep) freezer for some hours and then test them.

 

[a_c_skinner]

I don't think you need worry about warming too rapidly. The camera gear has a significant heat capacity so the inwards will warm relatively slowly hence all you need worry about is camera surfaces below the dew point of the air. We treked snow in and boiled water for drinks and catering and a few hours in a ziplock bag was comfortably enough. I do remain cautious about condensation on the sensor or other inner parts so I wouldn't change lenses after a few hours, I'd leave it for several hours or go outside to do it of course. There is certainly no harm leaving things for longer. I suppose one could take a humidity probe to get dew point and an IR thermometer to measure the surface temperature of the gear but for research, not daily use. Failing that you'll just have to use common sense interpretations of "a few" and "several"!

I'd take the battery and card out while in the cold. Not sure what I'd do now we have to charge batteries in camera.

--
Andrew Skinner

 

[RaysJ]

Batteries could be a problem in extreme cold, they drain much faster, best to keep spares in a warm pocket. You may want to consider buying another battery.

Here is video which may help:

Also consider buying some hand warmers.

 

[yardcoyote]

Spare batteries in an inside pocket definitely. And no lens changes in the cold.

Times in my conservative estimate were for gear that's frozen solid.

 

[Ozzie SD]

Just try it, put the cameras in your (deep) freezer for some hours and then test them.

In all honesty that does not sound like the best idea. I would not advise to put a camera in a freezer.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Changing lenses in the cold is OK, it is changing them in the warm and moist when the camera is cold that is unwise. I've changed lenses a good deal at -20C, though I'd not if it were snowing but I don't when it is raining either.

 

[RaysJ]

Just try it, put the cameras in your (deep) freezer for some hours and then test them.

In all honesty that does not sound like the best idea. I would not advise to put a camera in a freezer.

Why not? If he is going to use at -18C, what is the difference?

 

[jxh]

I'd take the battery and card out while in the cold. Not sure what I'd do now we have to charge batteries in camera.

Yes, lithium batteries should NEVER be charged below freezing temperatures (EV cars actually have battery heaters to bring them up to temperature before charging)

They CAN be used below freezing, but have greatly reduced capacity.

 

[Ozzie SD]

Just try it, put the cameras in your (deep) freezer for some hours and then test them.

In all honesty that does not sound like the best idea. I would not advise to put a camera in a freezer.

Why not? If he is going to use at -18C, what is the difference?

Although it will be very cold outside there is fresh air and the camera will be put in a bag after a few minutes. A freezer is a closed cabinet. A camera is not built to live in a freezer for hours. I would not take that risk. If OP wants to try, be my guest but if things go wrong I don't think warranty or insurance * will cover it.

"So how exactly the camera got broken?
>... well ehh, I put in the fridge for a couple of hours.
Ah, I see. A camera is to take photos, not to put in a fridge. We don't cover that ... have a nice day.
>...uhh, okay."

I would not do it.

 

[jiberlin]

Coming back to the original question, there are two critical/cold-sensitive components of cameras:

• lubrication: If it is (very) cold, the viscositivity increase and the lubricants can come 'sticky'. To my knowledge, this problem is solved with modern lubricants. In old times camera for extreme cold (space) were lubricated with special oil for the extreme cold
• LCD: The liquid-crystals of LCDs are temperature sensitive and the LCDs can freeze (stop working), but normally will not damaged. The LCDs are simply not usable.

All manufacturers will specify a temperature range for use and anotgeer wider temperature range for storage.

 

[RaysJ]

Just try it, put the cameras in your (deep) freezer for some hours and then test them.

In all honesty that does not sound like the best idea. I would not advise to put a camera in a freezer.

Why not? If he is going to use at -18C, what is the difference?

Although it will be very cold outside there is fresh air and the camera will be put in a bag after a few minutes. A freezer is a closed cabinet. A camera is not built to live in a freezer for hours. I would not take that risk. If OP wants to try, be my guest but if things go wrong I don't think warranty or insurance * will cover it.

"So how exactly the camera got broken?
>... well ehh, I put in the fridge for a couple of hours.
Ah, I see. A camera is to take photos, not to put in a fridge. We don't cover that ... have a nice day.
>...uhh, okay."

I would not do it.

How do know it will be put in a bag after a few minutes?

You think a bag will be warmer if outside for any length of time?

 

[a_c_skinner]

To simplify this thread. There are two things to keep in mind:

Batteries will lose power as they cool, rewarming them will restore them without needing a charger but because of their heat capacity they cool and rewarm very slowly. So take spares.

The only thing about condensation is not to expose a cold camera to warm air, but to let it rewarm in a bag. This applies to putting it inside clothing (which will keep it warmer) or a motor vehicle or buildings or tents. All of those will be humid enough to condense on cold metal and glass.

Finally

Any camera cools it will eventually slow down or stop working. However unless you are an epic explorer modern cameras will tolerate the cold while ever their accomopanying humans will. My final skiing trip was -25 to 30. An X-E3 and 23/2 on a neck strap was still working by the time, despite good arctic cloting I felt it was time to go indoors.

One chap I know who supports those epic races in the high arctic keeps one camera warm and one cold. He says he has no trouble with Canon DSLRs down to -20.

 

[tbcass]

Coming back to the original question, there are two critical/cold-sensitive components of cameras:

• lubrication: If it is (very) cold, the viscositivity increase and the lubricants can come 'sticky'. To my knowledge, this problem is solved with modern lubricants. In old times camera for extreme cold (space) were lubricated with special oil for the extreme cold
• LCD: The liquid-crystals of LCDs are temperature sensitive and the LCDs can freeze (stop working), but normally will not damaged. The LCDs are simply not usable.

All manufacturers will specify a temperature range for use and anotgeer wider temperature range for storage.

There's a third component, the battery. When the battery get's cold it's efficiency decreases to the point where you won't get many shots until it warms back up.