Do you agree with this?

Image quality was never a factor to say if a picture was awesome or not.
It never hurt.
Anyhoo, seeing we're there, what's your definition of awesome ?
Great composition, great colors, good subject.

You don't need a modern camera to achieve that. A 6MP photo taken with a Nikon D100 from 2002 that has a composition and subject telling a story with good framing will always be better than a random snapshot taken without care with an Hasselblad X2D 100C.

Image quality on a technical term is good to have, and always better than not, but absolutely not mandatory to create awesome images. I've seen many awesome images taken with point and shoot cameras from teh mid 2000s with a 1/2.3" sensor and terrible dynamic range, and mediocre ones taken with a medium format camera.

Just like you can have an awesome sports car and be a terrible driver.
MJ, this is a pretty tired old argument that is sure to land entirely neutral and designed to take the wind out of any lively debate's sails on the subject. And yes, Michelle Bates makes a good living doing photography with toy cameras? Are they toy cameras or professional tools?

As the previous poster said, "seeing we're there", Would you rather the best photo you will ever take in your life be taken with a Hasselblad X2D 100C or with a Nikon D100 from 2002???

John
 
I'm making a higher class of mistakes.

But I cheat: I only shoot old cars and young women.
Hmmm, maybe we should partner up. I shoot NEW cars and young women. Might do us both some good!!! LOL
I shoot new cars and old women, so I probably not qualify to join the club...

___
Photography is so easy, that's what makes it highly difficult - Robert Delpire
Hey Cherry, even old dogs can learn new tricks!
Well, that's comforting. I partially qualify, although I'm not a dog
Qualifications are a moving goal post, I'm sure we could find an exception!!! LOL
Good point. So true.
___
Photography is so easy, that's what makes it highly difficult - Robert Delpire
 
I'm the other way. I shot film from 77 through 2003, then did the switch, would never go back.

What I have found that it's important for me to take chances - visually, with scenarios, locations, outfits, etc, particularly since I shoot in the studio. A lot of what I do is improvisational work with dancers, meaning, there are no preset poses, it's capturing things on the fly, as they happen. Discovering a shot - and then perhaps working on a segment later as opposed to planning a shot, let's say, and the freedom of digital is a huge win here. I remember a recent shoot - there was an outfit that upon first glance I wasn't a fan of. If I had been shooting film, with it's limits (frames per roll as well as cost), I would have skipped over. But digital? It's "free" - so we experimented. Turns out I was insanely wrong and the resulting shots were some of the best of the session. The ability to pivot, to take chances (and also to shoot a long series continually without changing film) are all huge things for me. Being limited by a low number of frames per roll (or per sheet) or by cost is a huge downside to me. So my digital work vastly exceeds the quality of my film work, and it's not even close.
 
I lack the experience of shooting film. Thats why i'm asking. I stole the image from Facebook.

2d42af564c3b4542ac7b65f63d98e9ed.jpg
I think there's an element of truth to this, but as usual the reality is more nuanced...
  1. I spent the first 15 years of my photographic journey using film. I likely learned more in my first month of owning a dSLR since the "feedback loop" is so short.
  2. My definition of what "awesome" is has changed over the years. Those 6 "awesome" film photos from my past may not pass muster today
  3. My keeper ratio may be worse (no where near as bad as implied in the meme), but sometimes that's by design. I have more freedom to experiment. This is particularly true with concert photography where I will slow down the shutter speed a lot to get interesting "movement" in the photo. That may mean spraying-and-praying, then selecting the exact moment out of the sequence. I don't see anything wrong with this - it's just taking advantage of the current state of the technology.
--

Sam Bennett
Instagram: @swiftbennett
 
I created no dilemma of this sort, maybe you need to re-read my previous posts in this thread. I just said that gear never mattered in making a photo awesome or not.
You originally said image quality does not matter in making a photo awesome or not. Which I guess I could agree with except I am not crazy about the term image quality. I guess you are referring to technical details like sharpness, coma, distortion, etc. But, image quality as a term leads me to think of more ephemeral matters. There is that word quality. But. leaving that aside, I disagree with the notion that gear does not matter. Of course it does. That would be like saying paint and paint brushes don't matter to the painter. Tell that to Yves Klein who today I learned invented International Klein Blue. Photographers from the days of the first inventions to today are cognizant of the camera they are using and make the most of its limitations and strengths sometimes obscuring the strengths for effect. Perhaps gear does not matter to the extent that great images have been taken with a variety of cameras from heirloom to exotic. But, that is a very small case of the meaning of the phrase. Sorry to get all English lit on you but, you know, right now we are using our words.
It might make life easier, but it's not because your camera is capable that the pictures that you'll take will be any more awesome than before.
Maybe, maybe not. Proper tools can make all the difference. True, I could hammer in that nail with my shoe, but learning about actual hammers could lead me to a career in cabinetry.
That was a response to Ron Poleman's post saying that film images were not awesome because the quality sucked, or something similar, which isn't true in the slightest, because an image being awesome or not is not about image quality.
Just dislike that term-quality-in this discussion. I know photographers like to use its limited definition but having once read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance I can't get the deeper meaning of quality out of my head. And it's probably been almost 50 years so it's not like I haven't tried.
I use nice equipment because I can. I see no reason why I should use crappy old gear if I can avoid it. But that nice equipment doesn't make my photos more awesome in the slightest.
Well, if the nice equipment allows you to get a shot you wouldn't have gotten with your crappy gear, or it helps you achieve a certain 'quality' the old gear couldn't manage, than yeah, it can make your photos more awesome.
Of course everyone would want to have better gear, but that's not what I'm talking about here.
 
Nope, I'll take my chances though if it happens. I can get 2-3 fps with my trigger finger.
 
I can agree with that meme.

a typical day shooting drag races gets me 1k or 2k images.

I cull that down to 200 keepers and maybe 2 or 4 shots worthy of printing.
 
I can agree with that meme.

a typical day shooting drag races gets me 1k or 2k images.

I cull that down to 200 keepers and maybe 2 or 4 shots worthy of printing.
That would be impossible to do with film :-O
Yes you would be spending a lot of the time changing films.

l knew someone who used to do wildlife in lndia, he used to take 200-300 rolls of film, he soon changed to digital, saved him a fortune and no hassle with carrying and storing, all that film.

You can take far more images on digital, you can increase the lSO, l did not bother if l was using film, l only used 100 lSO, if it was too dark, then hard cheese. I did rarely change film mid way but too much hassle.
 
Last edited:
is the one that jumps out of the batch at you.

With film, it's a slow process. You take the shots, send out the film to be developed (and printed, if you don't use slide film), and open that envelope and eagerly look at the results. If you are very lucky, you will get one good shot per roll.

With digital, it's a heck of a lot shorter lead time. You go out, shoot, maybe chimp a bit to work on optimal compositions, then come back home, download the shots, and view them. If you are lucky, you will have one (or two) that jump the heck off the screen and grab you. The rest will be varying degrees of "yeah, I can work with that", and you shuffle them off into Photoshop to adjust them. And, some of those can come out very well. But mostly they end up still just decent, but not wow-ers.

The thing is, film, unless you did your own developing, had a long enough return curve from when you shot to when you got the images back, that it was a lot harder to learn what techniques would get you the results you wanted when you took the shot in the first place. And it was expensive.

I'd been shooting since I was a kid, probably about 10 years old (basic Kodak camera). My best friend had a darkroom, so I did get to do at least some of my own developing. But that was only black and white, and I certainly didn't have the funds to do much more experimentation with either the cameras or film at the time.

I did finally get an SLR in college, but I really didn't have the money to buy more than a couple of lenses or shoot much film, so I used it more sparingly than I would have liked.

Over the years, I played with all sorts of inexpensive cameras (instant, point and shoots, etc), and I did get an AF SLR in the late 1990s, which I was finally able to do some more photographic exploration with. But it still was expensive and not terribly convenient to have to have the film developed.

When digital first came out, I received a 2MP Toshiba point and shoot. It was as slow as molasses (push the shutter button and...wait), and it barely got 50 shots per 4 AA batteries (half that if they weren't rechargeable). But that camera was an utter revelation. FINALLY I could get instant feedback on what I was shooting; including composition, lighting, color...and I did not have to spend big bucks to do it. I learned more about what I needed to do to get the compositions I wanted from that little thing than from all the film bodies I'd had over the years, simply because I could see what I was doing right/wrong instantly, and correct it going forward.

And, of course, after that I spent years chasing the technology as it matured (but that was fun in a different way, in any case :) ).

So, while I think your meme is a little enthusiastic about how many good photos you would get from one roll of film, I don't think the premise is entirely incorrect, just the total number of shots is a bit skewed. I would posit that out of 12 shots on the first roll, you'd be lucky to get one great one. Similarly, out of 36 shots in the second, one, maybe two, would be a good haul. In digital? I usually find that if I'm shooting carefully, my return can be on a par with film. However, if I am experimenting, I will take a whole lot more shots, just to figure out what works the best. And yes, most of those will be not great. But they are to LEARN what works in that shooting situation, so the next time you are out shooting in that same type situation, you WON'T need to take tons of shots to get the good ones. And THAT is the advantage of working with digital, that this meme kind of misses entirely.

-J
 
Last edited:
is the one that jumps out of the batch at you.

With film, it's a slow process. You take the shots, send out the film to be developed (and printed, if you don't use slide film), and open that envelope and eagerly look at the results. If you are very lucky, you will get one good shot per roll.

With digital, it's a heck of a lot shorter lead time. You go out, shoot, maybe chimp a bit to work on optimal compositions, then come back home, download the shots, and view them. If you are lucky, you will have one (or two) that jump the heck off the screen and grab you. The rest will be varying degrees of "yeah, I can work with that", and you shuffle them off into Photoshop to adjust them. And, some of those can come out very well. But mostly they end up still just decent, but not wow-ers.

The thing is, film, unless you did your own developing, had a long enough return curve from when you shot to when you got the images back, that it was a lot harder to learn what techniques would get you the results you wanted when you took the shot in the first place. And it was expensive.

I'd been shooting since I was a kid, probably about 10 years old (basic Kodak camera). My best friend had a darkroom, so I did get to do at least some of my own developing. But that was only black and white, and I certainly didn't have the funds to do much more experimentation with either the cameras or film at the time.

I did finally get an SLR in college, but I really didn't have the money to buy more than a couple of lenses or shoot much film, so I used it more sparingly than I would have liked.

Over the years, I played with all sorts of inexpensive cameras (instant, point and shoots, etc), and I did get an AF SLR in the late 1990s, which I was finally able to do some more photographic exploration with. But it still was expensive and not terribly convenient to have to have the film developed.

When digital first came out, I received a 2MP Toshiba point and shoot. It was as slow as molasses (push the shutter button and...wait), and it barely got 50 shots per 4 AA batteries (half that if they weren't rechargeable). But that camera was an utter revelation. FINALLY I could get instant feedback on what I was shooting; including composition, lighting, color...and I did not have to spend big bucks to do it. I learned more about what I needed to do to get the compositions I wanted from that little thing than from all the film bodies I'd had over the years, simply because I could see what I was doing right/wrong instantly, and correct it going forward.

And, of course, after that I spent years chasing the technology as it matured (but that was fun in a different way, in any case :) ).

So, while I think your meme is a little enthusiastic about how many good photos you would get from one roll of film, I don't think the premise is entirely incorrect, just the total number of shots is a bit skewed. I would posit that out of 12 shots on the first roll, you'd be lucky to get one great one. Similarly, out of 36 shots in the second, one, maybe two, would be a good haul. In digital? I usually find that if I'm shooting carefully, my return can be on a par with film. However, if I am experimenting, I will take a whole lot more shots, just to figure out what works the best. And yes, most of those will be not great. But they are to LEARN what works in that shooting situation, so the next time you are out shooting in that same type situation, you WON'T need to take tons of shots to get the good ones. And THAT is the advantage of working with digital, that this meme kind of misses entirely.

-J
Excellent words. Digital is great, but trigital (0, 1, 2) is the future :-)
 
is the one that jumps out of the batch at you.
I don't agree with that. A good image can be subtle and require close examination. Some images that jump out at you can be showy and over processed with no substance.
 
is the one that jumps out of the batch at you.
I don't agree with that. A good image can be subtle and require close examination. Some images that jump out at you can be showy and over processed with no substance.
Yes some images take a bit of work, the original image, may look very ordinary.

The ones with instant impact, maybe quite be flawed, upon closer inspection.
 
I can agree with that meme.

a typical day shooting drag races gets me 1k or 2k images.

I cull that down to 200 keepers and maybe 2 or 4 shots worthy of printing.
That would be impossible to do with film :-O
get a couple of these, no problem! LOL



4503270.jpg



--
Thanks!
Chris
 
I can agree with that meme.

a typical day shooting drag races gets me 1k or 2k images.

I cull that down to 200 keepers and maybe 2 or 4 shots worthy of printing.
That would be impossible to do with film :-O
get a couple of these, no problem! LOL

You still only get 1000 photos from those two,(750 plus 250) so you would need to re-load. They do tend to be hard to use with the longer tele, particularly for action shots....



55980ad3c64b4546bb17b84c45b2a0bc.jpg
 
After a day's work, back pain is guaranteed. 😁
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top