Sad times for MFT

Keit ll

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With deteriorating profits for OM & the lack of new compacts from Panasonic things aren't looking too healthy.

Both companies are trying to rely on sales of high-end models but this leaves possible new entry buyers with insufficient choices. As older users fall away there won't be enough Pro users to make continuing sales viable.

Panasonic, apparently, is hoping that the FF market will keep them going but this is a gamble that may not pay off.
 
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With deteriorating profits for OM & the lack of new compacts from Panasonic things aren't looking too healthy.
I'm not sure what you've seen in terms of "profits" but needless to say, the 2024 market share numbers aren't great at the unit-level as Fuji continues to steal share from basically everyone.
Both companies are trying to rely on sales of high-end models but this leaves possible new entry buyers with insufficient choices. As older users fall away there won't be enough Pro users to make continuing sales viable.
I'm hopeful that 2025 is going to be a different story for OMS with the release of the OM-3 and OM-5 Mark II and their seemingly much more capable marketing organization. They seem to be more effectively getting the word out across different channels - but only time will tell.

I wouldn't say that these are "sad" times since I've never been happier as an MFT owner. However, it's absolutely true that it's is important that OMS focuses right now - and IMO it appears that's exactly what they're doing. But you're right - they cannot rely on higher-end models, so next year they need to release the OM-10 and some sort of PEN model to make sure they're getting people on the "ground floor" of their journey into using a real camera on a regular basis. I think if they can get weather sealing into these new offerings while keeping the price truly "entry level" they can succeed with the "Outdoor Adventure" strategy they've got rolling.
Panasonic, apparently, is hoping that the FF market will keep them going but this is a gamble that may not pay off.
I wouldn't count Panasonic out. They certainly seem to be suffering from a lack of focus, but I suspect they've got an RF-style MFT body in development. Everyone can see the success Fuji is having and they're responding - but responding with new hardware products takes time.
 
I started with an E-PL1 in 2010. Then to E-PL5, E-M10 Mark I, and E-M10 Mark II. When I needed more capability and wanted to move to E-M5, they removed tethering. I don't really want bigger cameras but I was "forced" to move to E-M1. I bought used instead of new because they are not actually what I want.


I have two E-M1 Mark II now and I am not buying any new MFT camera until they can come up with an OM-5 that: 1. can tether and 2. with a solid tripod socket that I can use with my clips and sling straps.
 
I find it very disconcerting that Panasonic has chosen to leave behind the utterly wonderful ergonomics of the original G9 in favor of a "corporate body" structure as found in the G9 M2, the S5 M2 and the S1 M2, all of which are in a relatively standard form that just does not answer the call for me. In doing so, Panasonic eliminated the top plate LCD which I use heavily. It is because of Panasonic's seeming lack of vision that I chose to buy a second original G9 body (used) as a hedge against further degradation of their MFT line of products. Several years ago, I learned that the choice of a camera, especially in the current world of configurable digital cameras, is so very personal that one seeking to buy a new product would be well-advised to "try it on" before buying any product. For me, any camera must be fit to purpose or I will not buy it. End of story.
 
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Dji and Potensic for example issue firmwares - in fact updates - frequently and that adds interest to their products.

This is the way to go nowadays.
 
I'll be sad :-( when my m43 gear stops working and I cannot get it repaired or replaced with used gear.

Unitl then, I'll keep on truckin'.
 
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With deteriorating profits for OM & the lack of new compacts from Panasonic things aren't looking too healthy.

Both companies are trying to rely on sales of high-end models but this leaves possible new entry buyers with insufficient choices. As older users fall away there won't be enough Pro users to make continuing sales viable.

Panasonic, apparently, is hoping that the FF market will keep them going but this is a gamble that may not pay off.
Personally, I like the concept Panasonic invented with the introduction of the S9 and the S5D: Entrance system is the L-mount- from there young people may grow to S1ii (best dynamic range in the market) or S1Rii (the R5ii alternative) or the midrange S5ii with an easy path to the light&long tele and macro specialists (G9ii with same UI) and GH7 for the more tough work - both combined with the PL100-400 or the most versatile macro lens, the OMSy90 are unique. Also OM System bodies with the Oly150-400 have a unique selling point for birds and such.

But competition is fierce - Canon has a very attractive system. Systems like Nikon and Fuji are very innovative and open to customers: Documented SDK available while Panasonic and also OM System keep the creative programmers outside. Sony delivers the compact system and may upgrade their tech soon, too.

Compact cameras are not important for me anymore: Why a compact casing without grip behind a PL100-400? When compact and wide angle is needed, smartcameras have the advantage to be in the pocket anyway, thus why put another system next to them for the same purpose?

In a few months smartphones will reach fullframe image quality with new generation 1" sensors. If MFT system could find a way to exploit those new possibilities, it could increase some market share with fullframe quality but at faster read out speed and more smartphone-like computational photography but combined with the nice optics the smartphones can not have - only if they would integrate a MFT mount to their main sensor with the standard lens acting as backfocus speed booster optics: CRAZY.
 
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Who p!ssed in your cheerios? I am optimistic about MFT, so many great bodies and lenses now with more on the way.
 
I find it very disconcerting that Panasonic has chosen to leave behind the utterly wonderful ergonomics of the original G9 in favor of a "corporate body" structure as found in the G9 M2,
I am not sure that the angst about the G9 II size or ergonomics it is the exact same weight as the mk 1 . It is a little narrower a little shallower and touch higher :-) I previously had a G9 though have not handled the mk II so I may be missing some small but significant difference



4800664bd20f4d0fad07afa430df2020.jpg


At least the G9 got a real mark II, I am still awaiting a real GX8 mk II as 10yrs have now passed alas it is very very unlikely to appear :-(


--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post
 
With deteriorating profits for OM & the lack of new compacts from Panasonic things aren't looking too healthy.
I'm not sure what you've seen in terms of "profits" but needless to say, the 2024 market share numbers aren't great at the unit-level as Fuji continues to steal share from basically everyone.
The same business source reported that OM despite increasing revenue on decreased number of sales. Lost more money −¥1.2 billion compared to −¥0.21 billion in 2023 and ¥0.64 billion in 2022.

https://dclife.jp/camera_news/article/om/2025/0830_01.html

From Thom's analysis of the provided data Fuji certainly increased their sales numbers significantly presumably on the back of their successful fixed lens models but in fact every maker except OM grew their market share

https://bythom.com/newsviews/so-who-grew.html

d6398d245f3746ab8881409e490b793d.jpg


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Interestingly the TG series seems to be doing pretty well accounting for around 20% of their total sales. Maybe the drive for outdoors is not so far off the mark

I am sure someone will be along shortly to tell us all the negative metrics we have seen about OM are all part of a heinous conspiracy and OM is in fact doing a roaring trade. It will not be true but hey.) I have a list of contenders who will do just

I don't care about market share as what matters is sustainability and turning round losses JIP has a record of doing this and will hopefully do the same for OM . It makes sense for them to get the camera company on a good footing going forwarded .

--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post
 
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Sad Bear. Today with my Gf6.

Sad Bear. Today with my Gf6.



--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.
 
Sad Bear. Today with my Gf6.

Sad Bear. Today with my Gf6.
Not sad , just relaxing in the sun :-)

--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post
 
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What I'm asking myself: Why should I opt for a smaller sensor if there is no significant savings in size, weight, or cost compared to full frame or APS?

I sometimes think Panasonic and Olympus have forgotten to ask this. M4/3 cameras have grown larger and larger, while the other brands have cut down the size of their gear as they moved into mirrorless.

I started m4/3 with the Panasonic G1, tiny by today's standards, and have watched camera sizes move up through the generations. When my G9 arrived I was much disappointed in the size and weight -- I'm out in the sticks with no camera store around to shop in person. Had I seen it in a store I would have likely passed it up.

The Nikon Z5ii full frame is actually a bit smaller than the G9ii and is only about 40 grams heavier. It costs less than $100 more. (Comparing specs on the B&H site.)

So where's the advantage to m4/3? Maybe in the lenses. Or maybe not, depending on what you use.

By contrast, I'm loving my tiny little G100 with it's compact collapsible lenses. I've considered selling the G9 to buy a second G100 - the main drawback being the limited flash sync speed on the G100.

If m4/3 is to continue the makers have to find an advantage and promote it. I don't see this happening. Instead Panasonic seems to be moving to full frame, where they will go head-to-head with the big three. That's not likely to end well.

I'm pushing 80 years old. I'm pretty sure there will be m4/3 gear around as long as I'm able to lift it, even if they stop making it tomorrow. And I'm for sure not going to drop multi-thousand bucks to change system at this point. But if m4/3 makers can't come up with some fresh thinking I don't see any future once we old farts have died off.

Gato
 
What I'm asking myself: Why should I opt for a smaller sensor if there is no significant savings in size, weight, or cost compared to full frame or APS?

I sometimes think Panasonic and Olympus have forgotten to ask this. M4/3 cameras have grown larger and larger, while the other brands have cut down the size of their gear as they moved into mirrorless.

I started m4/3 with the Panasonic G1, tiny by today's standards, and have watched camera sizes move up through the generations. When my G9 arrived I was much disappointed in the size and weight -- I'm out in the sticks with no camera store around to shop in person. Had I seen it in a store I would have likely passed it up.

The Nikon Z5ii full frame is actually a bit smaller than the G9ii and is only about 40 grams heavier. It costs less than $100 more. (Comparing specs on the B&H site.)
I think for new cameras the Z5 II is the best bang for the buck FF camera in the words of DPreview

"The Nikon Z5II is almost unimaginably good for a camera priced under $2000."
So where's the advantage to m4/3? Maybe in the lenses. Or maybe not, depending on what you use.

By contrast, I'm loving my tiny little G100 with it's compact collapsible lenses. I've considered selling the G9 to buy a second G100 - the main drawback being the limited flash sync speed on the G100.
The G100/d is a great buy it's main problem was the poor marketing for a lot of use cases it is plenty . I have been a long time Panasonic user so have a good selection of lenses with OIS . I am in truth over the top on camera bodies but the G100D always tempts

If m4/3 is to continue the makers have to find an advantage and promote it. I don't see this happening. Instead Panasonic seems to be moving to full frame, where they will go head-to-head with the big three. That's not likely to end well.

I'm pushing 80 years old. I'm pretty sure there will be m4/3 gear around as long as I'm able to lift it, even if they stop making it tomorrow. And I'm for sure not going to drop multi-thousand bucks to change system at this point. But if m4/3 makers can't come up with some fresh thinking I don't see any future once we old farts have died off.

Gato
 
With deteriorating profits for OM & the lack of new compacts from Panasonic things aren't looking too healthy.

Both companies are trying to rely on sales of high-end models but this leaves possible new entry buyers with insufficient choices. As older users fall away there won't be enough Pro users to make continuing sales viable.

Panasonic, apparently, is hoping that the FF market will keep them going but this is a gamble that may not pay off.
This is why I decided to trade in my G9ii for the Nikon Z6iii. Once I got my hands on the rather large Nikon 180-600mm for the original Z6, I realised the true advantage of Full Frame over M43 when it comes to low light shooting. It didn't make sense to keep the G9ii when I would be mostly using the Nikon X 180-600. So it made sense to trade the Panasonic for a better autofocusing Nikon with a better EVF. The EVF on the original Nikon Z6 is worse than the GH3. It's that bad and makes the camera almost unusable.

What attracted me to M43 was the small cameras and the small lenses. Once the small cameras are no longer produce and the larger bodies are full frame size and cost roughly the same as the larger sensor cameras, for me M43 fate is sealed. This is why I purchased the Nikon 180-600 and despite the handling, the image quality were in another league compared to the PL100-400.

I don't know if M43 will recover? There's a possibility Lumix will mostly abandon M43 and already they are doing the bare amount of releases to keep their M43 market share going. I can see Lumix just release those box video cameras and focus the rest on L mount.

OM system probably have a future for older photographers and alternatives for Full Frame wildlife lenses and set ups. If you look at this board, the amount of OM posts tower over what little Lumix posts.

Me personally I can't see myself buying anymore M43 gear. That said I'm one lens away from completing my Nikon lens selection and in reality with Full Frame, you only need a few lenses.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/184579125@N06/albums
 
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1) Companies are not in business to lose money

2) Dedicated cameras are increasingly pressed by the (very) sophisticated smartphone photographic technology. This is accelerated by the "snowball effect":
  • The sheer volume of cell phone sales, and guaranteed repeat sales in future, enables/funds the progressive development of state-of-the-art sensor (and processing and software) tech for use in them.
  • No camera maker will ever be able to order as many sensors as the cellphone companies, so they are a bit at the mercy of the resultingly high cost of paying for development and production of new sensor tech for their own cameras....and that limits the development of fast advances in their dedicated camera lines.
  • Phones are small, handy, and convenient. And, when not viewed large or up very close, their output is....pretty. It's designed that way. And it's easy. And it's seductive. It's also marked by a whole lot of...sameness....but easy and pretty works really well for most people in most situations.
So, the more phones there are, the more advanced their tech becomes, and the further behind in technology the smaller photo systems (esp ones with smaller sensors), become.

How can the smaller sensored systems fight that? Well, they can do what OMS has, which is focus on what phones CAN'T do, and that's nature and wildlife, including long telephoto work. Or, they can do what Fuji has, which is make stylish cameras with a "cool" factor that works alongside the remaining advantages that dedicated systems still do have, to lure their audience. The OM3 was OMS's attempt to capture that market. And, the OM5II creeps in there also, even though it's not as "stylish" as the OM3. How will those play out? I have no idea; time will tell.

As to Panasonic? I think Panasonic has relegated M43 to the "only do what's necessary" pile. Is this smart? Given the encroachment from below (smartphones) and above (its L-mount system), if you think about it, what really are their options?

Panasonic has never been able to market a "stylish" body well. They've made some remarkably innovative untraditionally styled cameras over the years (the GMs, and, yes, even the S9) that were clearly engineering milestones. And they've made some great cameras that were kind of kludgy to look at (GX8), too, but were terrific in function...but none were either marketed properly, or just missed a little bit in important areas to capture raves, rather than criticism, of their good points vs whatever flaws they did have. And when you top that off with just the Panasonic/Lumix name lacking the the cachet that the "stylish" users find acceptable to walk around with, and you have...a problem.

Of course, in the video arena? No problem. But for photographers? Nope. And I know Panasonic is well aware of this, and I suspect it's one reason it strongly orients its products to the video users, not just the photography market.

Plus, when Panasonic has reacted to the criticisms, their next products in the same arena tend to be a bit lackluster. For instance: The GX8...great camera, but not svelte, and had that shutter issue. So, they backed off, went back to a cheaper, earlier form factor with a terrible EVF, and the older sensor...but they improved the shutter mechanism, and made it less expensive. And, they were rewarded with success, as it was in a friendly price point for most users, and it was the right size. (GX85). Going forward, they updated that with the 20MP sensor into the GX9....but still the same EVF, even less friendly grip, truly lackluster IBIS...in other words a more expensive version that was, to be honest with you, (having owned one) a disappointment. And, it clearly did not sell well, as they discontinued it (while still offering the GX85!).

So, here's the dilemma. A new rangefinder, with high end IBIS, better EVF, PDAF, and a stylish body, in M43, is going to be expensive. And, given that the expensive rangefinders that Panasonic has made in M43 in past, have NOT sold well, where is their incentive to do this? It's not there. People who are going to spend $1500 + on a small rangefinder, are a small market, with lots of options for gear now, and almost all of that gear have sensors that are larger and more technologically advanced than what M43 has to work with. And, if they cut costs with the 20MP CDAF only sensor, they could drop the cost...but lose to the PDAF contingent available elsewhere.

So, if you look at it that way, it will be a very cold day before Panasonic puts more money and innovation into a mid-range M43 body of any style.

Whether or not Panasonic succeeds with L-mount is an entirely other question, but it's where their R&D and marketing clearly are focused now, and for the foreseeable future. It's where they CAN charge more for their products, and the potential for profit, as a result, is far higher than with anything they might have, if they devoted equivalent development dollars to it, in M43.

-J
 
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I think there is still a niche for the small models and small, light lenses, at the other end of the spectrum from the wildlife stuff. They need to WR the little primes and keep the charming little PEN and retro 5 series and 10 series SLR models current--and offer onboard or accessory EVFs for the PENs. Especially if delivered noticeably cheaper than the price range Fuji is now charging with a straight face. There are also a slew of people who would love a premium metal-body SLR style model like the OM3, or RF style like the PEN F, but without the surcharge for the wildlife/sports use-case superpowers.
 

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