A puzzle of modification

[T-Rex Mark]

Sooo, I knew that this may have challenges but at the same time I was hoping for a miracle. The puzzler is a CZJ Cardinar likely taken off Werra and then modified with an exacta mount slapped in place of what was there. The mount works fine but the aperture is stuck almost :-( wide open. I would not be as bothered if it was wide open, it’s only closed perhaps to 4.8 but enough to modify the circle.

anyone has an idea of how to disassemble this creation?

I took the three screws from the mount and the little guy serving as Exacta stop - the mount sits really tightly - after I took the screws it did not feel like anything is letting go at all. I really just wanted to open the aperture and perhaps get to the helicoid as it is a little tight.


Taking these three little bolts out has not loosen anything


I thought the little lever would move the aperture but it does not give at all when I try to push it with screwdriver

here are a few shots in dim sunsetting light - pardon longish handheld exposures









It is not in perfect shape needless to say but i find this an interesting challenge and I like what it produces. Also, for the 100mm it’s an incredibly small lens, I will read some more on it, wonder what is the design.

If anyone has any idea on its construction - please let me know.

edit: found this video for the original (and very clean) lens. The little lever seems to be the aperture lever. I am thinking that perhaps the mount somehow presses on aperture mechanism. Also it appears that aperture does not open all the way as this video shows it visible when wide open

looking at other images it does look like wide open os not fully wide open https://www.ebay.com/itm/235702600992

still no idea how to take the mount off but considering this is wide open I am less concerned although I will likely try to figure it out to lubricate the helicoid
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https://500px.com/bc-foto

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Sooo, I knew that this may have challenges but at the same time I was hoping for a miracle. The puzzler is a CZJ Cardinar likely taken off Werra and then modified with an exacta mount slapped in place of what was there. The mount works fine but the aperture is stuck almost :-( wide open. I would not be as bothered if it was wide open, it’s only closed perhaps to 4.8 but enough to modify the circle.

anyone has an idea of how to disassemble this creation?

I took the three screws from the mount and the little guy serving as Exacta stop - the mount sits really tightly - after I took the screws it did not feel like anything is letting go at all. I really just wanted to open the aperture and perhaps get to the helicoid as it is a little tight.


Taking these three little bolts out has not loosen anything


I thought the little lever would move the aperture but it does not give at all when I try to push it with screwdriver

here are a few shots in dim sunsetting light - pardon longish handheld exposures









It is not in perfect shape needless to say but i find this an interesting challenge and I like what it produces. Also, for the 100mm it’s an incredibly small lens, I will read some more on it, wonder what is the design.

If anyone has any idea on its construction - please let me know.

edit: found this video for the original (and very clean) lens. The little lever seems to be the aperture lever. I am thinking that perhaps the mount somehow presses on aperture mechanism. Also it appears that aperture does not open all the way as this video shows it visible when wide open

looking at other images it does look like wide open os not fully wide open https://www.ebay.com/itm/235702600992

still no idea how to take the mount off but considering this is wide open I am less concerned although I will likely try to figure it out to lubricate the helicoid
--
https://500px.com/bc-foto

Looking at the naked Werra lens could the slotted ring arrowed below control the aperture?


Possible aperture control?

This seems to be covered by your 3rd party mount, so may explain the partially closed aperture.

As for the mount removal, I believe Ching-Kuang Shene has adapted one of these lenses , he may be able to give you advice.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Sooo, I knew that this may have challenges but at the same time I was hoping for a miracle. The puzzler is a CZJ Cardinar likely taken off Werra and then modified with an exacta mount slapped in place of what was there. The mount works fine but the aperture is stuck almost :-( wide open. I would not be as bothered if it was wide open, it’s only closed perhaps to 4.8 but enough to modify the circle.

anyone has an idea of how to disassemble this creation?

I took the three screws from the mount and the little guy serving as Exacta stop - the mount sits really tightly - after I took the screws it did not feel like anything is letting go at all. I really just wanted to open the aperture and perhaps get to the helicoid as it is a little tight.


Taking these three little bolts out has not loosen anything


I thought the little lever would move the aperture but it does not give at all when I try to push it with screwdriver

here are a few shots in dim sunsetting light - pardon longish handheld exposures









It is not in perfect shape needless to say but i find this an interesting challenge and I like what it produces. Also, for the 100mm it’s an incredibly small lens, I will read some more on it, wonder what is the design.

If anyone has any idea on its construction - please let me know.

edit: found this video for the original (and very clean) lens. The little lever seems to be the aperture lever. I am thinking that perhaps the mount somehow presses on aperture mechanism. Also it appears that aperture does not open all the way as this video shows it visible when wide open

looking at other images it does look like wide open os not fully wide open https://www.ebay.com/itm/235702600992

still no idea how to take the mount off but considering this is wide open I am less concerned although I will likely try to figure it out to lubricate the helicoid
--
https://500px.com/bc-foto

Looking at the naked Werra lens could the slotted ring arrowed below control the aperture?


Possible aperture control?

This seems to be covered by your 3rd party mount, so may explain the partially closed aperture.

As for the mount removal, I believe Ching-Kuang Shene has adapted one of these lenses , he may be able to give you advice.

Thanks Bosun! The little lever inside is definitely the aperture control and the one you pointed out is likely an outside access slot, perhaps that inner tube rotates along with whatever was controlling the aperture from within the camera. The scary thought I just had is that the mount is just epoxied in as I don’t seem to see any other ways to secure it from outside besides those bolts. I will reach out to Ching-Kuang, may be that video of disassembly I posted was his, there is a bit of a complex way of getting to the helicoid shown there but I may be stuck with the back end :-(

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500px

500px.com

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Thanks Bosun! The little lever inside is definitely the aperture control and the one you pointed out is likely an outside access slot, perhaps that inner tube rotates along with whatever was controlling the aperture from within the camera. The scary thought I just had is that the mount is just epoxied in as I don’t seem to see any other ways to secure it from outside besides those bolts. I will reach out to Ching-Kuang, may be that video of disassembly I posted was his, there is a bit of a complex way of getting to the helicoid shown there but I may be stuck with the back end :-(

My guess is that adaptor is not specifically for that lens and it has basically been bodged on. In the pic I posted there is protruding screw on the lens bayonet and I doubt there was a hole for that in the adaptor.

I suspect that mount has been pressed on and will take a bit of force to remove. You could try heating the mount to see if expansion will free it, that works wonders for stuck elements sometimes.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Thanks Bosun! The little lever inside is definitely the aperture control and the one you pointed out is likely an outside access slot, perhaps that inner tube rotates along with whatever was controlling the aperture from within the camera. The scary thought I just had is that the mount is just epoxied in as I don’t seem to see any other ways to secure it from outside besides those bolts. I will reach out to Ching-Kuang, may be that video of disassembly I posted was his, there is a bit of a complex way of getting to the helicoid shown there but I may be stuck with the back end :-(

My guess is that adaptor is not specifically for that lens and it has basically been bodged on. In the pic I posted there is protruding screw on the lens bayonet and I doubt there was a hole for that in the adaptor.

I suspect that mount has been pressed on and will take a bit of force to remove. You could try heating the mount to see if expansion will free it, that works wonders for stuck elements sometimes.

Thanks Bosun, I may get there although if I look at the pictures it may be that the aperture does not in fact open any wider so I may stay with the lens as is until I muster the will and the time to force it open and face the consequences. But it will itch me for sure. Silly question - what would you use to heat the aluminum- a heat gun or a mini torch? Heat gun is gentler but distributed, the blow torch is more precise but extreme. I suppose the other option is plastic bag and hot water but that is scary in a different way.

 

[Heritage Cameras]

My guess is that adaptor is not specifically for that lens and it has basically been bodged on. In the pic I posted there is protruding screw on the lens bayonet and I doubt there was a hole for that in the adaptor.

Yes, it looks to me like the external part of a T2 mount for Exakta. The three peripheral grub screws were original used to rotate the inner part of the mount to align the scales at the top. The screw protruding from the rear face of the Exakta mount is what the camera's lens lock lever latches on to.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Thanks Bosun, I may get there although if I look at the pictures it may be that the aperture does not in fact open any wider so I may stay with the lens as is until I muster the will and the time to force it open and face the consequences. But it will itch me for sure. Silly question - what would you use to heat the aluminum- a heat gun or a mini torch? Heat gun is gentler but distributed, the blow torch is more precise but extreme. I suppose the other option is plastic bag and hot water but that is scary in a different way.

What I normally try first is cloth soaked in hot water. My heating gives 60C water and in the past this has been enough to free all manner of stuck metallic items.

Quickly wring out the cloth (but not too much) and wrap it around the part in question. Leave it a second or two and then apply pressure. You have to try and aim for the moment where the outer bit has heated and expanded but the heat has not reached the inner.

It is kind of hard to explain, but once you have done it successfully you will know what I mean.

Heat guns apply very high heat in one area and you have to move it around like crazy so it is difficult to get the "all round heat" that you can apply in one go with a wet hot cloth.

Good luck!

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Thanks Bosun, I may get there although if I look at the pictures it may be that the aperture does not in fact open any wider so I may stay with the lens as is until I muster the will and the time to force it open and face the consequences. But it will itch me for sure. Silly question - what would you use to heat the aluminum- a heat gun or a mini torch? Heat gun is gentler but distributed, the blow torch is more precise but extreme. I suppose the other option is plastic bag and hot water but that is scary in a different way.

What I normally try first is cloth soaked in hot water. My heating gives 60C water and in the past this has been enough to free all manner of stuck metallic items.

Quickly wring out the cloth (but not too much) and wrap it around the part in question. Leave it a second or two and then apply pressure. You have to try and aim for the moment where the outer bit has heated and expanded but the heat has not reached the inner.

It is kind of hard to explain, but once you have done it successfully you will know what I mean.

Heat guns apply very high heat in one area and you have to move it around like crazy so it is difficult to get the "all round heat" that you can apply in one go with a wet hot cloth.

Good luck!

Wow, thanks very much, sounds like not too a rare occasion for you to develop the methodology. I will think a bit more on whether to attempt the disassemble or see if I like what pictures I get and let it be at least for now.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

My guess is that adaptor is not specifically for that lens and it has basically been bodged on. In the pic I posted there is protruding screw on the lens bayonet and I doubt there was a hole for that in the adaptor.

Yes, it looks to me like the external part of a T2 mount for Exakta. The three peripheral grub screws were original used to rotate the inner part of the mount to align the scales at the top. The screw protruding from the rear face of the Exakta mount is what the camera's lens lock lever latches on to.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Thanks Bosun, I may get there although if I look at the pictures it may be that the aperture does not in fact open any wider so I may stay with the lens as is until I muster the will and the time to force it open and face the consequences. But it will itch me for sure. Silly question - what would you use to heat the aluminum- a heat gun or a mini torch? Heat gun is gentler but distributed, the blow torch is more precise but extreme. I suppose the other option is plastic bag and hot water but that is scary in a different way.

What I normally try first is cloth soaked in hot water. My heating gives 60C water and in the past this has been enough to free all manner of stuck metallic items.

Quickly wring out the cloth (but not too much) and wrap it around the part in question. Leave it a second or two and then apply pressure. You have to try and aim for the moment where the outer bit has heated and expanded but the heat has not reached the inner.

It is kind of hard to explain, but once you have done it successfully you will know what I mean.

Heat guns apply very high heat in one area and you have to move it around like crazy so it is difficult to get the "all round heat" that you can apply in one go with a wet hot cloth.

Good luck!

So, I opened it up Did not heat just applied a bit more force and the T2 - exacta thing just screwed off. I disassembled the lens and cleaned it a bit although optics inside was in a very good shape, cleaned and relubricated the helicoid. Confirmed that the aperture can be moved now but not with the lens assembled. I think I perhaps could come up with a clamp-to-m42 but making a thing to control aperture is a bit difficult (the original modder wanted to get there too and I don’t know if they succeeded and something else later destroyed their approach or they did not succeed). The lens has become a bit cleaner I think, I will have to spend some more time with it but with the part of it open it will attract dust I think. I may put it into “future improvement projects” list.





comparing with original pictures I think the glass is cleaner
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https://500px.com/bc-foto