S1RII Chatter.....

[David V]

Like with most new high end cameras, there's a lot of hand wringing and hoopla as we approach general release. Most of this is driven by the measurbation nerds (and I say this jokingly), who need to analyze every last spec of grain in the noise pattern of the camera shot in the dark at 6400 or above.

If the science of speeds and feeds is what you ultimately buy a camera for, then by all means, do your thing. We all have our own approach to our passions in life.

The reality of the situation is that many of these test shots and footage are done with pre-release firmware on pre-release RAW converters. I fully expect those areas to improve, especially in that Panasonic generally does a good job with updates to correct and/or add capabilities withing the limitations of the hardware.

I'm all for sharp, beautifully rendered images that are vibrant. I get those with my current L mount gear, which is a mixture of Leica, Lumix and Sigma, but most cameras at this level, from any brand, are excellent these days.

When I go to many of the photography groups on Facebook or Instagram feeds, people are posting fantastic shots that are 75% composition and 25% camera rig quality and post processing prowess.

Im sure when the smoke clears the S1RII will be an excellent and well balanced tool for photography and video, despite the rhetoric.

Get out there....Shoot, create and enjoy.

 

[Off The Mark]

I don't think it is a bad camera. In fact, it is the perfect camera... for 2022.

Just after 6 years of waiting for an update, i think it is a bit underwhelming.

The sad fact is that we full-frame Panasonic shooters are at the mercy of off-the-shelf Sony sensors. Unless / until faster readout sensors from Tower Semi are available in full frame.

 

[Dino Anderson]

I agree with what you're saying. I read the various comparisons between the S1R.2 and other contemporary cameras and find the IQ differences to be minimal and largely irrelevant for real life use cases. In fact, I find all the cameras released in the past 5-10 years to perform more or less the same, IQ-wise.

All that said, when someone considers dropping a few grands for a new camera, it is understandable that they want the best their money can buy. I would do the same if I was buying a new camera now but I'm very happy with my S5.

 

[ncsakany]

If one says their photography suffers because of some ridiculous fractions of dynamic range, I would respectfully offer that one is the bottleneck and not the camera.

 

[georgehudetz]

Like with most new high end cameras, there's a lot of hand wringing and hoopla as we approach general release. Most of this is driven by the measurbation nerds (and I say this jokingly), who need to analyze every last spec of grain in the noise pattern of the camera shot in the dark at 6400 or above.

If the science of speeds and feeds is what you ultimately buy a camera for, then by all means, do your thing. We all have our own approach to our passions in life.

The reality of the situation is that many of these test shots and footage are done with pre-release firmware on pre-release RAW converters. I fully expect those areas to improve, especially in that Panasonic generally does a good job with updates to correct and/or add capabilities withing the limitations of the hardware.

I'm all for sharp, beautifully rendered images that are vibrant. I get those with my current L mount gear, which is a mixture of Leica, Lumix and Sigma, but most cameras at this level, from any brand, are excellent these days.

When I go to many of the photography groups on Facebook or Instagram feeds, people are posting fantastic shots that are 75% composition and 25% camera rig quality and post processing prowess.

Im sure when the smoke clears the S1RII will be an excellent and well balanced tool for photography and video, despite the rhetoric.

Get out there....Shoot, create and enjoy.

Well said.

 

[David V]

I don't think it is a bad camera. In fact, it is the perfect camera... for 2022.

Just after 6 years of waiting for an update, i think it is a bit underwhelming.

The sad fact is that we full-frame Panasonic shooters are at the mercy of off-the-shelf Sony sensors. Unless / until faster readout sensors from Tower Semi are available in full frame.

 

[vincentocat]

I just love my Lumix S Pro and Sigma lenses like the 28-45mm (this one is crazy good).
I also have some nice Sony GM and Zeiss lenses for my A7IV but I will wait a bit before upgrading my Sony. I want to see what Nikon will do with RED and the next Z9II or Z8II as I can adapt my lenses on Nikon Z cameras.
And for now the IBIS of both the Sony and Nikon cameras are not as good as Panasonic, even more when walking while recording, the lack of Open Gate is annoying for me too and I want to make raw video and we can't on Sony. The Z8 is also slightly heavy and I'm not a fan of the Nikon colors.

I don't shoot super fast sport photography, so the S1RII is the best choice for me right now as I need a very good IBIS and solid video/photo quality. But even then 10fps MS should be enough for most cases and there is a chance Panasonic adds a longer 20fps ES burst later.

People should think more about what is the most important, a bit more performance here and there or a better overall package and features. Also, the color science of a camera is at least as important for me than a slightly higher rolling shutter or DR performance. By example I could not stand the color science of the G9II as there was a slight yellow cast, it was a pain to correct in post when shooting videos because correcting also affected overall colors. The GH6 which was a worse camera when it comes to noise performance, DR and even IBIS had the best colors I've seen since a long time, to the point I kept this one over the G9II.

I think for people mainly doing photography and who are not committed on a system, there are better alternatives than the S1RII.
However for people doing both photo and video, the Lumix is really great and one of the best option.

 

[Off The Mark]

If one says their photography suffers because of some ridiculous fractions of dynamic range, I would respectfully offer that one is the bottleneck and not the camera.

The question isn't whether one's photography will suffer or not.

The question is whether it is worth the suffering one's bank account will endur to get what are either upgrades with significant restrictions, or regressions in some areas.

Certainly, if the S1R II ticks someone's boxes for photography or video needs, don't let me get in the way.

But as a Lumix shooter, after seeing the release of the S1R II, I feel less secure in the future of Panasonic remaining in the camera market. Time will tell, but I just don't see the S1R II becomin a particularly popular camera. It would have been the perfect camera in 2022.Now it is just kind of an also-ran in 2025.

Hope I am wrong.

 

[georgehudetz]

It would have been the perfect camera in 2022.Now it is just kind of an also-ran in 2025.

Why do you say that? Is it the lack of a stacked sensor?

 

[ncsakany]

I get you, I myself as a years-long S1R user was eyeing the S1RII, but ultimately decided it's not for me.

Doesn't take anything away from it being a great camera though; sure, there are compromises in areas that I'd have preferred not to see, but at the end of the day a competent artist will create fantastic output of their creative vision. I am not an artist so I'll take all the technological advancements that I can get, but am cognizant this is more like making up for my lack of skill than a problem with the camera performance.

 

[ElhanDobriv]

If one says their photography suffers because of some ridiculous fractions of dynamic range, I would respectfully offer that one is the bottleneck and not the camera.

The question isn't whether one's photography will suffer or not.

The question is whether it is worth the suffering one's bank account will endur to get what are either upgrades with significant restrictions, or regressions in some areas.

Certainly, if the S1R II ticks someone's boxes for photography or video needs, don't let me get in the way.

But as a Lumix shooter, after seeing the release of the S1R II, I feel less secure in the future of Panasonic remaining in the camera market. Time will tell, but I just don't see the S1R II becomin a particularly popular camera. It would have been the perfect camera in 2022.Now it is just kind of an also-ran in 2025.

Hope I am wrong.

 

[georgehudetz]

If one says their photography suffers because of some ridiculous fractions of dynamic range, I would respectfully offer that one is the bottleneck and not the camera.

The question isn't whether one's photography will suffer or not.

The question is whether it is worth the suffering one's bank account will endur to get what are either upgrades with significant restrictions, or regressions in some areas.

Certainly, if the S1R II ticks someone's boxes for photography or video needs, don't let me get in the way.

But as a Lumix shooter, after seeing the release of the S1R II, I feel less secure in the future of Panasonic remaining in the camera market. Time will tell, but I just don't see the S1R II becomin a particularly popular camera. It would have been the perfect camera in 2022.Now it is just kind of an also-ran in 2025.

Hope I am wrong.

There are other forums where L mount fans who enthusiastically put in pre orders have been cancelling one after another.

Really? I'm on that forum, and I only can recall one person who cancelled their pre-order. Doesn't mean there are not more, however. I do know there are several "on the fence" and several others who echo your sentiment of it not being interested in the upgrade, which is as expected.

I’d love a nicer EVF and that screen mechanism. But I’m not dropping £3,000 for that. The resolution would be nice but it’s not spectacular. I’ve no interest in 8K video. There’s undeniably some upgrades from an S5II that will appeal to some, but it’s not a particularly strong offering for high resolution photography.

As a primarily (but not only) landscape photographer, I am one of the people who was disappointed that they didn't use the 61 MP Sony sensor. You can find my posts on the other forum. But in the end, you have to realize that the S1RII is not a "photography first" camera. It's a hybrid, and they chose the sensor they thought was best for that task.

Once I realized that the S1RII wasn't going to have the 61 MP sensor, I felt dejected and spent some time looking at alternatives. However the only FF option with a significant resolution bump that I would be willing to pay for is the Sony a7RV. But I'm not a big Sony fan, and I wasn't looking forward to paying the cost for their GM lenses, nor do I like how they treat Sigma with regard to TCs and frame rates. So I'm not going there, and my pre-order of the S1RII is in process of being fulfilled.

I'd love to have the Leica SL3, but at that cost I'd just jump ship altogether and get a GFX 100S II. But that would mean I'd have to give up on any wildlife aspirations, and astro seemed questionable too. But wow, for landscape, I'm sure it would be amazing.

Now, for somebody moving up from crop or u4/3 to FF for landscape, the Sony a7RV would be an obvious target. But I hope they realize that those GM lenses are super expensive, and, from what I can see, their "mid-range" lenses are not very appealing. This is one of the great things about LUMIX for landscape work - their lenses like the 14-28, 24-105, and 70-300 are VERY good and reasonably light. Not as good as the S-Pro lenses, but still very good. And SO much lighter.

On top of that you've got the superior HR mode implementation on the LUMIX bodies.

So, anyway, for high-resolution photography, I think the S1RII does quite well competitively speaking. One just needs to be aware of all the tradeoffs. But certainly, I'd never fault somebody for buying an a7RV. Or an SL3. Or a GFX. Or, of course, any of the 40-to-50 MP FF bodies out there. They are all very good. But I find the S1RII a strong offering. Over time I'm convinced all this pre-release chatter will fade and the camera will stand up just fine as a photographer's camera.

 

[ElhanDobriv]

If one says their photography suffers because of some ridiculous fractions of dynamic range, I would respectfully offer that one is the bottleneck and not the camera.

The question isn't whether one's photography will suffer or not.

The question is whether it is worth the suffering one's bank account will endur to get what are either upgrades with significant restrictions, or regressions in some areas.

Certainly, if the S1R II ticks someone's boxes for photography or video needs, don't let me get in the way.

But as a Lumix shooter, after seeing the release of the S1R II, I feel less secure in the future of Panasonic remaining in the camera market. Time will tell, but I just don't see the S1R II becomin a particularly popular camera. It would have been the perfect camera in 2022.Now it is just kind of an also-ran in 2025.

Hope I am wrong.

There are other forums where L mount fans who enthusiastically put in pre orders have been cancelling one after another.

Really? I'm on that forum, and I only can recall one person who cancelled their pre-order. Doesn't mean there are not more, however. I do know there are several "on the fence" and several others who echo your sentiment of it not being interested in the upgrade, which is as expected.

I’d love a nicer EVF and that screen mechanism. But I’m not dropping £3,000 for that. The resolution would be nice but it’s not spectacular. I’ve no interest in 8K video. There’s undeniably some upgrades from an S5II that will appeal to some, but it’s not a particularly strong offering for high resolution photography.

As a primarily (but not only) landscape photographer, I am one of the people who was disappointed that they didn't use the 61 MP Sony sensor. You can find my posts on the other forum. But in the end, you have to realize that the S1RII is not a "photography first" camera. It's a hybrid, and they chose the sensor they thought was best for that task.

Once I realized that the S1RII wasn't going to have the 61 MP sensor, I felt dejected and spent some time looking at alternatives. However the only FF option with a significant resolution bump that I would be willing to pay for is the Sony a7RV. But I'm not a big Sony fan, and I wasn't looking forward to paying the cost for their GM lenses, nor do I like how they treat Sigma with regard to TCs and frame rates. So I'm not going there, and my pre-order of the S1RII is in process of being fulfilled.

I'd love to have the Leica SL3, but at that cost I'd just jump ship altogether and get a GFX 100S II. But that would mean I'd have to give up on any wildlife aspirations, and astro seemed questionable too. But wow, for landscape, I'm sure it would be amazing.

Now, for somebody moving up from crop or u4/3 to FF for landscape, the Sony a7RV would be an obvious target. But I hope they realize that those GM lenses are super expensive, and, from what I can see, their "mid-range" lenses are not very appealing. This is one of the great things about LUMIX for landscape work - their lenses like the 14-28, 24-105, and 70-300 are VERY good and reasonably light. Not as good as the S-Pro lenses, but still very good. And SO much lighter.

On top of that you've got the superior HR mode implementation on the LUMIX bodies.

So, anyway, for high-resolution photography, I think the S1RII does quite well competitively speaking. One just needs to be aware of all the tradeoffs. But certainly, I'd never fault somebody for buying an a7RV. Or an SL3. Or a GFX. Or, of course, any of the 40-to-50 MP FF bodies out there. They are all very good. But I find the S1RII a strong offering. Over time I'm convinced all this pre-release chatter will fade and the camera will stand up just fine as a photographer's camera.

 

[georgehudetz]

If one says their photography suffers because of some ridiculous fractions of dynamic range, I would respectfully offer that one is the bottleneck and not the camera.

The question isn't whether one's photography will suffer or not.

The question is whether it is worth the suffering one's bank account will endur to get what are either upgrades with significant restrictions, or regressions in some areas.

Certainly, if the S1R II ticks someone's boxes for photography or video needs, don't let me get in the way.

But as a Lumix shooter, after seeing the release of the S1R II, I feel less secure in the future of Panasonic remaining in the camera market. Time will tell, but I just don't see the S1R II becomin a particularly popular camera. It would have been the perfect camera in 2022.Now it is just kind of an also-ran in 2025.

Hope I am wrong.

There are other forums where L mount fans who enthusiastically put in pre orders have been cancelling one after another.

Really? I'm on that forum, and I only can recall one person who cancelled their pre-order. Doesn't mean there are not more, however. I do know there are several "on the fence" and several others who echo your sentiment of it not being interested in the upgrade, which is as expected.

I’d love a nicer EVF and that screen mechanism. But I’m not dropping £3,000 for that. The resolution would be nice but it’s not spectacular. I’ve no interest in 8K video. There’s undeniably some upgrades from an S5II that will appeal to some, but it’s not a particularly strong offering for high resolution photography.

As a primarily (but not only) landscape photographer, I am one of the people who was disappointed that they didn't use the 61 MP Sony sensor. You can find my posts on the other forum. But in the end, you have to realize that the S1RII is not a "photography first" camera. It's a hybrid, and they chose the sensor they thought was best for that task.

Once I realized that the S1RII wasn't going to have the 61 MP sensor, I felt dejected and spent some time looking at alternatives. However the only FF option with a significant resolution bump that I would be willing to pay for is the Sony a7RV. But I'm not a big Sony fan, and I wasn't looking forward to paying the cost for their GM lenses, nor do I like how they treat Sigma with regard to TCs and frame rates. So I'm not going there, and my pre-order of the S1RII is in process of being fulfilled.

I'd love to have the Leica SL3, but at that cost I'd just jump ship altogether and get a GFX 100S II. But that would mean I'd have to give up on any wildlife aspirations, and astro seemed questionable too. But wow, for landscape, I'm sure it would be amazing.

Now, for somebody moving up from crop or u4/3 to FF for landscape, the Sony a7RV would be an obvious target. But I hope they realize that those GM lenses are super expensive, and, from what I can see, their "mid-range" lenses are not very appealing. This is one of the great things about LUMIX for landscape work - their lenses like the 14-28, 24-105, and 70-300 are VERY good and reasonably light. Not as good as the S-Pro lenses, but still very good. And SO much lighter.

On top of that you've got the superior HR mode implementation on the LUMIX bodies.

So, anyway, for high-resolution photography, I think the S1RII does quite well competitively speaking. One just needs to be aware of all the tradeoffs. But certainly, I'd never fault somebody for buying an a7RV. Or an SL3. Or a GFX. Or, of course, any of the 40-to-50 MP FF bodies out there. They are all very good. But I find the S1RII a strong offering. Over time I'm convinced all this pre-release chatter will fade and the camera will stand up just fine as a photographer's camera.

If the S1RII is not a “photography first” camera, then where is the Lumix photo-centric camera?

There isn't one. They've been very clear for some time now that, going forward, they are going to deliver hybrid solutions. That started with the S5II.

And, for the record, the S1RII is a much better photography camera than the original S1R, at least in most ways. Or at least, it seems that way to me right now. My opinion might change once I have the new body in my hands, but I doubt it.

--
http://georgehudetzphotography.smugmug.com/
Capture One LUMIX FF feature request thread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4658107#forum-post-66298057

 

[Off The Mark]

It would have been the perfect camera in 2022.Now it is just kind of an also-ran in 2025.

Why do you say that? Is it the lack of a stacked sensor?

If released in 2022, it wouldn't have to comepete with later cameras like the Nikon Z8 and Sony a7R V, nor that of the Canon R5 II nor the R6 II (although the first generation of those two Canon bodies were already released).

There are some areas where the S1R II outshines the competition, other areas where it lacks. But it would most certainly be a lot more appealing if it had been released three years ago. (And they probably could have sold it for more as well back then.)

Again, if the camera does what someone needs, then please don't let my words dissuade them from buying it.

If I seem sour, it's because I just don't know how Panasonic can expect to survive with 4% of camera market share by releasing cameras that are a day late and a dollar short.

 

[georgehudetz]

It would have been the perfect camera in 2022.Now it is just kind of an also-ran in 2025.

Why do you say that? Is it the lack of a stacked sensor?

If released in 2022, it wouldn't have to comepete with later cameras like the Nikon Z8 and Sony a7R V, nor that of the Canon R5 II nor the R6 II (although the first generation of those two Canon bodies were already released).

There are some areas where the S1R II outshines the competition, other areas where it lacks. But it would most certainly be a lot more appealing if it had been released three years ago. (And they probably could have sold it for more as well back then.)

Again, if the camera does what someone needs, then please don't let my words dissuade them from buying it.

If I seem sour, it's because I just don't know how Panasonic can expect to survive with 4% of camera market share by releasing cameras that are a day late and a dollar short.

Well, we shall see, but I think your assessment is a bit harsh, at least for photography.

A quick check using the DPR Comparison files shows that the S1RII easily outperforms the R5 II in the +6 stop torture test. The R5 II is much noisier (using the EFC files; E-shutter files are even worse) - it performs more like the OG S1R. So perhaps the Canon is the body that is failing to keep pace?

Not going to compare it to an R6 II as that's not a direct competitor. Better to compare that to the S5II.

As for DR when compared to Nikon and Sony, I think most of what has been posted thus far is basically rubbish from a real-world perspective; my comparison shows very little difference in actual shadow noise (other than the Canon).

Yes, the 60 MP sensor in the Sony is appealing for sheer resolution, as are the stacked sensors in the Nikon & Canon for sheer speed. The S5II sits between those two. Hopefully it's a formula that meets the sales target goals that Panasonic has set. Lots of folks saying it's the best hybrid on the market, but that could just be early-stage hype.

Anyway, the market will decide, of course.

 

[Off The Mark]

It would have been the perfect camera in 2022.Now it is just kind of an also-ran in 2025.

Why do you say that? Is it the lack of a stacked sensor?

If released in 2022, it wouldn't have to comepete with later cameras like the Nikon Z8 and Sony a7R V, nor that of the Canon R5 II nor the R6 II (although the first generation of those two Canon bodies were already released).

There are some areas where the S1R II outshines the competition, other areas where it lacks. But it would most certainly be a lot more appealing if it had been released three years ago. (And they probably could have sold it for more as well back then.)

Again, if the camera does what someone needs, then please don't let my words dissuade them from buying it.

If I seem sour, it's because I just don't know how Panasonic can expect to survive with 4% of camera market share by releasing cameras that are a day late and a dollar short.

Well, we shall see, but I think your assessment is a bit harsh, at least for photography.

A quick check using the DPR Comparison files shows that the S1RII easily outperforms the R5 II in the +6 stop torture test. The R5 II is much noisier (using the EFC files; E-shutter files are even worse) - it performs more like the OG S1R. So perhaps the Canon is the body that is failing to keep pace?

Not going to compare it to an R6 II as that's not a direct competitor. Better to compare that to the S5II.

As for DR when compared to Nikon and Sony, I think most of what has been posted thus far is basically rubbish from a real-world perspective; my comparison shows very little difference in actual shadow noise (other than the Canon).

Yes, the 60 MP sensor in the Sony is appealing for sheer resolution, as are the stacked sensors in the Nikon & Canon for sheer speed. The S5II sits between those two. Hopefully it's a formula that meets the sales target goals that Panasonic has set. Lots of folks saying it's the best hybrid on the market, but that could just be early-stage hype.

Anyway, the market will decide, of course.

I am sure the S1R II is better in some ways than the competing models from Sony / Canon / Nikon.

But when you are running a race and are WAY BEHIND, picking up the pace a little bit means you will still lose, just by slightly less.

I am just concerned that didn't do enough with the S1R II to really change it's economic fortunes.

No doubt, for dedicated L-Mount shooters, th S1R II is a substantial upgrade over cameras like the S1 and S5 original. I would say it is a substantial upgrade over the S5 II / S5 IIX, but those two cameras offer excellent bang-for-buck, so maybe it isn't as compelling an upgrade.

Hoping I am wrong. Hoping Panasonic sells a LOT of them.

 

[ElhanDobriv]

cameras that are a day late and a dollar short.

I think you are spot on.

They have been far too slow in product development and release cycle. They just don’t have many competitive products anymore IMO.

 

[peterc1835]

I have just taken delivery of my S1Rii and am in the process of trying to set it up. Can anyone tell me how to turn off the IBIS when I have it mounted on a tripod?

 

[georgehudetz]

I have just taken delivery of my S1Rii and am in the process of trying to set it up. Can anyone tell me how to turn off the IBIS when I have it mounted on a tripod?

Congrats!

If your lens has a stab switch on the barrel, just turn it off. Otherwise, you need to do a bit of menu diving. On my older body, it's on the first main page, but then several sub-pages down, under the flash settings (lightning bolt icons).

Do you mind me asking in which country you live?

--
http://georgehudetzphotography.smugmug.com/
Capture One LUMIX FF feature request thread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4658107#forum-post-66298057