Compact pocket camera with 600mm equivalent for birding

[tetsumo]

I'm searching for an available new compact pocket camera with 600mm equivalent telephoto lens, something like the Panasonic ZS80 or similar. I can't seem to find anything new on Amazon.

Camera will be used mostly for birding. Preferably with wifi and 4k video recording.

Thanks!

 

[Planterz]

I think you're pretty much limited to the Panasonic ZS80 or the Sony HX99. I'm sure you're already aware of the limitations of the small 1/2.3" sensor and compact bodies with these cameras.

Sony is a good deal smaller, and 18MP compared to the 20 of the Panasonic.

Sony's viewfinder pops out, and has lower resolution, but it might be better despite that because the Panasonic's is a field sequential type, where it displays each color sequentially really fast; this gives the impression of full color, but when you blink or move it quickly it can have a "tear" effect where you see the individual colors.

Both have 10fps burst speed, but the Sony is a bit faster at 7-10fps (depending on jpg/raw capture) with continuous autofocus compared to 6 for the Panasonic.

The Sony doesn't seem to be available new from the usual vendors either.

 

[number_5]

Canon PowerShot SX 740 HS

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

I'm searching for an available new compact pocket camera with 600mm equivalent telephoto lens, something like the Panasonic ZS80 or similar. I can't seem to find anything new on Amazon.

Camera will be used mostly for birding. Preferably with wifi and 4k video recording.

Similar to what the prior response reported, there don't seem to be many options. I think you pretty much have to have a viewfinder for this use, and that plus pocketable plus 600mm equivalent leaves you AFAIK only the Nikon A1000 in addition to the already-mentioned Panasonic ZS80 and Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX99--plus their predecessor models.

But I have to wonder: have you seen many high-quality photos of the sort you want to capture that were taken with such cameras? At the long end, the lenses on these cameras are going to be like the equivalent of f/36 or something. Diffraction is likely to put a major limit on lens performance, and in anything less than strong lighting, low shutter speeds and/or noise are going to be problems. In other words, I tend to suspect that getting good birding photos with such cameras will be difficult / good results will be few and far between. But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

Canon PowerShot SX 740 HS

Have you used an SX740 HS, or any similar camera that lacks a viewfinder, to photograph distant birds? I'd think that is extraordinarily difficult, but my birding photography experience runs more troubleshooting for / helping my parents (who used to do it a fair amount) than doing it myself.

 

[number_5]

Canon PowerShot SX 740 HS

Have you used an SX740 HS, or any similar camera that lacks a viewfinder, to photograph distant birds? I'd think that is extraordinarily difficult, but my birding photography experience runs more troubleshooting for / helping my parents (who used to do it a fair amount) than doing it myself.

Baggers can't be choosers. It's an option, and you can get one from Amazon.

 

[robbo2]

Maybe you can get a Canon SX740 or SX730, but the lack of a viewfinder will make effective birding more difficult. I know you asked about a compact pocket camera, but I were going to advise somebody with an interest in birding, I would suggest a larger body - a Nikon P600 or P610. They zoom out to 1440mm No, they're not great for birds in flight, but I have taken good shots of perched birds with such cameras. A Panasonic FZ150 or FZ200, available used on Ebay, has a great ergonomics, and isn't very heavy. They both go out to 600mm at full zoom and are available for under $200 used on Ebay. I don't know about the availability of such cameras in Argentina, but if you have some big camera shops, maybe they have some used models on sale. I don't know if any of the cameras mentioned is great at taking sharp shots of birds in flight, but if it were me, I would go with a bridge camera. They're better bang for the buck.

Here's a link to a DPReview article about superzooms in 2015.

2015 Superzoom Camera Roundup: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

 

[SeeingSomeThingsMissingMany]

720mm, 4k video with crop, 1/2.3 sensor, flippy screen. I had this Tz90 aka Zs70.

 

[tetsumo]

thanks for the answers! I will start to look for them

 

[Planterz]

I'm searching for an available new compact pocket camera with 600mm equivalent telephoto lens, something like the Panasonic ZS80 or similar. I can't seem to find anything new on Amazon.

Camera will be used mostly for birding. Preferably with wifi and 4k video recording.

Similar to what the prior response reported, there don't seem to be many options. I think you pretty much have to have a viewfinder for this use, and that plus pocketable plus 600mm equivalent leaves you AFAIK only the Nikon A1000 in addition to the already-mentioned Panasonic ZS80 and Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX99--plus their predecessor models.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Nikon A1000. Like the others, it might be hard to find new. Here's a video I watched not too long ago that compares the bevy of superzoom pocket cameras.

But I have to wonder: have you seen many high-quality photos of the sort you want to capture that were taken with such cameras? At the long end, the lenses on these cameras are going to be like the equivalent of f/36 or something. Diffraction is likely to put a major limit on lens performance, and in anything less than strong lighting, low shutter speeds and/or noise are going to be problems. In other words, I tend to suspect that getting good birding photos with such cameras will be difficult / good results will be few and far between. But maybe I'm wrong.

The man has a Canon R6 MII and R7 with the appropriate birding telephotos. I'm sure he's aware of the limitations of these pocket cameras.

 

[tetsumo]

The man has a Canon R6 MII and R7 with the appropriate birding telephotos. I'm sure he's aware of the limitations of these pocket cameras.

Yes, is for a friend that has an R8 with a 100-500mm and makes lots of walks and wants something pocketeable.

 

[Planterz]

The man has a Canon R6 MII and R7 with the appropriate birding telephotos. I'm sure he's aware of the limitations of these pocket cameras.

Yes, is for a friend that has an R8 with a 100-500mm and makes lots of walks and wants something pocketeable.

I was honestly half-guessing that it actually wasn't for you, but a friend/family member. ;-)

Unfortunately it looks like the ZS80, HX99, and A1000 are all out of production, and since they're still desirable, won't be easily found new without some exorbitant price gouging, or even used for a price that's reasonable compared to what they originally sold for.

 

[tetsumo]

thanks for the answer, sad to see them long gone with no new models coming.

 

[Bob A L]

I'm searching for an available new compact pocket camera with 600mm equivalent telephoto lens, something like the Panasonic ZS80 or similar. I can't seem to find anything new on Amazon.

Camera will be used mostly for birding. Preferably with wifi and 4k video recording.

Similar to what the prior response reported, there don't seem to be many options. I think you pretty much have to have a viewfinder for this use, and that plus pocketable plus 600mm equivalent leaves you AFAIK only the Nikon A1000 in addition to the already-mentioned Panasonic ZS80 and Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX99--plus their predecessor models.

But I have to wonder: have you seen many high-quality photos of the sort you want to capture that were taken with such cameras? At the long end, the lenses on these cameras are going to be like the equivalent of f/36 or something. Diffraction is likely to put a major limit on lens performance, and in anything less than strong lighting, low shutter speeds and/or noise are going to be problems. In other words, I tend to suspect that getting good birding photos with such cameras will be difficult / good results will be few and far between. But maybe I'm wrong.

This is one of the places that equivalent aperture is of no consequence. With a small sensor camera you are typically using large apertures for photos taken in lower than adequate lighting conditions. In these conditions a f2.8 lens on a 1/2.3 sensor is just as effective at lighting the photo as f2.8 is with a FF sensor. The photo "may" exhibit the dof of a f/36 on a FF sensor, but that's usually a good thing for wildlife.

 

[Bob A L]

I have a ZS100 that with gimmickry will reach out to 750mm in FF equiv. but it is a 1" sensor so has some room to crop. And the ZS200 is twice the focal length to start with.

 

[Planterz]

I have a ZS100 that with gimmickry will reach out to 750mm in FF equiv. but it is a 1" sensor so has some room to crop. And the ZS200 is twice the focal length to start with.

I was thinking maybe the ZS200 wouldn't be a bad choice. The 360mm max is a bit short, but you do get the advantage of the 1" sensor. The smaller 1/2.3" sensors with the increased optical range will probably edge out the 1" at 360mm and digital "zoom" or other post-processing, but I don't know. No doubt there's some point in the zoom ranges where the smaller sensor with more optical zoom becomes better than the 1" sensor with digital zoom. I'm sure someone out there has made comparisons.

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

I'm searching for an available new compact pocket camera with 600mm equivalent telephoto lens, something like the Panasonic ZS80 or similar. I can't seem to find anything new on Amazon.

Camera will be used mostly for birding. Preferably with wifi and 4k video recording.

Similar to what the prior response reported, there don't seem to be many options. I think you pretty much have to have a viewfinder for this use, and that plus pocketable plus 600mm equivalent leaves you AFAIK only the Nikon A1000 in addition to the already-mentioned Panasonic ZS80 and Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX99--plus their predecessor models.

But I have to wonder: have you seen many high-quality photos of the sort you want to capture that were taken with such cameras? At the long end, the lenses on these cameras are going to be like the equivalent of f/36 or something. Diffraction is likely to put a major limit on lens performance, and in anything less than strong lighting, low shutter speeds and/or noise are going to be problems. In other words, I tend to suspect that getting good birding photos with such cameras will be difficult / good results will be few and far between. But maybe I'm wrong.

This is one of the places that equivalent aperture is of no consequence. With a small sensor camera you are typically using large apertures for photos taken in lower than adequate lighting conditions. In these conditions a f2.8 lens on a 1/2.3 sensor is just as effective at lighting the photo as f2.8 is with a FF sensor. The photo "may" exhibit the dof of a f/36 on a FF sensor, but that's usually a good thing for wildlife.

I disagree. There is no "may" about the fact that with one of these cameras--1/2.3" sensor, f/6.4 or f/6.9 maximum aperture at the long end--you get the DoF and the diffraction of f/36 on a FF sensor. I've owned a variety of small sensor / long-ish zoom cameras over the years, and none of them, with their maximum apertures at the long end of f/32 or smaller, produced anything like the sharpness / resolution I'd consider satisfactory for birds. Obviously that subjective quality evaluation is me and my technique and my standards, and YMMV.

As for the other point, "just as effective at lighting the photo": yes and no. At the same settings (e.g., ISO 400, 1/250 s, f/6.4) you should get equally-exposed / equally-bright images with either size sensor. But because the total light used to capture that image is so much less with the 1/2.3" sensor, there's a lot more noise and a lot less dynamic range.

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

I have a ZS100 that with gimmickry will reach out to 750mm in FF equiv. but it is a 1" sensor so has some room to crop. And the ZS200 is twice the focal length to start with.

This is not correct. The ZS100 has a 1" sensor and a zoom equivalent to a 25-250mm, with a maximum aperture of f/2.8–5.9. With that combination, anything that provides 750mm in FF equiv.--what you call "gimmickry"--necessarily uses a massive crop off the sensor. Effectively, the image at '750mm' is using not all of the 13.2x8.8mm sensor, but a 4.4x2.9mm crop from it--much smaller effective sensor area than e,g. the ZS80's 1/2.3" sensor. So you're capturing an image with the a field of view equivalent to 750mm on FF, but at an effective aperture equivalent to f/48 on FF in terms of diffraction and light-gathering.

The ZS200 is a little better, but no miracle-worker. It has a 1" sensor and a zoom equivalent to a 24-360mm, with a maximum aperture of f/3.3–6.4. So its 'real' zoom maximum is 1.44x, not 2x, that of the ZS100, with a slightly smaller maximum aperture at the long end. If you effectively--in-camera or otherwise--crop that down to 600mm FF equivalent, you're using a 7.9x5.3mm area of the sensor, just a bit bigger than e.g. the ZS80's sensor. The maximum aperture is equivalent, in diffraction and light-gathering, to f/29 on FF.

 

[Bob A L]

I understand how the ZS100 works as I have owned and used one for about 2 years now. Please realize that we don't all operate by the same standards. The. Panasonic ZS100 has several different modes to increase effective equivalent focal lengths. It offers crops of the sensor in two steps from 20mp to 10mp and 5mp, and then offers two additional digital methods to increase effective equivalent focal lengths. I have shared photos on dpr and several FB communities at up to 750mm in FF equivalent fields of view. Under decent lighting conditions I and many others are quite satisfied with these. You would likely not be satisfied with the quality, but many are. You can go to the Panasonic compact cameras forum here at dpr and see many examples of photos from this camera taken by skilled photographers, beginners, and common hobbyists and judge what you feel about there quality.