Panasonic Hardware in Below Freezing Environments?

[anonyMFT]

In thinking through potential trips for the next few years, many involve colder destinations. I have used my cameras and lenses without issue in light precipitation near freezing, but some trips will be below freezing, potentially as low as -40 degrees (F or C, take your pick!) in some cases.

Does anyone have any experience on how Panasonic gear handles environments below freezing? In my reading up on the challenges of cold weather photography, I found the forum is full of successful outings with Olympus bodies/lenses but very few anecdotes involving Panasonic. I am hoping to hear that my GX9 will do just fine, but as it is not weather-sealed, I am concerned that it might not fare well. Most of my lenses claim some degree of weather-sealing, so I am more optimistic there (the P 7-14/4 being a notable exception).

Please share any thoughts you have on the matter. If the GX9 won't do well, what are my alternatives? Do I have to jump to a G9i/ii? Petition Panasonic for a GX10 with weather-sealing?

I am also open to any other advice regarding cold weather photography. Some gems I have already found include:

• Bring plenty of spare batteries and keep them warm.
• Put your camera/lens in an airtight bag when returning to a warm building or vehicle until the equipment reaches ambient temperature.
• Dress for the weather, especially good gloves and boots.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hypoxi]

I have never been in -40c with a camera, but -25c has been no problem with any of my lumix cameras (gx7,g85&g9) battery life is shorter and the screen is slower. I usually don't bring my cameras with me when its colder then that, as it's no fun to handle the cold bodies. Below -30 the screens sometimes stop working as they should (its the same on the oly em5iii) but the cameras continues to take pictures.

 

[mmartel]

In thinking through potential trips for the next few years, many involve colder destinations. I have used my cameras and lenses without issue in light precipitation near freezing, but some trips will be below freezing, potentially as low as -40 degrees (F or C, take your pick!) in some cases.

I've only been in cold as low as -6 C / 20 F with my G95 and kit 12-60mm f3.5-5.6, which I've used for several hours while skiing/snowboarding on multiple occasions. My G95 was carried on a sling/strap over one shoulder and had continuous exposure to snow, freezing rain, and cold.

Other than less battery life, I didn't have any problems. That model is officially rated for 32–104°F (0–40°C).

Even the "completely-useless-for-moving-subjects" ;-) CDAF autofocus did fine.







The G9 and G9ii are officially rated for -10°C to 40°C (-14°F to 104°F), which is the same as the OM1 ii. I'm not aware of any cameras that are rated below -10 C / -14 F, in fact, from any makers.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be in colder weather than -10 C, but I also wouldn't have any major concerns about taking my G9 or G95 into such conditions other than me freezing.

Personally, I would never take a camera like the GX9 into such conditions as I have no confidence in the dials and buttons holding up to the slightest amount of ice or moisture. I've had too many bad experiences with the GX85 and G100 to have any faith in the non-weather-sealed bodies - but I've thus far been very impressed with the dependability of the Lumix weather sealed bodies.

YMMV.

 

[anonyMFT]

I have never been in -40c with a camera, but -25c has been no problem with any of my lumix cameras (gx7,g85&g9) battery life is shorter and the screen is slower. I usually don't bring my cameras with me when its colder then that, as it's no fun to handle the cold bodies. Below -30 the screens sometimes stop working as they should (its the same on the oly em5iii) but the cameras continues to take pictures.

I'm glad to hear that -25C is manageable. That should cover most of my possible locations over the next few years. I plan on keeping the batteries and my hands as warm as possible to maximize the duration of each.

One destination mentioned the possible low of -40, but I don't know if that's an outlier or a common occurrence. From your experiences it sounds like the camera won't work, but neither will I, haha.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

 

[GreenEyesGTA]

I'm in Canada and frequently out in sub-zero temperatures... I find my GH3 is pretty invulnerable to the cold. Don't feel comfortable taking my much smaller and more fragile GX850 out in those conditions.

 

[jcr4486]

In thinking through potential trips for the next few years, many involve colder destinations. I have used my cameras and lenses without issue in light precipitation near freezing, but some trips will be below freezing, potentially as low as -40 degrees (F or C, take your pick!) in some cases.

Does anyone have any experience on how Panasonic gear handles environments below freezing? In my reading up on the challenges of cold weather photography, I found the forum is full of successful outings with Olympus bodies/lenses but very few anecdotes involving Panasonic. I am hoping to hear that my GX9 will do just fine, but as it is not weather-sealed, I am concerned that it might not fare well. Most of my lenses claim some degree of weather-sealing, so I am more optimistic there (the P 7-14/4 being a notable exception).

Please share any thoughts you have on the matter. If the GX9 won't do well, what are my alternatives? Do I have to jump to a G9i/ii? Petition Panasonic for a GX10 with weather-sealing?

I am also open to any other advice regarding cold weather photography. Some gems I have already found include:

• Bring plenty of spare batteries and keep them warm.
• Put your camera/lens in an airtight bag when returning to a warm building or vehicle until the equipment reaches ambient temperature.
• Dress for the weather, especially good gloves and boots.

Thanks in advance!

All my pana bodies worked well under freezing temperatures, even the ones not weather sealing. but never tested them that low... G3 /G6 /GX8 /G9 sometimes I do not know the exact temp outside, but -15ºC/-20ºC I know to have done with GX8 / G9

note: I am not recommending to use non sealed equipment in those conditions, with G3 /G6 /GX8 I have abused them at the end of life when was already planed to replace, including with new camera on the way, that did not arrive on time for trip, and second body always available nearby, to see their limits, but was never able to kill them, they still exist and running flawlessly on other hands

 

[Hypoxi]

I have never been in -40c with a camera, but -25c has been no problem with any of my lumix cameras (gx7,g85&g9) battery life is shorter and the screen is slower. I usually don't bring my cameras with me when its colder then that, as it's no fun to handle the cold bodies. Below -30 the screens sometimes stop working as they should (its the same on the oly em5iii) but the cameras continues to take pictures.

I'm glad to hear that -25C is manageable. That should cover most of my possible locations over the next few years. I plan on keeping the batteries and my hands as warm as possible to maximize the duration of each.

One destination mentioned the possible low of -40, but I don't know if that's an outlier or a common occurrence. From your experiences it sounds like the camera won't work, but neither will I, haha.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

It sounds like a good idea, the camera is most probably fine, a friend's a7rii used to stop working below -15c after a wile but always came back to life once it got warmer, my own sony worked better but had terrible battery life in subzero degrees so can be differences even on the same model. But with lumix I think you should be fine as 3 od 3 bodies has worked without problems in cold temperatures.

I would worry for Any moving part when it gets down to -40 , like the shutter, or focus motors in lenses. I live in the north part of Sweden and here there is some days below 30 every winter but it's seldom at -40. This winter when it was below 35 for a while a lot of things like cars, electronics, phones and so on starten to break. But it should be no problem to snap a few pictures as it takes a while for the camera to get cold, but would not leave it outside for Aurora or astro photography and so on.

 

[anonyMFT]

In thinking through potential trips for the next few years, many involve colder destinations. I have used my cameras and lenses without issue in light precipitation near freezing, but some trips will be below freezing, potentially as low as -40 degrees (F or C, take your pick!) in some cases.

I've only been in cold as low as -6 C / 20 F with my G95 and kit 12-60mm f3.5-5.6, which I've used for several hours while skiing/snowboarding on multiple occasions. My G95 was carried on a sling/strap over one shoulder and had continuous exposure to snow, freezing rain, and cold.

Other than less battery life, I didn't have any problems. That model is officially rated for 32–104°F (0–40°C).

Even the "completely-useless-for-moving-subjects" ;-) CDAF autofocus did fine.

The G9 and G9ii are officially rated for -10°C to 40°C (-14°F to 104°F), which is the same as the OM1 ii. I'm not aware of any cameras that are rated below -10 C / -14 F, in fact, from any makers.

Personally, I wouldn't want to be in colder weather than -10 C, but I also wouldn't have any major concerns about taking my G9 or G95 into such conditions other than me freezing.

Personally, I would never take a camera like the GX9 into such conditions as I have no confidence in the dials and buttons holding up to the slightest amount of ice or moisture. I've had too many bad experiences with the GX85 and G100 to have any faith in the non-weather-sealed bodies - but I've thus far been very impressed with the dependability of the Lumix weather sealed bodies.

YMMV.

Thanks for the detailed response! I've been okay with the GX9 in much more mild conditions (near-freezing, light drizzle), but like you said, I am not confident that it's up for much beyond that.

Your examples with the G95 definitely put that on my radar. Weather-sealed, similar enough to the GX9 to be familiar (and even uses the same batteries as an added bonus), and quite a bit cheaper than the G9i or ii that first came to mind.

The most extreme of the trips, Yellowstone in winter, is of course the one with the greatest possible sights/wildlife. Even if we assume the G9s can handle a littler lower than advertised, that 40F worst case is still a stretch, though.

I think it's safe to assume that my GX9 won't cut it below freezing, so I am either renting a body a few times or purchasing a new one. I haven't rented before, but I suspect as I look into it, renting a few times for a week here and there will quickly add up to a comparable cost to buying.

Much to think about, thanks!

 

[jalywol]

Your examples with the G95 definitely put that on my radar. Weather-sealed, similar enough to the GX9 to be familiar (and even uses the same batteries as an added bonus), and quite a bit cheaper than the G9i or ii that first came to mind.

I'd also recommend the G95 (make sure you get the G95D version, which has a better EVF...not many regular G95 are out there anymore, but just check when you order).

The G95 is a great option. I've owned both the GX9 and the G95D, and overall, for your purposes, the G95 will be a much better option. In cold weather the grip will be much easier to hold, the IBIS is considerably better, the EVF is much better, and it also has Dual IS 2, not 1. The weather sealing is, so to speak, the icing on the cake. AND it's smaller and less expensive than either the G9 or G9II....

-J

 

[Jim Cox]

I wander around taking pictures at -20C but have used the camera at -40C. This is equal to -40F.

I put the camera in a large zip lock bag and keep it under my jacket. I then pull it out and take it out of the bag to use it. After taking pictures I put it back in the plastic bag and seal it before putting under my jacket again. The battery life is much shorter than normal. You have to hold your breath to look at the viewfinder. If you fog it up it is very difficult to use the camera after. If you are out in the sun with snow it is very difficult to see the viewing screen. After I get home I will bring the camera inside keeping it in the bag for a couple of hours to warm up before opening it up.




Refineries with ice fog at sunrise, I think this was at -40c.


Ice fog at -36C






Hoar Frost at about -25C

I hope this helps.

Good luck.

Jim

 

[alcelc]

Sorry that I am late to this party :-( .

In thinking through potential trips for the next few years, many involve colder destinations. I have used my cameras and lenses without issue in light precipitation near freezing, but some trips will be below freezing, potentially as low as -40 degrees (F or C, take your pick!) in some cases.

Not low as -40C, but I had a problem free shooting in the sub freezing temperature in Japan (Hokkaido) and Northeast China in winter win the past. It was around -5~-2C in Japan and lowest -25C in China.

My gear for the NE China trip were GX1, 7-14 f/4, 14-45, 45-200 and GF3 + 14-140 the non WR f/3.5 mk-I. They were all not WR without special protection, e.g. no camera winter sleeve etc.

Does anyone have any experience on how Panasonic gear handles environments below freezing? In my reading up on the challenges of cold weather photography, I found the forum is full of successful outings with Olympus bodies/lenses but very few anecdotes involving Panasonic.

Likely because Panasonic is relatively a minor sector of the M43 community?

I am hoping to hear that my GX9 will do just fine, but as it is not weather-sealed, I am concerned that it might not fare well. Most of my lenses claim some degree of weather-sealing, so I am more optimistic there (the P 7-14/4 being a notable exception).

I am heading to another trip to the cold NE China next January for the Ice & Snow World 2025. It would likely be well in -20 or colder without doubt. We are preparing to carry GX9 (it should still be the main camera for my wife), G85 (for mine) and GX850 (our backup).

7-14 f/4 is one of my standard travelling lenses. It did well last time, should be OK this time too.

Please share any thoughts you have on the matter. If the GX9 won't do well, what are my alternatives? Do I have to jump to a G9i/ii? Petition Panasonic for a GX10 with weather-sealing?

Snow is not the biggest risk IMHO, but the condensation. Snow flakes on the camera and lens could be wipe clean easily before it would melt to become water!

Despite of the spec, electronic gear could work under much lower temperature that you might expect. The battery life indeed is the biggest problem. Bring as many battery as you have.

Last time under -25C, I emptied 3 batteries for each of the GX1 and GF3 every day (around total 3~4 hours of shooting). I carried 4 batteries for each of them. This time, I prepare to carry 6 batteries for GX9 and 3 (or 4?) batteries for G85.

I am also open to any other advice regarding cold weather photography. Some gems I have already found include:

• Bring plenty of spare batteries and keep them warm.

I keep the spare batteries in the inside pocket of my down jacket. The emptied battery were stored there too and usually after sometimes, the emptied batteries would have juicy again for some more shots before they emptied again .

• Put your camera/lens in an airtight bag when returning to a warm building or vehicle until the equipment reaches ambient temperature.

Yes...

• Dress for the weather, especially good gloves and boots.

I learnt from last trip to NE China to use chemical warmer bags as much as possible.

Under the expectation of wearing bulky winter gloves, I originally prepared to use stylus pen to control my cameras by the Touch functions!

However, I found out by accident that by putting hand chemical warmer bags inside my gloves (on the palm side), my hands were warm enough and I was able to control my cameras with thin insulated gloves for normal operation .

While it is a general warning not to contact with those warmers with naked skin, under the -20~-25C environment the warmth generated by these warmers should be just enough to protect us from the cold and far from hurting/ burning my palms.

Not scientific but I felt that the warmth generated by them might help to keep the camera a little warmer too (the grip section where the battery is usually there) which might benefit the normal operation of the camera.

Thanks in advance!

My 2 cents.

 

[jcr4486]

Does anyone have any experience on how Panasonic gear handles environments below freezing? In my reading up on the challenges of cold weather photography, I found the forum is full of successful outings with Olympus bodies/lenses but very few anecdotes involving Panasonic.

Likely because Panasonic is relatively a minor sector of the M43 community?

it is not, it's misconception due to number of post from olympus / OMD users on this forum, but if you see market share recently shared in the news here, Panasonic is ahead ... in Top 5 together with Sony, Canon, Nikon, Fuji... Maybe Pana users are just happy shooting and less in forums ?

• Dress for the weather, especially good gloves and boots.

I learnt from last trip to NE China to use chemical warmer bags as much as possible.

Under the expectation of wearing bulky winter gloves, I originally prepared to use stylus pen to control my cameras by the Touch functions!

However, I found out by accident that by putting hand chemical warmer bags inside my gloves (on the palm side), my hands were warm enough and I was able to control my cameras with thin insulated gloves for normal operation .

While it is a general warning not to contact with those warmers with naked skin, under the -20~-25C environment the warmth generated by these warmers should be just enough to protect us from the cold and far from hurting/ burning my palms.

Not scientific but I felt that the warmth generated by them might help to keep the camera a little warmer too (the grip section where the battery is usually there) which might benefit the normal operation of the camera.

Thanks in advance!

My 2 cents.

I use the heat company gloves and same brand heating pads, the gloves have a specific pocket for the pads, works like a charm (I am not affiliated neither sponsored by the brand)

they also have special area proper for the touch function / screens, what helps sometimes, but I mainly operate mechanically and not so much on screen/touch

 

[anonyMFT]

Thank you all for the tips and success stories!

I've been slowly procuring things over the last few months (thank you holiday sales!) and I think I am in a good place regarding layers and equipment. I snagged a G95D after mmartel and jalywol's compelling case for it and really think it is a worthwhile investment/upgrade for these kinds of outings.

Also, to correct myself and avoid confusing anyone else considering a similar path, it turns out the G95D and GX9 do not use the same batteries. I had to procure a handful of new batteries to go with it, oops.

Speaking of batteries, I also procured a dummy battery/USB cord that I am thinking I may try to use as a means of prolonging camera uptime. Keep the power bank in my jacket to keep it warm and run the cord up the neck or out the sleeve? Anyone ever try something like this? Does this help avoid the power drain of the cold, or will the exposed cable just be harder for electrons to go through and have the same end result? Will I just drive myself crazy with that cable flapping about, or worse yet unplugging during key moments?

My first cold weather trip, Yellowstone, is fast approaching and I am really looking forward to seeing that park in it's wintery glory. Thanks again to all who replied, I hope I put your wisdom to good use!

 

[alcelc]

I was just back from a 11 days trip to NE China to experience the snow.

I was there 10 years ago experienced lowest -25°C. Unfortunately it was a warm winter this time. Despite I visited countryside a lot more instead of mainly city touring last time, the lowest was among high -20°C zone only (as per my digital thermometer) :-( .

I used G85 (same battery BLC-12 as G95), GX9 for my wife & GX85 (same battery as GX9) was our backup.

We carried 4 batteries for G85 (1 OEM & 3 generic), 6 batteries for GX9 & GX85 (1 OEM, very old already & 5 generic).

As per our experience on shooting in warmer zone, for similar quantity of shots (200~400) I would need 1 battery for G85 and 3 batteries for GX9/85. During this trip, I needed 3 batteries (2 emptied) for G85 and GX9 needed 5 batteries (emptied 4) per day on average. I shot a lot more 4K video (few minutes max each) on G85 whereas GX9 shot still only.

Wishing the above would be useful to you.

In cold regions temperature affect the chemicals using in batteries. As long as the power bank would keep warm constantly, cold might affect the performance less (I am powering my warm vest by a 10,000mAh power bank which seems doing very normal during the trip).

Wiring: considering the bluky winter clothes, tethering camera with an USB cable might sound very inconvenience on movability or connectivity. Not to mention the proposed wiring through sleeve or something similar.

My 2 cents.

 

[1000DTL]

This guy took a GH4 to the South Pole.

 

[Regor250]

I'd say it depends. There probably isn't a camera in the world that will work reliably, if at all, when the body and its components temperature reach -40C. It stands to simple common sense to keep the camera above freezing between shoots. At this temperature, most likely all lubricants will be hard as a rock!

 

[fcna72]

For what it's worth the gx85 worked flawlessly for a week at up to -15 in a recent trip in china (including long morning /evening sessions).

However my 12/60 Lumix lens (not Leica) focus motor died suddenly after a morning session at -5/-10. It wasn't that old or overused so as some pointed above, this may not be the best thing to do.

 

[John A A]

Only an hour or so at a time G85 works at -10C. I'm thinking of using only electronic shutter.

 

[JosephScha]

I have a G9 II and I have brought it out into freezing temperatures. It operated just fine, although cold will affect battery life.

 

[Wboz88]

I wander around taking pictures at -20C but have used the camera at -40C. This is equal to -40F.

I put the camera in a large zip lock bag and keep it under my jacket. I then pull it out and take it out of the bag to use it. After taking pictures I put it back in the plastic bag and seal it before putting under my jacket again. The battery life is much shorter than normal. You have to hold your breath to look at the viewfinder. If you fog it up it is very difficult to use the camera after. If you are out in the sun with snow it is very difficult to see the viewing screen. After I get home I will bring the camera inside keeping it in the bag for a couple of hours to warm up before opening it up.


Refineries with ice fog at sunrise, I think this was at -40c.


Ice fog at -36C


Hoar Frost at about -25C

I hope this helps.

Good luck.

Jim

I think you have shared the best advice. And also nice photos

Keep the camera warm by keeping it with you. Inside jacket is a good idea. imho. Pocket is ok too. Keeping it warm eliminates moisture problems when you go indoors too. Don't keep your camera in a cold bag dangling from your body in the cold just because "that's how i always done it".

Think about your car. If you drive it when below freezing it works ok. Is it happy? Most people can tell it is not, mechanically, until the components warm up.

I know some photos like astro or time lapse need you to leave camera outdoors a long time and that is a separate set of advice.