High ISO NR on a Z7 2 Question

[rpps]

I was using my camera yesterday in a very dark forest some photos were shot with an ISO of 12800, as I shoot RAW I was expecting having to use Noise Reduction in Lightroom. But to my surprise the photos had no noise but were overly smoothed out.

I went into my cameras menu and found that High ISO NR was set to normal, I quickly turned it off as I like to do NR in editing. I didn't think it would be activated when shooting RAW only Jpeg.

I was wondering what option do others use, on or off.

 

[wrx03ppp]

Hi

i discovered similar with my z8 and lightroom classic. I think that lightroom uses the noise reduction settings embedded in the raw file when it imports the image. I added a preset to zero the LR noise settings that I can select on import. That way I can have NR left to normal in-camera in case I want to make jpgs.

 

[frankd783]

High ISO NR takes simply a second dark photo and subtracts that form the original one to get rid of thermal noise and hot pixels etc.

Detailed explanation see here: https://photographylife.com/long-exposure-noise-reduction

Do you use compressed RAW?

 

[Thomerik]

High ISO NR takes simply a second dark photo and subtracts that form the original one to get rid of thermal noise and hot pixels etc.

Detailed explanation see here: https://photographylife.com/long-exposure-noise-reduction

Do you use compressed RAW?

 

[Nebido]

You are mixing things up here.

You are talking about Long Exposure NR = dark frame subtraction, the OP is talking about the inbody High ISO NR.

Two different things and also with their own menu settings.

High ISO NR

onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com

Long Exposure NR

onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com

 

[Thomerik]

I was using my camera yesterday in a very dark forest some photos were shot with an ISO of 12800, as I shoot RAW I was expecting having to use Noise Reduction in Lightroom. But to my surprise the photos had no noise but were overly smoothed out.

I went into my cameras menu and found that High ISO NR was set to normal, I quickly turned it off as I like to do NR in editing. I didn't think it would be activated when shooting RAW only Jpeg.

I was wondering what option do others use, on or off.

I'm guessing you have chosen to import the camera settings to Lightroom. Or maybe that was the default. You can change that to whatever you like. Lightroom is simply cranking up the manual noise reduction sliders based on your NR and ISO settings. Personally I like to have my camera settings be imported, since this will give me another suggestion for white balance (as shot).

Beware that if you leave the NR off and import the camera settings, it will still apply a tint bit of manual NR, which will increase depending on your ISO. At 100 ISO it will set the manual color NR to 7, and the luminance to either 0 or 1. I actually like this personally, as this will eliminate any subtle amount of noise that can appear in several images, without really harming the details. You wouldn't want to waste your time using AI on those.

However, you need to remember to either lower the luminance NR when shooting at higher ISO, or to use the AI NR (which will replace manual denoise and set them to 0 automatically). It can be easy to overlook the need for AI denoise for a better image when the increased luminance denoise slider is masking some of the noise, which will also harm the details when unnoticed, even in an image that doesn't necessarily need denoising to begin with.

 

[Ernie Misner]

I was using my camera yesterday in a very dark forest some photos were shot with an ISO of 12800, as I shoot RAW I was expecting having to use Noise Reduction in Lightroom. But to my surprise the photos had no noise but were overly smoothed out.

I went into my cameras menu and found that High ISO NR was set to normal, I quickly turned it off as I like to do NR in editing. I didn't think it would be activated when shooting RAW only Jpeg.

I was wondering what option do others use, on or off.

It doesn't really matter. Lr will often use your NR settings, and simply open the detail panel and turn the amount slider down to your liking. It's still a raw file and yours to edit as you see fit.

 

[TheSoaringSprite]

I was using my camera yesterday in a very dark forest some photos were shot with an ISO of 12800, as I shoot RAW I was expecting having to use Noise Reduction in Lightroom. But to my surprise the photos had no noise but were overly smoothed out.

I went into my cameras menu and found that High ISO NR was set to normal, I quickly turned it off as I like to do NR in editing. I didn't think it would be activated when shooting RAW only Jpeg.

I was wondering what option do others use, on or off.

It depends on any individual's post-processing preference, whether they shoot RAW or JPEG, or both, but personally I turn off all the in-camera settings like noise reduction, lens correction, etc. I shoot RAW and post-process in DxO PhotoLab 7, so none of my in-camera settings are implemented on import anyway and applying that stuff in-camera could slow down the shooting process (I read that somewhere long ago).

If you use Nikon's free RAW processor like NX Studio, then perhaps leaving that on can save you some time, but the noise reduction in-camera and in NX Studio is pretty poor IMO.

As others have pointed out, Lightroom now has the option of importing in-camera settings.

P.S. I'm quite impressed with DxO's PureRAW4 NR. ISO 45,600 not looking so bad on a 46 megapixel sensor!



--
http://www.dreamsourcestudio.com

 

[Krummj]

If you turn off the setting that tells Lightroom to use the camera settings (or approximate it) then you will get Adobe defaults, and you will have your detail and noise back. That's what I do. Having it set to import with camera settings is too confusing, and sliders end up all over the place, not just noise reduction, but sharpening, clarity and more.







--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jkrumm/
https://juneauphotographs.org/

 

[ericbowles]

I was using my camera yesterday in a very dark forest some photos were shot with an ISO of 12800, as I shoot RAW I was expecting having to use Noise Reduction in Lightroom. But to my surprise the photos had no noise but were overly smoothed out.

I went into my cameras menu and found that High ISO NR was set to normal, I quickly turned it off as I like to do NR in editing. I didn't think it would be activated when shooting RAW only Jpeg.

I was wondering what option do others use, on or off.

There are several things that can affect noise reduction and how it shows up in LR Classic.

In the camera, High ISO NR can be set, left to Auto, or turned Off. While Auto works, with some cameras using High ISO NR slows the maximum frame rate. I don't know if that is the case with the Z7ii.

If your LR Preferences are set to Camera Settings, the many of the camera settings translate into a preset applied to LR. Normally you want to use the Camera Settings, so this would mean the camera setting for High ISO is applied as Noise Reduction in LR. The choice of Camera Settings also will apply values for LR Sharpening, but I find those settings are more appropriate for Portraits than something like Landscapes or Wildlife. The Masking values in LR are set to Zero, so you will want to apply some masking.

Note that the specific values for Sharpening and Noise in LR will vary based on the ISO used. At higher ISO levels such as ISO 12,800, the amount of noise reduction is much higher than at a low ISO.

You can override all of these default settings - it's just a starting point.

All of this is a change from a few years ago. Nikon is the one creating these values, and they are embedded in the NEF file as an embedded XMP. Adobe uses these values to populate the Profile (Picture Control), Highlights and Shadows (ADL), Lens Distortion, Sharpening, and Noise Reduction.

 

[SCoombs]

I was using my camera yesterday in a very dark forest some photos were shot with an ISO of 12800, as I shoot RAW I was expecting having to use Noise Reduction in Lightroom. But to my surprise the photos had no noise but were overly smoothed out.

I went into my cameras menu and found that High ISO NR was set to normal, I quickly turned it off as I like to do NR in editing. I didn't think it would be activated when shooting RAW only Jpeg.

I was wondering what option do others use, on or off.

There are several things that can affect noise reduction and how it shows up in LR Classic.

In the camera, High ISO NR can be set, left to Auto, or turned Off. While Auto works, with some cameras using High ISO NR slows the maximum frame rate. I don't know if that is the case with the Z7ii.

If your LR Preferences are set to Camera Settings, the many of the camera settings translate into a preset applied to LR. Normally you want to use the Camera Settings, so this would mean the camera setting for High ISO is applied as Noise Reduction in LR. The choice of Camera Settings also will apply values for LR Sharpening, but I find those settings are more appropriate for Portraits than something like Landscapes or Wildlife. The Masking values in LR are set to Zero, so you will want to apply some masking.

Note that the specific values for Sharpening and Noise in LR will vary based on the ISO used. At higher ISO levels such as ISO 12,800, the amount of noise reduction is much higher than at a low ISO.

You can override all of these default settings - it's just a starting point.

All of this is a change from a few years ago. Nikon is the one creating these values, and they are embedded in the NEF file as an embedded XMP. Adobe uses these values to populate the Profile (Picture Control), Highlights and Shadows (ADL), Lens Distortion, Sharpening, and Noise Reduction.

Interesting information. I didn't realize this. This seems like at least a partial answer to questions I have posted about getting much softer than expected photos in LR vs. NX Studio/Camera-JPEGs in threads such as this one: https://bcgforums.com/threads/lightroom-consistently-soften-up-my-nikon-files.37484/

This does answer that question a bit, however I still find LR's default sharpening settings to be inadequate to match/approximate what Nikon is producing.

In any case as far as NR goes I just did two quick shots one with High ISO NR set to Normal (which is what it had been at) and the other set to Off. With normal and an auto-ISO of 1800, LR set luminance to 57 and color to 25. With it off and the ISO up slightly (but still about the same) to 2000, LR set luminance to 13 and color to 7.

I like this a lot better. My only complaint is that the image clearly needs more color NR and really I've never found color NR to be that destructive to detail, so I wish there were a way to import with the lower luminance value but the higher color value. In other words, this doesn't seem to change much as before I was always manually dropping the luminance and it seems like with this I'd have to manually push the color NR. In fact, it may be worse for me because I find luminance NR intuitive to work with manually but color NR to be easier to leave to the default.

 

[Thomerik]

I was using my camera yesterday in a very dark forest some photos were shot with an ISO of 12800, as I shoot RAW I was expecting having to use Noise Reduction in Lightroom. But to my surprise the photos had no noise but were overly smoothed out.

I went into my cameras menu and found that High ISO NR was set to normal, I quickly turned it off as I like to do NR in editing. I didn't think it would be activated when shooting RAW only Jpeg.

I was wondering what option do others use, on or off.

There are several things that can affect noise reduction and how it shows up in LR Classic.

In the camera, High ISO NR can be set, left to Auto, or turned Off. While Auto works, with some cameras using High ISO NR slows the maximum frame rate. I don't know if that is the case with the Z7ii.

If your LR Preferences are set to Camera Settings, the many of the camera settings translate into a preset applied to LR. Normally you want to use the Camera Settings, so this would mean the camera setting for High ISO is applied as Noise Reduction in LR. The choice of Camera Settings also will apply values for LR Sharpening, but I find those settings are more appropriate for Portraits than something like Landscapes or Wildlife. The Masking values in LR are set to Zero, so you will want to apply some masking.

Note that the specific values for Sharpening and Noise in LR will vary based on the ISO used. At higher ISO levels such as ISO 12,800, the amount of noise reduction is much higher than at a low ISO.

You can override all of these default settings - it's just a starting point.

All of this is a change from a few years ago. Nikon is the one creating these values, and they are embedded in the NEF file as an embedded XMP. Adobe uses these values to populate the Profile (Picture Control), Highlights and Shadows (ADL), Lens Distortion, Sharpening, and Noise Reduction.

Interesting information. I didn't realize this. This seems like at least a partial answer to questions I have posted about getting much softer than expected photos in LR vs. NX Studio/Camera-JPEGs in threads such as this one: https://bcgforums.com/threads/lightroom-consistently-soften-up-my-nikon-files.37484/

This does answer that question a bit, however I still find LR's default sharpening settings to be inadequate to match/approximate what Nikon is producing.

In any case as far as NR goes I just did two quick shots one with High ISO NR set to Normal (which is what it had been at) and the other set to Off. With normal and an auto-ISO of 1800, LR set luminance to 57 and color to 25. With it off and the ISO up slightly (but still about the same) to 2000, LR set luminance to 13 and color to 7.

I like this a lot better. My only complaint is that the image clearly needs more color NR and really I've never found color NR to be that destructive to detail, so I wish there were a way to import with the lower luminance value but the higher color value. In other words, this doesn't seem to change much as before I was always manually dropping the luminance and it seems like with this I'd have to manually push the color NR. In fact, it may be worse for me because I find luminance NR intuitive to work with manually but color NR to be easier to leave to the default.

Hmm. I actually have the same experience, now that I think about it. I have noticed the color noise when boosting the exposure in post sometimes, despite the minor manual NR applied from NR set to off in camera. Do you think it's only really a problem in images that might require AI denoise for better results anyways (where you crank up the ISO or underexpose)? I'm guessing that if you're shooting a lot of moving subjects, then you don't want to spend time AI denoising everything, but personally I don't really shoot a lot of moving subjects. Do you still identify color noise at lower ISO with color NR set to 7?

Leaving it to normal NR and pulling down the luminance after import might actually be a better solution, as you say.

 

[ericbowles]

I was using my camera yesterday in a very dark forest some photos were shot with an ISO of 12800, as I shoot RAW I was expecting having to use Noise Reduction in Lightroom. But to my surprise the photos had no noise but were overly smoothed out.

I went into my cameras menu and found that High ISO NR was set to normal, I quickly turned it off as I like to do NR in editing. I didn't think it would be activated when shooting RAW only Jpeg.

I was wondering what option do others use, on or off.

There are several things that can affect noise reduction and how it shows up in LR Classic.

In the camera, High ISO NR can be set, left to Auto, or turned Off. While Auto works, with some cameras using High ISO NR slows the maximum frame rate. I don't know if that is the case with the Z7ii.

If your LR Preferences are set to Camera Settings, the many of the camera settings translate into a preset applied to LR. Normally you want to use the Camera Settings, so this would mean the camera setting for High ISO is applied as Noise Reduction in LR. The choice of Camera Settings also will apply values for LR Sharpening, but I find those settings are more appropriate for Portraits than something like Landscapes or Wildlife. The Masking values in LR are set to Zero, so you will want to apply some masking.

Note that the specific values for Sharpening and Noise in LR will vary based on the ISO used. At higher ISO levels such as ISO 12,800, the amount of noise reduction is much higher than at a low ISO.

You can override all of these default settings - it's just a starting point.

All of this is a change from a few years ago. Nikon is the one creating these values, and they are embedded in the NEF file as an embedded XMP. Adobe uses these values to populate the Profile (Picture Control), Highlights and Shadows (ADL), Lens Distortion, Sharpening, and Noise Reduction.

Interesting information. I didn't realize this. This seems like at least a partial answer to questions I have posted about getting much softer than expected photos in LR vs. NX Studio/Camera-JPEGs in threads such as this one: https://bcgforums.com/threads/lightroom-consistently-soften-up-my-nikon-files.37484/

This does answer that question a bit, however I still find LR's default sharpening settings to be inadequate to match/approximate what Nikon is producing.

In any case as far as NR goes I just did two quick shots one with High ISO NR set to Normal (which is what it had been at) and the other set to Off. With normal and an auto-ISO of 1800, LR set luminance to 57 and color to 25. With it off and the ISO up slightly (but still about the same) to 2000, LR set luminance to 13 and color to 7.

I like this a lot better. My only complaint is that the image clearly needs more color NR and really I've never found color NR to be that destructive to detail, so I wish there were a way to import with the lower luminance value but the higher color value. In other words, this doesn't seem to change much as before I was always manually dropping the luminance and it seems like with this I'd have to manually push the color NR. In fact, it may be worse for me because I find luminance NR intuitive to work with manually but color NR to be easier to leave to the default.

In the LR Preferences, you can set up camera profiles that vary NR and Sharpening including being able to set specific values based on the ISO used. So you would get one value at ISO 100, another at ISO 800, and another at ISO 3200, etc. If you choose to set up these values, when you plug in values for specific ISO levels, Adobe LR interpolates values between the ISO levels you specify. So in your Preferences if you input the values for the ISO levels above, LR would determine values for 400, 640, 1100, etc.

 

[Krummj]

Just make a preset with only the noise preference checked. Then it's one click when you need it.

 

[SCoombs]

I was using my camera yesterday in a very dark forest some photos were shot with an ISO of 12800, as I shoot RAW I was expecting having to use Noise Reduction in Lightroom. But to my surprise the photos had no noise but were overly smoothed out.

I went into my cameras menu and found that High ISO NR was set to normal, I quickly turned it off as I like to do NR in editing. I didn't think it would be activated when shooting RAW only Jpeg.

I was wondering what option do others use, on or off.

There are several things that can affect noise reduction and how it shows up in LR Classic.

In the camera, High ISO NR can be set, left to Auto, or turned Off. While Auto works, with some cameras using High ISO NR slows the maximum frame rate. I don't know if that is the case with the Z7ii.

If your LR Preferences are set to Camera Settings, the many of the camera settings translate into a preset applied to LR. Normally you want to use the Camera Settings, so this would mean the camera setting for High ISO is applied as Noise Reduction in LR. The choice of Camera Settings also will apply values for LR Sharpening, but I find those settings are more appropriate for Portraits than something like Landscapes or Wildlife. The Masking values in LR are set to Zero, so you will want to apply some masking.

Note that the specific values for Sharpening and Noise in LR will vary based on the ISO used. At higher ISO levels such as ISO 12,800, the amount of noise reduction is much higher than at a low ISO.

You can override all of these default settings - it's just a starting point.

All of this is a change from a few years ago. Nikon is the one creating these values, and they are embedded in the NEF file as an embedded XMP. Adobe uses these values to populate the Profile (Picture Control), Highlights and Shadows (ADL), Lens Distortion, Sharpening, and Noise Reduction.

Interesting information. I didn't realize this. This seems like at least a partial answer to questions I have posted about getting much softer than expected photos in LR vs. NX Studio/Camera-JPEGs in threads such as this one: https://bcgforums.com/threads/lightroom-consistently-soften-up-my-nikon-files.37484/

This does answer that question a bit, however I still find LR's default sharpening settings to be inadequate to match/approximate what Nikon is producing.

In any case as far as NR goes I just did two quick shots one with High ISO NR set to Normal (which is what it had been at) and the other set to Off. With normal and an auto-ISO of 1800, LR set luminance to 57 and color to 25. With it off and the ISO up slightly (but still about the same) to 2000, LR set luminance to 13 and color to 7.

I like this a lot better. My only complaint is that the image clearly needs more color NR and really I've never found color NR to be that destructive to detail, so I wish there were a way to import with the lower luminance value but the higher color value. In other words, this doesn't seem to change much as before I was always manually dropping the luminance and it seems like with this I'd have to manually push the color NR. In fact, it may be worse for me because I find luminance NR intuitive to work with manually but color NR to be easier to leave to the default.

In the LR Preferences, you can set up camera profiles that vary NR and Sharpening including being able to set specific values based on the ISO used. So you would get one value at ISO 100, another at ISO 800, and another at ISO 3200, etc. If you choose to set up these values, when you plug in values for specific ISO levels, Adobe LR interpolates values between the ISO levels you specify. So in your Preferences if you input the values for the ISO levels above, LR would determine values for 400, 640, 1100, etc.

But does this allow import with camera settings and only varying the things you want to vary?

Also, where can I find this? I just went looking and can find the option to import with any of the regular develop presets, but not anything like this.

 

[ericbowles]

I was using my camera yesterday in a very dark forest some photos were shot with an ISO of 12800, as I shoot RAW I was expecting having to use Noise Reduction in Lightroom. But to my surprise the photos had no noise but were overly smoothed out.

I went into my cameras menu and found that High ISO NR was set to normal, I quickly turned it off as I like to do NR in editing. I didn't think it would be activated when shooting RAW only Jpeg.

I was wondering what option do others use, on or off.

There are several things that can affect noise reduction and how it shows up in LR Classic.

In the camera, High ISO NR can be set, left to Auto, or turned Off. While Auto works, with some cameras using High ISO NR slows the maximum frame rate. I don't know if that is the case with the Z7ii.

If your LR Preferences are set to Camera Settings, the many of the camera settings translate into a preset applied to LR. Normally you want to use the Camera Settings, so this would mean the camera setting for High ISO is applied as Noise Reduction in LR. The choice of Camera Settings also will apply values for LR Sharpening, but I find those settings are more appropriate for Portraits than something like Landscapes or Wildlife. The Masking values in LR are set to Zero, so you will want to apply some masking.

Note that the specific values for Sharpening and Noise in LR will vary based on the ISO used. At higher ISO levels such as ISO 12,800, the amount of noise reduction is much higher than at a low ISO.

You can override all of these default settings - it's just a starting point.

All of this is a change from a few years ago. Nikon is the one creating these values, and they are embedded in the NEF file as an embedded XMP. Adobe uses these values to populate the Profile (Picture Control), Highlights and Shadows (ADL), Lens Distortion, Sharpening, and Noise Reduction.

Interesting information. I didn't realize this. This seems like at least a partial answer to questions I have posted about getting much softer than expected photos in LR vs. NX Studio/Camera-JPEGs in threads such as this one: https://bcgforums.com/threads/lightroom-consistently-soften-up-my-nikon-files.37484/

This does answer that question a bit, however I still find LR's default sharpening settings to be inadequate to match/approximate what Nikon is producing.

In any case as far as NR goes I just did two quick shots one with High ISO NR set to Normal (which is what it had been at) and the other set to Off. With normal and an auto-ISO of 1800, LR set luminance to 57 and color to 25. With it off and the ISO up slightly (but still about the same) to 2000, LR set luminance to 13 and color to 7.

I like this a lot better. My only complaint is that the image clearly needs more color NR and really I've never found color NR to be that destructive to detail, so I wish there were a way to import with the lower luminance value but the higher color value. In other words, this doesn't seem to change much as before I was always manually dropping the luminance and it seems like with this I'd have to manually push the color NR. In fact, it may be worse for me because I find luminance NR intuitive to work with manually but color NR to be easier to leave to the default.

In the LR Preferences, you can set up camera profiles that vary NR and Sharpening including being able to set specific values based on the ISO used. So you would get one value at ISO 100, another at ISO 800, and another at ISO 3200, etc. If you choose to set up these values, when you plug in values for specific ISO levels, Adobe LR interpolates values between the ISO levels you specify. So in your Preferences if you input the values for the ISO levels above, LR would determine values for 400, 640, 1100, etc.

But does this allow import with camera settings and only varying the things you want to vary?

Also, where can I find this? I just went looking and can find the option to import with any of the regular develop presets, but not anything like this.

This is something you setup in Preferences. You can create presets that are automatically applied upon Import depending on the ISO level of an individual image.

Here is a video that is a little older but may help. YouTube has a lot of videos on Preferences and you want the one that is ISO specific. Julieanne Kost may have something and you can check with Lightroom Queen as well.

 

[Thomerik]

Interesting information. I didn't realize this. This seems like at least a partial answer to questions I have posted about getting much softer than expected photos in LR vs. NX Studio/Camera-JPEGs in threads such as this one: https://bcgforums.com/threads/lightroom-consistently-soften-up-my-nikon-files.37484/

This does answer that question a bit, however I still find LR's default sharpening settings to be inadequate to match/approximate what Nikon is producing.

In any case as far as NR goes I just did two quick shots one with High ISO NR set to Normal (which is what it had been at) and the other set to Off. With normal and an auto-ISO of 1800, LR set luminance to 57 and color to 25. With it off and the ISO up slightly (but still about the same) to 2000, LR set luminance to 13 and color to 7.

I like this a lot better. My only complaint is that the image clearly needs more color NR and really I've never found color NR to be that destructive to detail, so I wish there were a way to import with the lower luminance value but the higher color value. In other words, this doesn't seem to change much as before I was always manually dropping the luminance and it seems like with this I'd have to manually push the color NR. In fact, it may be worse for me because I find luminance NR intuitive to work with manually but color NR to be easier to leave to the default.

I found this one interesting.

https://photographylife.com/color-noise-reduction

Personally I think I would just let it apply a tiny bit of reduction on lower ISO images (camera NR set to off), and either reduce luminance or use AI above a certain level. Judging by this article (and a test I just did), applying too much manual color NR also seem to have some real downsides, even at numbers like 25. AI should do better in those cases. I am using the Z6 myself though, so if you're using a higher MP camera, color NR of 7 at low ISO might be enough for me, while for you the story might be different.