Bad time for a Z8? Panamoz?

[sirhawkeye64]

Hello

I've never been able to stretch for a Z8, despite really wanting to move from D500 to mirrorless with great AF. I have Z6, 14-30 and 24-120 already. I was speaking to some photographers I met out and about and surprisingly, lots of people were using Panamoz. I am based in England, UK.

I never considered this as I like to go to suppliers I know locally. It seems Panamoz though the Z8 is around £2800. My D500 would sell for around £500, bringing the Z8 in to affordable territory for me now.

Trustpilot gives Panamoz a fantastic rating, so I assume it's fairly safe to use them. I just imagine the servicing/repairs, Nikon may turn you away? Or would Nikon repair it, but not under warranty of course.

My main question really - is now a bad time to buy a Z8 from Panamoz? Will the Z6iii release soon cause the Z8 price to notably drop off in the next 3-6 months do you believe? I'm not sure it will, as they appear based on rumors anyway to be different beasts.

Would you hold off for the announcement in case something better value than the Z8 comes along?

Would you imagine the Panamoz ones have had the repairs regarding the strap lug and things?

Personally I would avoid them myself. Some have claimed very good service and got products as describe and good value, others have reported negative stories.

Granted I may pay full price from some place like B&H or worse, BestBuy, but at least their customer service (ie. getting what you paid for and not risk getting a used unit for example) is far far less as they are more careful about this. Some of these smaller resellers have had a bad reputation (not specifically this company per-se but in general) with sending out things that were wrong or perhaps even the bait-and-switch tactic (they say it's new, but you get a used one, and then they offer you a discount for example).

I don't think the Z8 is going to drop anymore so if you want one I would buy it now while it's $200 off still. 2800 in USD is probably about $3200 which is about what refurbished or used ones sell for, so I'd be skeptical. At the very least, it's probably grey market.

 

[primeshooter]

Hello

I've never been able to stretch for a Z8, despite really wanting to move from D500 to mirrorless with great AF. I have Z6, 14-30 and 24-120 already. I was speaking to some photographers I met out and about and surprisingly, lots of people were using Panamoz. I am based in England, UK.

I never considered this as I like to go to suppliers I know locally. It seems Panamoz though the Z8 is around £2800. My D500 would sell for around £500, bringing the Z8 in to affordable territory for me now.

Trustpilot gives Panamoz a fantastic rating, so I assume it's fairly safe to use them. I just imagine the servicing/repairs, Nikon may turn you away? Or would Nikon repair it, but not under warranty of course.

My main question really - is now a bad time to buy a Z8 from Panamoz? Will the Z6iii release soon cause the Z8 price to notably drop off in the next 3-6 months do you believe? I'm not sure it will, as they appear based on rumors anyway to be different beasts.

Would you hold off for the announcement in case something better value than the Z8 comes along?

Would you imagine the Panamoz ones have had the repairs regarding the strap lug and things?

Personally I would avoid them myself. Some have claimed very good service and got products as describe and good value, others have reported negative stories.

Granted I may pay full price from some place like B&H or worse, BestBuy, but at least their customer service (ie. getting what you paid for and not risk getting a used unit for example) is far far less as they are more careful about this. Some of these smaller resellers have had a bad reputation (not specifically this company per-se but in general) with sending out things that were wrong or perhaps even the bait-and-switch tactic (they say it's new, but you get a used one, and then they offer you a discount for example).

I don't think the Z8 is going to drop anymore so if you want one I would buy it now while it's $200 off still. 2800 in USD is probably about $3200 which is about what refurbished or used ones sell for, so I'd be skeptical. At the very least, it's probably grey market.

I'm gonna say this because they earned it. Panamoz, have better customer service than any shop I have ever been to in my life. I don't say this lightly. They reply to emails within hours at most, Tina is very helpful and any problem I've ever had - they sort it no question. Panamoz do not send out used gear.

 

[sirhawkeye64]

Hello

I've never been able to stretch for a Z8, despite really wanting to move from D500 to mirrorless with great AF. I have Z6, 14-30 and 24-120 already. I was speaking to some photographers I met out and about and surprisingly, lots of people were using Panamoz. I am based in England, UK.

I never considered this as I like to go to suppliers I know locally. It seems Panamoz though the Z8 is around £2800. My D500 would sell for around £500, bringing the Z8 in to affordable territory for me now.

Trustpilot gives Panamoz a fantastic rating, so I assume it's fairly safe to use them. I just imagine the servicing/repairs, Nikon may turn you away? Or would Nikon repair it, but not under warranty of course.

My main question really - is now a bad time to buy a Z8 from Panamoz? Will the Z6iii release soon cause the Z8 price to notably drop off in the next 3-6 months do you believe? I'm not sure it will, as they appear based on rumors anyway to be different beasts.

Would you hold off for the announcement in case something better value than the Z8 comes along?

Would you imagine the Panamoz ones have had the repairs regarding the strap lug and things?

Personally I would avoid them myself. Some have claimed very good service and got products as describe and good value, others have reported negative stories.

Granted I may pay full price from some place like B&H or worse, BestBuy, but at least their customer service (ie. getting what you paid for and not risk getting a used unit for example) is far far less as they are more careful about this. Some of these smaller resellers have had a bad reputation (not specifically this company per-se but in general) with sending out things that were wrong or perhaps even the bait-and-switch tactic (they say it's new, but you get a used one, and then they offer you a discount for example).

I don't think the Z8 is going to drop anymore so if you want one I would buy it now while it's $200 off still. 2800 in USD is probably about $3200 which is about what refurbished or used ones sell for, so I'd be skeptical. At the very least, it's probably grey market.

I'm gonna say this because they earned it. Panamoz, have better customer service than any shop I have ever been to in my life. I don't say this lightly. They reply to emails within hours at most, Tina is very helpful and any problem I've ever had - they sort it no question. Panamoz do not send out used gear.

I don't know about that.... I think there were some posts on here previously about either used gear or just not getting what the expected, or other issues I mentioned.

But more importantly as others have mentioned, no address info on the site, and that right there would be concerning for me would be a possible indication to maybe skip. Any reputable company should have no problem putting their address on the site. I see none when I just checked (maybe it's buried somewhere in a terms agreement or warranty/repair policies page, etc).

--
NOTE: If I don't reply to a direct comment in the forums, it's likely I unsubscribed from the thread/article..

 

[Icee258]

Instead of buying gray market, why not travel to the EU (or US if you're so inclined) to buy the camera? You could get the VAT refunded in the EU because you're taking it home to not the EU, and the cost of travel may be worth the warranty you get by not buying gray.

Nikon honors warranties for cameras and lenses purchased on site from authorized dealers even if you then take them to another territory. Just save the receipt for proof.

 

[primeshooter]

Hello

I've never been able to stretch for a Z8, despite really wanting to move from D500 to mirrorless with great AF. I have Z6, 14-30 and 24-120 already. I was speaking to some photographers I met out and about and surprisingly, lots of people were using Panamoz. I am based in England, UK.

I never considered this as I like to go to suppliers I know locally. It seems Panamoz though the Z8 is around £2800. My D500 would sell for around £500, bringing the Z8 in to affordable territory for me now.

Trustpilot gives Panamoz a fantastic rating, so I assume it's fairly safe to use them. I just imagine the servicing/repairs, Nikon may turn you away? Or would Nikon repair it, but not under warranty of course.

My main question really - is now a bad time to buy a Z8 from Panamoz? Will the Z6iii release soon cause the Z8 price to notably drop off in the next 3-6 months do you believe? I'm not sure it will, as they appear based on rumors anyway to be different beasts.

Would you hold off for the announcement in case something better value than the Z8 comes along?

Would you imagine the Panamoz ones have had the repairs regarding the strap lug and things?

Personally I would avoid them myself. Some have claimed very good service and got products as describe and good value, others have reported negative stories.

Granted I may pay full price from some place like B&H or worse, BestBuy, but at least their customer service (ie. getting what you paid for and not risk getting a used unit for example) is far far less as they are more careful about this. Some of these smaller resellers have had a bad reputation (not specifically this company per-se but in general) with sending out things that were wrong or perhaps even the bait-and-switch tactic (they say it's new, but you get a used one, and then they offer you a discount for example).

I don't think the Z8 is going to drop anymore so if you want one I would buy it now while it's $200 off still. 2800 in USD is probably about $3200 which is about what refurbished or used ones sell for, so I'd be skeptical. At the very least, it's probably grey market.

I'm gonna say this because they earned it. Panamoz, have better customer service than any shop I have ever been to in my life. I don't say this lightly. They reply to emails within hours at most, Tina is very helpful and any problem I've ever had - they sort it no question. Panamoz do not send out used gear.

I don't know about that.... I think there were some posts on here previously about either used gear or just not getting what the expected, or other issues I mentioned.

But more importantly as others have mentioned, no address info on the site, and that right there would be concerning for me would be a possible indication to maybe skip. Any reputable company should have no problem putting their address on the site. I see none when I just checked (maybe it's buried somewhere in a terms agreement or warranty/repair policies page, etc).

Not sure why you are so concerned with their address. Using a CC / Paypal you are well protected. They live and die off their rep. If they had 2/5 on trustpilot I could see your point - but they have 5/5 with over 5K reviews. That's outstanding for most companies. Your beat.

 

[jessem101]

Why dont you consider a refurb if you are concerned about saving some money?

At the Z8 price point, at times it doesn't make sense to say "I want to save money" or "I am looking or waiting for something with better value"

personally I own my camera bodies for 4 years at a time, if I own a flagship, they usually get pushed out farther, such as my Z9..it will last a very long time especially considering how Nikon is always providing free firmware updates that are pretty significant.

I would suggest to see what camera you want and why..but to be undecided between a newer Z6III or a Z8..thats a pretty big difference between the 2 and pretty big price point differential.

If you are already budgeted for a Z8, just buy the Z9 on refurb, its the same exact price as a new Z8 and you won't have to worry about if you didn't get the best bang for your buck. JMHO.

 

[Leonard Shepherd]

So all the persons using Panamoz, unless declaring it to HMRC, are technically undertaking tax evasion? Who knew!

If the goods are imported by a buyer from Hong Kong (common in Grey Importers Terms and Conditions) - yes.

Edit: From the Panamoz website:

10. Will I have to pay any import taxes and duties?

You will not have to pay any. Our prices are all inclusive. All import and customs charges will be covered by us fully, and will be billed to our shipping account directly. You will not be billed.

So perhaps its fine.

When a few years ago I asked for a VAT invoice if buying from Panamoz - the correspondence ended.

"Billing to our shipping agent" is not necessarily the same as paying UK Customs and Excise the 20% VAT.

The wording you quote is not for me satisfactory confirmation Panamox pay VAT, whereas a VAT invoice from a UK camera shop does.

Digressing Hong Kong grey importer sellers prices are usually close to UK prices excluding UK VAT.

A receipt from a UK camera shop normally includes the Companies House registration number and registered address together with the VAT registration number.

Presumably some-one in UK who has recently bought from Panamox can confirm they have a VAT invoice including the VAT registration number.

--
Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is similar to learning to play a piano - it takes practice to develop skill in either activity.

 

[primeshooter]

Why dont you consider a refurb if you are concerned about saving some money?

At the Z8 price point, at times it doesn't make sense to say "I want to save money" or "I am looking or waiting for something with better value"

personally I own my camera bodies for 4 years at a time, if I own a flagship, they usually get pushed out farther, such as my Z9..it will last a very long time especially considering how Nikon is always providing free firmware updates that are pretty significant.

I would suggest to see what camera you want and why..but to be undecided between a newer Z6III or a Z8..thats a pretty big difference between the 2 and pretty big price point differential.

If you are already budgeted for a Z8, just buy the Z9 on refurb, its the same exact price as a new Z8 and you won't have to worry about if you didn't get the best bang for your buck. JMHO.

Because here in the UK you can easily buy a brand new Z 8 with zero shutter count and a warranty grey market for less than that refurb you are suggesting! That's why.

 

[jessem101]

but your comparison of the Nikon Z6III (which won't be on the same level of the Z8 or Z9) is a drastic price difference. a refurb will have a direct warranty with Nikon, gray market will be a 3rd party warranty dept. So to say you can settle for the Z8 instead of the Z6III which would be in the 2K range new, a 300 dollar differential between refurb and grey market shouldn't be of an issue yes?

 

[Karl Huber]

I’ve used both Panamax and e-infinity and have been very pleased with the service from both.

I used to pilot Panamax ships.

 

[primeshooter]

but your comparison of the Nikon Z6III (which won't be on the same level of the Z8 or Z9) is a drastic price difference. a refurb will have a direct warranty with Nikon, gray market will be a 3rd party warranty dept. So to say you can settle for the Z8 instead of the Z6III which would be in the 2K range new, a 300 dollar differential between refurb and grey market shouldn't be of an issue yes?

Perhaps. Still, I see people buying refurbished all the time over grey market in the UK. Whatever floats your boat but most Americans here don't understand how it works here, just saying...grey is king here. There is no risk, the warranty is 3 years with panamoz I think. Try getting that in a UK shop as standard.

 

[jessem101]

So as an example, when the D600 first came out, there were issues with oil splashing on the sensor. 3 years owning the D600, free of charge I was able to send it off to Nikon, got it back within 2 weeks with a brand new shutter mech. Gray market, good luck go pound sand...

the Z8 currently has a recall, the first was for the lens mount that could result in not being able to change lenses, etc. The second was for the camera strap lugs on the body. The Z9 has an issue with date and time conflicting with GPS. Nikon will fix my Z9 free of charge, Gray market I would have to live with a work around. What happens when you get your Z8 and doesn't have the necessary repairs done for the 2 recalls? I doubt this place is pulling funds out of pocket to fix any of the recalls.

Again, you are nit picking the differential of maybe 200 dollars between a refurb and a gray market camera body. Every camera body I have own to date has had some sort of recall sadly lol and I paid zero dollars to get it all fixed.

Good luck, hopefully your gray market Z8 will have all the recalls fixed.

Jesse

--
jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

 

[Richard Dutton]

So all the persons using Panamoz, unless declaring it to HMRC, are technically undertaking tax evasion? Who knew!

If the goods are imported by a buyer from Hong Kong (common in Grey Importers Terms and Conditions) - yes.

No - not if their agent (Panamoz ) has fulfilled the necessary statutory requirements.

It is not a good idea to accuse peoplle of tax evasion, to say the least, without evidence of this.

Edit: From the Panamoz website:

10. Will I have to pay any import taxes and duties?

You will not have to pay any. Our prices are all inclusive. All import and customs charges will be covered by us fully, and will be billed to our shipping account directly. You will not be billed.

So perhaps its fine.

When a few years ago I asked for a VAT invoice if buying from Panamoz - the correspondence ended.

"Billing to our shipping agent" is not necessarily the same as paying UK Customs and Excise the 20% VAT.

The wording you quote is not for me satisfactory confirmation Panamox pay VAT, whereas a VAT invoice from a UK camera shop does.

Panamoz is an entity registered in HK. Their UK office is just that - a handling office. I doubt that even if they act as sole traders their turnover approaches the threshold for compulsory VAT registration.

Digressing Hong Kong grey importer sellers prices are usually close to UK prices excluding UK VAT.

A receipt from a UK camera shop normally includes the Companies House registration number and registered address together with the VAT registration number.

Panamoz are not a UK Company. They are neither a limited company nor are they VAT registered. The contract is with a HK registered company hence they cannot issue UK VAT invoices.

Presumably some-one in UK who has recently bought from Panamox can confirm they have a VAT invoice including the VAT registration number.

This is a total red herring: the issue is one of paying the customs charges which include an equivalent of a charge of VAT

This is nothing to do with a retail purchase in the UK where the trader can issue a VAT invoice ONLY IF they are VAT registered.

 

[Richard Dutton]

So as an example, when the D600 first came out, there were issues with oil splashing on the sensor. 3 years owning the D600, free of charge I was able to send it off to Nikon, got it back within 2 weeks with a brand new shutter mech. Gray market, good luck go pound sand...

the Z8 currently has a recall, the first was for the lens mount that could result in not being able to change lenses, etc. The second was for the camera strap lugs on the body. The Z9 has an issue with date and time conflicting with GPS. Nikon will fix my Z9 free of charge, Gray market I would have to live with a work around. What happens when you get your Z8 and doesn't have the necessary repairs done for the 2 recalls? I doubt this place is pulling funds out of pocket to fix any of the recalls.

Again, you are nit picking the differential of maybe 200 dollars between a refurb and a gray market camera body. Every camera body I have own to date has had some sort of recall sadly lol and I paid zero dollars to get it all fixed.

Good luck, hopefully your gray market Z8 will have all the recalls fixed.

Jesse

The OP is UK based

The relevant discussion is about how Panamoz operate in the UK and peoples’ experience of them.

It sounds as if the way this grey market operates in the USA is markedly different from how it is in the EU and UK.

HERE, as you can see from posts above:

Nikon ( and Canon ) will repair grey market cameras and lenses - obviously not under warranty

Repairs are done by well regarded UK repair shops under the 3 year Pansmoz warranty.

People are happy with the customer service from Panamoz

Nikon UK will honour all recalls grey or not ( they have done so for me and I told them my cameras were ex HK )

Nikon also honour any offers post sale eg upgrade of en el15’s on D500 whether its grey or not. Nikon UK just accept Panamoz’s sales invoice as proof of purchase. They are not naive and know a hell of a lot o units are purchased this way rather than from UK/EU stock.

Price differentials new ex HK to refurb ( if you can find such in the UK ) are much higher than you say for the USA

Nikom only offer a one year warranty ) in general ) in the UK. Panamoz always and Hdew sometimes offer a three year warranty.

 

[dtc25]

So as an example, when the D600 first came out, there were issues with oil splashing on the sensor. 3 years owning the D600, free of charge I was able to send it off to Nikon, got it back within 2 weeks with a brand new shutter mech. Gray market, good luck go pound sand...

the Z8 currently has a recall, the first was for the lens mount that could result in not being able to change lenses, etc. The second was for the camera strap lugs on the body. The Z9 has an issue with date and time conflicting with GPS. Nikon will fix my Z9 free of charge, Gray market I would have to live with a work around. What happens when you get your Z8 and doesn't have the necessary repairs done for the 2 recalls? I doubt this place is pulling funds out of pocket to fix any of the recalls.

Again, you are nit picking the differential of maybe 200 dollars between a refurb and a gray market camera body. Every camera body I have own to date has had some sort of recall sadly lol and I paid zero dollars to get it all fixed.

Good luck, hopefully your gray market Z8 will have all the recalls fixed.

Jesse

 

[GuzziJon]

I’ve bought a few things from Cotswold Cameras (Z5, Z14-30 f4, Z24-120 f4) with no problems, from what I could see they’re a similar ‘grey imports’ dealer to Panamoz. I did a bit of due diligence- on the issue of warranties for instance. It seems that they issue their own warranty to repair or replace which does get good reviews from those who have had to use it. My gear also had UK manuals and charger.

The main worry for me was the delivery- it was much nicer to pop into my local camera shop to buy my Z6II- but it all arrived safe and sound. And the saving was too good to ignore!

 

[Richard Dutton]

A slightly tangential comment.

People seem to comparing UK prices as delivered by Panamoz or Hdew ( agents for Plemix HK ) to shop/ store prices in HK. That is not necessarily the case.

These HK operations are wholesalers who operate in what is an effective Freeport of HK.

They source goods in bulk purchase from wherever they can at the best price. The “where from” and what price they buy at we will never know unless someone can track serial numbers through to specific area not just market segments.

My Z6 serial number starts 80 - the "country code" for the UK

My D500 serial number starts with 30 - the code for the USA

Both were bought from Panamoz in the UK- interesting ?

So, if you go onto one of the HK camera stores you will be looking at retail prices which will certainly exceed and not necessarily correlated with the input cost / wholesale cost that these business buy in at.

I don’t think we can know what that starting cost is before margins and import charges etc are applied.

 

[primeshooter]

So as an example, when the D600 first came out, there were issues with oil splashing on the sensor. 3 years owning the D600, free of charge I was able to send it off to Nikon, got it back within 2 weeks with a brand new shutter mech. Gray market, good luck go pound sand...

the Z8 currently has a recall, the first was for the lens mount that could result in not being able to change lenses, etc. The second was for the camera strap lugs on the body. The Z9 has an issue with date and time conflicting with GPS. Nikon will fix my Z9 free of charge, Gray market I would have to live with a work around. What happens when you get your Z8 and doesn't have the necessary repairs done for the 2 recalls? I doubt this place is pulling funds out of pocket to fix any of the recalls.

Again, you are nit picking the differential of maybe 200 dollars between a refurb and a gray market camera body. Every camera body I have own to date has had some sort of recall sadly lol and I paid zero dollars to get it all fixed.

Good luck, hopefully your gray market Z8 will have all the recalls fixed.

Jesse

You aren't in the UK and you clearly have zero idea how it works here. I've had a grey market nikon D800 exchanged for a new from Nikon UK before. I've just told you my buddies grey market Z 8 was recalled twice for nikon to service in UK and twice completed with zero issue...

 

[primeshooter]

So as an example, when the D600 first came out, there were issues with oil splashing on the sensor. 3 years owning the D600, free of charge I was able to send it off to Nikon, got it back within 2 weeks with a brand new shutter mech. Gray market, good luck go pound sand...

the Z8 currently has a recall, the first was for the lens mount that could result in not being able to change lenses, etc. The second was for the camera strap lugs on the body. The Z9 has an issue with date and time conflicting with GPS. Nikon will fix my Z9 free of charge, Gray market I would have to live with a work around. What happens when you get your Z8 and doesn't have the necessary repairs done for the 2 recalls? I doubt this place is pulling funds out of pocket to fix any of the recalls.

Again, you are nit picking the differential of maybe 200 dollars between a refurb and a gray market camera body. Every camera body I have own to date has had some sort of recall sadly lol and I paid zero dollars to get it all fixed.

Good luck, hopefully your gray market Z8 will have all the recalls fixed.

Jesse

I bought a grey market Z8 and Nikon UK repaired the lens mount and strap lugs under the recall with no problems at all.

Same. I am personally tired of some across the pond posters here telling me how grey market works in my own country. Yes I am bummed out for you that you guys get treated the way you do when it comes to grey market - but we simply don't. It's time to put the myths to bed. It's becoming like flat earth...

 

[primeshooter]

So all the persons using Panamoz, unless declaring it to HMRC, are technically undertaking tax evasion? Who knew!

If the goods are imported by a buyer from Hong Kong (common in Grey Importers Terms and Conditions) - yes.

No - not if their agent (Panamoz ) has fulfilled the necessary statutory requirements.

It is not a good idea to accuse peoplle of tax evasion, to say the least, without evidence of this.

Edit: From the Panamoz website:

10. Will I have to pay any import taxes and duties?

You will not have to pay any. Our prices are all inclusive. All import and customs charges will be covered by us fully, and will be billed to our shipping account directly. You will not be billed.

So perhaps its fine.

When a few years ago I asked for a VAT invoice if buying from Panamoz - the correspondence ended.

"Billing to our shipping agent" is not necessarily the same as paying UK Customs and Excise the 20% VAT.

The wording you quote is not for me satisfactory confirmation Panamox pay VAT, whereas a VAT invoice from a UK camera shop does.

Panamoz is an entity registered in HK. Their UK office is just that - a handling office. I doubt that even if they act as sole traders their turnover approaches the threshold for compulsory VAT registration.

Digressing Hong Kong grey importer sellers prices are usually close to UK prices excluding UK VAT.

A receipt from a UK camera shop normally includes the Companies House registration number and registered address together with the VAT registration number.

Panamoz are not a UK Company. They are neither a limited company nor are they VAT registered. The contract is with a HK registered company hence they cannot issue UK VAT invoices.

Presumably some-one in UK who has recently bought from Panamox can confirm they have a VAT invoice including the VAT registration number.

This is a total red herring: the issue is one of paying the customs charges which include an equivalent of a charge of VAT

This is nothing to do with a retail purchase in the UK where the trader can issue a VAT invoice ONLY IF they are VAT registered.

It seems that 2011 was the first time this discussion appeared in a forum

So, 13 years on - still the same rehearsal of these “issues”

I understand that, for a photographer with a high status in this profession, it is anathema to consider grey market purchases.

However, for the rest of us, Panamoz and Hdew have given us valuable savings.

Very well written and good points. Oh I know several pros that have scooped up a grey market body too, believe me...