(One of) my gripe with the lovely a6700

[Yao Zhang]

Coming from the Canon EOS M system, I find a6700 to be extremely capable except in one unfortunate area that affects the quick exposure adjustment, a functionality that is well implemented in my EOS M system. Now let me tell you what the problem is.

With my EOS M6 II and a6700, I exclusively shoot in M mode with all my three dials (dial near shutter, top plate, and near d pad) assigned to adjust shutter speed, aperture and Ev and I let the camera to figure out needed ISO to bring exposure to that set EV setting. I set my ISO range to 100 to 6400.

For majority of cases, where the ISO is often within this range for the given shutter speed, aperture and My ev setting (often is 0 or -0.3), the workflow allows almost seamless exposure adjustment quickly.


The workflow in action, set the SS, F stop, EV and the ISO is auto adjusted to 200 to compensate for set Ev


The same workflow as seen on my EOS M6 II, ISO is decided by the camera to be 160

However, when the ISO could not compensate for the given Ev setting, i.e. when it's too dark or too bright for the ISO range, I will have to manually adjust shutter speed /aperture/ev to re-balance the equation.

Now, on my M6 II, I could see my ambient meter (true Ev meter) all the time, even when the ISO is capped out. It allows me to see exactly how over/underexposed I am, such as +0.3 or even +2/+3. Then I can quickly adjust my shutter speed or aperture to shift the Ev reading back to desired 0. Conversely, if I am underexposed to -1 and my ISO is already at 6400, I have the choice to whether to bump it to 12800 manually with some sacrifice to image quality or leave it as is and adjust the rest of the exposure triangle instead. The point is I have incredible precision over my exposure.


My manual Ev is still set to 0, but the room is too bright and the Ev meter shows the actual reading

This however, is not possible on a6700, on all three display windows, the ev meter only shows the manual Ev and not the true meter, the only indication that the camera could no longer stay at desired Ev setting is the flashing of ISO indicator. The ev meter is useless in this case since the 0.0 is no longer reflecting reality. I could be +0.3 overexposed, or +4 overexposed, I won't be able to know. I can only slowly adjust my shutter speed/aperture, restart metering by half press the shutter, and see whether the ISO stops flashing and reenter the 100-6400 range. This is incredibly inaccurate and inefficient. In cases like a this, a good old full manual mode would probably fare better.


The flashing ISO indicates over/underexposure beyond the given ISO range


I have to increase my SS to a basically unknown number until the ISO appears >100

This is not a dealbreaker, but a real disappointment considering my $800 canon can do this a few years ago (even older canon can do this too). But I don't dream Sony updating this functionality it since I learned these three fixed monitor display modes have been on the Sony cameras since way back when. Though there is always a slim chance that I somehow missed a setting somewhere, albeit highly unlikely as I have scrolled through each and every setting a few times now...

--
You were born with 576 megapixels, use it

 

[isvana]

Maybe set Live Display to Off so you can see the real exposure and judge accordingly (given you shoot in M then you know all about exposure anyway!)?



Help guide

 

[Chefski]

Coming from the Canon EOS M system, I find a6700 to be extremely capable except in one unfortunate area that affects the quick exposure adjustment, a functionality that is well implemented in my EOS M system. Now let me tell you what the problem is.

With my EOS M6 II and a6700, I exclusively shoot in M mode with all my three dials (dial near shutter, top plate, and near d pad) assigned to adjust shutter speed, aperture and Ev and I let the camera to figure out needed ISO to bring exposure to that set EV setting. I set my ISO range to 100 to 6400.

For majority of cases, where the ISO is often within this range for the given shutter speed, aperture and My ev setting (often is 0 or -0.3), the workflow allows almost seamless exposure adjustment quickly.


The workflow in action, set the SS, F stop, EV and the ISO is auto adjusted to 200 to compensate for set Ev


The same workflow as seen on my EOS M6 II, ISO is decided by the camera to be 160

However, when the ISO could not compensate for the given Ev setting, i.e. when it's too dark or too bright for the ISO range, I will have to manually adjust shutter speed /aperture/ev to re-balance the equation.

Now, on my M6 II, I could see my ambient meter (true Ev meter) all the time, even when the ISO is capped out. It allows me to see exactly how over/underexposed I am, such as +0.3 or even +2/+3. Then I can quickly adjust my shutter speed or aperture to shift the Ev reading back to desired 0. Conversely, if I am underexposed to -1 and my ISO is already at 6400, I have the choice to whether to bump it to 12800 manually with some sacrifice to image quality or leave it as is and adjust the rest of the exposure triangle instead. The point is I have incredible precision over my exposure.


My manual Ev is still set to 0, but the room is too bright and the Ev meter shows the actual reading

This however, is not possible on a6700, on all three display windows, the ev meter only shows the manual Ev and not the true meter, the only indication that the camera could no longer stay at desired Ev setting is the flashing of ISO indicator. The ev meter is useless in this case since the 0.0 is no longer reflecting reality. I could be +0.3 overexposed, or +4 overexposed, I won't be able to know. I can only slowly adjust my shutter speed/aperture, restart metering by half press the shutter, and see whether the ISO stops flashing and reenter the 100-6400 range. This is incredibly inaccurate and inefficient. In cases like a this, a good old full manual mode would probably fare better.


The flashing ISO indicates over/underexposure beyond the given ISO range


I have to increase my SS to a basically unknown number until the ISO appears >100

This is not a dealbreaker, but a real disappointment considering my $800 canon can do this a few years ago (even older canon can do this too). But I don't dream Sony updating this functionality it since I learned these three fixed monitor display modes have been on the Sony cameras since way back when. Though there is always a slim chance that I somehow missed a setting somewhere, albeit highly unlikely as I have scrolled through each and every setting a few times now...

Here a slightly different approach you may want to try and see if it works for you. Keep the two upper dials for Aperture and Shutter Speed as you now have them. For the wheel by the Dpad, instead of EV, set it to ISO. Now the metering value will show the actual value up to +-2EV and will blink when beyond that. You don't get the scale displayed but perhaps this will get you the control you desire. You can turn the wheel to easily go from Auto ISO to a specific ISO value.

Good luck!

--

https://www.flickr.com/photos/photoski/collections

 

[Yao Zhang]

That sounds great. But I tried it and when the iso caps out, both EV and ISO are flashing and on the auto setting.. so not really an improvement unfortunately. It only shows actual readings when ISO is not on AUTO, which is the point of this setup…




Meter is not visible when iso caps out



--
You were born with 576 megapixels, use it

 

[Maxmolly7]

How does the A6700 compare to the M6II?
General handling, IQ and AF especially. I am familiar with the Sony menus.


I am also considering it, however I would probably go for the Tamron f2.8 trinity: 11-20, 17-70 and 70-180mm.

 

[Yao Zhang]

How does the A6700 compare to the M6II?
General handling, IQ and AF especially. I am familiar with the Sony menus.

I am also considering it, however I would probably go for the Tamron f2.8 trinity: 11-20, 17-70 and 70-180mm.

Hey there! I am pretty sure I saw you before on the EOS M forum, nice to meet you here again.

To your question, I have used for a6700 for a few months and it’s nothing short of amazing besides that little quirk I mentioned. Handling is much better than M6 II since a6700 has an actual useable grip, I have tried a6600 and a6700 is just a step beyond, I would actually say the ergonomics is better than a7IV bc of the more gentle curve on the middle finger area. There are 3 custom mode compared to M6’s 2, and the lens usually come with buttons as well. Battery is superb, like 3x the shots on M6 II I am not kidding. One can last a long shooting day, and the battery compartment does not block the tripod when using the smallrig arca swiss base plate. It also adds a nice weight to it, so it can handle a big lens much better than M6II. So handling overall is just perfect.

In terms of IQ, it’s gonna be tricky, the M6II’s 32MP sensor is really good, especially when paired with a lens that can bring out that resolution, like the EF-M 32mm, but as we know that’s the only native efm lens capable of resolving that resolution unfortunately. The 11-22 is up there, but it is comparable to the a6700. I feel like a6700 has slightly more noise than it should be, and the M6II film grain like noise actually had its own character. But what a6700 excels is the dynamic range, the sony sensor is incredibly capable of lifting shadows and preserving highlights, something the M6II truly cannot compete. Also it’s a dual gain sensor so video is much better on a6700. But I guess most importantly, M6II is severely handicapped by its lens selection, whereas a6700 is not, so a6700’s image quality can be fully utilized almost all the time.

AF is not even worth discussing, M6II comparatively has very rudimentary af system, just face and eye detect, small af area as well with less sophisticated customization options. A6700 uses the flagship a7rv’s af machine learning model and can almost recognize anything besides ships and boats. One may argue the M6II’s faster burst rate might be useful for fast action, but in my experience the AF accuracy is always more important, I can almost always get just one or two sharp focus shots from a6700 for birds or 10 shots of blurry shots from M6II, though lens also has an effect on this.

You cant go wrong with any lens in the modern (last 4 years or so) sony system. The third party manufacturers produce incredibly good lenses, I use the 10-18 Sigma F2.8, the widest possible apsc af zoom on sony e and it’s has been my go to wide angle lens. I honestly regretted not switching to sony earlier. But I actually still have my M6 II and some lenses with me, maybe it’s time to finally move on and potentially fund my full frame E mount!

--
You were born with 576 megapixels, use it

 

[Maxmolly7]

Thank you for your comprehensive feedback, it is highly appriciated!

It shows that I semm to be on the right track to simplify my photographic life and reduce my extensive M-system.
After some more in-depth research yesterday I am even more drawn to A7CII than A6700.
I would reduce all my gear down to 1 FF body, a 28-200mm Tamron zoom and 1 prime, 20 or 24mm.
However, I will definetly keep my compact and bridge though...

 

[Bender79ita]

I have no idea how to solve your puzzle, partially because I don't expose like this from a few years now (I only look at zebra).

But this is Sony, so it doesn't really matter too much if your exposure is off as long as the shutter speed and aperture are the ones you wanted to use or could afford to use.

You could correct 4 or 5 ev in post and there would be really little difference if you shot at different ISO instead of recovering in post.

Just make sure you're not clipping highlights or blacks too too hard.

https://photographylife.com/iso-invariance-explained

You can also help yourself expose as you want with zebra indicators btw, it's very convenient. Keep in mind that zebra is displayed for the creative style or picture profile., not for the RAW file, sadly, as are all hystograms and highlight review panel in all cameras.

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00077788

 

[Yao Zhang]

Yes, I have my zebras set up to 109. And you are right the difference is minimal and iso invariance should make this issue practically insignificant (I actually did my own ISO invariance test with a6700 in my prior post) but it just doesn’t feel like I have the total control! So that’s why I will attribute this as a user experience issue.