Recommendation to replace an old IMac

[Philip Eihuyar]

Yes, Intel Mac owners are in a different category. But this subthread is about Apple Silicon Macs and how long they are supported. The OP was asking about buying a new Mac that he wanted to use for many years. Also, this line I wrote in my post was not included above:

The problem is that we don't know what the next architectural change will be in hardware. There will be one, we just don't know when and what. So trying to predict beyond the three macOS generations gets quite risky.

If I had to guess, the next hardware change is going to be triggered by AI and home changes (which in turn are being triggered by the Vision AR). It might come in communications, though that generally hasn't triggered an architectural change problem that's significant.

It sounds like what you are saying is that someone could buy an M1 MBA directly from Apple today and then find out that tomorrow there is a new MacOS update that cannot be used on the M1 MBA. Is that correct?

That's unlikely, but possible. I want to see what Apple does with the iPhone 16 before I commit to answering that question. The reason has to do with AI/Siri, which is undergoing significant change in R&D. How much of that change is architectural rather than modular will determine the answer.

I think you're misreading or misinterpreting what I wrote. At the moment, nothing has happened that would keep the Apple Silicon Macs from continuing to be supported in macOS upgrades. But once you start trying to guess how long your Apple Silicon Mac will still be getting macOS updates, you have a problem: Apple is leading-edge aggressive with tech, and when tech triggers an architectural change, that's the point where support starts getting dropped for the previous architectures.

Apple has another problem now (which the PC makers have had for a long time): upgrade buying is down on Macs. This actually increases the chances that they will make an architectural change, not decrease it.

But if you want to press me on this, I'd say that an M1 Mac probably is going to survive another two or three macOS updates. That's Sonoma+2 or 3. We already know that an M1 can run Sonoma, and Sonoma won't go away with support until late 2026 worst case, so if I'm right, we're talking 28 or 29.

I think there will be less of breaking older machines from hardware and OS upgrades in the future. The real changes can be on the OS side. What I believe the attraction and differences are for PC users and Mac users are that users of PCs like to 'build their own' machine from different venders of third party parts. It gives PC users a sense of independence or freedom of choice . But, also, has real limitations because of the clear speed advantages of Apples' silicone chip integration with memory and application support. Mac now has a clear market advantage for good reason. The strength of Mac hardware is going to be focused on malware threats which are going to be Chip based in manufacture. PC s are not really going to be a good security choice if users can put is pieces from third party venders.

On the downside is the gradual takeover of a kind of visual busyness and clutter of UI design. It does this at the cost of miniaturization of text. I do wish OS designers would take Mac users back to visually simpler times. For instance, when something is downloaded, the progress bar is so small you often spend time to find it. To move a window in Safari or any browser results, more often than not, in clicking the wrong place in the top of window. one cannot just go to top of window and hold down and move it. There was, in past times an obvious place to hold down to move window. These and many other little things take up over a days computer use quite a bit of unnecessary annoying lost time. So, The OS designer side of upgrades has a bit of improvement that should be included that would not break the machine of older macs but would be a positive in users knowing an upgrade as a benefit. The 'everything has to be gray' of Jonney Ives should be reversed back to the original shaded buttons and muti-color Apple icon. Sounds like a small thing but it has always bugged me.

In truth, most of the PC UI it owes to Apple original UI designers. People should remember that.

 

[Nick on the Baltic]

Please reread the relevant posts from me and others in this subthread. The subject is MacOS updates for Macs.

The problem is that because of the recent hardware architecture changes, you can't separate the two for Intel Macs.

Yes, Intel Mac owners are in a different category. But this subthread is about Apple Silicon Macs and how long they are supported. The OP was asking about buying a new Mac that he wanted to use for many years. Also, this line I wrote in my post was not included above:

The problem is that we don't know what the next architectural change will be in hardware. There will be one, we just don't know when and what. So trying to predict beyond the three macOS generations gets quite risky.

If I had to guess, the next hardware change is going to be triggered by AI and home changes (which in turn are being triggered by the Vision AR). It might come in communications, though that generally hasn't triggered an architectural change problem that's significant.

It sounds like what you are saying is that someone could buy an M1 MBA directly from Apple today and then find out that tomorrow there is a new MacOS update that cannot be used on the M1 MBA. Is that correct?

That's unlikely, but possible. I want to see what Apple does with the iPhone 16 before I commit to answering that question. The reason has to do with AI/Siri, which is undergoing significant change in R&D. How much of that change is architectural rather than modular will determine the answer.

What we're seeing with the iPhone is the establishment of two tiers of product: the leading edge with premium pricing and the lower priced range which lags 3 to 4 years in capability.

I think you're misreading or misinterpreting what I wrote. At the moment, nothing has happened that would keep the Apple Silicon Macs from continuing to be supported in macOS upgrades. But once you start trying to guess how long your Apple Silicon Mac will still be getting macOS updates, you have a problem: Apple is leading-edge aggressive with tech, and when tech triggers an architectural change, that's the point where support starts getting dropped for the previous architectures.

And as a business choice, support can get dropped for economic reasons, even where it might be technically possible to implement.

Apple has another problem now (which the PC makers have had for a long time): upgrade buying is down on Macs. This actually increases the chances that they will make an architectural change, not decrease it.

Agreed. What we're increasingly seeing from Apple is new capabilities/features being introduced that require the latest hardware to function, so while the previous hardware generations are still supported (service/spares) and can run the latest or very recent OS (software updates/security patches) they lack the newest functionality. This may be a genuine result of engineering advances, or it may be a marketing strategy to push users in a maturing market into upgrades they would otherwise not need or want

But if you want to press me on this, I'd say that an M1 Mac probably is going to survive another two or three macOS updates. That's Sonoma+2 or 3. We already know that an M1 can run Sonoma, and Sonoma won't go away with support until late 2026 worst case, so if I'm right, we're talking 28 or 29.

The evolution of the Vision Pro product will determine the future of the desktop/laptop Mac. That's as much as I'm prepared to predict.

 

[Henry Richardson]

Please reread the relevant posts from me and others in this subthread. The subject is MacOS updates for Macs.

The problem is that because of the recent hardware architecture changes, you can't separate the two for Intel Macs.

Yes, Intel Mac owners are in a different category. But this subthread is about Apple Silicon Macs and how long they are supported. The OP was asking about buying a new Mac that he wanted to use for many years. Also, this line I wrote in my post was not included above:

The problem is that we don't know what the next architectural change will be in hardware. There will be one, we just don't know when and what. So trying to predict beyond the three macOS generations gets quite risky.

If I had to guess, the next hardware change is going to be triggered by AI and home changes (which in turn are being triggered by the Vision AR). It might come in communications, though that generally hasn't triggered an architectural change problem that's significant.

It sounds like what you are saying is that someone could buy an M1 MBA directly from Apple today and then find out that tomorrow there is a new MacOS update that cannot be used on the M1 MBA. Is that correct?

That's unlikely, but possible. I want to see what Apple does with the iPhone 16 before I commit to answering that question. The reason has to do with AI/Siri, which is undergoing significant change in R&D. How much of that change is architectural rather than modular will determine the answer.

I think you're misreading or misinterpreting what I wrote. At the moment, nothing has happened that would keep the Apple Silicon Macs from continuing to be supported in macOS upgrades. But once you start trying to guess how long your Apple Silicon Mac will still be getting macOS updates, you have a problem: Apple is leading-edge aggressive with tech, and when tech triggers an architectural change, that's the point where support starts getting dropped for the previous architectures.

Apple has another problem now (which the PC makers have had for a long time): upgrade buying is down on Macs. This actually increases the chances that they will make an architectural change, not decrease it.

But if you want to press me on this, I'd say that an M1 Mac probably is going to survive another two or three macOS updates. That's Sonoma+2 or 3. We already know that an M1 can run Sonoma, and Sonoma won't go away with support until late 2026 worst case, so if I'm right, we're talking 28 or 29.

Yes, all that sounds reasonable and I realize no one outside Apple knows. And maybe they haven't even decided. It just strikes me as weird and pretty disreputable IF Apple is selling M1 MBAs still and then, even though they have been selling them for over 3 years, they suddenly screwed a new buyer in a short time.

The reason I am interested in this is because I have been traveling for the last 7 months and expect to continue for the next 3-4 months. Since May I have been to the U.S., Hungary, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Croatia, Thailand, Malaysia, Korea, Spain, Portugal, and Morocco. A few days ago I came back to the U.S. from Morocco and will be here for a few weeks before flying elsewhere. I am sort of thinking about buying an M1 MBA 16gb/512gb for my continued travels. I am not carrying my nice 16" M2 Pro 12/19 MBP 32gb/1tb (too big/heavy) so it is a shame that it is sitting unused for months in Japan. I just have a small, thin, old 13" Win10 ultrabook laptop that works well, but is rather underpowered compared to more recent stuff.

I was with a friend a couple of days ago and we went to Costco (he has a card, I do not). I saw they had the 14" M2 Pro MBP 16gb/512gb for $1599 and that is also tempting. I like it, but the M1 MBA is smaller/lighter and that is also very attractive for me right now. The M1 MBA is almost exactly the same size/weight as my current old 13" Win10 laptop I am carrying.

 

[Nick on the Baltic]

There is a 13" M2 MacBook Air. That's pretty certain to support the next three OS releases (2024-26) and take you up to 2029 with OS updates, at a minimum. A little bit more money, much less angst :-D

 

[Thom Hogan]

It just strikes me as weird and pretty disreputable IF Apple is selling M1 MBAs still and then, even though they have been selling them for over 3 years, they suddenly screwed a new buyer in a short time.

Some of the M1 MBAs all started their 7-year hardware support final cycle last year, so they won't be repaired after 2030. The only one left that's "current" is the bottom feeder original 13".

I am sort of thinking about buying an M1 MBA 16gb/512gb for my continued travels.

Hardware support for that remaining model probably ends in 2031, software upgrades we don't know, but we know you'd be fine through 2026 at a bare minimum. Probably more likely 2028, as my previous comment projected.

I can't count how many Macs I've owned (I had one a year before the original was released in 1984, as I was an early developer). The Mac specifically started a trend of front-edge technology push by Apple that continues unabated today. The Apple business model is specifically targeted at leading edge, with one hangover model at an entry price point to attract price-sensitive new customers. That would be the 13" M1 MBA in the Mac lineup, the SE phone and watch, and so on.

What really ought to catch people's attention is that those low-hangover models are, compared to much of the competition, pretty state of the art in performance (when you balance all things, such as battery life, computational aspects, and so on). But Apple's goal with the low end products is to get those folk into the constant front-edge tech upgrade cycles.

 

[Henry Richardson]

There is a 13" M2 MacBook Air. That's pretty certain to support the next three OS releases (2024-26) and take you up to 2029 with OS updates, at a minimum. A little bit more money, much less angst :-D

Yes, I am aware of all the current models.

It does sound like you are saying though that Apple will sell an M1 MBA even after they no longer provide MacOS updates for it. I realize we are talking about Apple which is known for screwing their customers, but even for Apple that seems rather harsh and greedy. I suppose most people would sort of expect that if they buy an M1 MBA today that MacOS updates (security, etc.) are assured for several years. Really Apple should stop selling the M1 MBA if they do not intend to support it much longer.

 

[Nick on the Baltic]

There is a 13" M2 MacBook Air. That's pretty certain to support the next three OS releases (2024-26) and take you up to 2029 with OS updates, at a minimum. A little bit more money, much less angst :-D

Yes, I am aware of all the current models.

It does sound like you are saying though that Apple will sell an M1 MBA even after they no longer provide MacOS updates for it. I realize we are talking about Apple which is known for screwing their customers, but even for Apple that seems rather harsh and greedy. I suppose most people would sort of expect that if they buy an M1 MBA today that MacOS updates (security, etc.) are assured for several years. Really Apple should stop selling the M1 MBA if they do not intend to support it much longer.

No, I'm not saying that at all. Don't know where you got the idea.

 

[Henry Richardson]

What I believe the attraction and differences are for PC users and Mac users are that users of PCs like to 'build their own' machine from different venders of third party parts.

You might be amazed how many Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus, etc. Windows laptops are sold (and also desktops) that come pre-built, pre-packaged, and people turn them on and use them. Besides 4 Macs I have owned many Windows laptops and none of them meant gathering all kinds of components and building them myself. The experience was identical to getting a Mac laptop.

 

[Thom Hogan]

There is a 13" M2 MacBook Air. That's pretty certain to support the next three OS releases (2024-26) and take you up to 2029 with OS updates, at a minimum. A little bit more money, much less angst :-D

Yes, I am aware of all the current models.

It does sound like you are saying though that Apple will sell an M1 MBA even after they no longer provide MacOS updates for it.

Can you give me an example of when they've done that? That would cause an issue at the Genius Bar for them that can't be resolved.

I realize we are talking about Apple which is known for screwing their customers...

They expect customers to move with them, and they're aggressive about that. If you don't want to finish the ride, don't get on it.

I suppose most people would sort of expect that if they buy an M1 MBA today that MacOS updates (security, etc.) are assured for several years.

And that would be the case as far as anyone can see, since that model can run Sonoma. You're imagining gremlins where there aren't currently any.

Really Apple should stop selling the M1 MBA if they do not intend to support it much longer.

That's exactly what they do. If it's on sale, they support it. If it's off sale, support will have an end date: seven years for hardware repairs, through the next two macOS updates that occur for software.

Many of us run (and have to for software development/testing reasons) older no-longer supported macOS versions on at least some of our hardware. The only primary thing that's lost is security updates. Basically, you need "other security" at the point when Apple is no longer updating security. That said, Apple has in at least two cases I know of, actually gone back to supposedly unsupported macOS versions to fix something that was particularly problematic security-wise.

But it's not as if this problem doesn't exist outside Apple. Your car is probably more vulnerable now than your computer, have you asked your automaker what their policy is for security outside of warranty? Your Wi-Fi system is likely vulnerable, as is your DOCSIS router if you're on cable if you haven't updated it lately (if it can still be updated). We have state-sponsored bad actors trying to hit any and everything these days.

 

[MHF in VA]

Probably too late to this party to be useful, but my recent upgrade experience, especially with regard to using older iMacs in mirroring mode:

My 2016 MacBook Pro and 2016 iMac had lost their luster. Neither was upgradable to current On1 PhotoRaw 2024 and neither can process an image faster than slowly. Late this past summer, I opted for a 2023 16″ MacBook Pro M2 and a 4TB OWC external SSD. The external drive is connected via Thunderbolt. Quite a set-up. New game.

My intention to use the iMac for mirroring, however, was quickly shot down by the fine people at Apple. It seems that my version of the iMac was the first to not allow mirroring. Never, no way, no how. That is, until I stumbled across Luna Display by a company of former Apple folks called AstroPad. Luna is an $80 fob that provided the full mirroring functionality I’d envisioned. While it took a little bit of work to set it up, the support from AstroPad was all anyone could ask for.