Recommendation to replace an old IMac

[Thom Hogan]

So to sum it up, 32gb would suffice in the long run?

Well, maybe. The shared memory aspect of Apple Silicon is still something software developers are trying to optimize for. Ditto all those cores.

But generally, 32GB is more than enough at the moment for the uses you're talking about. So I'd say it really gets down to whether or not there are future uses that you're not aware of now as to whether you should go higher in memory.

Given how long you kept your last machine and how much memory it had, I'd say 32GB is safe for you, but you never know.

 

[DM-CO]

I was planning to but have never used Thunderbolt connectivity as of yet.

Actually, nor have I. But I have done some research. It seems to me that There are fewer TB monitors than other connection types and they tend to be on the more expensive side.

good luck with the hunt and let us know which monitor you decide to go with.

 

[Michael Gebauer]

I was planning to but have never used Thunderbolt connectivity as of yet.

Actually, nor have I. But I have done some research. It seems to me that There are fewer TB monitors than other connection types and they tend to be on the more expensive side.

good luck with the hunt and let us know which monitor you decide to go with.

If you want to go 5K, TB is a must

 

[PaulDunlopPhotography]

For the external SSD look at the Samsung T7. Or the replacement T9.

 

[cpharm86]

For the external SSD look at the Samsung T7. Or the replacement T9.

Thank you.

 

[Henry Richardson]

I use a Canon R5, 45mp camera. Lightroom, Photoshop and DXO.

A friend of mine also shoots with a 45mp Canon R5 and uses Lightroom Classic. See this post:

32gb Intel Mac owner with LrC 12.5

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67267326

So to sum it up, 32gb would suffice in the long run? I keep my computers a long time as you see from my original post.

Yes, I saw that you like to buy and then use for many years. If you want to use a Mac and it run well for 7-10 years then, I guess, you would probably want to get 64gb as a minimum, but consider 96gb, 128gb, etc. Also, the highest SoC (M3 Max 16/40). 10 years is a hell of a long time with computers and also Lightroom Classic and other software is more and more making more use of the GPU for AI stuff. A few month ago Adobe announced that going forward more and more of the new features would require a fairly strong GPU. You are working with 45mp photos. Maybe larger later?

Unfortunately, Apple has still not fixed the Neural Engine bugs introduced in Ventura that Adobe, DxO, and Topaz has said means they cannot use it for AI stuff (DxO later came out with a temporary kludge while waiting for Apple to fix it). DxO says it was good in Monterey though. Sonoma has still not fixed the problems. The Neural Engine is a core component of Apple Silicon and major photo processing companies for a year have been saying it is broken since Ventura came out. See this for more info:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67334501

Read through this post and the links for full info about the Neural Engine bugs:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67299489

ArtIsRight talked about the Neural Engine problem in his video:

My thoughts about the new M3 Macs

For those who do not know about the Apple Silicon GPU and the similar Nvidia Cuda cores and Tensor cores which are similar to the NE then see this:

What are Apple's GPU cores?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67117906

Neural Engine - Nvidia CUDA Cores vs. Tensor Cores: What's the Difference?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67118578

Personally, I do not buy with the expectation that I will use for 10 years. Having said that, I do have 4 old Windows laptops (oldest is over 11 years old) that still run fine with Windows 10 and LrC works pretty well on them (my largest photos are 20mp though) -- all have an SSD, one has 32gb RAM, three have 8gb RAM.

With Macs though I prefer to get what I think will work fine for 2-3 years and then see how things look after that time. My current 16" M2 Pro 12/19 MBP 32gb/1tb may very well be going strong and working well a decade from now, but probably when the M4 comes out I will likely be tempted to buy a new one. The way Apple has been releasing Apple Silicon with a new version about every year I suspect the M4 will be sometime next year.

 

[cpharm86]

I use a Canon R5, 45mp camera. Lightroom, Photoshop and DXO.

A friend of mine also shoots with a 45mp Canon R5 and uses Lightroom Classic. See this post:

32gb Intel Mac owner with LrC 12.5

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67267326

So to sum it up, 32gb would suffice in the long run? I keep my computers a long time as you see from my original post.

Yes, I saw that you like to buy and then use for many years. If you want to use a Mac and it run well for 7-10 years then, I guess, you would probably want to get 64gb as a minimum, but consider 96gb, 128gb, etc. Also, the highest SoC (M3 Max 16/40). 10 years is a hell of a long time with computers and also Lightroom Classic and other software is more and more making more use of the GPU for AI stuff. A few month ago Adobe announced that going forward more and more of the new features would require a fairly strong GPU. You are working with 45mp photos. Maybe larger later?

Unfortunately, Apple has still not fixed the Neural Engine bugs introduced in Ventura that Adobe, DxO, and Topaz has said means they cannot use it for AI stuff (DxO later came out with a temporary kludge while waiting for Apple to fix it). DxO says it was good in Monterey though. Sonoma has still not fixed the problems. The Neural Engine is a core component of Apple Silicon and major photo processing companies for a year have been saying it is broken since Ventura came out. See this for more info:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67334501

Read through this post and the links for full info about the Neural Engine bugs:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67299489

ArtIsRight talked about the Neural Engine problem in his video:

My thoughts about the new M3 Macs

For those who do not know about the Apple Silicon GPU and the similar Nvidia Cuda cores and Tensor cores which are similar to the NE then see this:

What are Apple's GPU cores?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67117906

Neural Engine - Nvidia CUDA Cores vs. Tensor Cores: What's the Difference?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67118578

Personally, I do not buy with the expectation that I will use for 10 years. Having said that, I do have 4 old Windows laptops (oldest is over 11 years old) that still run fine with Windows 10 and LrC works pretty well on them (my largest photos are 20mp though) -- all have an SSD, one has 32gb RAM, three have 8gb RAM.

With Macs though I prefer to get what I think will work fine for 2-3 years and then see how things look after that time. My current 16" M2 Pro 12/19 MBP 32gb/1tb may very well be going strong and working well a decade from now, but probably when the M4 comes out I will likely be tempted to buy a new one. The way Apple has been releasing Apple Silicon with a new version about every year I suspect the M4 will be sometime next year.

Thank you for the resources.

 

[Henry Richardson]

Yes, I saw that you like to buy and then use for many years. If you want to use a Mac and it run well for 7-10 years then, I guess, you would probably want to get 64gb as a minimum, but consider 96gb, 128gb, etc. Also, the highest SoC (M3 Max 16/40). 10 years is a hell of a long time with computers and also Lightroom Classic and other software is more and more making more use of the GPU for AI stuff. A few month ago Adobe announced that going forward more and more of the new features would require a fairly strong GPU. You are working with 45mp photos. Maybe larger later?

Unfortunately, Apple has still not fixed the Neural Engine bugs introduced in Ventura that Adobe, DxO, and Topaz has said means they cannot use it for AI stuff (DxO later came out with a temporary kludge while waiting for Apple to fix it). DxO says it was good in Monterey though. Sonoma has still not fixed the problems. The Neural Engine is a core component of Apple Silicon and major photo processing companies for a year have been saying it is broken since Ventura came out. See this for more info:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67334501

Read through this post and the links for full info about the Neural Engine bugs:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67299489

ArtIsRight talked about the Neural Engine problem in his video:

My thoughts about the new M3 Macs

For those who do not know about the Apple Silicon GPU and the similar Nvidia Cuda cores and Tensor cores which are similar to the NE then see this:

What are Apple's GPU cores?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67117906

Neural Engine - Nvidia CUDA Cores vs. Tensor Cores: What's the Difference?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67118578

Personally, I do not buy with the expectation that I will use for 10 years. Having said that, I do have 4 old Windows laptops (oldest is over 11 years old) that still run fine with Windows 10 and LrC works pretty well on them (my largest photos are 20mp though) -- all have an SSD, one has 32gb RAM, three have 8gb RAM.

With Macs though I prefer to get what I think will work fine for 2-3 years and then see how things look after that time. My current 16" M2 Pro 12/19 MBP 32gb/1tb may very well be going strong and working well a decade from now, but probably when the M4 comes out I will likely be tempted to buy a new one. The way Apple has been releasing Apple Silicon with a new version about every year I suspect the M4 will be sometime next year.

Keep in mind that in 10 years when you are still using your M2 Max Mac the M12 Max or M13 Max may be the current SoC. Who knows how much faster they will be, how many CPU cores they will have, how many GPU cores they will have, how much memory they will have, etc. And who knows what the software in a decade will need to run well. I do not know.

 

[Henry Richardson]

Yes, I saw that you like to buy and then use for many years. If you want to use a Mac and it run well for 7-10 years then, I guess, you would probably want to get 64gb as a minimum, but consider 96gb, 128gb, etc. Also, the highest SoC (M3 Max 16/40). 10 years is a hell of a long time with computers and also Lightroom Classic and other software is more and more making more use of the GPU for AI stuff. A few month ago Adobe announced that going forward more and more of the new features would require a fairly strong GPU. You are working with 45mp photos. Maybe larger later?

Unfortunately, Apple has still not fixed the Neural Engine bugs introduced in Ventura that Adobe, DxO, and Topaz has said means they cannot use it for AI stuff (DxO later came out with a temporary kludge while waiting for Apple to fix it). DxO says it was good in Monterey though. Sonoma has still not fixed the problems. The Neural Engine is a core component of Apple Silicon and major photo processing companies for a year have been saying it is broken since Ventura came out. See this for more info:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67334501

Read through this post and the links for full info about the Neural Engine bugs:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67299489

ArtIsRight talked about the Neural Engine problem in his video:

My thoughts about the new M3 Macs

For those who do not know about the Apple Silicon GPU and the similar Nvidia Cuda cores and Tensor cores which are similar to the NE then see this:

What are Apple's GPU cores?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67117906

Neural Engine - Nvidia CUDA Cores vs. Tensor Cores: What's the Difference?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67118578

Personally, I do not buy with the expectation that I will use for 10 years. Having said that, I do have 4 old Windows laptops (oldest is over 11 years old) that still run fine with Windows 10 and LrC works pretty well on them (my largest photos are 20mp though) -- all have an SSD, one has 32gb RAM, three have 8gb RAM.

With Macs though I prefer to get what I think will work fine for 2-3 years and then see how things look after that time. My current 16" M2 Pro 12/19 MBP 32gb/1tb may very well be going strong and working well a decade from now, but probably when the M4 comes out I will likely be tempted to buy a new one. The way Apple has been releasing Apple Silicon with a new version about every year I suspect the M4 will be sometime next year.

Keep in mind that in 10 years when you are still using your M2 Max Mac the M12 Max or M13 Max may be the current SoC. Who knows how much faster they will be, how many CPU cores they will have, how many GPU cores they will have, how much memory they will have, etc. And who knows what the software in a decade will need to run well. I do not know.

How long does Apple support old Macs with MacOS/security updates? Do they still provide them for Macs that are a decade old? Since Apple Silicon came out 3 years ago the number of Macs has increased a lot and the malware targeting them has increased a lot too.

 

[DM-CO]

How long does Apple support old Macs with MacOS/security updates? Do they still provide them for Macs that are a decade old? Since Apple Silicon came out 3 years ago the number of Macs has increased a lot and the malware targeting them has increased a lot too.

Apple “generally” has OS upgrades that allow machines in the 5-6-year range to get the new operating system. After that, Apple supports the old operating system with security patches for 2 years. It is said however that Apple is not especially quick to release patches during that 2-year period,

So, call it 5 or 6+2 = 7-8 years of either new operating system support or patches to old OS.

 

[Henry Richardson]

How long does Apple support old Macs with MacOS/security updates? Do they still provide them for Macs that are a decade old? Since Apple Silicon came out 3 years ago the number of Macs has increased a lot and the malware targeting them has increased a lot too.

Apple “generally” has OS upgrades that allow machines in the 5-6-year range to get the new operating system. After that, Apple supports the old operating system with security patches for 2 years. It is said however that Apple is not especially quick to release patches during that 2-year period,

So, call it 5 or 6+2 = 7-8 years of either new operating system support or patches to old OS.

Thank you for the info.

 

[Michael Gebauer]

I’m looking forward to your review.

This will be my second 5K display to be added to my Mac Studio beside the LG. Advantage of the Samsung ViewFinity S90PC: I can add multiple sources in parallel to it (e.g. my Windows PC beside the Mac Studio).

PS: I use the Mac Studio instead because of video and audio demands

The Samsung ViewFinitiy S9 was delivered yesterday.

It offers SmartTV functions that I personally don't need. After installing updates, I disconnected the network from the monitor so as not to be disturbed by carelessness Netflix, Prime, TV, ....

A remote control is also included because of the smart functions. This is also required to operate the device conveniently.

I tried the device with Thunderbolt on the Mac and USB-C on the PC. The monitor is pre-calibrated and offers very good picture quality with 5k resolution on the Mac and 4k resolution on the PC. As there is only one common monitor input for TB/USB-C, I have to decide which computer should be actively connected.

As soon as the HDMI-> MiniDP adapter is delivered, I will connect the PC in parallel to the Mac and try out how to switch between the two worlds more easily.

The Samsung looks a lot like the Apple Studio Display, even though the frame is made of plastic and not aluminum. The relatively large external power adapter is worth mentioning.

Mac Studio with 2 5K displays and a Eizo hardware calibrated monitor in the middle

Here is a setup for photo working with a MacStudio attached to 3 displays running Capture One in a 2 display setup (browser + viewer) and Photoshop in the left display.
As I have multiple computers (1 MacStudio and 2 PCs, not counting the MacBook) on my desk, the setup allows me to run at least two monitors on each of them.

 

[Nick on the Baltic]

How long does Apple support old Macs with MacOS/security updates? Do they still provide them for Macs that are a decade old? Since Apple Silicon came out 3 years ago the number of Macs has increased a lot and the malware targeting them has increased a lot too.

I'm running a MacBook Pro which has just passed its 10th birthday. See below. The latest OS it can run is Big Sur. It last received a security update on 11th September this year.

More info at https://endoflife.date/macos



--
Nick on the Baltic

 

[cpharm86]

I’m looking forward to your review.

This will be my second 5K display to be added to my Mac Studio beside the LG. Advantage of the Samsung ViewFinity S90PC: I can add multiple sources in parallel to it (e.g. my Windows PC beside the Mac Studio).

PS: I use the Mac Studio instead because of video and audio demands

The Samsung ViewFinitiy S9 was delivered yesterday.

It offers SmartTV functions that I personally don't need. After installing updates, I disconnected the network from the monitor so as not to be disturbed by carelessness Netflix, Prime, TV, ....

A remote control is also included because of the smart functions. This is also required to operate the device conveniently.

I tried the device with Thunderbolt on the Mac and USB-C on the PC. The monitor is pre-calibrated and offers very good picture quality with 5k resolution on the Mac and 4k resolution on the PC. As there is only one common monitor input for TB/USB-C, I have to decide which computer should be actively connected.

As soon as the HDMI-> MiniDP adapter is delivered, I will connect the PC in parallel to the Mac and try out how to switch between the two worlds more easily.

The Samsung looks a lot like the Apple Studio Display, even though the frame is made of plastic and not aluminum. The relatively large external power adapter is worth mentioning.

Mac Studio with 2 5K displays and a Eizo hardware calibrated monitor in the middle

Here is a setup for photo working with a MacStudio attached to 3 displays running Capture One in a 2 display setup (browser + viewer) and Photoshop in the left display.
As I have multiple computers (1 MacStudio and 2 PCs, not counting the MacBook) on my desk, the setup allows me to run at least two monitors on each of them.

Thank you for the review. I will not have that type of setup but rather 1 computer to 1 monitor. I will definitely take a look at this monitor. I am almost ready to make my computer purchase along with a monitor.

 

[lightandaprayer]

MacOS, Safari and similar Apple security updates aside, there are some third-party security applications that are valuable supplements to our Mac's built-in anti-malware protections. In some cases, they surpass the Apple software protective capabilities. . .

Objective-See The 3 basic apps that I rely on are Lulu, BlockBlock and Ransomwhere? because they can protect against the installation of malware and malignant data encryption. But there are other useful apps available from Objective-See.

When I have run older Macs these apps continue to provide protection against arguably the many of the most common malware average users are likely to confront.

Web browsers are another matter. . . Since these days they are a common vector for malware, it behooves us to take advantage of any built-in and third-party extensions. I use Safari, Brave (a privacy-security oriented Chrome variant) and Firefox. (The latter two have more available extensions.)

 

[Henry Richardson]

Yes, I saw that you like to buy and then use for many years. If you want to use a Mac and it run well for 7-10 years then, I guess, you would probably want to get 64gb as a minimum, but consider 96gb, 128gb, etc. Also, the highest SoC (M3 Max 16/40). 10 years is a hell of a long time with computers and also Lightroom Classic and other software is more and more making more use of the GPU for AI stuff. A few month ago Adobe announced that going forward more and more of the new features would require a fairly strong GPU. You are working with 45mp photos. Maybe larger later?

Unfortunately, Apple has still not fixed the Neural Engine bugs introduced in Ventura that Adobe, DxO, and Topaz has said means they cannot use it for AI stuff (DxO later came out with a temporary kludge while waiting for Apple to fix it). DxO says it was good in Monterey though. Sonoma has still not fixed the problems. The Neural Engine is a core component of Apple Silicon and major photo processing companies for a year have been saying it is broken since Ventura came out. See this for more info:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67334501

Read through this post and the links for full info about the Neural Engine bugs:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67299489

ArtIsRight talked about the Neural Engine problem in his video:

My thoughts about the new M3 Macs

For those who do not know about the Apple Silicon GPU and the similar Nvidia Cuda cores and Tensor cores which are similar to the NE then see this:

What are Apple's GPU cores?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67117906

Neural Engine - Nvidia CUDA Cores vs. Tensor Cores: What's the Difference?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67118578

Personally, I do not buy with the expectation that I will use for 10 years. Having said that, I do have 4 old Windows laptops (oldest is over 11 years old) that still run fine with Windows 10 and LrC works pretty well on them (my largest photos are 20mp though) -- all have an SSD, one has 32gb RAM, three have 8gb RAM.

With Macs though I prefer to get what I think will work fine for 2-3 years and then see how things look after that time. My current 16" M2 Pro 12/19 MBP 32gb/1tb may very well be going strong and working well a decade from now, but probably when the M4 comes out I will likely be tempted to buy a new one. The way Apple has been releasing Apple Silicon with a new version about every year I suspect the M4 will be sometime next year.

Keep in mind that in 10 years when you are still using your M2 Max Mac the M12 Max or M13 Max may be the current SoC. Who knows how much faster they will be, how many CPU cores they will have, how many GPU cores they will have, how much memory they will have, etc. And who knows what the software in a decade will need to run well. I do not know.

How long does Apple support old Macs with MacOS/security updates? Do they still provide them for Macs that are a decade old? Since Apple Silicon came out 3 years ago the number of Macs has increased a lot and the malware targeting them has increased a lot too.

How long do Adobe, DxO, Topaz, On1, etc. usually continue to support old versions of MacOS? If you have a Mac that is, for example, 8 years old, and is running a MacOS from 4 years ago do most of the various companies with their current software versions still make them work on old versions of MacOS and old versions of Mac hardware?

 

[KE_DP]

I am almost ready to make my computer purchase along with a monitor.

I've been closely watching and participating a bit as I'm soon going to move from a last gen iMac 64/2 (booting from external SSD) to Mac Studio M2 64/2.

Two things I'm going to mention - 1. Wait for Black Friday. 2. Check out Expercom.com (Apple reseller). they seem to have the best deals going on new Macs at the moment and have indicated they will have something going on for Black Friday.

Still waiting for the Apple Studio Display refurbs to come back to Ebay. They were $1200 and sold out, Regretting not getting one when I saw it first time around.

 

[cpharm86]

I am almost ready to make my computer purchase along with a monitor.

I've been closely watching and participating a bit as I'm soon going to move from a last gen iMac 64/2 (booting from external SSD) to Mac Studio M2 64/2.

I just checked the Expercom site and the Mac Studio I was planning on getting 64/2 is currently $2,849 vs $2,999 from Apple. I’ll keep an eye on this site. I was not acquainted with it prior.

Thank you

Two things I'm going to mention - 1. Wait for Black Friday. 2. Check out Expercom.com (Apple reseller). they seem to have the best deals going on new Macs at the moment and have indicated they will have something going on for Black Friday.

Still waiting for the Apple Studio Display refurbs to come back to Ebay. They were $1200 and sold out, Regretting not getting one when I saw it first time around

 

[cpharm86]

I finally made a decision and purchased the Mac Studio.

64GB memory, Apple M2 Max with 12-core CPU, 30-Core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine and 2TB SSD storage.

I purchased the Apple Studio Display from Costco for $1349 which was $250 less than Apples price.

I received the monitor and will have the Mac Studio in about a week. My original budget was $3,500 but went to $4,700 with the monitor.

Considering how long I keep computers this should keep me going for awhile.

Thank you everyone for your input and suggestions.

Pete

 

[greenmanphoto]

Pete,

Sounds like you did pretty well! I think that, as you said, it'll last you for quite a while. I'm curious about the Apple monitor, too, as I'd like to eventually get a second monitor for my iMac. I have one now, but also need to use it at times for my day job's computer.

Sam