Fuji X-H2s - video "over" sharpening?

[saltydogstudios]

I've been a Fuji shooter for a while now - close to a decade and have ~3 generations of Fuji sensors. (5 if you count the S-5 Pro and original X-100)

I'm strongly considering a Nikon Z8 for a number of reasons, but one of the main ones is the super high resolution video. Something I can grab a still of and print at a decent size.

But before I made an expensive switch, I decided to look at what Fuji has to offer and researched the X-H2s. (I know the X-h2 has 8k video and a higher megapixel sensor, but it has more rolling shutter and the open-gate mode on the X-H2 has me intrigued - it's essentially the full sensor resolution being used for video.

This reviewer points out the sharpening that happens in camera, even at the lowest setting. I suspect this an artifact of the X-Trans sensor / demosaicing + noise reduction, since SOOC JPGs have a similar look to my eyes. Everything has a "sharp yet smooth" look, not unlike surface blur.

At least while shooting stills, you could choose RAW and choose a post processor, but while shooting video, this kind of thing can't be undone. This is an effect I like sometimes, but not always, and very much part of the Fuji look to my eyes, starting around X-Trans III.

Any Fuji video shooters have any thoughts on this topic?



Some sample videos

You can see the effect occasionally here - when certain objects are in focus they "pop" out of the screen, particularly the engraved terracotta sculptures. Interestingly it lingers close up on one for a while and you can see quite a bit of the - sort of brush strokes - in the pot, but more in the darker areas, I'm also wondering if detail is lost in the blanket. The text in the books really strongly shows this effect, they almost look CG they're so clean.



This is a guy just learning the camera, but you can see the "smooth yet sharp" all over the video and stills, but he's probably just using default settings. The back alleys almost look like computer game renders rather than gritty streets with flaking paint and dirt and so forth.



This video distinctly lacks it and looks better (to my taste) but he's using a vintage lens, and I suspect knows to dial down sharpness for his aesthetic and possibly even dial's it down in post - honestly no idea what his workflow was.



Fuji video shooters - what are your thoughts on this? It's not a look I'm particularly attracted to so I may end up having to make the expensive switch to Nikon. I think the Fuji would produce beautiful videos, but not to my aesthetic.

 

[Bast Hotep]

I don't have the time to go through all those, but is it possible people are not post-processing or even using professional video formats? I don't always like my stills SOOC either!

 

[Mr Bolton]

Thank you for sharing The Man in Bed. Happens to be rather apropos for me, today.

Also, I rather liked the way it was rendered by the camera.

 

[saltydogstudios]

I don't have the time to go through all those, but is it possible people are not post-processing or even using professional video formats? I don't always like my stills SOOC either!

If you don't want to watch all of them, I suggest the 30 seconds starting here:

A bit earlier he states that he shot in FLog2 and color graded.

I suspect this "look" is somewhat unavoidable if using X-Trans and Fuji's demosaicing + noise reduction algorithms, which have nothing to do with color grading or the resulting file format.

 

[saltydogstudios]

Thank you for sharing The Man in Bed. Happens to be rather apropos for me, today.

Also, I rather liked the way it was rendered by the camera.

Yes, that was a great video, happy to have stumbled on it (and his channel) while researching cameras. I'm a fan of veiled flaring, when used appropriately, so his use of vintage lenses & colors was great.

 

[maltmoose]

Some nice videos there. The last one looks very pleasing, i thought maybe the use of a diffusion filter and some processing. Anyway, if im honest im not really seeing the oversharpening on the vids im watching although can see the comparison against the sony in the other video. Maybe just skill level on production and filming. The only real thing im noticing against my a7iv is more noise in some situations. I dont have the xh2 or s but just watching videos and some chat about them as xh2s has been on my radar but havnt pulled the trigger.

 

[Bast Hotep]

I don't have the time to go through all those, but is it possible people are not post-processing or even using professional video formats? I don't always like my stills SOOC either!

If you don't want to watch all of them, I suggest the 30 seconds starting here:

A bit earlier he states that he shot in FLog2 and color graded.

I suspect this "look" is somewhat unavoidable if using X-Trans and Fuji's demosaicing + noise reduction algorithms, which have nothing to do with color grading or the resulting file format.

Hmm, you might have something there.

Could one of those "black mist filters" solve this problem?

 

[NottsPhoto]

The difference between the a7s and xh2s isn’t because the Fuji “oversharpens”… it’s because the Sony has an AA filter… the Sony chips AA filter degrades the sharpness.

The reviewer fails to grasp that the AA filter reduces the image quality.. and disparages the fuji to assuage his cognitive dissonance around his discovery that his A7s3, lauded by pundits everywhere, delivers a image quality lower in some respects than a fuji…

It’s not a flaw with the Fuji, it’s an advantage… if you want to control your sharpness, and the ultimate quality, then you choose the Fuji over the Sony.

You can always desharpen in post..

The xh2s is an exceptional video camera, and it’s “aesthetic” is entirely within your control, limited really only by your post budget and skill.

Open gate is a game changer, any camera that doesn’t shoot that, is now obsolete.

We shoot one take, and get every ratio we need, and massive flexibility in post due to the high resolution.

As for stills, we regularly pull stills off em for clients from finished projects, and they are used on billboards and the sides of buses.



There’s an enormous snobbery about video and the “correct” brands for “pro’s”

Bizarelly folks seem to think spending more, means better or more “pro”, when in reality there’s a sweet spot for price/capability.

That changes on a regular basis as cameras with new capabilities are released,( and varies according to client technical needs )that spot right now for imho everything except top flight production is the xh2s, it’s the most profitable camera money can buy right now, and that’s how you judge a camera if your using it to make a living.

Dont make the mistake of thinking the 8k Nikon is a better camera, it’s not… it’s just more expensive, and the “aesthetic” you don’t Like is because the fuji captures a better image, it’s not degrading In camera to solve an issue it doesn’t have.

We have several of them, and we are shooting content for huge brands for BVOD, Social, Web, Hi-end display, and even in cinemas.

Folks complaining the fuji is too sharp don’t understand what’s going on.

 

[Kaoticphoto]

up to 4k60 fuji is oversampled and resized, so for sure sharper with better details than the sony, with better bitrate and codecs, so no surprise here.

xh2s in flog2 has a great DR and it get really really clean with some NR in DaVinci, having open gate as a huge bonus.

if you don't need some specific feature missing in the fuji, video IQ is better then sony at reasonable ISO (I always suggest to use xh2s at the base 1250 iso)

if you prefer a softer look, just use some soft fx diffusion filter

 

[saltydogstudios]

Sorry - I'm having a hard time responding to you - you have some logical arguments. The A7s has a weak AA filter. More cameras should offer "open gate".

But the whole "people don't know what pro means, by the way i'm a pro, and this camera is pro but that camera is not pro" tirade makes me think any logical arguments I put forth wouldn't get a fair hearing.

90% of the time when "pro" is brought up in this forum, it's introduced as a logical fallacy, intended to stop open discussion. So - congratulations on a job done.

The difference between the a7s and xh2s isn’t because the Fuji “oversharpens”… it’s because the Sony has an AA filter… the Sony chips AA filter degrades the sharpness.
The reviewer fails to grasp that the AA filter reduces the image quality.. and disparages the fuji to assuage his cognitive dissonance around his discovery that his A7s3, lauded by pundits everywhere, delivers a image quality lower in some respects than a fuji…

It’s not a flaw with the Fuji, it’s an advantage… if you want to control your sharpness, and the ultimate quality, then you choose the Fuji over the Sony.
You can always desharpen in post..

The xh2s is an exceptional video camera, and it’s “aesthetic” is entirely within your control, limited really only by your post budget and skill.

Open gate is a game changer, any camera that doesn’t shoot that, is now obsolete.

We shoot one take, and get every ratio we need, and massive flexibility in post due to the high resolution.

As for stills, we regularly pull stills off em for clients from finished projects, and they are used on billboards and the sides of buses.

There’s an enormous snobbery about video and the “correct” brands for “pro’s”

Bizarelly folks seem to think spending more, means better or more “pro”, when in reality there’s a sweet spot for price/capability.

That changes on a regular basis as cameras with new capabilities are released,( and varies according to client technical needs )that spot right now for imho everything except top flight production is the xh2s, it’s the most profitable camera money can buy right now, and that’s how you judge a camera if your using it to make a living.

Dont make the mistake of thinking the 8k Nikon is a better camera, it’s not… it’s just more expensive, and the “aesthetic” you don’t Like is because the fuji captures a better image, it’s not degrading In camera to solve an issue it doesn’t have.

We have several of them, and we are shooting content for huge brands for BVOD, Social, Web, Hi-end display, and even in cinemas.
Folks complaining the fuji is too sharp don’t understand what’s going on.

--
"no one should have a camera that can't play Candy Crush Saga."
https://www.instagram.com/sodiumstudio/
Camera JPG Portrait Shootout http://sodium.nyc/blog/2020/05/camera-jpg-portrait

 

[saltydogstudios]

I don't have the time to go through all those, but is it possible people are not post-processing or even using professional video formats? I don't always like my stills SOOC either!

If you don't want to watch all of them, I suggest the 30 seconds starting here:

A bit earlier he states that he shot in FLog2 and color graded.

I suspect this "look" is somewhat unavoidable if using X-Trans and Fuji's demosaicing + noise reduction algorithms, which have nothing to do with color grading or the resulting file format.

Hmm, you might have something there.

Could one of those "black mist filters" solve this problem?

Honestly - not sure. A Black Mist or similar would introduce blooming. It’s also intended to have a “smooth yet sharp” aesthetic - similar to spherical aberration, which may double up on the Fuji look I described in the OP rather than tone it down.

I own a Tiffen version and while it’s got an interesting look, it’s not what I’m going for. It’s a fun look, but I’d limit it (personally) to when I want lights at night to bloom, but not for everyday use.

--
"no one should have a camera that can't play Candy Crush Saga."
https://www.instagram.com/sodiumstudio/
Camera JPG Portrait Shootout http://sodium.nyc/blog/2020/05/camera-jpg-portrait

 

[NottsPhoto]

**asks what video users of the camera think… gets what is asked for, rejects answer as “argumentum ab auctoritate” **


As a student of logic, no doubt you will recognise the Ad hominem you have made.

(and the one I just made…)

Ergo decedo.

Sorry - I'm having a hard time responding to you - you have some logical arguments. The A7s has a weak AA filter. More cameras should offer "open gate".

But the whole "people don't know what pro means, by the way i'm a pro, and this camera is pro but that camera is not pro" tirade makes me think any logical arguments I put forth wouldn't get a fair hearing.

90% of the time when "pro" is brought up in this forum, it's introduced as a logical fallacy, intended to stop open discussion. So - congratulations on a job done.

The difference between the a7s and xh2s isn’t because the Fuji “oversharpens”… it’s because the Sony has an AA filter… the Sony chips AA filter degrades the sharpness.
The reviewer fails to grasp that the AA filter reduces the image quality.. and disparages the fuji to assuage his cognitive dissonance around his discovery that his A7s3, lauded by pundits everywhere, delivers a image quality lower in some respects than a fuji…

It’s not a flaw with the Fuji, it’s an advantage… if you want to control your sharpness, and the ultimate quality, then you choose the Fuji over the Sony.
You can always desharpen in post..

The xh2s is an exceptional video camera, and it’s “aesthetic” is entirely within your control, limited really only by your post budget and skill.

Open gate is a game changer, any camera that doesn’t shoot that, is now obsolete.

We shoot one take, and get every ratio we need, and massive flexibility in post due to the high resolution.

As for stills, we regularly pull stills off em for clients from finished projects, and they are used on billboards and the sides of buses.

There’s an enormous snobbery about video and the “correct” brands for “pro’s”

Bizarelly folks seem to think spending more, means better or more “pro”, when in reality there’s a sweet spot for price/capability.

That changes on a regular basis as cameras with new capabilities are released,( and varies according to client technical needs )that spot right now for imho everything except top flight production is the xh2s, it’s the most profitable camera money can buy right now, and that’s how you judge a camera if your using it to make a living.

Dont make the mistake of thinking the 8k Nikon is a better camera, it’s not… it’s just more expensive, and the “aesthetic” you don’t Like is because the fuji captures a better image, it’s not degrading In camera to solve an issue it doesn’t have.

We have several of them, and we are shooting content for huge brands for BVOD, Social, Web, Hi-end display, and even in cinemas.
Folks complaining the fuji is too sharp don’t understand what’s going on.

 

[Justin Cider]

The difference between the a7s and xh2s isn’t because the Fuji “oversharpens”… it’s because the Sony has an AA filter… the Sony chips AA filter degrades the sharpness.
The reviewer fails to grasp that the AA filter reduces the image quality.. and disparages the fuji to assuage his cognitive dissonance around his discovery that his A7s3, lauded by pundits everywhere, delivers a image quality lower in some respects than a fuji…

It’s not a flaw with the Fuji, it’s an advantage… if you want to control your sharpness, and the ultimate quality, then you choose the Fuji over the Sony.
You can always desharpen in post..

The xh2s is an exceptional video camera, and it’s “aesthetic” is entirely within your control, limited really only by your post budget and skill.

Open gate is a game changer, any camera that doesn’t shoot that, is now obsolete.

We shoot one take, and get every ratio we need, and massive flexibility in post due to the high resolution.

As for stills, we regularly pull stills off em for clients from finished projects, and they are used on billboards and the sides of buses.

There’s an enormous snobbery about video and the “correct” brands for “pro’s”

Bizarelly folks seem to think spending more, means better or more “pro”, when in reality there’s a sweet spot for price/capability.

That changes on a regular basis as cameras with new capabilities are released,( and varies according to client technical needs )that spot right now for imho everything except top flight production is the xh2s, it’s the most profitable camera money can buy right now, and that’s how you judge a camera if your using it to make a living.

Dont make the mistake of thinking the 8k Nikon is a better camera, it’s not… it’s just more expensive, and the “aesthetic” you don’t Like is because the fuji captures a better image, it’s not degrading In camera to solve an issue it doesn’t have.

We have several of them, and we are shooting content for huge brands for BVOD, Social, Web, Hi-end display, and even in cinemas.
Folks complaining the fuji is too sharp don’t understand what’s going on.

 

[saltydogstudios]

Hmm, found another video of someone wanting to "take the edge off" of his Fuji X-H2S by using various blur tools in DaVinci Resolve

At 2:30