Win 10. Backup question. How to?

[Fishrman]

I have always struggled with backing up my computer. For some reason I just don't understand the best way to do it so if something catastrophic happened I could get a different computer or hard drive and get most everything back to where it was before the problem. A couple years ago I downloaded AOMEI Backupper. I don't understand it, frankly. Now, it is my understanding that Win 10 has its own backup program. I am wondering if I should just use it and delete the AOMEI or perhaps keep it? I am also thinking, at the same time, maybe I should go ahead and go with Win 11. I always put off new operating systems as I don't like trying to learn new tricks. Does Win 11 also have a backup program and would you recommend that? I think some do a backup and have it backup to a separate part of their drive or perhaps a separate external drive and have backups made every hour or every day or week etc., keeping it plugged into the computer. To me, this could also cause a problem if you got a bug that wipes things out. I am thinking a separate hard drive should be used but not left plugged in all the time but just plugged in and run a new backup when you feel it is warranted. Any suggestions or help for someone that obviously doesn't know what he is doing is going to be very helpful!

 

[1DSmII]

I don't think any one has mentioned it, and perhaps it's obvious to most of us who have been using PCs for a long time, but I think it's worth mentioning that it's a very good idea to keep all your data on a separate physical drive from your system drive.

It makes things much simpler when it comes to backing up, and in particular if things do go wrong.

 

[Austinian]

I don't think any one has mentioned it, and perhaps it's obvious to most of us who have been using PCs for a long time, but I think it's worth mentioning that it's a very good idea to keep all your data on a separate physical drive from your system drive.

It makes things much simpler when it comes to backing up, and in particular if things do go wrong.

That depends, IMO. Separate system and data drives seem more common here.

However, I personally want to back up both my system updates and data updates. I've had no problems with keeping data on the same drives as my OSs.

What I do divide is the purpose of my drives; I have a primary Windows drive with my important data and a gaming/testing Windows drive I back up less often and am less paranoid about securing.

(Also a third drive, usually with Linux, but that's not really relevant to this.)

If I had multiple terabytes of data as some do here, I might do things differently. Just mentioning this, not suggesting it for others.

 

[LynniePad]

I have always struggled with backing up my computer. For some reason I just don't understand the best way to do it so if something catastrophic happened I could get a different computer or hard drive and get most everything back to where it was before the problem.

It’s a really good idea to back up your data, and this is easy, provided that you have a well-designed folder system. I simply copy the data folder to external USB HDDs about once a month. In addition, I have a special Incremental/Cumulative backup process that I use as often as required to add new or altered files to an attached SSD backup disk. I use the built-in Robocopy program, which does its work in a matter of seconds.

I doubt I have a well designed folder system. Most of what I have are photos, emails and taxes.

Nothing fancy required.

There’s three users here, and each has a main folder under the general “Shared” folder on the server. It’s then each user’s responsibility to create sub-folders as required.

Backup is then just a matter of saving “Shared”. Did you also see mention of “Incremental” backup in my earlier post? Takes just seconds to add recent work to an external SSD, and is worth following up if you are interested.

I have separate storage for Photos, arranged by Project, Location or Occasion, also easily backed up.

• 16-35mm Sony tests
• Italy 2015 (with sub-folders)
• Sophie graduation

Our emails service uses the IMAP protocol, which means that the ISP acts as the server, and emails can be viewed on any local device (Computer, Mobile phone, iPad). Our practice is to save important emails as MS-Word documents, saving them to the appropriate user folder. Mundane emails are dealt with, and eventually flushed.

Note that there is mutual trust in our group, so no privacy issues.

An early experience with home computing was very instructive. A young family friend, who was supposedly computer literate, was showing me his new computer (PC 286), and I asked him where the files were kept. His response was to wave vaguely at the computer and say: “In there somewhere”. I knew then that there would be a benefit in being more specific!

 

[1DSmII]

I don't think any one has mentioned it, and perhaps it's obvious to most of us who have been using PCs for a long time, but I think it's worth mentioning that it's a very good idea to keep all your data on a separate physical drive from your system drive.

It makes things much simpler when it comes to backing up, and in particular if things do go wrong.

That depends, IMO. Separate system and data drives seem more common here.

However, I personally want to back up both my system updates and data updates. I've had no problems with keeping data on the same drives as my OSs.

What I do divide is the purpose of my drives; I have a primary Windows drive with my important data and a gaming/testing Windows drive I back up less often and am less paranoid about securing.

(Also a third drive, usually with Linux, but that's not really relevant to this.)

If I had multiple terabytes of data as some do here, I might do things differently. Just mentioning this, not suggesting it for others.

Of course, separate OS/data drives are not compulsory, and perhaps in some circumstances it makes sense not to, but for me it makes sense. I do have to deal with quite a bit of data though.

Also, it makes more sense because of the way I set up my PCs: Usually no more than 120 GB system drive (Windows), so not a huge amount of room for data storage, but it means I don't have to spend much (relatively speaking) on the system drive.

 

[LynniePad]

I don't think any one has mentioned it, and perhaps it's obvious to most of us who have been using PCs for a long time, but I think it's worth mentioning that it's a very good idea to keep all your data on a separate physical drive from your system drive.

It makes things much simpler when it comes to backing up, and in particular if things do go wrong.

That depends, IMO. Separate system and data drives seem more common here.

However, I personally want to back up both my system updates and data updates. I've had no problems with keeping data on the same drives as my OSs.

What I do divide is the purpose of my drives; I have a primary Windows drive with my important data and a gaming/testing Windows drive I back up less often and am less paranoid about securing.

(Also a third drive, usually with Linux, but that's not really relevant to this.)

If I had multiple terabytes of data as some do here, I might do things differently. Just mentioning this, not suggesting it for others.

Of course, separate OS/data drives are not compulsory, and perhaps in some circumstances it makes sense not to, but for me it makes sense. I do have to deal with quite a bit of data though.

Also, it makes more sense because of the way I set up my PCs: Usually no more than 120 GB system drive (Windows), so not a huge amount of room for data storage, but it means I don't have to spend much (relatively speaking) on the system drive.

Yes, I have a couple of computers with relatively small OS drives (120Gb & 256Gb), and both are sufficient for Windows and a considerable number of programs.

A separate data drive, whether SSD or HDD makes upgrading easier, and in some cases, having data separate to the OS/Programs disk speeds up operations. I’ve found that very large MS-Word files load faster faster and scroll more smoothly when stored on a separate SSD.

I can’t see why a separate drive would be advantageous for backup, provided the program could manage folders.

 

[SC489]

I recommend Macrium Reflect which is ultra reliable and versatile. Unfortunately they recently stopped providing the free version on their web site but you can still find it elsewhere e.g.

Well, that's odd; at this link: https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

I get this with Firefox and Chrome:



And as of this minute, I get this with Edge:

Clear the browser cache and you will find Macrium no longer offer the free version. See https://www.tenforums.com/backup-restore/200250-macrium-reflect-free-edition-being-retired-soon.html

 

[BobKnDP]

(snip)

Clear the browser cache and you will find Macrium no longer offer the free version. See https://www.tenforums.com/backup-restore/200250-macrium-reflect-free-edition-being-retired-soon.html

I'm not sure of the details, but the X64 bit link here works.

 

[Austinian]

Thanks to Robert Zanatta for identifying the Gs Richcopy post as spam. Deleted.

(this second post to correct my originally mis-replying to the wrong thread starter)

 

[David Lal]

She does understand FreeFileSync, which makes a copy of specified folders and/or drives on external storage. It's possible to browse the backed up (actually sync'd) folders, something you can't do with Macrium. When her PC dies, we'll get a new one and hopefully FreeFileSync can replace everything important.

Have you considered cloud backup with iDrive or Backblaze?

I make a Macrium drive image every evening alternating between either a mechanical HDD or to one of two external USB hard disks. At the end of every month I delete all but the last drive image and so have 12 such images at the end of the year.

Each drive image can be mounted just as if it were itself a disk drive and thus viewed in Windows Explorer.

This 'DOS' command program may be a useful model for some people:

REM copies only new and modified .xl; .mdb and .doc files to drive f

REM - needs to be run as administrator

set SourceDir=c:\myxls
set TargetDir=f:\machine_dlalhp2\myxls
xcopy %SourceDir% %TargetDir% /s /d

set SourceDir=c:\access
set TargetDir=f:\machine_dlalhp2\access
xcopy %SourceDir% %TargetDir% /s /d

set SourceDir=c:\docs
set TargetDir=f:\machine_dlalhp2\docs
xcopy %SourceDir% %TargetDir% /s /d

set SourceDir=c:\photoproject
set TargetDir=f:\machine_dlalhp2\photoproject
xcopy %SourceDir% %TargetDir% /s /d

 

[Billiam29]

This 'DOS' command program may be a useful model for some people:

REM copies only new and modified .xl; .mdb and .doc files to drive f

REM - needs to be run as administrator

set SourceDir=c:\myxls
set TargetDir=f:\machine_dlalhp2\myxls
xcopy %SourceDir% %TargetDir% /s /d

set SourceDir=c:\access
set TargetDir=f:\machine_dlalhp2\access
xcopy %SourceDir% %TargetDir% /s /d

set SourceDir=c:\docs
set TargetDir=f:\machine_dlalhp2\docs
xcopy %SourceDir% %TargetDir% /s /d

set SourceDir=c:\photoproject
set TargetDir=f:\machine_dlalhp2\photoproject
xcopy %SourceDir% %TargetDir% /s /d

IIRC Microsoft has considered xcopy as being deprecated since the introduction of Windows Vista.

 

[LynniePad]

IIRC Microsoft has considered xcopy as being deprecated since the introduction of Windows Vista.

Robocopy replaced xcopy, but the list of powerful switches can be rather daunting.

Comparison of file attributes, and the efficient use of multi-threading makes Robocopy a very fast backup option. A full day’s work is saved (added to backup) in a matter of seconds.

 

[David Lal]

IIRC Microsoft has considered xcopy as being deprecated since the introduction of Windows Vista.

Robocopy replaced xcopy, but the list of powerful switches can be rather daunting.

Comparison of file attributes, and the efficient use of multi-threading makes Robocopy a very fast backup option. A full day’s work is saved (added to backup) in a matter of seconds.

Thank you Lynnie. I was going to ask what the non-deprecated, 'modern' equivalent of xcopy is. I'll have a look.

xcopy works for me though and is not too daunting regarding switches. I hate to think what might happen if one were to give robocopy valid but incorrect arguments.

 

[LynniePad]

IIRC Microsoft has considered xcopy as being deprecated since the introduction of Windows Vista.

Robocopy replaced xcopy, but the list of powerful switches can be rather daunting.

Comparison of file attributes, and the efficient use of multi-threading makes Robocopy a very fast backup option. A full day’s work is saved (added to backup) in a matter of seconds.

Thank you Lynnie. I was going to ask what the non-deprecated, 'modern' equivalent of xcopy is. I'll have a look.

xcopy works for me though and is not too daunting regarding switches. I hate to think what might happen if one were to give robocopy valid but incorrect arguments.

Here’s what I do, using 500Gb Samsung external SSD…

Make a simple file called Quick.BAT … (Name of your choice)

Robocopy “e:\shared\current files” “f:\data\current files” /e /dcopy:t /MT:8

Quote marks cope with long path names and spaces. The switches are as follows…

/e -Copy all folders, including empty folders.
/dcopy:t -Keep time-stamp the same on copied files.
/MT:8 -Enable multi-threading on advanced CPUs, default 8 threads.

These options mean that deleted files on the data drive are NOT deleted from the backup.

Works best if folder tree doesn’t changed radically. We have 30G of data in three main folders.

Make a shortcut to the Quick.BAT file.

First run takes a while (of course), but follow ups are very quick.

 

[Fishrman]

I have always struggled with backing up my computer. For some reason I just don't understand the best way to do it so if something catastrophic happened I could get a different computer or hard drive and get most everything back to where it was before the problem.

It’s a really good idea to back up your data, and this is easy, provided that you have a well-designed folder system. I simply copy the data folder to external USB HDDs about once a month. In addition, I have a special Incremental/Cumulative backup process that I use as often as required to add new or altered files to an attached SSD backup disk. I use the built-in Robocopy program, which does its work in a matter of seconds.

I doubt I have a well designed folder system. Most of what I have are photos, emails and taxes.

Nothing fancy required.

There’s three users here, and each has a main folder under the general “Shared” folder on the server. It’s then each user’s responsibility to create sub-folders as required.

Backup is then just a matter of saving “Shared”. Did you also see mention of “Incremental” backup in my earlier post? Takes just seconds to add recent work to an external SSD, and is worth following up if you are interested.

I have separate storage for Photos, arranged by Project, Location or Occasion, also easily backed up.

• 16-35mm Sony tests
• Italy 2015 (with sub-folders)
• Sophie graduation

Our emails service uses the IMAP protocol, which means that the ISP acts as the server, and emails can be viewed on any local device (Computer, Mobile phone, iPad). Our practice is to save important emails as MS-Word documents, saving them to the appropriate user folder. Mundane emails are dealt with, and eventually flushed.

Note that there is mutual trust in our group, so no privacy issues.

An early experience with home computing was very instructive. A young family friend, who was supposedly computer literate, was showing me his new computer (PC 286), and I asked him where the files were kept. His response was to wave vaguely at the computer and say: “In there somewhere”. I knew then that there would be a benefit in being more specific!

Ya, I am probably to much like your young family friend..

 

[Fishrman]

Appears Macrium is the one most recommended here. I have been trying to use AOMEI Backupper but don't think I have it setup right and thinking I should just try and start all over. If I do a google search for best backup programs, Macrium is rarely mentioned in the top 10. If I deleted the AOMEI Backupper and then installed Macrium, would there be any issues with that? Should I also wipe my backup drive and start over?

 

[LynniePad]

Appears Macrium is the one most recommended here. I have been trying to use AOMEI Backupper but don't think I have it setup right and thinking I should just try and start all over. If I do a google search for best backup programs, Macrium is rarely mentioned in the top 10. If I deleted the AOMEI Backupper and then installed Macrium, would there be any issues with that? Should I also wipe my backup drive and start over?

Be cautious about wiping backup drives. Maybe wipe just one of them?

Why not just do a simple copy of your data as a first step?

How much data do you have, and do you need to backup all of it each time?

Macrium is supposed to be OK for imaging the OS drive, but I don’t do that.

 

[David Lal]

Macrium is supposed to be OK for imaging the OS drive, but I don’t do that.

I do - and it is superb, not least for making clones.

@Fishrman: I note you wrote backup drive (singular). I'd advise having at least two backup drives and alternate backups between them. A backup of the backup, so to speak. 5Tb USB drives are not particularly expensive.

 

[LynniePad]

Macrium is supposed to be OK for imaging the OS drive, but I don’t do that.

I do - and it is superb, not least for making clones.

As previously noted, I have several computers that can take over in the event of failure, and on the rare occasions that I’ve detected impending trouble (e.g. SMART), it’s been time for an upgrade, which takes place at a leisurely pace.

@Fishrman: I note you wrote backup drive (singular). I'd advise having at least two backup drives and alternate backups between them. A backup of the backup, so to speak. 5Tb USB drives are not particularly expensive.

I did kind of suggest that when I mentioned “one of your backup drives”. ;-)

Trekkie or devotee of Juvenal?

 

[Fishrman]

Appears Macrium is the one most recommended here. I have been trying to use AOMEI Backupper but don't think I have it setup right and thinking I should just try and start all over. If I do a google search for best backup programs, Macrium is rarely mentioned in the top 10. If I deleted the AOMEI Backupper and then installed Macrium, would there be any issues with that? Should I also wipe my backup drive and start over?

Be cautious about wiping backup drives. Maybe wipe just one of them?

Why not just do a simple copy of your data as a first step?

How much data do you have, and do you need to backup all of it each time?

Macrium is supposed to be OK for imaging the OS drive, but I don’t do that.

Not sure how much data I have. I think mostly photos along with tax info. Don't really use the computer for much more than lots of photos and yearly taxes. Bunches of emails.

 

[Fishrman]

Macrium is supposed to be OK for imaging the OS drive, but I don’t do that.

I do - and it is superb, not least for making clones.

@Fishrman: I note you wrote backup drive (singular). I'd advise having at least two backup drives and alternate backups between them. A backup of the backup, so to speak. 5Tb USB drives are not particularly expensive.

I got ya. Do you use Macrium exclusively? Would you recommend deleting the other backup program I have been trying to use and getting Macrium? I seem to have a bit of a mental block about it all.