Canon R5 Mark II - speculated in Q2/2023, specs

[MarshallG]

I don’t know where you’re getting the 8192x5464 figure, but it’s not in my R5.

Which figures are you getting in your R5?? 8192x5464 is the stills (max sensor) resolution.

I thought we were writing about 8K video. So we agree 8K video is 33 MP (UHD) or 35 MP (DCI), you can’t double that to fit well onto a 61mp sensor; you either scale a lot or crop a lot.

Besides, there’s no zebras in Still mode so who wants this new camera anyway?

 

[Bigger]

This is not a video camera. Why an LCD screen 'optimised for video'?

It can be a very good video camera in the right hands. So why not if it does not compromise stills shooting?

61Mp, if true, are vastly excessive for video. Landscape, architecture, product photography - yes, but with this many megapixels, the native resolution isn't a good fit for video. If it does 8K, it'll be in the crop mode. Sony A7RV does 8K and 4K in the crop mode.

Anyway I think these little discrepancies suggest the rumour is fake. I'll be very happy if it's not.

I think 8K standard video would probably be oversampled, since the R5ii is also supposedly getting focus breathing correction. Maybe that's why it needs dual digic processors.

I don't think oversampling is related to focus breathing correction. For corrections you need some small additional margins around the image to get some room for distortions. With oversampling you also capture more than you need but you use that to render a smaller scale image (e.g. you capture 6K but render 4K). Or you capture all 61Mp and then downsample to 8K (39Mp).

Right, and the oversampling ratio determines the final output magnification after cropping.

 

[Occams Razor]

Hm...

• New 61MP CMOS BSI sensor
• Dual DIGIC X processor
• 30 FPS electronic shutter with tracking / 12 FPS mechanical shutter
• Same 8-stop IBIS
• New High Resolution mode similar to pixel shift shooting found on Sony/Fujifilm
• 2x/4x/8x digital tele-convertor
• Same Dual Pixel CMOS AF II from EOS R3 and EOS R6 Mark II
• Internal 8K 60p video recording (8K RAW video spec to be confirmed)
• Internal 4K 30p/60p/120p video recording (all by oversampling)
• FHD 240p video recording
• Focus breathing correction for video
• New overheat prevention design similar to EOS R6 Mark II, at least 40min for 8K video, and over
• 60 min for 4K video
• Dual CFexpress type B card slot
• Standard HDMI port
• Dual USB-C port
• 9.44M-dot EVF
• New design of vari-angle LCD monitor optimized for video shooting
• Launch time: 2023 Q2

Not enough for me to upgrade from my R5.

 

[MarshallG]

Hm...

• New 61MP CMOS BSI sensor
• Dual DIGIC X processor
• 30 FPS electronic shutter with tracking / 12 FPS mechanical shutter
• Same 8-stop IBIS
• New High Resolution mode similar to pixel shift shooting found on Sony/Fujifilm
• 2x/4x/8x digital tele-convertor
• Same Dual Pixel CMOS AF II from EOS R3 and EOS R6 Mark II
• Internal 8K 60p video recording (8K RAW video spec to be confirmed)
• Internal 4K 30p/60p/120p video recording (all by oversampling)
• FHD 240p video recording
• Focus breathing correction for video
• New overheat prevention design similar to EOS R6 Mark II, at least 40min for 8K video, and over
• 60 min for 4K video
• Dual CFexpress type B card slot
• Standard HDMI port
• Dual USB-C port
• 9.44M-dot EVF
• New design of vari-angle LCD monitor optimized for video shooting
• Launch time: 2023 Q2

Not enough for me to upgrade from my R5.

Yeah, but what do they toss in zebra stripes for still shooting?

 

[Chesapeake Imagery]

All I want is for the R5MkII to have the pre-shoot feature which captures a second or two of images prior to fully depressing the shutter. Shooting perched birds trying to catch the take off is nearly impossible manually.

 

[Bigger]

Hm...

• New 61MP CMOS BSI sensor
• Dual DIGIC X processor
• 30 FPS electronic shutter with tracking / 12 FPS mechanical shutter
• Same 8-stop IBIS
• New High Resolution mode similar to pixel shift shooting found on Sony/Fujifilm
• 2x/4x/8x digital tele-convertor
• Same Dual Pixel CMOS AF II from EOS R3 and EOS R6 Mark II
• Internal 8K 60p video recording (8K RAW video spec to be confirmed)
• Internal 4K 30p/60p/120p video recording (all by oversampling)
• FHD 240p video recording
• Focus breathing correction for video
• New overheat prevention design similar to EOS R6 Mark II, at least 40min for 8K video, and over
• 60 min for 4K video
• Dual CFexpress type B card slot
• Standard HDMI port
• Dual USB-C port
• 9.44M-dot EVF
• New design of vari-angle LCD monitor optimized for video shooting
• Launch time: 2023 Q2

Not enough for me to upgrade from my R5.

Not even the Dual Pixel CMOS AF II?

 

[Tazz93]

Hm...

• New 61MP CMOS BSI sensor
• Dual DIGIC X processor
• 30 FPS electronic shutter with tracking / 12 FPS mechanical shutter
• Same 8-stop IBIS
• New High Resolution mode similar to pixel shift shooting found on Sony/Fujifilm
• 2x/4x/8x digital tele-convertor
• Same Dual Pixel CMOS AF II from EOS R3 and EOS R6 Mark II
• Internal 8K 60p video recording (8K RAW video spec to be confirmed)
• Internal 4K 30p/60p/120p video recording (all by oversampling)
• FHD 240p video recording
• Focus breathing correction for video
• New overheat prevention design similar to EOS R6 Mark II, at least 40min for 8K video, and over
• 60 min for 4K video
• Dual CFexpress type B card slot
• Standard HDMI port
• Dual USB-C port
• 9.44M-dot EVF
• New design of vari-angle LCD monitor optimized for video shooting
• Launch time: 2023 Q2

Sounds like the hot stuff.

https://canoncamerarumors.com/canon-eos-r5-mark-ii-rumored-specs-coming-in-q2-2023/

And Sony with their sad sensor tech still is like 3 years behind the R5 Mark I, with slow-mo 7 FPS and 1/10th of a second sensor readout.

And Nikon seems locked into those lagging Sony sensors as well, so there is little hope for stronger competition from there.

The R5-series really continues to lead their market segment by more than one step.

• New 61MP CMOS BSI sensor
• Not likely because Sony is 61

• Dual DIGIC X processor
• The 1DX series have dual processors not the 5 series so R1 specs

• Internal 8K 60p video recording (8K RAW video spec to be confirmed)
• This is probably R1 specs

• Internal 4K 30p/60p/120p video recording (all by oversampling)
• This is probably R1 specs

I 100% agree Canon is unlikely to bring out a 61 MP sensor. Canon just doesn't chase other companies' numbers and specs. So, if there is an increase, expect it to be more inline with the camera's general audience, not other cameras on the market. And honestly, I don't think Canon views the R5 as their "High Res" model. So I imagine the resolution has a high potential to stay in the 45 MP range.

The point on the dual Digic setup I partially agree with you. Personally, I don't expect it to have one, like you mentioned, but for different reasons. In the past, Canon has used dual Digic setups in the 5DS and 5DSr, but I don't think it would be necessary in this application. I just don't see a need to increase the processing. Dual Digic would be an aid to oversampling 60+MP down to the various 8K and 4K resolutions, but that's it. 8K 60 is very likely possible on the current hardware (as on the R5C), if not for the overheating. The improved 9.44M dot can likely use the extra processing, but I think they can get around needing it. Of course the oversampled 4K 120p would need a little extra juice but honestly, I don't see that happening at all.

As for the rumor in general... its a bag of mixed mess. Some are very obvious (and could be done in firmware) but others seem like pipe dreams (Dual CFx B's, and Dual Digic) at the current price. Changing to a BSI sensor is going to cost a significant amount of money (I'd guess $150-200 per unit), so I feel like they'd have to cut features to save money for that. Stuff like Dual USB-C AND a full size HDMI port is another pipe dream. Together they just don't make sense. Canon can't package the current camera to fit one or the other, now we're expecting to see both? Just more proof, IMO, that these come from someone throwing darts at a spec wall.

The good news, a lot of this is likely good to go, but some of it is a little too far fetched. Think of the R6 II and apply what they did there to this rumor and see what fits.

--
Mike Jackson - Wildlife Photography Enthusiast
https://www.instagram.com/tpcimagery/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mj_flickr/

 

[Alastair Norcross]

Why is everyone discussing a rumor that was posted on November 25th, two and a half months ago?

 

[janez]

I don’t know where you’re getting the 8192x5464 figure, but it’s not in my R5.

Which figures are you getting in your R5?? 8192x5464 is the stills (max sensor) resolution.

I thought we were writing about 8K video. So we agree 8K video is 33 MP (UHD) or 35 MP (DCI), you can’t double that to fit well onto a 61mp sensor; you either scale a lot or crop a lot.

Besides, there’s no zebras in Still mode so who wants this new camera anyway?

R5 horizontal resolution is 8192 pixels. That is exactly what is needed for 8K DCI. There is no room for EIS here. New 61 Mp sensor will have horizontal resolution 9504 pixels. That means 13.8% of them are wasted if oversampling is not implemented. That is not huge, just about right for EIS.

 

[Bigger]

The point on the dual Digic setup I partially agree with you. Personally, I don't expect it to have one, like you mentioned, but for different reasons. In the past, Canon has used dual Digic setups in the 5DS and 5DSr, but I don't think it would be necessary in this application. I just don't see a need to increase the processing. Dual Digic would be an aid to oversampling 60+MP down to the various 8K and 4K resolutions, but that's it. 8K 60 is very likely possible on the current hardware (as on the R5C), if not for the overheating.

And that's the reason for dual processors. Power consumption would vary linearly with clock speed at the same voltage, but the need for increased voltage to get reliable operation at higher clock speed makes it more quadratic. So two digic processors doing the same work at half the clock speed each would only use about half the power, and would spread that power dissipation out over twice as much contact area.

Canon obviously hit the power dissipation wall with the R5, and only made incremental improvement in the R5c. The dual processor arrangement would make the most sense to get added computing power for and/or for 8k120 raw and/or down sampled 8k to allow focus breathing correction.

 

[MarshallG]

I don’t know where you’re getting the 8192x5464 figure, but it’s not in my R5.

Which figures are you getting in your R5?? 8192x5464 is the stills (max sensor) resolution.

I thought we were writing about 8K video. So we agree 8K video is 33 MP (UHD) or 35 MP (DCI), you can’t double that to fit well onto a 61mp sensor; you either scale a lot or crop a lot.

Besides, there’s no zebras in Still mode so who wants this new camera anyway?

R5 horizontal resolution is 8192 pixels. That is exactly what is needed for 8K DCI. There is no room for EIS here. New 61 Mp sensor will have horizontal resolution 9504 pixels. That means 13.8% of them are wasted if oversampling is not implemented. That is not huge, just about right for EIS.

I can’t tell whether you’re agreeing or disagreeing with me about the rumored specifications of the rumored camera.

 

[CWaterston]

Rumors?

I'll wait for reality, thanks.

 

[janez]

Besides, there’s no zebras in Still mode so who wants this new camera anyway?

I don't know where are you getting this info from? I am sure that it will be possible to do zebras. I was able to make pictures of them in a zoo even with my 300D.

 

[MarshallG]

Besides, there’s no zebras in Still mode so who wants this new camera anyway?

I don't know where are you getting this info from? I am sure that it will be possible to do zebras. I was able to make pictures of them in a zoo even with my 300D.

What kind of cameras do pirates use?

EOS AAARRRR’s!

 

[Light Pilgrim]

since when do we claim that someone is leading the space based on a rumored product that doesnt exist?

Hm...

• New 61MP CMOS BSI sensor
• Dual DIGIC X processor
• 30 FPS electronic shutter with tracking / 12 FPS mechanical shutter
• Same 8-stop IBIS
• New High Resolution mode similar to pixel shift shooting found on Sony/Fujifilm
• 2x/4x/8x digital tele-convertor
• Same Dual Pixel CMOS AF II from EOS R3 and EOS R6 Mark II
• Internal 8K 60p video recording (8K RAW video spec to be confirmed)
• Internal 4K 30p/60p/120p video recording (all by oversampling)
• FHD 240p video recording
• Focus breathing correction for video
• New overheat prevention design similar to EOS R6 Mark II, at least 40min for 8K video, and over
• 60 min for 4K video
• Dual CFexpress type B card slot
• Standard HDMI port
• Dual USB-C port
• 9.44M-dot EVF
• New design of vari-angle LCD monitor optimized for video shooting
• Launch time: 2023 Q2

Sounds like the hot stuff.

https://canoncamerarumors.com/canon-eos-r5-mark-ii-rumored-specs-coming-in-q2-2023/

And Sony with their sad sensor tech still is like 3 years behind the R5 Mark I, with slow-mo 7 FPS and 1/10th of a second sensor readout.

And Nikon seems locked into those lagging Sony sensors as well, so there is little hope for stronger competition from there.

The R5-series really continues to lead their market segment by more than one step.

 

[janez]

since when do we claim that someone is leading the space based on a rumored product that doesnt exist?

There are no rumors that Sony will offer internal 8K 60p and dual CFXB anytime soon. That makes Canon a clear winner.

 

[Tazz93]

The point on the dual Digic setup I partially agree with you. Personally, I don't expect it to have one, like you mentioned, but for different reasons. In the past, Canon has used dual Digic setups in the 5DS and 5DSr, but I don't think it would be necessary in this application. I just don't see a need to increase the processing. Dual Digic would be an aid to oversampling 60+MP down to the various 8K and 4K resolutions, but that's it. 8K 60 is very likely possible on the current hardware (as on the R5C), if not for the overheating.

And that's the reason for dual processors. Power consumption would vary linearly with clock speed at the same voltage, but the need for increased voltage to get reliable operation at higher clock speed makes it more quadratic. So two digic processors doing the same work at half the clock speed each would only use about half the power, and would spread that power dissipation out over twice as much contact area.

Canon obviously hit the power dissipation wall with the R5, and only made incremental improvement in the R5c. The dual processor arrangement would make the most sense to get added computing power for and/or for 8k120 raw and/or down sampled 8k to allow focus breathing correction.

I understand your point, but still disagree. A dual setup could help with thermals, but that isn't a guarantee. Aside from the additional heat soak in the camera, (basically 2 heaters at 70C instead of 1 at 110C), they would have more head room to do other tasks, so its more likely they would use some of that headroom and keep pushing the processors to a higher duty. Also note, I think the biggest factor in temps come from the speed of the processor (more power is needed with faster clock speeds), so if they were to reap the benefits of lower temps, it would require a significantly slower clock speeds. Theoretically, you could have two cores running at 1Ghz instead of 1 at 2Ghz. That would definitely hurt performance in a number of areas. IMO, they would be better off creating a faster more efficient premium processor.

However, that isn't my biggest contention. Looking at the board layout there simply isn't a ton of room to add a second processor without significantly changing the architecture, layout, and potentially the form factor. Significant changes costs money, which means the consumers pay for it or they strip the camera down. But ultimately, IMO, it sounds very counter productive to add more expensive hardware to mitigate heat when a properly designed set of heat sinks would do the trick.

 

[Occams Razor]

Not even the Dual Pixel CMOS AF II?

I am very happy with the R5 AF system - at least for what I shoot which is some action but mostly still subjects and landscapes. Of course as more specifics come out, I could change my position.

 

[Tazz93]

since when do we claim that someone is leading the space based on a rumored product that doesnt exist?

I think the claim was based on the current 2.5 year old R5 and the new Sony A7r5. Definitely disputable, but neither one is significantly up on the other. IMO, its a reasonable claim, but I'd say its a close call with the edge going to the A7r5 if speed isn't needed. That said, its not a terribly good sign for the A7r5 (nosing out a old camera with a proverbial photo finish).

 

[Occams Razor]

Yeah, but what do they toss in zebra stripes for still shooting?

Ultimately, I'll wait for the final specs and then make a decision but the rumored specs do not initially excite me.