Used Canon batteries from MPB?

[StrugglingforLight]

I noticed mpb has a few used Canon LP-E12 Batteries for $23 and under. Some are listed in "like new" condition. Is that regarding the cosmetic condition or the capacity remaining? Do they even test that? Also what does the 6 month warranty cover for a battery?

Has anyone purchased a battery from them, how was it?

 

[KevinRA]

I noticed mpb has a few used Canon LP-E12 Batteries for $23 and under. Some are listed in "like new" condition. Is that regarding the cosmetic condition or the capacity remaining? Do they even test that? Also what does the 6 month warranty cover for a battery?

Has anyone purchased a battery from them, how was it?

I asked the question re LP E6NH's - cosmetic primarily but these would also show 2 or 3 bars recharge performance. Only problem in UK is a real hassle to send back legally due to lithium battery transport rules.

maybe worth emailing them?

 

[nnowak]

I noticed mpb has a few used Canon LP-E12 Batteries for $23 and under. Some are listed in "like new" condition. Is that regarding the cosmetic condition or the capacity remaining? Do they even test that? Also what does the 6 month warranty cover for a battery?

Has anyone purchased a battery from them, how was it?

I would never pay good money for unknown quality used batteries. Especially when you can get 2 new third party parties for less than the price of a single used battery. It is just too difficult to know what kind of treatment that battery has had. For example, you could have a battery that was only used in the camera once, but spent a year sitting on the charger constantly getting topped up to 100%. The battery would look like new with barely a mark on the contacts, but performance would be dramatically degraded.

If MPB had the equipment to do a full load test on each battery and reported a % for remaining life, then they might be worth considering. As it is, you are buying a complete unknown.

 

[Greg Edwards]

I noticed mpb has a few used Canon LP-E12 Batteries for $23 and under. Some are listed in "like new" condition. Is that regarding the cosmetic condition or the capacity remaining? Do they even test that? Also what does the 6 month warranty cover for a battery?

Has anyone purchased a battery from them, how was it?

I would never pay good money for unknown quality used batteries. Especially when you can get 2 new third party parties for less than the price of a single used battery. It is just too difficult to know what kind of treatment that battery has had. For example, you could have a battery that was only used in the camera once, but spent a year sitting on the charger constantly getting topped up to 100%. The battery would look like new with barely a mark on the contacts, but performance would be dramatically degraded.

If MPB had the equipment to do a full load test on each battery and reported a % for remaining life, then they might be worth considering. As it is, you are buying a complete unknown.

On the other hand, you really need to do your research if you're looking at cheaper third party batteries (and chargers). There's so many dodgy brands around, even with fake CE logos on them.

 

[Greg Edwards]

Regarding their 6 month warranty;

All used kit from MPB comes with a free six-month warranty and a 14-day returns period, which begins the day you receive your order. The warranty covers any faults that may occur within normal use and under normal storage conditions and doesn't include accidental damage or misuse. Find out more in our terms and conditions.

 

[nnowak]

I noticed mpb has a few used Canon LP-E12 Batteries for $23 and under. Some are listed in "like new" condition. Is that regarding the cosmetic condition or the capacity remaining? Do they even test that? Also what does the 6 month warranty cover for a battery?

Has anyone purchased a battery from them, how was it?

I would never pay good money for unknown quality used batteries. Especially when you can get 2 new third party parties for less than the price of a single used battery. It is just too difficult to know what kind of treatment that battery has had. For example, you could have a battery that was only used in the camera once, but spent a year sitting on the charger constantly getting topped up to 100%. The battery would look like new with barely a mark on the contacts, but performance would be dramatically degraded.

If MPB had the equipment to do a full load test on each battery and reported a % for remaining life, then they might be worth considering. As it is, you are buying a complete unknown.

On the other hand, you really need to do your research if you're looking at cheaper third party batteries (and chargers). There's so many dodgy brands around, even with fake CE logos on them.

While there might be some brands of questionable quality, at least it is something you can research. If a third party battery has hundreds of good reviews on Amazon, spanning multiple years, it is likely a safe choice. An untested used battery is a complete unknown. The used battery may be nearly perfect and last for years, or it may swell up the day after the 6 month warranty expires. It is a complete lottery.

 

[trungtran]

I would rather buy new third party batteries, than used OEM batteries.

For $23, it doesn't seem that cheap at all. You don't know how many cycles it has gone through.

I have purchased Kastar batteries for a number of my cameras and they all work and charge fine for a fraction of OEM cost.

Kastar Battery for Canon LP-E12

Not all third party batteries are good.

 

[ScentedOrange]

I have had decent luck with BM Premium brand batteries, in fact they last longer than my current OEM batteries. I dont think its worth buying used batteries when 3rd party ones are so cheap and seem to work fine for a lot of people.

 

[R2D2]

I noticed mpb has a few used Canon LP-E12 Batteries for $23 and under. Some are listed in "like new" condition. Is that regarding the cosmetic condition or the capacity remaining? Do they even test that? Also what does the 6 month warranty cover for a battery?

Has anyone purchased a battery from them, how was it?

I would never pay good money for unknown quality used batteries.

Some people obviously would. In fact the batteries that come with used cameras would all be classified thus. ;-)

Especially when you can get 2 new third party parties for less than the price of a single used battery.

3rd party can be a crapshoot too, obviously.

OEM has always been my preference, but I have a lot of 3rd party to use as backups.

It is just too difficult to know what kind of treatment that battery has had.

Or in the case of 3rd party, what the manufacturing practices were, how/where the lithium was sourced, and what the capacity and lifespan will be. Most folks can only buy based on brand recognition, reviews, and good/bad reports.

For example, you could have a battery that was only used in the camera once, but spent a year sitting on the charger constantly getting topped up to 100%. The battery would look like new with barely a mark on the contacts, but performance would be dramatically degraded.

This is entirely false, and does not apply to these lithium ion chargers at all (like it would to older technologies such as NiCad and even NiMH). Simple Li-ion battery chargers for safety’s sake do not have a float or “trickle” charging function. They shut off charging current entirely when peak voltage is reached. If this is not done, then lithium batteries will over-charge, burst, and/or ignite. Bad bad bad.

Instead, after the Li-ion battery has self-discharged over the course of several months down to the trigger voltage of the Canon charger, it’ll kick on again for a short while to bring the battery to full charge, and then shut off again.

This would not damage the battery any more than any normal charge/discharge cycles would during that time. In fact fewer cycles would likely occur!

I’d recommend everyone spend some time at the Battery University website. They’re an excellent battery info resource, esp important for the newer chemistries nowadays…

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-409-charging-lithium-ion

If MPB had the equipment to do a full load test on each battery and reported a % for remaining life, then they might be worth considering. As it is, you are buying a complete unknown.

But you don’t know if they do or they don’t! ;-) It’d be good instead to get a definitive answer from them (and from Canon Refurb for that matter). A good job for you? :-D

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

 

[m100]

I noticed mpb has a few used Canon LP-E12 Batteries for $23 and under. Some are listed in "like new" condition. Is that regarding the cosmetic condition or the capacity remaining? Do they even test that? Also what does the 6 month warranty cover for a battery?

Has anyone purchased a battery from them, how was it?

I would never pay good money for unknown quality used batteries.

Some people obviously would. In fact the batteries that come with used cameras would all be classified thus. ;-)

Especially when you can get 2 new third party parties for less than the price of a single used battery.

3rd party can be a crapshoot too, obviously.

OEM has always been my preference, but I have a lot of 3rd party to use as backups.

It is just too difficult to know what kind of treatment that battery has had.

Or in the case of 3rd party, what the manufacturing practices were, how/where the lithium was sourced, and what the capacity and lifespan will be. Most folks can only buy based on brand recognition, reviews, and good/bad reports.

For example, you could have a battery that was only used in the camera once, but spent a year sitting on the charger constantly getting topped up to 100%. The battery would look like new with barely a mark on the contacts, but performance would be dramatically degraded.

This is entirely false, and does not apply to these lithium ion chargers at all (like it would to older technologies such as NiCad and even NiMH). Simple Li-ion battery chargers for safety’s sake do not have a float or “trickle” charging function. They shut off charging current entirely when peak voltage is reached. If this is not done, then lithium batteries will over-charge, burst, and/or ignite. Bad bad bad.

Instead, after the Li-ion battery has self-discharged over the course of several months down to the trigger voltage of the Canon charger, it’ll kick on again for a short while to bring the battery to full charge, and then shut off again.

This would not damage the battery any more than any normal charge/discharge cycles would during that time. In fact fewer cycles would likely occur!

I’d recommend everyone spend some time at the Battery University website. They’re an excellent battery info resource, esp important for the newer chemistries nowadays…

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-409-charging-lithium-ion

If MPB had the equipment to do a full load test on each battery and reported a % for remaining life, then they might be worth considering. As it is, you are buying a complete unknown.

But you don’t know if they do or they don’t! ;-) It’d be good instead to get a definitive answer from them (and from Canon Refurb for that matter). A good job for you? :-D

R2

I have these Watson battery charger plates with 2 wires soldered to the bottom and I can test charge and test discharge batteries with a hobby charger.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=watson plate&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ps

https://hyperion-world.com/en/p1005438-hp-eos0720isduo3-19129

--
Dr. says listen to this every morning.

 

[nnowak]

I noticed mpb has a few used Canon LP-E12 Batteries for $23 and under. Some are listed in "like new" condition. Is that regarding the cosmetic condition or the capacity remaining? Do they even test that? Also what does the 6 month warranty cover for a battery?

Has anyone purchased a battery from them, how was it?

I would never pay good money for unknown quality used batteries.

Some people obviously would. In fact the batteries that come with used cameras would all be classified thus. ;-)

Most people that buy used cameras view the included batteries as "freebies". While they are a nice inclusions with the purchase of a camera, the used batteries are certainly not the driving factor of the purchase. People's quality expectations for a battery included with a camera are far lower than when explicitly purchasing just a battery.

Especially when you can get 2 new third party parties for less than the price of a single used battery.

3rd party can be a crapshoot too, obviously.

OEM has always been my preference, but I have a lot of 3rd party to use as backups.

It is just too difficult to know what kind of treatment that battery has had.

Or in the case of 3rd party, what the manufacturing practices were, how/where the lithium was sourced, and what the capacity and lifespan will be. Most folks can only buy based on brand recognition, reviews, and good/bad reports.

Most of those are also unknown for OEM batteries.

For example, you could have a battery that was only used in the camera once, but spent a year sitting on the charger constantly getting topped up to 100%. The battery would look like new with barely a mark on the contacts, but performance would be dramatically degraded.

This is entirely false, and does not apply to these lithium ion chargers at all (like it would to older technologies such as NiCad and even NiMH). Simple Li-ion battery chargers for safety’s sake do not have a float or “trickle” charging function. They shut off charging current entirely when peak voltage is reached. If this is not done, then lithium batteries will over-charge, burst, and/or ignite. Bad bad bad.

Reread what I wrote. Nowhere did I suggest that lithium batteries would be trickled charged.

Instead, after the Li-ion battery has self-discharged over the course of several months down to the trigger voltage of the Canon charger, it’ll kick on again for a short while to bring the battery to full charge, and then shut off again.

This would not damage the battery any more than any normal charge/discharge cycles would during that time. In fact fewer cycles would likely occur!

You are wrong is in your suggestion that the battery can sit on the charger for several months before it will be topped up again. The charger will kick in to top up the battery much sooner than that. You're roughly off by a factor of ten.

Getting the last few percentage of charge into a lithium battery is one of the hardest things for a lithium battery. Charging from 98% to 100% does similar wear and tear to charging from 25% to 100%

I’d recommend everyone spend some time at the Battery University website. They’re an excellent battery info resource, esp important for the newer chemistries nowadays…

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-409-charging-lithium-ion

If MPB had the equipment to do a full load test on each battery and reported a % for remaining life, then they might be worth considering. As it is, you are buying a complete unknown.

But you don’t know if they do or they don’t! ;-) It’d be good instead to get a definitive answer from them (and from Canon Refurb for that matter). A good job for you? :-D

R2

Whether or not MPB tests their used batteries is irrelevant if they do not post the test results for each battery, or at least publish a minimum threshold that every battery must attain. A battery from MPB could 10 years old with a 50% capacity or a year old with 98% capacity. There is no way of knowing aside from purchasing the battery and doing your own testing

 

[R2D2]

I noticed mpb has a few used Canon LP-E12 Batteries for $23 and under. Some are listed in "like new" condition. Is that regarding the cosmetic condition or the capacity remaining? Do they even test that? Also what does the 6 month warranty cover for a battery?

Has anyone purchased a battery from them, how was it?

I would never pay good money for unknown quality used batteries.

Some people obviously would. In fact the batteries that come with used cameras would all be classified thus. ;-)

Most people that buy used cameras view the included batteries as "freebies". While they are a nice inclusions with the purchase of a camera, the used batteries are certainly not the driving factor of the purchase. People's quality expectations for a battery included with a camera are far lower than when explicitly purchasing just a battery.

The battery is part of the purchase! I would expect the battery to be in good working order unless it was specified otherwise (just as I would expect the camera to be, or the lens or the viewfinder). And especially if purchased from a store!

Especially when you can get 2 new third party parties for less than the price of a single used battery.

3rd party can be a crapshoot too, obviously.

OEM has always been my preference, but I have a lot of 3rd party to use as backups.

It is just too difficult to know what kind of treatment that battery has had.

Or in the case of 3rd party, what the manufacturing practices were, how/where the lithium was sourced, and what the capacity and lifespan will be. Most folks can only buy based on brand recognition, reviews, and good/bad reports.

Most of those are also unknown for OEM batteries.

Except expectations for OEM batteries are Very High. And with good reason!

For example, you could have a battery that was only used in the camera once, but spent a year sitting on the charger constantly getting topped up to 100%. The battery would look like new with barely a mark on the contacts, but performance would be dramatically degraded.

This is entirely false, and does not apply to these lithium ion chargers at all (like it would to older technologies such as NiCad and even NiMH). Simple Li-ion battery chargers for safety’s sake do not have a float or “trickle” charging function. They shut off charging current entirely when peak voltage is reached. If this is not done, then lithium batteries will over-charge, burst, and/or ignite. Bad bad bad.

Reread what I wrote. Nowhere did I suggest that lithium batteries would be trickled charged.

LOL, you're trying to backtrack from what you posted earlier.

You used the word "CONSTANTLY." That's how the old trickle chargers work. THAT is what would cause the "dramatically degraded" performance that you wrote about. If not worse effects! Bad bad bad.

But that's not how these Canon Li-ion chargers work. Instead they have a "topping charge" that triggers at typically 3.5 volts, and it takes a looooong time for these batteries to self-discharge to that level!

Instead, after the Li-ion battery has self-discharged over the course of several months down to the trigger voltage of the Canon charger, it’ll kick on again for a short while to bring the battery to full charge, and then shut off again.

This would not damage the battery any more than any normal charge/discharge cycles would during that time. In fact fewer cycles would likely occur!

You are wrong is in your suggestion that the battery can sit on the charger for several months before it will be topped up again.

The self-discharge rate for these batteries is Very Low. You’re still thinking in terms of old tech. Heck, I have Li-ion battery packs that have been sitting for over a year unused and still measure over 3.7 volts per cell!

The charger will kick in to top up the battery much sooner than that. You're roughly off by a factor of ten.

Definitely not. You're just pulling numbers out of thin air (I sanitized this last bit ;-) ).

Getting the last few percentage of charge into a lithium battery is one of the hardest things for a lithium battery. Charging from 98% to 100% does similar wear and tear to charging from 25% to 100%

Yet Canon's batteries are still rated at 500 charge cycles even with this charging regimen. Give it up, your argument simply holds no water.

I’d recommend everyone spend some time at the Battery University website. They’re an excellent battery info resource, esp important for the newer chemistries nowadays…

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-409-charging-lithium-ion

If MPB had the equipment to do a full load test on each battery and reported a % for remaining life, then they might be worth considering. As it is, you are buying a complete unknown.

But you don’t know if they do or they don’t! ;-) It’d be good instead to get a definitive answer from them (and from Canon Refurb for that matter). A good job for you? :-D

R2

Whether or not MPB tests their used batteries is irrelevant if they do not post the test results for each battery, or at least publish a minimum threshold that every battery must attain. A battery from MPB could 10 years old with a 50% capacity or a year old with 98% capacity. There is no way of knowing aside from purchasing the battery and doing your own testing

A minimum threshold would be nice. It's why I thought you should research that (maybe after boning up on Li-ion technology?). ;-)

I for one have never had an issue with my camera batteries. I treat them well, and they treat me well back. Amazing things actually.

R2

 

[m100]

I noticed mpb has a few used Canon LP-E12 Batteries for $23 and under. Some are listed in "like new" condition. Is that regarding the cosmetic condition or the capacity remaining? Do they even test that? Also what does the 6 month warranty cover for a battery?

Has anyone purchased a battery from them, how was it?

Yes. Just fine.

And almost every lens in my gear list came from MPB.

I am impressed with their ability to deliver nice lenses !

 

[nnowak]

For example, you could have a battery that was only used in the camera once, but spent a year sitting on the charger constantly getting topped up to 100%. The battery would look like new with barely a mark on the contacts, but performance would be dramatically degraded.

This is entirely false, and does not apply to these lithium ion chargers at all (like it would to older technologies such as NiCad and even NiMH). Simple Li-ion battery chargers for safety’s sake do not have a float or “trickle” charging function. They shut off charging current entirely when peak voltage is reached. If this is not done, then lithium batteries will over-charge, burst, and/or ignite. Bad bad bad.

Reread what I wrote. Nowhere did I suggest that lithium batteries would be trickled charged.

LOL, you're trying to backtrack from what you posted earlier.

So, in your mind, "getting topped off" means trickle charging, but your use of "topping charge" means something completely different. I am not backtracking, you are just trying to misconstrue my words because you want to be argumentative.

You used the word "CONSTANTLY." That's how the old trickle chargers work. THAT is what would cause the "dramatically degraded" performance that you wrote about. If not worse effects! Bad bad bad.

No, I used the word "constantly" because the charger won't just top up the battery one time, it will do it over and over whenever the charge drops a bit.

But that's not how these Canon Li-ion chargers work. Instead they have a "topping charge" that triggers at typically 3.5 volts, and it takes a looooong time for these batteries to self-discharge to that level!

A typical lithium battery at 3.5 volts would be beyond 50% discharged. The charger will kick in long before the battery every gets that low.

Instead, after the Li-ion battery has self-discharged over the course of several months down to the trigger voltage of the Canon charger, it’ll kick on again for a short while to bring the battery to full charge, and then shut off again.

This would not damage the battery any more than any normal charge/discharge cycles would during that time. In fact fewer cycles would likely occur!

You are wrong is in your suggestion that the battery can sit on the charger for several months before it will be topped up again.

The self-discharge rate for these batteries is Very Low. You’re still thinking in terms of old tech. Heck, I have Li-ion battery packs that have been sitting for over a year unused and still measure over 3.7 volts per cell!

I don't know what battery your are referring to, but all of my Canon batteries are roughly double that voltage. If you have a LP-E12 sitting at 3.7 volts, you killed that battery.

I am guessing you are talking about primary cells, which will behave differently from a camera battery with multiple cells connected to a protection circuit with a built-in balance function. Regardless, judging the charges state of a lithium cell based on a measured voltage is relatively meaningless due to the flat voltage curve of a lithium cell. A measurement of 3.7 volts could be anywhere from 40% capacity to 90% capacity. Only at the extreme ends of charge/discharge will a voltage measurement be remotely meaningful.

I just checked a genuine Canon LP-E12 I have sitting around and it was at 8.0 volts (4.0 volts per cell). After using it in the camera for a few minutes it dropped to 7.6 volts (3.8 volts per cell). The genuine Canon charger took 40 minutes to bring is back up to 8.2 volts (4.1 volts per cell).

The charger will kick in to top up the battery much sooner than that. You're roughly off by a factor of ten.

Definitely not. You're just pulling numbers out of thin air (I sanitized this last bit ;-) ).

Like your 3.5 volt number?

Getting the last few percentage of charge into a lithium battery is one of the hardest things for a lithium battery. Charging from 98% to 100% does similar wear and tear to charging from 25% to 100%

Yet Canon's batteries are still rated at 500 charge cycles even with this charging regimen. Give it up, your argument simply holds no water.

I’d recommend everyone spend some time at the Battery University website. They’re an excellent battery info resource, esp important for the newer chemistries nowadays…

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-409-charging-lithium-ion

If MPB had the equipment to do a full load test on each battery and reported a % for remaining life, then they might be worth considering. As it is, you are buying a complete unknown.

But you don’t know if they do or they don’t! ;-) It’d be good instead to get a definitive answer from them (and from Canon Refurb for that matter). A good job for you? :-D

R2

Whether or not MPB tests their used batteries is irrelevant if they do not post the test results for each battery, or at least publish a minimum threshold that every battery must attain. A battery from MPB could 10 years old with a 50% capacity or a year old with 98% capacity. There is no way of knowing aside from purchasing the battery and doing your own testing

A minimum threshold would be nice. It's why I thought you should research that (maybe after boning up on Li-ion technology?). ;-)

Can't research something that does not exist. I went to MPB's page for these used batteries and there is nothing posted. Feel free to do your own research.

I for one have never had an issue with my camera batteries. I treat them well, and they treat me well back. Amazing things actually.

And I am guessing none of these were used batteries purchased from MPB.

R2

I just did a very quick google search and one of the first hits was the Nikon D850 manual with the following warning:

"Continuing to charge the battery after it is fully charged can impair battery performance."

I am sure if I spent more time searching, I could find a similar warning in a Canon manual.

 

[R2D2]

For example, you could have a battery that was only used in the camera once, but spent a year sitting on the charger constantly getting topped up to 100%. The battery would look like new with barely a mark on the contacts, but performance would be dramatically degraded.

This is entirely false, and does not apply to these lithium ion chargers at all (like it would to older technologies such as NiCad and even NiMH). Simple Li-ion battery chargers for safety’s sake do not have a float or “trickle” charging function. They shut off charging current entirely when peak voltage is reached. If this is not done, then lithium batteries will over-charge, burst, and/or ignite. Bad bad bad.

Reread what I wrote. Nowhere did I suggest that lithium batteries would be trickled charged.

LOL, you're trying to backtrack from what you posted earlier.

So, in your mind, "getting topped off" means trickle charging, but your use of "topping charge" means something completely different. I am not backtracking, you are just trying to misconstrue my words because you want to be argumentative.

No. What YOU wrote earlier was the very definition of “trickle charging.” Go re-read it.

You went and created a cause and effect relationship: “Constant topping up” resulting in “Dramatically degraded performance”.

I’m simply correcting this bad information. It’s absolutely not how these Li-ion battery chargers work. “Constant topping up would be dangerous!

You used the word "CONSTANTLY." That's how the old trickle chargers work. THAT is what would cause the "dramatically degraded" performance that you wrote about. If not worse effects! Bad bad bad.

No, I used the word "constantly" because the charger won't just top up the battery one time, it will do it over and over whenever the charge drops a bit.

Perhaps english isn’t your native language. I’ll help… Webster defines “constantly” as [Continuously over a period of time, Always]. You’re now backpedaling to what would be referred to as “intermittently!” In any event, a (very) intermittent topping charge would not dramatically degrade performance! You are wrong on both these counts.

But that's not how these Canon Li-ion chargers work. Instead they have a "topping charge" that triggers at typically 3.5 volts, and it takes a looooong time for these batteries to self-discharge to that level!

A typical lithium battery at 3.5 volts would be beyond 50% discharged. The charger will kick in long before the battery every gets that low.

Instead, after the Li-ion battery has self-discharged over the course of several months down to the trigger voltage of the Canon charger, it’ll kick on again for a short while to bring the battery to full charge, and then shut off again.

This would not damage the battery any more than any normal charge/discharge cycles would during that time. In fact fewer cycles would likely occur!

You are wrong is in your suggestion that the battery can sit on the charger for several months before it will be topped up again.

The self-discharge rate for these batteries is Very Low. You’re still thinking in terms of old tech. Heck, I have Li-ion battery packs that have been sitting for over a year unused and still measure over 3.7 volts per cell!

I don't know what battery your are referring to, but all of my Canon batteries are roughly double that voltage. If you have a LP-E12 sitting at 3.7 volts, you killed that battery.

I am guessing you are talking about primary cells, which will behave differently from a camera battery with multiple cells connected to a protection circuit with a built-in balance function. Regardless, judging the charges state of a lithium cell based on a measured voltage is relatively meaningless due to the flat voltage curve of a lithium cell. A measurement of 3.7 volts could be anywhere from 40% capacity to 90% capacity. Only at the extreme ends of charge/discharge will a voltage measurement be remotely meaningful.

I just checked a genuine Canon LP-E12 I have sitting around and it was at 8.0 volts (4.0 volts per cell). After using it in the camera for a few minutes it dropped to 7.6 volts (3.8 volts per cell). The genuine Canon charger took 40 minutes to bring is back up to 8.2 volts (4.1 volts per cell).

The charger will kick in to top up the battery much sooner than that. You're roughly off by a factor of ten.

Definitely not. You're just pulling numbers out of thin air (I sanitized this last bit ;-) ).

Like your 3.5 volt number?

Getting the last few percentage of charge into a lithium battery is one of the hardest things for a lithium battery. Charging from 98% to 100% does similar wear and tear to charging from 25% to 100%

Yet Canon's batteries are still rated at 500 charge cycles even with this charging regimen. Give it up, your argument simply holds no water.

I’d recommend everyone spend some time at the Battery University website. They’re an excellent battery info resource, esp important for the newer chemistries nowadays…

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-409-charging-lithium-ion

If MPB had the equipment to do a full load test on each battery and reported a % for remaining life, then they might be worth considering. As it is, you are buying a complete unknown.

But you don’t know if they do or they don’t! ;-) It’d be good instead to get a definitive answer from them (and from Canon Refurb for that matter). A good job for you? :-D

R2

Whether or not MPB tests their used batteries is irrelevant if they do not post the test results for each battery, or at least publish a minimum threshold that every battery must attain. A battery from MPB could 10 years old with a 50% capacity or a year old with 98% capacity. There is no way of knowing aside from purchasing the battery and doing your own testing

A minimum threshold would be nice. It's why I thought you should research that (maybe after boning up on Li-ion technology?). ;-)

Can't research something that does not exist. I went to MPB's page for these used batteries and there is nothing posted. Feel free to do your own research.

I for one have never had an issue with my camera batteries. I treat them well, and they treat me well back. Amazing things actually.

And I am guessing none of these were used batteries purchased from MPB.

R2

I just did a very quick google search and one of the first hits was the Nikon D850 manual with the following warning:

"Continuing to charge the battery after it is fully charged can impair battery performance."

I am sure if I spent more time searching, I could find a similar warning in a Canon manual.

It’s very obvious your battery knowledge is lacking. I already gave you the best tool (link to B.U. above) to further your knowledge. Li-ion chemistry isn’t something that you want to get wrong. Go bone up on it (or at least quit spreading false information).

R2

 

[geru]

Reading through this thread there are warnings regarding non OEM batteries and while I understand my experience has been very different. The only batteries I've had problems with were OEM batteries and both were Canon.

I've bought non OEM batteries for every camera I've owned beginning in 2007 and never had a single problem. Until recently I purchased only Wasabi brand and they've been very reliable. They seem to last as long as the OEM batteries but I've not actually counted the number of photos for OEM and non OEM.

I was gifted these batteries with charger and I've had no problem with them. If I had to chose a battery that takes more photos it seems to be these. It may have to do with the USB charger which takes much longer to charge then the OEM charger.

 

[R2D2]

Reading through this thread there are warnings regarding non OEM batteries and while I understand my experience has been very different. The only batteries I've had problems with were OEM batteries and both were Canon.

I've bought non OEM batteries for every camera I've owned beginning in 2007 and never had a single problem. Until recently I purchased only Wasabi brand and they've been very reliable. They seem to last as long as the OEM batteries but I've not actually counted the number of photos for OEM and non OEM.

I was gifted these batteries with charger and I've had no problem with them. If I had to chose a battery that takes more photos it seems to be these. It may have to do with the USB charger which takes much longer to charge then the OEM charger.

Yeah, as I wrote in a concurrent thread, I've had great luck with all of my batteries thus far (knock on wood!). There's a list there of a lot of them...

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66743519

However in the RC sport (Radio Controlled vehicles), the batteries get the snot beat out of them. Puffing up is a regular occurrence (esp the LiPo chemistry) due to hard use and hard charging. Fortunately I haven't had any Li-ion mishaps, but I do charge all my RC batts on a ceramic plate away from anything flammable.

R2

ps. I think your link is broken... :-(

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

 

[StrugglingforLight]

Reading through this thread there are warnings regarding non OEM batteries and while I understand my experience has been very different. The only batteries I've had problems with were OEM batteries and both were Canon.

I've bought non OEM batteries for every camera I've owned beginning in 2007 and never had a single problem. Until recently I purchased only Wasabi brand and they've been very reliable. They seem to last as long as the OEM batteries but I've not actually counted the number of photos for OEM and non OEM.

I was gifted these batteries with charger and I've had no problem with them. If I had to chose a battery that takes more photos it seems to be these. It may have to do with the USB charger which takes much longer to charge then the OEM charger.

Your Amazon link leads to "sorry that Amazon page not found"

Edit: R2D2 beat me to it.

 

[Boris22]

I have a hard tie believing used batteries is even a topic. After spending hundreds or thousands $$ on camera/lenses -- not springing for a new battery doesn't make it way up there on the bizarre list.

 

[nnowak]

For example, you could have a battery that was only used in the camera once, but spent a year sitting on the charger constantly getting topped up to 100%. The battery would look like new with barely a mark on the contacts, but performance would be dramatically degraded.

This is entirely false, and does not apply to these lithium ion chargers at all (like it would to older technologies such as NiCad and even NiMH). Simple Li-ion battery chargers for safety’s sake do not have a float or “trickle” charging function. They shut off charging current entirely when peak voltage is reached. If this is not done, then lithium batteries will over-charge, burst, and/or ignite. Bad bad bad.

Reread what I wrote. Nowhere did I suggest that lithium batteries would be trickled charged.

LOL, you're trying to backtrack from what you posted earlier.

So, in your mind, "getting topped off" means trickle charging, but your use of "topping charge" means something completely different. I am not backtracking, you are just trying to misconstrue my words because you want to be argumentative.

No. What YOU wrote earlier was the very definition of “trickle charging.” Go re-read it.

You went and created a cause and effect relationship: “Constant topping up” resulting in “Dramatically degraded performance”.

I’m simply correcting this bad information. It’s absolutely not how these Li-ion battery chargers work. “Constant topping up would be dangerous!

What I wrote has nothing to do with trickle charging. Trickle charging maintains a continuous voltage to the battery. The charger never turns off. Lithium chargers turn OFF and then only turn back ON to "top off" the battery when the battery has self discharged below a set threshold.

You used the word "CONSTANTLY." That's how the old trickle chargers work. THAT is what would cause the "dramatically degraded" performance that you wrote about. If not worse effects! Bad bad bad.

No, I used the word "constantly" because the charger won't just top up the battery one time, it will do it over and over whenever the charge drops a bit.

Perhaps english isn’t your native language. I’ll help… Webster defines “constantly” as [Continuously over a period of time, Always]. You’re now backpedaling to what would be referred to as “intermittently!” In any event, a (very) intermittent topping charge would not dramatically degrade performance! You are wrong on both these counts.

There is nothing wrong with my choice of wording. The entire problem comes from your misunderstanding of how frequently a charger will top up a lithium battery. It will be triggered at much higher voltages than the 3.5 volts that you suggest and it will happen much more frequently than once "over the course of several months".

But that's not how these Canon Li-ion chargers work. Instead they have a "topping charge" that triggers at typically 3.5 volts, and it takes a looooong time for these batteries to self-discharge to that level!

A typical lithium battery at 3.5 volts would be beyond 50% discharged. The charger will kick in long before the battery every gets that low.

Instead, after the Li-ion battery has self-discharged over the course of several months down to the trigger voltage of the Canon charger, it’ll kick on again for a short while to bring the battery to full charge, and then shut off again.

This would not damage the battery any more than any normal charge/discharge cycles would during that time. In fact fewer cycles would likely occur!

You are wrong is in your suggestion that the battery can sit on the charger for several months before it will be topped up again.

The self-discharge rate for these batteries is Very Low. You’re still thinking in terms of old tech. Heck, I have Li-ion battery packs that have been sitting for over a year unused and still measure over 3.7 volts per cell!

I don't know what battery your are referring to, but all of my Canon batteries are roughly double that voltage. If you have a LP-E12 sitting at 3.7 volts, you killed that battery.

I am guessing you are talking about primary cells, which will behave differently from a camera battery with multiple cells connected to a protection circuit with a built-in balance function. Regardless, judging the charges state of a lithium cell based on a measured voltage is relatively meaningless due to the flat voltage curve of a lithium cell. A measurement of 3.7 volts could be anywhere from 40% capacity to 90% capacity. Only at the extreme ends of charge/discharge will a voltage measurement be remotely meaningful.

I just checked a genuine Canon LP-E12 I have sitting around and it was at 8.0 volts (4.0 volts per cell). After using it in the camera for a few minutes it dropped to 7.6 volts (3.8 volts per cell). The genuine Canon charger took 40 minutes to bring is back up to 8.2 volts (4.1 volts per cell).

The charger will kick in to top up the battery much sooner than that. You're roughly off by a factor of ten.

Definitely not. You're just pulling numbers out of thin air (I sanitized this last bit ;-) ).

Like your 3.5 volt number?

Getting the last few percentage of charge into a lithium battery is one of the hardest things for a lithium battery. Charging from 98% to 100% does similar wear and tear to charging from 25% to 100%

Yet Canon's batteries are still rated at 500 charge cycles even with this charging regimen. Give it up, your argument simply holds no water.

I’d recommend everyone spend some time at the Battery University website. They’re an excellent battery info resource, esp important for the newer chemistries nowadays…

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-409-charging-lithium-ion

If MPB had the equipment to do a full load test on each battery and reported a % for remaining life, then they might be worth considering. As it is, you are buying a complete unknown.

But you don’t know if they do or they don’t! ;-) It’d be good instead to get a definitive answer from them (and from Canon Refurb for that matter). A good job for you? :-D

R2

Whether or not MPB tests their used batteries is irrelevant if they do not post the test results for each battery, or at least publish a minimum threshold that every battery must attain. A battery from MPB could 10 years old with a 50% capacity or a year old with 98% capacity. There is no way of knowing aside from purchasing the battery and doing your own testing

A minimum threshold would be nice. It's why I thought you should research that (maybe after boning up on Li-ion technology?). ;-)

Can't research something that does not exist. I went to MPB's page for these used batteries and there is nothing posted. Feel free to do your own research.

I for one have never had an issue with my camera batteries. I treat them well, and they treat me well back. Amazing things actually.

And I am guessing none of these were used batteries purchased from MPB.

R2

I just did a very quick google search and one of the first hits was the Nikon D850 manual with the following warning:

"Continuing to charge the battery after it is fully charged can impair battery performance."

I am sure if I spent more time searching, I could find a similar warning in a Canon manual.

It’s very obvious your battery knowledge is lacking. I already gave you the best tool (link to B.U. above) to further your knowledge.

You first. Much of what you are citing here is contradicted by the BU article you linked.

Li-ion chemistry isn’t something that you want to get wrong. Go bone up on it (or at least quit spreading false information).

Spreading false information? That would be you with your suggestion that there is no harm in leaving a lithium battery on the charger for several months.