Canon R7 vs Sony A6600

[Renv3r]

Hi all and best wishes for 2023.

The last few years my photography interests has been all over the place. But last few months it got me back to motorsport. What do you think of a kit for motorsport? I now use my Z50 but I want something with a faster AF.

• The ‘old’ Sony a 6600 and the 70-350mm

(Personal drawback’s: menu system, not quite sure if range finder is my cup of tea).

• The Canon R7 with the 100-400 (RF I’m guessing). Af seems fast but have been reading good but also some less good things about it.

Best regards

 

[CameraCarl]

Some years ago I tried the Sony combination and found that, for my hands, the Sony body was too small to easily handle that large of a lens. I have no issue using my Sony 16-70mm lens on the body, but those big zooms with the short camera body and finger grip are just too ungainly and too unsteady. I haven't used the R7 or the RF 100-400, but find that a somewhat similar R6 and RF 24-240 feel just great in my hands. So if it were me I'd get the Canon duo.

 

[MILC man]

Hi all and best wishes for 2023.

The last few years my photography interests has been all over the place. But last few months it got me back to motorsport. What do you think of a kit for motorsport? I now use my Z50 but I want something with a faster AF.

i've seen praise for that z50, what exactly are you shooting that the z50 af isn't good enough? cars are big, it's not much of an af challenge.

• The ‘old’ Sony a 6600 and the 70-350mm

(Personal drawback’s: menu system, not quite sure if range finder is my cup of tea).

the a6600 is not a rangefinder camera.

you should try posting car pics that were shot with your z50, get some discussion going on why you think that they aren't good enough.

 

[Renv3r]

Some of the pictures look fine on the small screen of the Z50. But when viewed on bigger screens the pictures are soft. As you can see here https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66671915 . Have had the same with pictures from circuit races.

Apologies about the rangefinder I should correct myself: the A6600 is a range finder style camera with the viewfinder offset and not centered. Not really my thing.

 

[Renv3r]

Thanks for your 2 cents.

 

[MILC man]

Some of the pictures look fine on the small screen of the Z50. But when viewed on bigger screens the pictures are soft.

with milc evf you can chimp in the field and zoom in to 100% view, there should never be a situation where you don't spot the issues as you are shooting.

As you can see here https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66671915 . Have had the same with pictures from circuit races.

i remember seeing that series of pics when you first posted it; the first day was a total screwup because you were at f/29(!!) and such, but you fixed it the next day and ended up with some winners in that series, like the car with all four wheels off the ground... that shot alone was better than 99% of the pics in any of those threads, and it's plenty sharp enough.

an incredible shot like that justifies the entire trip... nobody comes back from a shoot with 40 pics of that caliber, there are only ever a couple per day that really stand out.

you already recognized the issues you were having, when you posted: "A thing I noticed about my photography is that I'm struggling with real low shutter speed. I'm fine till about 160th"

that means that the af is working, so you aren't having a gear issue, but where the af can fall short is when you shut the aperture down; on some ospdaf cameras the af on an unstacked sensor can revert to cdaf at apertures beyond f/11.

you need to shoot the lens wide open for the best af, and you can improve the af with fast primes shot wide open... however, the only way to make any of that work with slow shutter speeds is with nd filters on the lens, regardless of the gear that's used.

once you get the aperture/iso under control with nd filters, you start thinking about when to apply the proper shutter speeds... for instance, since you can't pan a car that's coming towards you, it'll have to freeze the action with a faster shutter speed, etc.

i started shooting cars with a pentax k10 dslr and old manual focus film lenses from the '60's, then i moved to a clunky old a7r with those same lenses; after that i used an a9 and now an a1... i had to learn how to maximize what i had.

 

[Renv3r]

Some of the pictures look fine on the small screen of the Z50. But when viewed on bigger screens the pictures are soft.

with milc evf you can chimp in the field and zoom in to 100% view, there should never be a situation where you don't spot the issues as you are shooting.

Most of the times I don't watch it at 100% while at the track or next to the road. Only the small preview on the screen.

As you can see here https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66671915 . Have had the same with pictures from circuit races.

i remember seeing that series of pics when you first posted it; the first day was a total screwup because you were at f/29(!!) and such, but you fixed it the next day and ended up with some winners in that series, like the car with all four wheels off the ground... that shot alone was better than 99% of the pics in any of those threads, and it's plenty sharp enough.

an incredible shot like that justifies the entire trip... nobody comes back from a shoot with 40 pics of that caliber, there are only ever a couple per day that really stand out.

It's nice to have an 'incredible' (and thanks by the way) shot but I feel like I'm losing a lot of 'normal' shots. Sometimes even shots that weren't that hard to get. Maybe I'm just to hard on myself and the equipment cause it's only the first year since 2018 I did several motorsportevents again. In 2020 I only did one event with the Z50.

you already recognized the issues you were having, when you posted: "A thing I noticed about my photography is that I'm struggling with real low shutter speed. I'm fine till about 160th"

Despite being not that old I don't have the most steady hands indeed.

that means that the af is working, so you aren't having a gear issue, but where the af can fall short is when you shut the aperture down; on some ospdaf cameras the af on an unstacked sensor can revert to cdaf at apertures beyond f/11.

you need to shoot the lens wide open for the best af, and you can improve the af with fast primes shot wide open... however, the only way to make any of that work with slow shutter speeds is with nd filters on the lens, regardless of the gear that's used.

Thanks for the info. Maybe I should go through my pictures again and check if they indeed start 'to fall apart' above f/11. (Thanks for the explanation - the nd filters I know of - but all the rest was new for me).

once you get the aperture/iso under control with nd filters, you start thinking about when to apply the proper shutter speeds... for instance, since you can't pan a car that's coming towards you, it'll have to freeze the action with a faster shutter speed, etc.

i started shooting cars with a pentax k10 dslr and old manual focus film lenses from the '60's, then i moved to a clunky old a7r with those same lenses; after that i used an a9 and now an a1... i had to learn how to maximize what i had.

I have to admit I suffer from GAS (Not lenses but cameras) - maybe I should go through with my initial plan to get myself a Sigma 100-400 and an FTZ)

A few examples. First one is rather in focus. Second one is missed.


Spa 24 hours

and about 10 minutes later more or less the same circumstances it's a miss. Not ruling out user error but for me it's disappointing.




Spa 24 Hours

Those 3 looked like they came out 'ok' (but in the first I could have 'used' a bit more reach.


DTM - uncropped - unedited JPEG




24h Spa edited on iPad with PS Express




DTM 2022 edited on iPad with PS Express



--
IG: www.instagram.com/nxt2track / www.instagram.com/shotzbyn8

 

[Rodrigo Pasiani]

Happy new year.

Canon.

 

[MILC man]

Some of the pictures look fine on the small screen of the Z50. But when viewed on bigger screens the pictures are soft.

with milc evf you can chimp in the field and zoom in to 100% view, there should never be a situation where you don't spot the issues as you are shooting.

Most of the times I don't watch it at 100% while at the track or next to the road. Only the small preview on the screen.

it only takes a minute to review a photo that's already been shot, you should be able to click a button and zoom it in to 100% or so, and see if it's in focus.

I have to admit I suffer from GAS (Not lenses but cameras) - maybe I should go through with my initial plan to get myself a Sigma 100-400 and an FTZ)

does that sigma lens use stepper motors? not the ideal choice for fast-moving targets, but i don't know what the alternatives are with f-mount/z-mount.

A few examples. First one is rather in focus. Second one is missed.

it was the right approach for both tho, you were at 1/500th coming out of the corners, and 1/160th when the car was parallel to the plane of the sensor, where you had to pan the camera faster.

that second shot looks like the camera pan speed wasn't matching the speed of the car? you are shooting in continuous af mode, right? so there should be a series of shots to look at, were they all off?

need to figure out if it's operator error or actually a gear issue... maybe you could rent better gear for a race, see how it affects your keeper ratios.

the reason for getting better gear is to increase the number of keepers you bring back, and to ensure that the most important shot is in focus.

Spa 24 hours

and about 10 minutes later more or less the same circumstances it's a miss. Not ruling out user error but for me it's disappointing.


Spa 24 Hours

Those 3 looked like they came out 'ok' (but in the first I could have 'used' a bit more reach.


DTM - uncropped - unedited JPEG


24h Spa edited on iPad with PS Express


DTM 2022 edited on iPad with PS Express

 

[Renv3r]

Some of the pictures look fine on the small screen of the Z50. But when viewed on bigger screens the pictures are soft.

with milc evf you can chimp in the field and zoom in to 100% view, there should never be a situation where you don't spot the issues as you are shooting.

Most of the times I don't watch it at 100% while at the track or next to the road. Only the small preview on the screen.

it only takes a minute to review a photo that's already been shot, you should be able to click a button and zoom it in to 100% or so, and see if it's in focus.

I know but it's a kind of a habit. Only 1 per 25 pictures or so I will check one. Cause on the track there is always something going on. On rally's I'm checking more often because of the gap between the cars. But I rarely check the EXIF data while shooting. Z50 works way different than my Fuji (and old Olympus 4/3 DSLR) where F-stop didn't drastically change and where ISO was a permanent value. (Did check that box now on the camera so ISO isn't set automatically. (I was under the wrong assumption it stayed the same value when you selected one).

I have to admit I suffer from GAS (Not lenses but cameras) - maybe I should go through with my initial plan to get myself a Sigma 100-400 and an FTZ)

does that sigma lens use stepper motors? not the ideal choice for fast-moving targets, but i don't know what the alternatives are with f-mount/z-mount.

If I'm not mistaking it does but some people here on the forum got some great shots with even birds in flight.

A few examples. First one is rather in focus. Second one is missed.

it was the right approach for both tho, you were at 1/500th coming out of the corners, and 1/160th when the car was parallel to the plane of the sensor, where you had to pan the camera faster.

that second shot looks like the camera pan speed wasn't matching the speed of the car? you are shooting in continuous af mode, right? so there should be a series of shots to look at, were they all off?

The serie (2 pictures - don't like the real high burst after the sparks are gone) was indeed off. Could be indeed I was panning too fast or to slow.

 

[Bender79ita]

Hi all and best wishes for 2023.

The last few years my photography interests has been all over the place. But last few months it got me back to motorsport. What do you think of a kit for motorsport? I now use my Z50 but I want something with a faster AF.

• The ‘old’ Sony a 6600 and the 70-350mm

In this case, it's possibly not worth to go with the a6600. The IBIS won't fully work in sync with OSS, the a6400 will do the same thing for almost half of the cost, and is alot easier to resell.

Not sure 100mm would be a worthy upgrade. AF is good though.

(Personal drawback’s: menu system, not quite sure if range finder is my cup of tea).

• The Canon R7 with the 100-400 (RF I’m guessing). Af seems fast but have been reading good but also some less good things about it.

I'm not crazy about an aps-c sensor with a lower end f8 full frame lens.

Not sure it would be a big upgrade from the very good Nikon kit lens, if it is an upgrade at all. Most certainly the AF might just be the best of the bunch, if Canon had good, dedicated APS-C tele lenses, sure why not.

But the Nikkor 50-250 is hard to beat for IQ. I'd say that the Sony (that I owned for a year btw) would be on par from what I've seen.

Best regards

Have you considered an Olympus O-M1? Those seem to work pretty well with car recognition, and have very good stabilization.

Also consider other kind of lens avability aswell, from the manufacturer and third party, if you shoot other things than cars in your free time with your camera.

On a side note, you might want to consider an ND2 or ND4 filter if you want to slow your shutter speed down without stopping down the aperture too much. I use Nisi (for landscape) and never noticed any IQ loss.

 

[MILC man]

Some of the pictures look fine on the small screen of the Z50. But when viewed on bigger screens the pictures are soft.

with milc evf you can chimp in the field and zoom in to 100% view, there should never be a situation where you don't spot the issues as you are shooting.

Most of the times I don't watch it at 100% while at the track or next to the road. Only the small preview on the screen.

it only takes a minute to review a photo that's already been shot, you should be able to click a button and zoom it in to 100% or so, and see if it's in focus.

I know but it's a kind of a habit. Only 1 per 25 pictures or so I will check one. Cause on the track there is always something going on. On rally's I'm checking more often because of the gap between the cars. But I rarely check the EXIF data while shooting. Z50 works way different than my Fuji (and old Olympus 4/3 DSLR) where F-stop didn't drastically change and where ISO was a permanent value. (Did check that box now on the camera so ISO isn't set automatically. (I was under the wrong assumption it stayed the same value when you selected one).

as i see it with that subject matter, it looks like:

1) need to be able to change shutter speeds manually

2) need to keep the aperture opening wider than f/8-f/10 or so, can you set a hard aperture limit on that camera?

3) might need to set a hard limit on how much the iso can float

ideally, you don't want an nd filter when you need a fast shutter speed for non-panning situations, aka cars coming out of a corner towards you, but then you do need it with slow shutter speeds... it's going to be a compromise.

one approach would be to set two button-activated memory banks, one for corners and a second bank with the proper slow shutter speed settings for panning.

If I'm not mistaking it does but some people here on the forum got some great shots with even birds in flight.

even a stopped watch is right twice a day, but you could test it by shooting an af-c sequence of cars on the freeway or whatever.

 

[Renv3r]

Some of the pictures look fine on the small screen of the Z50. But when viewed on bigger screens the pictures are soft.

with milc evf you can chimp in the field and zoom in to 100% view, there should never be a situation where you don't spot the issues as you are shooting.

Most of the times I don't watch it at 100% while at the track or next to the road. Only the small preview on the screen.

it only takes a minute to review a photo that's already been shot, you should be able to click a button and zoom it in to 100% or so, and see if it's in focus.

I know but it's a kind of a habit. Only 1 per 25 pictures or so I will check one. Cause on the track there is always something going on. On rally's I'm checking more often because of the gap between the cars. But I rarely check the EXIF data while shooting. Z50 works way different than my Fuji (and old Olympus 4/3 DSLR) where F-stop didn't drastically change and where ISO was a permanent value. (Did check that box now on the camera so ISO isn't set automatically. (I was under the wrong assumption it stayed the same value when you selected one).

as i see it with that subject matter, it looks like:

1) need to be able to change shutter speeds manually

This can be done and is how I use the camera always at the track.

2) need to keep the aperture opening wider than f/8-f/10 or so, can you set a hard aperture limit on that camera?

Search the camera for it but this can be done while using shutter priority.

3) might need to set a hard limit on how much the iso can float

This I have done and wil know regularly check ISO values and how it affects the f-number.

ideally, you don't want an nd filter when you need a fast shutter speed for non-panning situations, aka cars coming out of a corner towards you, but then you do need it with slow shutter speeds... it's going to be a compromise.

one approach would be to set two button-activated memory banks, one for corners and a second bank with the proper slow shutter speed settings for panning.

If I'm not mistaking it does but some people here on the forum got some great shots with even birds in flight.

even a stopped watch is right twice a day, but you could test it by shooting an af-c sequence of cars on the freeway or whatever.

Can't argue with that .

 

[Renv3r]

Hi all and best wishes for 2023.

The last few years my photography interests has been all over the place. But last few months it got me back to motorsport. What do you think of a kit for motorsport? I now use my Z50 but I want something with a faster AF.

• The ‘old’ Sony a 6600 and the 70-350mm

In this case, it's possibly not worth to go with the a6600. The IBIS won't fully work in sync with OSS, the a6400 will do the same thing for almost half of the cost, and is alot easier to resell.

Not sure 100mm would be a worthy upgrade. AF is good though.

(Personal drawback’s: menu system, not quite sure if range finder is my cup of tea).

• The Canon R7 with the 100-400 (RF I’m guessing). Af seems fast but have been reading good but also some less good things about it.

I'm not crazy about an aps-c sensor with a lower end f8 full frame lens.

Not sure it would be a big upgrade from the very good Nikon kit lens, if it is an upgrade at all. Most certainly the AF might just be the best of the bunch, if Canon had good, dedicated APS-C tele lenses, sure why not.

But the Nikkor 50-250 is hard to beat for IQ. I'd say that the Sony (that I owned for a year btw) would be on par from what I've seen.

Best regards

Have you considered an Olympus O-M1? Those seem to work pretty well with car recognition, and have very good stabilization.

Also consider other kind of lens avability aswell, from the manufacturer and third party, if you shoot other things than cars in your free time with your camera.

On a side note, you might want to consider an ND2 or ND4 filter if you want to slow your shutter speed down without stopping down the aperture too much. I use Nisi (for landscape) and never noticed any IQ loss.

I have watched the O-M1 but it's a bit more than I would be comfortable to spend since it has a smaller sensor than I'm used to. In my region the O-M1 body alone costs about € 2 200.

-

 

[Maxmolly7]

Some of the pictures look fine on the small screen of the Z50. But when viewed on bigger screens the pictures are soft. As you can see here https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66671915 . Have had the same with pictures from circuit races.

Apologies about the rangefinder I should correct myself: the A6600 is a range finder style camera with the viewfinder offset and not centered. Not really my thing.

From what I can see, the shutter speed is not high enough! You need to go > 1/1000 sec. for sure. Try this first before you buy new gear.

 

[John Crowe]

As others have pointed out you need to hone your skills for motorsports photography. Consistent panning, shutter speed selection, aperture selection, lowest possible ISO.

Having said that the R7 is vastly superior to the A6600, and Z50. First and foremost going from 20MP to 36MP equivalent (Canon APS-C is smaller than Nikon/Sony). AF of R7 should be an improvement.

The RF 100-400 is not ideal, but combined with the R7, you should see good results.

I do understand that cars are not big, since non-pro spectator distances are large, and AF can be challenging when cars don't have bright and contrasty livery.

 

[beagle1]

Hi all and best wishes for 2023.

The last few years my photography interests has been all over the place. But last few months it got me back to motorsport. What do you think of a kit for motorsport? I now use my Z50 but I want something with a faster AF.

• The ‘old’ Sony a 6600 and the 70-350mm

(Personal drawback’s: menu system, not quite sure if range finder is my cup of tea).

• The Canon R7 with the 100-400 (RF I’m guessing). Af seems fast but have been reading good but also some less good things about it.

Best regards

the Canon R6 or R7 is good, - for sports also consider the choices for lens

 

[Renv3r]

As others have pointed out you need to hone your skills for motorsports photography. Consistent panning, shutter speed selection, aperture selection, lowest possible ISO.

Is indeed something I need to work on with the Z50. I've only used the camera on 4 motorsport events in about 2 years. Normally (before the pandemic) we did 4 events in about 2 months.

Having said that the R7 is vastly superior to the A6600, and Z50. First and foremost going from 20MP to 36MP equivalent (Canon APS-C is smaller than Nikon/Sony). AF of R7 should be an improvement.

The RF 100-400 is not ideal, but combined with the R7, you should see good results.

Thanks for the info. Still in doubt if I should upgrade or not. Most of the times I'm pretty happy with the shots especially since I don't earn a penny with the photographs and are only a hobby. But sometimes GAS kicks in.

I do understand that cars are not big, since non-pro spectator distances are large, and AF can be challenging when cars don't have bright and contrasty livery.

Tell me about it. In Spa they build a new seating area but now the run off area is gotten a lot bigger. Fortunately there are places on Spa en Nordschleife (only been there once) where you can get pretty close.