How to select a motherboard for a PC build for Photoshop?

[PMB]

In a separate thread in this form I asked about 13th generation Intel CPUs and whether they run too hot. Thanks everyone for a lively discussion and lots for me to absorb.

In the meantime I have been browsing the ASUS webpage looking for motherboards for the Z790 chipset. Woof, there are a lot - like 14 or so. Is there some rhyme or reason to naming convention?

ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI

ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 APEX

ASUS PRIME Z790-P WIFI

ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-I GAMING WIFI

ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-E GAMING WIFI

ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI

ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI D4

ASUS PRIME Z790M-PLUS D4

ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO

ASUS PRIME Z790-P WIFI D4

ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 EXTREME

ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI D4

ASUS PRIME Z790-A WIFI

ASUS ProArt Z790-CREATOR WIFI

The prices range from $279 to $1,369 CDN. While price is not strictly a concern for me I have no interest in buying features I don't need. But the ASUS marketing lingo is loosing me. I don't play games. I use Photoshop, ACR Bridge. I do a bit of 2D/3D drafting with TurboCAD Deluxe. I dabble in C programming the MS Visual C. And the usual email, Excel, Word, etc. The ProArt sort of looks like what I might need, but that one seems to be in short supply.

Peter

 

[PMB]

...

You could try looking at a couple of the MSI boards. They are in stock at ME. The MPG Z790 EDGE WIFI has a lot of features for $529.

Honestly I had not considered MSI. My last two systems were ASUS and I have had no regrets so I thought to stay with what works for me. But I will now give MSI a look, especially if the ROG STRIX-E becomes less available and/or more expensive.

The ASUS Z790 boards have an issue between the PCIe v5 and the first M.2 slot. Do you know if that is also true for MSI Z790 boards? (sorry if I am asking a dumb question and the answer is obvious to everyone but me).

Peter

update: I just checked the manual for a MSI Z790 and I guess the issue is true there as well, if I am reading this correctly.

The ASUS user manual seems a bit more detailed and informative.

 

[BobKnDP]

...

You could try looking at a couple of the MSI boards. They are in stock at ME. The MPG Z790 EDGE WIFI has a lot of features for $529.

Honestly I had not considered MSI. My last two systems were ASUS and I have had no regrets so I thought to stay with what works for me. But I will now give MSI a look, especially if the ROG STRIX-E becomes less available and/or more expensive.

The ASUS Z790 boards have an issue between the PCIe v5 and the first M.2 slot. Do you know if that is also true for MSI Z790 boards? (sorry if I am asking a dumb question and the answer is obvious to everyone but me).

Peter

Not a stupid question.

It's not just Asus.

Gen12 and Gen13 Intel CPUs have 16 PCI-E 5.0 lanes, plus 4 PCI-E 4.0 lanes.

Some motherboards are configured to offer a PCI-E 5.0 M.2 slot that is off the CPU. If an M.2 drive is in that slot (regardless of its PCI-E generation), the graphics slot drops back to 8 lanes. (Apparently 12 lanes isn't an option.) If no M.2 card is in that slot, all 16 lanes are assigned to the graphics slot. (At least, that's the way it works with my RoG Strix Z690-E. Their Z790 boards appear to be the same. I have my PCI-E 4.0 M.2 boot drive in one of the chipset-driven 4.0 slots. No effect on its benchmarks.)

An MSI example: MSI MEG Z790 GODLIKE. The graphics slot is limited to X8 if garphics cards are installed in both PCI-E X16 slots. If an M.2 drive is installed in M2_4, the graphics card drops back to X8 and the second PCI-E X16 slot is disabled.

Some boards have the CPU driven M.2 slot offer only PCI-E 4.0. Then all 16 lanes are available to the graphics slot if a drive is in that slot. (Example: Asus ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI.)

Offering a PCI-E 5.0 slot seems to be less common with MSI boards.

If that matters to you, you'd need to carefully study the manual for each board you're considering.

At this time, there are no PCI-E 5.0 graphics cards or M.2 drives. Even the expensive high-end cards from nVidia and AMD are still PCI-E 4.0.

 

[Robert Zanatta]

The issue is the same for any 13th generation Intel based motherboard that includes a PCIe v5 SSD slot, regards of manufacturer.

The Strix-E price is the same as when I purchased mine a few weeks ago. Unfortunately it seems to not be available online but is available at local stores.

 

[PMB]

Not a stupid question.

It's not just Asus.

Gen12 and Gen13 Intel CPUs have 16 PCI-E 5.0 lanes, plus 4 PCI-E 4.0 lanes.

Some motherboards are configured to offer a PCI-E 5.0 M.2 slot that is off the CPU. If an M.2 drive is in that slot (regardless of its PCI-E generation), the graphics slot drops back to 8 lanes. (Apparently 12 lanes isn't an option.) If no M.2 card is in that slot, all 16 lanes are assigned to the graphics slot. (At least, that's the way it works with my RoG Strix Z690-E. Their Z790 boards appear to be the same. I have my PCI-E 4.0 M.2 boot drive in one of the chipset-driven 4.0 slots. No effect on its benchmarks.)

An MSI example: MSI MEG Z790 GODLIKE. The graphics slot is limited to X8 if garphics cards are installed in both PCI-E X16 slots. If an M.2 drive is installed in M2_4, the graphics card drops back to X8 and the second PCI-E X16 slot is disabled.

Some boards have the CPU driven M.2 slot offer only PCI-E 4.0. Then all 16 lanes are available to the graphics slot if a drive is in that slot. (Example: Asus ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI.)

Offering a PCI-E 5.0 slot seems to be less common with MSI boards.

If that matters to you, you'd need to carefully study the manual for each board you're considering.

At this time, there are no PCI-E 5.0 graphics cards or M.2 drives. Even the expensive high-end cards from nVidia and AMD are still PCI-E 4.0.

Good answer - lots of detail.

Again, I'm a bit over my head here. It seems to me, that if I am going to spend a thousand dollars on a GPU I want it "firing on all cylinders", get the best bang for my precious bucks. It appears from your answer, and from other's similar comments, that the GPU can run on either 16 lanes or 8 lanes. Is there any performance degradation running on just 8 lanes? And if not then why would anyone care about running on 16 lanes? Maybe 16 versus 5 is only Gen 5 issue?

May plan was (is) to put an M.2 NVMe 1TB SSD in some M.2 slot and the GPU in the best PCIe slot. Neither of which will be Gen 5 devices. And I am OK using a M.2 slot that does not conflict with the PCIe slot that the GPU is using. I want to be sure that I can book Windows from that SSD,

Thanks again, to anyone/everyone who's taken time to respond - very helpful to me.
Peter

 

[PMB]

The issue is the same for any 13th generation Intel based motherboard that includes a PCIe v5 SSD slot, regards of manufacturer.

The Strix-E price is the same as when I purchased mine a few weeks ago. Unfortunately it seems to not be available online but is available at local stores.

Robert,

Yes, I am starting to understand that (I think).

The STRIX Z790-E is on backorder many places and has jumped to more than $900 at Newegg. I'll just have to keep on eye on availability and maybe start phoning some of these places to see what their restock plans are.

Thanks
Peter

 

[BobKnDP]

Not a stupid question.

It's not just Asus.

Gen12 and Gen13 Intel CPUs have 16 PCI-E 5.0 lanes, plus 4 PCI-E 4.0 lanes.

Some motherboards are configured to offer a PCI-E 5.0 M.2 slot that is off the CPU. If an M.2 drive is in that slot (regardless of its PCI-E generation), the graphics slot drops back to 8 lanes. (Apparently 12 lanes isn't an option.) If no M.2 card is in that slot, all 16 lanes are assigned to the graphics slot. (At least, that's the way it works with my RoG Strix Z690-E. Their Z790 boards appear to be the same. I have my PCI-E 4.0 M.2 boot drive in one of the chipset-driven 4.0 slots. No effect on its benchmarks.)

An MSI example: MSI MEG Z790 GODLIKE. The graphics slot is limited to X8 if garphics cards are installed in both PCI-E X16 slots. If an M.2 drive is installed in M2_4, the graphics card drops back to X8 and the second PCI-E X16 slot is disabled.

Some boards have the CPU driven M.2 slot offer only PCI-E 4.0. Then all 16 lanes are available to the graphics slot if a drive is in that slot. (Example: Asus ROG STRIX Z790-F GAMING WIFI.)

Offering a PCI-E 5.0 slot seems to be less common with MSI boards.

If that matters to you, you'd need to carefully study the manual for each board you're considering.

At this time, there are no PCI-E 5.0 graphics cards or M.2 drives. Even the expensive high-end cards from nVidia and AMD are still PCI-E 4.0.

Good answer - lots of detail.

Again, I'm a bit over my head here. It seems to me, that if I am going to spend a thousand dollars on a GPU I want it "firing on all cylinders", get the best bang for my precious bucks. It appears from your answer, and from other's similar comments, that the GPU can run on either 16 lanes or 8 lanes. Is there any performance degradation running on just 8 lanes? And if not then why would anyone care about running on 16 lanes? Maybe 16 versus 5 is only Gen 5 issue?

May plan was (is) to put an M.2 NVMe 1TB SSD in some M.2 slot and the GPU in the best PCIe slot. Neither of which will be Gen 5 devices. And I am OK using a M.2 slot that does not conflict with the PCIe slot that the GPU is using. I want to be sure that I can book Windows from that SSD,

Thanks again, to anyone/everyone who's taken time to respond - very helpful to me.
Peter

I've looked at reviews of high-end graphics cards forced to run with 8 PCI-E 4.0 lanes.

The performance loss was measurable, but not significant.

(it's too bad that there are no PCI-E 5.0 graphics cards. The theoretical bandwidth of PCI-E 5.0 X8 will be about the same as PCI-E 4.0 X16.)

I'm booting my Asus RoG Strix Z690-E from an NVME drive in one of the PCI-E 4.0 (chipset) slots. Works fine. No BIOS changes were necessary when I moved it from the M.2_1 slot (CPU PCI-E 5.0).

If PCI-E 5.0 NVME drives ever become available (at sane prices), I'll have to consider whether installing one would be an upgrade. (As an enthusiast, not as a sensible user.)

 

[PMB]

...

I've looked at reviews of high-end graphics cards forced to run with 8 PCI-E 4.0 lanes.

The performance loss was measurable, but not significant.

(it's too bad that there are no PCI-E 5.0 graphics cards. The theoretical bandwidth of PCI-E 5.0 X8 will be about the same as PCI-E 4.0 X16.)

I'm booting my Asus RoG Strix Z690-E from an NVME drive in one of the PCI-E 4.0 (chipset) slots. Works fine. No BIOS changes were necessary when I moved it from the M.2_1 slot (CPU PCI-E 5.0).

If PCI-E 5.0 NVME drives ever become available (at sane prices), I'll have to consider whether installing one would be an upgrade. (As an enthusiast, not as a sensible user.)

All good information - thanks.

 

[BobKnDP]

...

I've looked at reviews of high-end graphics cards forced to run with 8 PCI-E 4.0 lanes.

The performance loss was measurable, but not significant.

(it's too bad that there are no PCI-E 5.0 graphics cards. The theoretical bandwidth of PCI-E 5.0 X8 will be about the same as PCI-E 4.0 X16.)

I'm booting my Asus RoG Strix Z690-E from an NVME drive in one of the PCI-E 4.0 (chipset) slots. Works fine. No BIOS changes were necessary when I moved it from the M.2_1 slot (CPU PCI-E 5.0).

If PCI-E 5.0 NVME drives ever become available (at sane prices), I'll have to consider whether installing one would be an upgrade. (As an enthusiast, not as a sensible user.)

All good information - thanks.

Just to add to any possible confusion, AMD X670E chipsets (for the new Ryzen 7000 CPUs) offer PCI-E 5.0 slots. There would be no reduction in PCI-E lanes to the X16 graphics slot. (Intel Z690 and Z790 chipsets only do 3.0 and 4.0.

(I'm AMD/Intel agnostic. My AMD system is a 3 year old Ryzen 5000/X570 one.)

 

[Craig Gillette]

I have an Asrock board. I believe all the boards with pcie 5 have some "sharing" between gen 5 slots and M.2 sockets. With no 5gen devices yet, i just chose around least impacting future uses when occupying slot and sockets..

 

[Craig Gillette]

My Asrock Z790 board has a somewhat different slot/socket set up (compared to the Asus mentioned). It has two PCIe Gen5x16 slots and 1 M.2 Gen5x4 socket. ( And a Gen4x16 slot and 4 total M.2 Gen4 sockets.) It disables/downgrades slots/sockets somewhat differently than the Asus.

So "best" device placement may be different from board to board. With mine, I used M2_2 for the boot device as that socket doesn't downgrade the slots nor is it disabled when slots are occupied.

 

[PMB]

So far I have managed to order (from within Canada) a GPU & a cooler - both are expected within the next week. I went with the GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 3070 Ti GAMING OC 8G Graphics Card as it was the closest thing I could find to a generic RTX 3070 Ti. As I was shopping, if I didn't jump and buy right away the availability or price changed quickly. I got the GPU for a reasonable price of $899 CAD. For the cooler I decide on a 360mm 3 fan as I plan to use the I7-13700K and would like to have ample cooling. This means I will likely give up on an internal ODD. I ordered a Corsair iCUE H150i RGB ELITE ($239 CAD).

I don't see how, given the current supply problems worldwide, anyone could spec out an entire system and order from just one place without making significant compromises. This system I am building will likely be sourced piece by piece form several suppliers.

Two items down, many to go...
Peter

update: Just got the ASUS ROG STRIX Z790-E motherboard from Amazon for $693 CAD

 

[BobKnDP]

I have the Corsair iCue H150i Elite RGB for my I9-13900k.

I like it. Its fan control is based off the coolant temperature (if you use the iCue software), which is the right way to do it.

The only thing I dislike about it is its fan noise when the fans are run at full speed. (Which doesn't happen most of the time. I've only seen it while running the CPU in a stress test.) I replaced the fans with these. They still make noise at full speed, but quieter than the Corsair stock fans. (No RGB, if you care about such things.)

I have the H150i mounted vertically in the side of a Corsair 500D Airflow case, blowing in. All of the 7 other available fan locations are populated with Noctua Noctua NF-P12 redux fans. I get a small amount f fan noise at idle, but not enough to annoy me.

I hope you enjoy your new build.

 

[asmac]

Search for articles giving guidelines for various usage scenarios.

My takeaway for Photoshop was that multiple cores don't help as PS can't address more than one and that raw speed is the only thing that matters processor-wise. The fastest processors might have fewer cores and be less expensive than the high end processors.

That, plus cramming in as much RAM as you can manage and getting an SSD for storage will make lots of difference.

 

[Robert Zanatta]

The fastest processors might have fewer cores and be less expensive than the high end processors.

The fastest single core performance is on the high end processors.

 

[asmac]

You are correct. The AMD Ryzen™ 5 7600X is 5.3ghz and costs about $300. The Intel i9-13900K runs at 5.8 ghz and costs over $800.

There is a small performance gain but it comes at a big cost.

The point is that ghz is what matters, not cores.

 

[Michael Firstlight]

The issue is the same for any 13th generation Intel based motherboard that includes a PCIe v5 SSD slot, regards of manufacturer.

The Strix-E price is the same as when I purchased mine a few weeks ago. Unfortunately it seems to not be available online but is available at local stores.

Robert,

Yes, I am starting to understand that (I think).

The STRIX Z790-E is on backorder many places and has jumped to more than $900 at Newegg. I'll just have to keep on eye on availability and maybe start phoning some of these places to see what their restock plans are.

Thanks
Peter

Peter,

The Asus Strix Z690E is in stock avalaible now at Newegg for $499. It's a terrific motherboard. I'm running an i9 13900KS with 4x32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator sticks (128GB) just fine and an M.2 Gen4 2GB NMvE SSD for the OS and apps along with an additional 4GB M.2 NMVe Gen4 for on-board data. I can optionally add two more Gen 4 M.2 sticks with a daughter card that comes with this motherboard if I ever need them. Just like Bob said earlier, If I can get my hands on a Gen5 PCI5.0 NMVe stick when they become available I might upgrade as this MB has a Gen5 PCI5.0 NMVe slot, but only if the performance difference is noticeable - we'll see.

Of all the high-end ASUS LGA1700 motherboards I decided the Strix Z690E was the best bang for the buck. After running this board for several months with a GTX 3090 GPU and an iCUE Elite H150 cooler, I couldn't be happier. If you want to OC, this board's BIOS features are extensive - it will score each core and tell you which cores you can OC best, and, if you don't want to mess with manual OCing, you can simply use BIOS E-Z mode and let the Asus AI OC optimizer do it for you with a single click. Here are my results with the 13900KS I'm currently running using the one-click AI overclock:

The motherboard also has an internal port that supports a USB-c Thunderbolt adapter to double the speed of external drives from 20Gbps to 40Gbps - which is great when doing backups using external drives.

I was initially turned on to this motherboard by a friend whose full-time business it is to build high-end custom rigs - and he builds hundreds of them. Note that folks like Bob and I are experienced high-end rig builders and pretty discerning. As he said, we're sane enthusiasts, but not totally crazy - although maybe I am a bit less sane as I also sprung for a Dell 8K monitor and traded up to the 13900KS CPU, but with a major performance improvement for both. However, I'm not springing for a GTX 4090 as the GTX 3090 is more than enough for me - even with high-bit 8K video editing.

You can't go wrong with this motherboard.

Regards,
Mike

--
The one thing everyone can agree on is that film photography has its negatives. It even has its positives and internegatives.

 

[The Point and Shoot Pro]

You are correct. The AMD Ryzen™ 5 7600X is 5.3ghz and costs about $300. The Intel i9-13900K runs at 5.8 ghz and costs over $800.

There is a small performance gain but it comes at a big cost.

The point is that ghz is what matters, not cores.

Sorry, it's a little more than at "small performance gain". More like 60% faster in most processes using multi core processing.

 

[Gilbert1]

The Strix E it's very robust and is as high as you need to go if you want a very robust board with a lot of features. If you want to spend less, the Prime A is good.

If you need RAM, the Kingston Fury Beast DDR5 5600 is a good option. It's fast and has very good memory chips.

Does DDR5 have significantly more advantages over DDR4 when it comes to photo editing and future-proofing?

 

[Morris0]

"The motherboard also has an internal port that supports a USB-c Thunderbolt adapter to double the speed of external drives from 20Gbps to 40Gbps - which is great when doing backups using external drives."

Hi Mike,

What drives come even close to this speed.

Thank you,

Morris

 

[The Point and Shoot Pro]

The Strix E it's very robust and is as high as you need to go if you want a very robust board with a lot of features. If you want to spend less, the Prime A is good.

If you need RAM, the Kingston Fury Beast DDR5 5600 is a good option. It's fast and has very good memory chips.

Does DDR5 have significantly more advantages over DDR4 when it comes to photo editing and future-proofing?

DDR5 is faster than DDR4, and would be future proofing as it's the new standard. I am running ddr4 right now, and will be for the foreseeable future as I am not building a new system. If I were building a new system, I would use ddr5 for sure.