Photo AI vs DeNoise, Sharpen, and Gigapixel

[Dave Harrison-Ward Photography]

At the moment for me Photo AI is an absolute shambles of an application, they released it too soon and are relying on paying customers to do the testing for them. It has loads of issues and the results are far cry from what you'd get from their standalone applications, so I've fallen back to using Sharpen AI for any sharpening and denoising tweaks.

 

[Zeee]

At the moment for me Photo AI is an absolute shambles of an application, they released it too soon and are relying on paying customers to do the testing for them. It has loads of issues and the results are far cry from what you'd get from their standalone applications, so I've fallen back to using Sharpen AI for any sharpening and denoising tweaks.

I guess I'm just lucky. I never used DeNoise very much so I don't have much history. I was using PureRaw more. I used Sharpen AI only as needed. From today.





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Don't Look Up! The very fabric of captured light is noise.

 

[Sagittarius]

All customers who have Topaz AI applications are getting Photo AI for free. And yes, we are the testers because it is impossible for the company to test it on every possible system. There are so many system combinations these days. That is why if you have an issue, you send to Topaz a log and system list. I had a problem with all three Topaz AI apps and Photo AI when they crashed if started from Lightroom but worked fine standalone. I've asked in the forum and nobody else had this problem. So this problem was just in my system. I spent quite some time with Topaz support, including their developer. After Topaz updates, LR updates and Windows updates the problem is gone. So without our help they can not test a software seeing gazillions of the possible system combinations.

 

[gscotten]

All customers who have Topaz AI applications are getting Photo AI for free. And yes, we are the testers because it is impossible for the company to test it on every possible system. There are so many system combinations these days. That is why if you have an issue, you send to Topaz a log and system list. I had a problem with all three Topaz AI apps and Photo AI when they crashed if started from Lightroom but worked fine standalone. I've asked in the forum and nobody else had this problem. So this problem was just in my system. I spent quite some time with Topaz support, including their developer. After Topaz updates, LR updates and Windows updates the problem is gone. So without our help they can not test a software seeing gazillions of the possible system combinations.

I had a problem when dragging the Photo AI window (pre-release) from one screen to another (of different resolution) the UI did not scale properly. The lady at support that I talked to couldn't duplicate my issue as both her screens were the same resolution, but she passed it to the developers and it was fixed in the next update.

And when I asked for a way to deselect background faces, they added the button. I suspect they got a million requests for that, but I am still impressed with their support.

 

[Jim B (MSP)]

I was wondering if those of you who have been using Photo AI for awhile and have also used the individual Topaz AI products prefer Photo AI to the other three. How would you compare then in terms of effectiveness, speed, and ease of use?

The individual apps have a lot more options, and so are more capable with difficult images. They're also better if you only need one function, such as sharpening. But Photo AI is simpler and quicker if you would have used two or three of the original apps on a fairly straightforward image.

My experience as well.

With my sharpest lens, I generally only need Denoise AI as its sharpening is generally sufficient.

 

[Zeee]

I was wondering if those of you who have been using Photo AI for awhile and have also used the individual Topaz AI products prefer Photo AI to the other three. How would you compare then in terms of effectiveness, speed, and ease of use?

The individual apps have a lot more options, and so are more capable with difficult images. They're also better if you only need one function, such as sharpening. But Photo AI is simpler and quicker if you would have used two or three of the original apps on a fairly straightforward image.

My experience as well.

With my sharpest lens, I generally only need Denoise AI as its sharpening is generally sufficient.

The one thing I like is I can open a RAW file in Photo AI. It comes back and I have access to all my colour profiles. I have not had a tough NR job yet to really know, The few times I had some bad motion blur it worked quite well IMO.

 

[ppage]

All customers who have Topaz AI applications are getting Photo AI for free. And yes, we are the testers because it is impossible for the company to test it on every possible system. There are so many system combinations these days. That is why if you have an issue, you send to Topaz a log and system list. I had a problem with all three Topaz AI apps and Photo AI when they crashed if started from Lightroom but worked fine standalone. I've asked in the forum and nobody else had this problem. So this problem was just in my system. I spent quite some time with Topaz support, including their developer. After Topaz updates, LR updates and Windows updates the problem is gone. So without our help they can not test a software seeing gazillions of the possible system combinations.

I also had a rather unique problem with Sharpen AI last year and ended up working for a couple of weeks with one of the developers. He finally resolved the problem I don't know if Topaz Labs will always operate this way, but at the moment they do provide tremendous technical support.

 

[Dave Harrison-Ward Photography]

You only got it free if you had subscriptions to all three of their standalone applications. I never had Gigapixel AI So I had to stump up some cash for it, albeit at a slightly discounted rate.

System configurations has nothing to do with the image quality of what Photo AI is producing, the engine just isn't as good as what they currently have running in their standalone applications, especially sharpening. I could put up with the random crashing (which is down to system configs) if I knew the results were going to be worth it, at the moment they're far from it.

I'll persevere with it as I know they'll get there eventually, but I just feel it wasn't ready for releasing and could have benefitted from being in Beta for another year.

 

[Ernie Misner]

I was wondering if those of you who have been using Photo AI for awhile and have also used the individual Topaz AI products prefer Photo AI to the other three. How would you compare then in terms of effectiveness, speed, and ease of use?

Not yet.

Effectiveness. Pretty darn good for the 1st release. It has done a great job of motion blur but I have not tested it on a tough NR job yet. I don't often need to for what I shoot.

Speed. Not too bad. Reasonable. It appears it has to process each part separately. IMO it would take longer to open each app separately.

Ease of Use. Very easy.

It still needs work but Topaz says on their site that the intent is to one day get Photo AI to a level where it can replace the 3 individual apps.

FYI you can use it as a plug-in and edit it as a RAW. When the DNG comes back to LrC all the colour profiles and lens corrections are available. A game changer.

It's a game changer alright. Blew me away when the DNG came back that way in Lr. Isn't that the same exact workflow that you can do with DXO's PL, if you just want to use the NR in PL?

From their info that comes with Photo AI. I don't know how this works with other developers.

Lightroom Classic comes with two workflows, one that supports RAW editing to output a DNG and another that will create a TIFF or JPG copy of the original image.

The plug-in that supports RAW editing is accessible from the File > Plug-in Extras > Process in Topaz Photo AI menu and will send any image directly to Topaz Photo AI, then import the processed image back into Lightroom Classic. We highly recommend using this workflow with your RAW files for the best image quality results.

 

[Ernie Misner]

I ran this through. Plane was pretty blurry. It automatically selected the subject. I set sharpening to motion blur and it also took 3 seconds.

Very impressive! Just Photo AI, right? Did you round trip from Lr, or open the raw directly in Photo AI?

--
Ernie Misner

Ernie Misner

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Light pollution does not only erase our view of the stars. Scientific evidence suggests that artificial light at night has negative and deadly effects on wildlife, including amphibians, birds, insects, and mammals. ~ Bin Chen

 

[Ernie Misner]

Thank you all for responding. I do mostly landscapes and almost always on a tripod and at ISO 100 as much as possible. I use DeNoise AI on those occasion when I've had to shoot with a faster shutter speed and a higher ISO because of wind.

Remember that when wind is vibrating the tripod that you can turn the stabilization on. I give the tripod a slight jiggle right before shooting to center the VR (IS, stabilization, IBIS, etc), then fire the second it settles down. Works great with normal shutter speeds but not with long exposures.

Occasionally I'll use Sharpen AI because it can do wonders with motion blur when my shutter speed wasn't quite fast enough. Normally I'll use the high pass filter in Photoshop for sharpening, but I always go to DeNoise for any noise. Luckily I don't have to use either one too often because the models are soooo slow to load and update. (I'm running Windows 10 on a 4th generation Core i7 with 24 GB of memory, a Radeon RX 570 Armor 8G OC, and a 256 GB SSD solely dedicated to use as a scratch disk for Photoshop, so upgrading my system would help somewhat but not a lot)

I ignored Photo AI when it first came out because I knew that the standalones did a better job, but I also knew development was continuing and that Topaz releases updates quite frequently so I wondered if it had caught up with the standalones yet. If I download Photo AI for the trial period I'll want to test it thoroughly before the trial period expires and that will be time consuming so the real question was "is it worth the effort?". It sounds to me, given how I work, that I shouldn't bother with Photo AI for now though I may well want to switch within a year or less.

Thank you all again.
Peter

 

[Ernie Misner]

I feel the image quality is different, but that could be entirely my imagination...

I also find images look different.

Both to you and Lan. In which way? Have you tried doing this as a plug-in and editing in PAI as a RAW?

I am using all Topaz apps as plug ins to Lr Classic. Some images are sharpened differently. Some images after allpying NR in Photo AI look somewhat more plasticy. Some images proccesed in Photo AI look quite good. Apparently different algorithms are being applied.

My experience is similiar to Sagittarius's. NR when combined with uprezzing tends to result in very plasticky and detail free images. That's not the case if I use Gigapixel and DeNoise separately. I'm almost wondering whether it's applying the operations in wrong order?

FWIW I don't directly process raw images with any of the Topaz tools routinely. I tend to use GP/Sh/DN as PS plugins, and Photo AI standalone. I always process my raws with DxO PhotoLab.

What is your workflow like when using DXO PL and Topaz both? Assuming you always use the raw file, and DXO like you said.

 

[Ernie Misner]

I was wondering if those of you who have been using Photo AI for awhile and have also used the individual Topaz AI products prefer Photo AI to the other three. How would you compare then in terms of effectiveness, speed, and ease of use?

I find I use a mixture of both the standalone versions, and Photo AI.

The individual applications have more control, which is helpful with difficult images.

When I want a "one click" option for a quick fix, I'd use Photo AI, but there are some images I can't seem to get a decent output from using Photo AI.

At the moment I plan to keep both the individual apps and Photo AI installed.

I feel the image quality is different, but that could be entirely my imagination...

I also find images look different.

Both to you and Lan. In which way? Have you tried doing this as a plug-in and editing in PAI as a RAW?

I am using all Topaz apps as plug ins to Lr Classic. Some images are sharpened differently. Some images after allpying NR in Photo AI look somewhat more plasticy. Some images proccesed in Photo AI look quite good. Apparently different algorithms are being applied.

As for a plug-in how are you doing this? Dragging the file from LrC into Sharpen AI? I don’t see the option in plug-in extras for that. I tried the dragging a file into Sharpen/DeNoise but I didn’t like the process.

Edit in. Plug-in extras is a different story.

Right.I do that as well. You can drag the file into Sharpen or DeNoise and it will open as a RAW. However when you save it back at LrC, in the Library page you have to select the folder and use the Sync folder command. You lose the colour profiles and lens corrections for Canon. I think Sony works OK. At the end he only shows Sony in LrC and you can see it will have the profiles. For Canon it just says Color when I've done it. I've tried this a dozen times.

Try using Edit In < PS CC, then use Topaz as a plugin from there, then finish the round trip back to Lr. Works for me.

 

[ppage]

Thank you all for responding. I do mostly landscapes and almost always on a tripod and at ISO 100 as much as possible. I use DeNoise AI on those occasion when I've had to shoot with a faster shutter speed and a higher ISO because of wind.

Remember that when wind is vibrating the tripod that you can turn the stabilization on. I give the tripod a slight jiggle right before shooting to center the VR (IS, stabilization, IBIS, etc), then fire the second it settles down. Works great with normal shutter speeds but not with long exposures.

Yes I did know that, but no, I never remember to do it. Thanks for reminding me Ernie.

Peter

 

[Zeee]

Thank you all for responding. I do mostly landscapes and almost always on a tripod and at ISO 100 as much as possible. I use DeNoise AI on those occasion when I've had to shoot with a faster shutter speed and a higher ISO because of wind.

Remember that when wind is vibrating the tripod that you can turn the stabilization on. I give the tripod a slight jiggle right before shooting to center the VR (IS, stabilization, IBIS, etc), then fire the second it settles down. Works great with normal shutter speeds but not with long exposures.

Yes I did know that, but no, I never remember to do it. Thanks for reminding me Ernie.

Peter

Yes. The new lenses are equipped tripod recognition. Well it doesn't actually know it's a tripod but best to turn IS off. I use IS with a monopod because there is always slight movement.

 

[Lan]

My experience is similiar to Sagittarius's. NR when combined with uprezzing tends to result in very plasticky and detail free images. That's not the case if I use Gigapixel and DeNoise separately. I'm almost wondering whether it's applying the operations in wrong order?

FWIW I don't directly process raw images with any of the Topaz tools routinely. I tend to use GP/Sh/DN as PS plugins, and Photo AI standalone. I always process my raws with DxO PhotoLab.

What is your workflow like when using DXO PL and Topaz both? Assuming you always use the raw file, and DXO like you said.

I export from DxO as a 16 bit TIFF, then load the TIFF into Photo AI standalone.

I tend to use DN/Sh as plug-ins within PS.

 

[Ernie Misner]

Thank you all for responding. I do mostly landscapes and almost always on a tripod and at ISO 100 as much as possible. I use DeNoise AI on those occasion when I've had to shoot with a faster shutter speed and a higher ISO because of wind.

Remember that when wind is vibrating the tripod that you can turn the stabilization on. I give the tripod a slight jiggle right before shooting to center the VR (IS, stabilization, IBIS, etc), then fire the second it settles down. Works great with normal shutter speeds but not with long exposures.

Yes I did know that, but no, I never remember to do it. Thanks for reminding me Ernie.

Peter

Yes. The new lenses are equipped tripod recognition.

It's the IBIS/IS combo that seems to be working so well on the tripod for me (no tripod setting on the lens). Yes, definitely off for normal tripod shooting. But strong winds requires some some help, like leaving it on which does work.

Well it doesn't actually know it's a tripod but best to turn IS off. I use IS with a monopod because there is always slight movement.

Same here, as with hand holding.

 

[Ernie Misner]

My experience is similiar to Sagittarius's. NR when combined with uprezzing tends to result in very plasticky and detail free images. That's not the case if I use Gigapixel and DeNoise separately. I'm almost wondering whether it's applying the operations in wrong order?

FWIW I don't directly process raw images with any of the Topaz tools routinely. I tend to use GP/Sh/DN as PS plugins, and Photo AI standalone. I always process my raws with DxO PhotoLab.

What is your workflow like when using DXO PL and Topaz both? Assuming you always use the raw file, and DXO like you said.

I export from DxO as a 16 bit TIFF, then load the TIFF into Photo AI standalone.

Ah, thanks!

I tend to use DN/Sh as plug-ins within PS.