K1 V2.0 Limited Function Grad ND Simulator

[James O'Neill]

I think BMW is doing this sort of thing in Europe, where you can pay extra for heated seats that are turned on remotely via internet after you pay up. This may open the door for another new age of capitalism, baffling any Marxists and Leninists still out there who also never foresaw store credit or credit cards. Maybe Pentax can go for a pay-per-shutter release on their next new cameras?

Not so far fetched. See Adobe subscription plans...

I figure I'm way better off with Adobe's plan. When there is a special offer - typically 25% off - I buy 12 months worth but even at the £10 / €10 / $10 per month, it's cheaper than buying outright and upgrading.

I'd LOVE deals similar to buying a car. Buy a K3-III for $100 down, and $50 per month for 3 years ( 3 years of warranty included) then hand it back (Penalty payment for more than 30,000 shots) or buy it for another $200. You've paid more than the list price, but borrowed money cheaply. It's worth more than $200 as a trade in so the difference is the deposit to towards your K3-iv (assuming they bring one out within 3 years of the K3-iii)

I'm sure the BMW thing was mentioned in this context before. For some options the cost of the extra part is small, and it costs more to keep two different parts. Making heated seats standard on all cars pushes up the cost to all customers, but fitting them everywhere and only turning them on if they are paid for keeps the basic model price down. As a customer for heated seats you might pay less, because you're paying for the part in your car, and the cost of unused parts in other peoples, BUT the latter is less than having multiple kinds of seat to be fitted as cars are built. People got very wound up about the options they paid less to not have were still present but disabled (there are a few on many cars which simply need to be connected, but this was done with bytes, not cables).

The adobe model gives me Photoshop, web / mobile lightroom, Lightroom classic, premiere rush, bridge and some other bits I don't use, and makes wants 3 times the money to add InDesign, Illustrator, premiere pro etc.

Ricoh shaving $250 off the price a K1-iii and then charging up to $500 for extras (the average customer pays the same, the basic customer pays less, those who want all bells and whistles pay more) doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. I could see GPS / Astro, various multi-exposure modes, development filters, even video being options. The glass half-full people will see the cheaper base price, the glass-half empty people will complain about extra charges.

TBH there is no reason to add features to a mature product like the K1, it was superseded by the K1-ii 5 years ago today. It's very nice to give things to mark 1 owners like me, but it is effort that is not making money for Ricoh, so charging pay for a little software development... yeah why not.

 

[Jon Donahue]

X -- James in his post above yours makes a pretty good case for subscription options, using Adobe as a good example. At 79, I am a grudging convert... still have Photoshop 7 on my PC, but am subscribing now for Lightroom which is very useful on the iPad. It,s just that... darn, we used to actually buy our software, not rent it... the same way that we used to buy everything, not rent products or their extra features. James makes a good case for renting only what you need, as long as you need it. But this is a big change!

 

[RBIV]

X -- James in his post above yours makes a pretty good case for subscription options, using Adobe as a good example. At 79, I am a grudging convert... still have Photoshop 7 on my PC, but am subscribing now for Lightroom which is very useful on the iPad. It,s just that... darn, we used to actually buy our software, not rent it... the same way that we used to buy everything, not rent products or their extra features. James makes a good case for renting only what you need, as long as you need it. But this is a big change!

Mmmmm. I"m not convinced.

I think it makes a large difference as regards how much one uses the product. For commercial use, professional photographers and image makers working every day with a camera or software, then subscription probably makes sense.

For amateur (meaning one doesn't make his living via imaging) usage, or hobbyists whose use varies from daily to weekly, to maybe only monthly, then no. I don't see the numbers working to the advantage of the non-professional consumer.

As regards camera bodies specifically, to build everything anybody wants into the camera and then charge to unlock the options various users want will have to result in a large, heavy, overly complex body. No thanks. Better to have a base, enthusiast, and a "pro" model at set prices, I think. Too many people want too many conflicting features.

 

[Jon Donahue]

Might be the difference between software and hardware we are running into here. Software is easy... you can offer any number of paid options without changing the physical product. But hardware, no. Imagine buying the base Corvette with a 4-cylinder engine, impossible to uograde online to a V-8.

Our Pentax DSLRs should be safe enough, since Ricoh is such a hidebound parent company. Which is great for our older user demographic, as we are not excatly excited about rapid change. "By golly, young fella, you really think the self-starter on that '25 Model T is a good idea?" And then there are retrograde customers like me, happily using my GR in M Manual mode, suddenly it's 1980.



But "Que sera, sera, the future's not ours to see," sang Doris Day, back when. Just as well. The internet is delivering the biggest changes since the industrial revolution. My DSLR is fast becoming a paperweight, but it remains a joy to hold and use, same as an old Model T remains a joy to drive...

 

[JeremieB]

Might be the difference between software and hardware we are running into here. Software is easy... you can offer any number of paid options without changing the physical product. But hardware, no. Imagine buying the base Corvette with a 4-cylinder engine, impossible to uograde online to a V-8.

"Open hardware" exists though ;-)

And a counter example is the K1 to K1ii main board upgrade.

Personally I may be old fashioned but I refuse to pay any recurring fee for software. I understand and respect why they do that, but I just don't want it for me.

Our Pentax DSLRs should be safe enough, since Ricoh is such a hidebound parent company. Which is great for our older user demographic, as we are not excatly excited about rapid change. "By golly, young fella, you really think the self-starter on that '25 Model T is a good idea?" And then there are retrograde customers like me, happily using my GR in M Manual mode, suddenly it's 1980.

But "Que sera, sera, the future's not ours to see," sang Doris Day, back when. Just as well. The internet is delivering the biggest changes since the industrial revolution. My DSLR is fast becoming a paperweight, but it remains a joy to hold and use, same as an old Model T remains a joy to drive...

The future is what we want it to be ;-)

If it's a joy to use something, use it, who cares if it's old or new tech ? ;-)

 

[James O'Neill]

In future I can imagine camera that autouploads everything into $$$ cloud. You buy camera and you get 5GB for first year for free and pay for more GB and time. No card slots and camera storage.

That's roughly how my 6 year old iPhone works. No card slot, everything goes to the cloud. That does seem to be what people want. However bandwidth comes and goes, and something like the K1 can only transmit at 1MB/Sec but can shoot at 200MB/Sec.

And cloud will do automatic AI processing of images detecting location, people on photos etc. And if you accidentaly take pic of naked kid on public swimming pool or you'll be present with camera during some anti-government riots, it will automatically send GPS data to police and they will arrest you in 15minutes. I expect this to be standard around 2025 for all phones and later for all cameras that will survive on market.

Here in the UK, after World War II, a bloke called George Orwell (who's buried about 3 minutes drive from where I'm sitting), wrote a government IT plan, it was meant to be delivered by 1984 , but like all government IT projects it's running late. Police even in democratic countries know which phones have been present at protests. Some of the worlds biggest companies (Google, Facebook) make unimaginable amounts of money from surveillance.

Unlocking functionality in camera by credit-card is disgusting

Why ? Seriously. Why should a premium add-on need you to get a different set of bytes for your camera ? Why not have one set of bytes and turn things on for people who pay

method of grinding money from already tiny customer base that already is like hostage

No-one has been forced to buy a camera from Ricoh. Canon, Fuji, Leica, Nikon, , Panasonic, Sony, whatever Olympus is now are all happy to take your money. If we're hostages we've all embraced Stockholm syndrome.

pushed into paying more for rebranded Tamron lenses while having no 3rd party alternatives with K mount.

On the one hand you complain that Sigma et al have given up making lenses for K-Mount and targeting MILCs with new product. On the other you complain that Ricoh have licensed IP from elsewhere so lenses are available.

Not to mention overpriced several years old cameras and own mediocre lenses with premium prices.

Again, no one is marching anyone to the camera store with a gun to their head making you buy cameras and lenses they don't want.

One would expect the exact opposite - to release FW updates with added functionality even for older cameras like K5, K3, K50

The K5 is 12 years old. Why on earth would Ricoh employ programmers to add features to it, testers to validate their work, and then give it away for free? They are spending such a tiny amount on R&D which they hope will make money! In fact why add features even to the K1? Adding to current models to sell more and not disadvantaging those who bought current model early,

to keep their users in close relationship with beloved Pentax and to motivate them positively to buy something new in future instead of switching to other brands.

Sorry that's just daft. I still have a K5. I didn't get a K3 or K3-ii or K3-iii and I haven't bought one of those by now I'm probably not going to buy a new one. A used K3 perhaps, but Ricoh giving me Satobi or the Grad ND Simulator for the K5 isn't going to change that.

 

[DougOB]

Might be the difference between software and hardware we are running into here. Software is easy... you can offer any number of paid options without changing the physical product. But hardware, no. Imagine buying the base Corvette with a 4-cylinder engine, impossible to uograde online to a V-8.

Car leasing is quite common.

Our Pentax DSLRs should be safe enough, since Ricoh is such a hidebound parent company. Which is great for our older user demographic, as we are not excatly excited about rapid change. "By golly, young fella, you really think the self-starter on that '25 Model T is a good idea?" And then there are retrograde customers like me, happily using my GR in M Manual mode, suddenly it's 1980.

But "Que sera, sera, the future's not ours to see," sang Doris Day, back when. Just as well. The internet is delivering the biggest changes since the industrial revolution. My DSLR is fast becoming a paperweight, but it remains a joy to hold and use, same as an old Model T remains a joy to drive...

 

[Jon Donahue]

Of course you've hit on the Pentax marketing problem. Our K-5 DSLRs need no upgrades at all. They are just fine as when new, and will last for another 20 years or so. Unlike Apple phones, they will not go obsolete with new apps requiring new operating systems. Buy another Pentax? I'll wait for some real improvements in low-light sensor capability... or iPhone-like wifi image transmission speeds.