Telephoto lens and aperture relationship

Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on thhe forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
My stongest telephoto used to be a similar Nikon lens. I replaced it because sharpness suffered at the longest telephoto setting. I bit the bullet and paid the extra money to replace it with an f/2.8 lens that held that widest f/stop throughout the range. For me, it was a good decision.

One thing to consider is there is a frequently quoted rule of thumb that lenses are sharpest a couple of stops above the widest aperture. So for the sharpest results you may need to be be even more closed down than f/5.6 at the long end.
 
All true that a wide aperture is a must but you should also consider ISO. The previous person stated that the sharpest aperture is a couple of stops past the widest, and that is a rule of thumb that is true. The best thing for you to do is test it at all apertures, shutter speeds, and ISO settings, and view your results and compare. My D610 has pretty good ISO forgiveness and I can easily shoot at around 2000ish, without getting too much noise.
 
A 70-200mm f/2.8 zoom is standard equipment for basketball, tennis, volleyball and other court sports. Depending on the length of the pool (25 meters or 50 meters), a 70-200 can be the perfect fit or a bit on the short side.

Of course, if you're not shooting professionally, it can be difficult to justify the cost of a 300mm or 400mm f/2.8. Personally, I don't own a long, fast prime. On the occasions when I am shooting field sports (e.g. American football, soccer) that call for longer, fast reach, I work on positioning myself closer to the action I want to capture so my 70-200 is near enough to make a good image.
 
Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on thhe forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Why do you think that the aperture isn't large enough? I've taken perfectly acceptable basketball shots on micro Four Thirds with a 35-100/4-5.6 lens. The aperture of that is half the size of the one you're talking about here.



558b3269f36449fe9b72dfed4267556d.jpg



The one gripe I'd have about the results is that they'd be better with more background blur, since the background detail is somewhat distracting. A larger aperture would help there.

--
Is it always wrong
for one to have the hots for
Comrade Kim Yo Jong?
 
Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on thhe forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Why do you think that the aperture isn't large enough? I've taken perfectly acceptable basketball shots on micro Four Thirds with a 35-100/4-5.6 lens. The aperture of that is half the size of the one you're talking about here.
Aperture half the size but f-stop the same.

Your shot does show f/5.6 can do the job, which is the important bit :)
 
Not an expert.

What I've seen is a standard tele lens is usually between f/5.6 to f/6.5 and the tele end.

The lower the aperture, usually the more expensive the lens will be.
 
Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on thhe forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Why do you think that the aperture isn't large enough? I've taken perfectly acceptable basketball shots on micro Four Thirds with a 35-100/4-5.6 lens. The aperture of that is half the size of the one you're talking about here.
Aperture half the size but f-stop the same.
Yes.
Your shot does show f/5.6 can do the job, which is the important bit :)
It shows that f/5.6 on mFT can do the job, which means that f/7.5 on APS-C or f/11 on FF could do the same job with regards to noise, DOF and diffraction blur.

The OP doesn't say what sensor size he's working with, but assuming APS-C, f/5.6 should be better than my example.

There is another consideration. A few seats away from me was a fellow with an FF camera with a 70-200/2.8. Frankly, he was a real nuisance to others in the audience, whilst I, with my small lens and camera, wasn't.
 
Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on thhe forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Why do you think that the aperture isn't large enough? I've taken perfectly acceptable basketball shots on micro Four Thirds with a 35-100/4-5.6 lens. The aperture of that is half the size of the one you're talking about here.

558b3269f36449fe9b72dfed4267556d.jpg

The one gripe I'd have about the results is that they'd be better with more background blur, since the background detail is somewhat distracting. A larger aperture would help there.
If I'm not mistaken, the Commonwealth Games require a lighting level in the range of 100-125 fc (1100-1350 lux) for televised basketball. That would be considerably brighter than many US high school sports venues and even brighter than many US college sports venues. 50-75 fc is the standard for US collegiate regional telecasts. 100-125 fc is the minimum light level for nationally televised NCAA games. At least, that was the standard about 5 years ago.

Depending on where the OP does sports photography, they may be dealing with lighting levels in the 50-75 fc range (540-800 lux). If so, an f/5.6 lens is going to be pretty dark. I've shot American football in a college stadium lit at about 60 fc (650 lux) and my typical settings were f/2.8, 1/800, ISO 6400.

The OP's f/5.6 lens may be up to the task in a well-lit arena. If the lighting they're in is in that 100 fc and higher range, awesome! But if they'll be shooting in darker conditions, an f/2.8 zoom will be a much better fit for the task.

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
 
In some respects, lens choice may depend on your shooting skill or required image quality. If you have very good timing to capture peak action or can accept images that are slightly blurry, you might be able to shoot slower shutter speed. If you require higher image sharpness for action a wider aperture might be necessary.

For full frame sensors I definitely recommend f/2.8 or faster such as 70-200 and/or 300 f/2.8. In brighter outdoor sports, faster lenses allow reasonable use of a teleconverter.

I tend to require sharp images for newspaper, magazine or poster publications for sports or dance therefore usually shoot at f/2.8
 
Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on thhe forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Why do you think that the aperture isn't large enough? I've taken perfectly acceptable basketball shots on micro Four Thirds with a 35-100/4-5.6 lens. The aperture of that is half the size of the one you're talking about here.

558b3269f36449fe9b72dfed4267556d.jpg

The one gripe I'd have about the results is that they'd be better with more background blur, since the background detail is somewhat distracting. A larger aperture would help there.
If I'm not mistaken, the Commonwealth Games require a lighting level in the range of 100-125 fc (1100-1350 lux) for televised basketball. That would be considerably brighter than many US high school sports venues and even brighter than many US college sports venues. 50-75 fc is the standard for US collegiate regional telecasts. 100-125 fc is the minimum light level for nationally televised NCAA games. At least, that was the standard about 5 years ago.

Depending on where the OP does sports photography, they may be dealing with lighting levels in the 50-75 fc range (540-800 lux). If so, an f/5.6 lens is going to be pretty dark. I've shot American football in a college stadium lit at about 60 fc (650 lux) and my typical settings were f/2.8, 1/800, ISO 6400.

The OP's f/5.6 lens may be up to the task in a well-lit arena. If the lighting they're in is in that 100 fc and higher range, awesome! But if they'll be shooting in darker conditions, an f/2.8 zoom will be a much better fit for the task.
All good points, Bill. Further, if the crowds are smaller, a big lens will be less anti-social.

--
Is it always wrong
for one to have the hots for
Comrade Kim Yo Jong?
 
you probably want f4 or wider for sports aperture, unless your iso can handle the dark.
 
Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on thhe forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Why do you think that the aperture isn't large enough? I've taken perfectly acceptable basketball shots on micro Four Thirds with a 35-100/4-5.6 lens. The aperture of that is half the size of the one you're talking about here.

558b3269f36449fe9b72dfed4267556d.jpg

The one gripe I'd have about the results is that they'd be better with more background blur, since the background detail is somewhat distracting. A larger aperture would help there.
If I'm not mistaken, the Commonwealth Games require a lighting level in the range of 100-125 fc (1100-1350 lux) for televised basketball. That would be considerably brighter than many US high school sports venues and even brighter than many US college sports venues. 50-75 fc is the standard for US collegiate regional telecasts. 100-125 fc is the minimum light level for nationally televised NCAA games. At least, that was the standard about 5 years ago.

Depending on where the OP does sports photography, they may be dealing with lighting levels in the 50-75 fc range (540-800 lux). If so, an f/5.6 lens is going to be pretty dark. I've shot American football in a college stadium lit at about 60 fc (650 lux) and my typical settings were f/2.8, 1/800, ISO 6400.

The OP's f/5.6 lens may be up to the task in a well-lit arena. If the lighting they're in is in that 100 fc and higher range, awesome! But if they'll be shooting in darker conditions, an f/2.8 zoom will be a much better fit for the task.
All good points, Bill. Further, if the crowds are smaller, a big lens will be less anti-social.
This depends upon the photographer and where he is relative to the baseline and sideline and if he is standing or sitting/crouching. Mom and dad shooting from the bleachers with a big lens is often anti-social.

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
 
Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on the forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
If money and size are no issue, then a 70-200 / 2.8 or 120-300 / 2.8 would be preferable, as they would give more DOF/noise options than a 70-300 / 4-5.6. However, I suspect money and size are an issue, to one extent or another.

Myself, if money were no issue, and you had a mirrorless Canon camera, then the RF 70-200 / 2.8L IS would be my choice. Currently, I have an R, and shoot hockey with an EF 35 / 1.4L II, RF 85 / 2 IS, and EF 70-200 / 4L IS II. I'd love the RF 70-200 / 2.8L IS, but, well, $2500 even on a deal, so...

Anyway, what are your constraints with regards to money and size? Once you give those, it's easier to give a good recommendation.
 
Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on the forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
If money and size are no issue, then a 70-200 / 2.8 or 120-300 / 2.8 would be preferable, as they would give more DOF/noise options than a 70-300 / 4-5.6. However, I suspect money and size are an issue, to one extent or another.

Myself, if money were no issue, and you had a mirrorless Canon camera, then the RF 70-200 / 2.8L IS would be my choice. Currently, I have an R, and shoot hockey with an EF 35 / 1.4L II, RF 85 / 2 IS, and EF 70-200 / 4L IS II. I'd love the RF 70-200 / 2.8L IS, but, well, $2500 even on a deal, so...

Anyway, what are your constraints with regards to money and size? Once you give those, it's easier to give a good recommendation.
I m responding to your post because I want to piggy back on some of the things you said. But this is really intended for the OP to read rather than you, Great B.

I am a Nikon shooter and its 70-200 f/2.8 was in the price range of the IS lens that choked you. That was a little rich for my blood as well, But the similar lens in the off brands (Tamron / Sigma) was a price I could handle. So I did a little research.

I located several videos the compared these lenses head-to-head and learned that for one of these other brands, its difference from the Nikon lens was more in the area of build quality and robustness, Little difference was reported for optical quality or features such as image stabilization, etc., Since I am not a pro and the events I would need the lens for were far from weekly, the build quality became less of a factor for me.

But then I took an extra step. For a sporting event I was asked to photograph whose images would be published, I rented the off-brand lens for two weeks from Lens Rentals for some hands-on experience. That confirmed that it was miles ahead of the quality I had been getting from my Nikon 70-300 f/4.5-5.6. Now, several years later, I do not regret buying the off-brand 70-200 f/2.8.
 
I appreciate everyone's input.

I am definitely not a professional photographer. I'm just sick and tired of pinch and drag photos (digital zoom) on my iPhone of my kids playing sports.

I think I will bight the bullet and buy a 70-200mm f2.8

In all honesty, I am shopping the lens first and the body second. I don't even have the body yet.
 
Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on thhe forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
I have not read the prior posts ... but the bottom line is that the 70-200 @ f/2.8 (constant aperture-f/stop) is the traditional "sports" lens.

Certainly w/ digital, there are now options to use higher-ISO's, but w/ a greater chance of noise.

So it is your decision to balance your budget and (potential) noise.

NOTE ... to "stop" action, you still may need a higher-ISO (even w/ f/2.8), but it would not need to be as high (ISO).
 
Im trying to pick the right lens for shooting sports both indoors and outdoors. I found the articles on thhe forum and i like this one…

https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses/canon_70-300_4p0-5p6_is_ii_usm

however, i feel like the aperture isn’t large enough for an indoor basketball game or an indoor swim meet.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
My stongest telephoto used to be a similar Nikon lens. I replaced it because sharpness suffered at the longest telephoto setting. I bit the bullet and paid the extra money to replace it with an f/2.8 lens that held that widest f/stop throughout the range. For me, it was a good decision.

One thing to consider is there is a frequently quoted rule of thumb that lenses are sharpest a couple of stops above the widest aperture. So for the sharpest results you may need to be be even more closed down than f/5.6 at the long end.
Sounds like advice from 1990 or earlier. It's of course nonsense. If he buy 70-200f2.8, he will use it at f2.8. Otherwise big money spent for nothing.

Below example of 70-200f2,8 sharpness on high resolution camera. F2.8 is less sharp, but difference is very small, you can't notice difference on your photos.

bc5aae499d264f34b102b110bf8bde04.jpg
 

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