Z8, Z7III, Z6III, Zf, Z5II, Z90, Z50II...

  • 24MP is a sweet spot for many photographers who have no need or interest in going to a higher resolution with the larger files
All kinds of pixel counts have been 'sweet spots' over the years. The competition has moved up to 30-ish MP and I suspect Nikon will want to follow suit, in case it gets branded with 'only' 24MP. Or maybe for no other reason that when it comes to lower end cameras they go with whatever Sony SS provides as a catalogue product.
 
You need 39 MP sensor with 3:2 aspect ratio to record 8K. 33 MP is not enough.
39 might be enough for UHD at 16x9. They need 45 for DCI . We can hope Nikon is going to provide DCI on all future bodies. At least I hope.
 
  • 24MP is a sweet spot for many photographers who have no need or interest in going to a higher resolution with the larger files
All kinds of pixel counts have been 'sweet spots' over the years. The competition has moved up to 30-ish MP and I suspect Nikon will want to follow suit, in case it gets branded with 'only' 24MP. Or maybe for no other reason that when it comes to lower end cameras they go with whatever Sony SS provides as a catalogue product.
In addition, it provides at least some upgrade incentive regarding IQ for owners of 24 MP cameras (noise and DR are stagnating for a long time).
 
You need 39 MP sensor with 3:2 aspect ratio to record 8K. 33 MP is not enough.
39 might be enough for UHD at 16x9. They need 45 for DCI . We can hope Nikon is going to provide DCI on all future bodies. At least I hope.
There is an argument that the 47MP on the Z9 will become Nikon's new normal. They already have the vanilla BSI version. The basic design goes back to the D850, so all R&D investment is paid off and the basic sensor is low cost for them (it doesn't cost any more to fabricate a 47MP sensor than it does a 24MP one). They have the stacked variant for the Z9, but they can introduce lower cost stacked variants, with different circuitry in the stack, maybe less buffer and single channel readout. One advantage of a stacked sensor is that it can remove the need for a specialist sensor interface on the graphics processor (or at least changes it to a more standard high-speed bus) , which allows more flexibility in ringing the changes in processing power. I'm told that Nikon has trialled 67 and 100+MP variants for the high resolution model, whatever it's called, so if they continue with their two resolution model, 47MP would be the 'low' resolution one.
 
  • 24MP is a sweet spot for many photographers who have no need or interest in going to a higher resolution with the larger files
All kinds of pixel counts have been 'sweet spots' over the years. The competition has moved up to 30-ish MP and I suspect Nikon will want to follow suit, in case it gets branded with 'only' 24MP. Or maybe for no other reason that when it comes to lower end cameras they go with whatever Sony SS provides as a catalogue product.
Totally agree on that one. Photography really hasn't changed much over the years. But the "sweet spot" seems to change. Prices change, storage changes, processing power changes, technology changes, etc.

Those over in the Fujifilm world for years have declared APS-C the "sweet spot" for cameras.

I don't find "sweet spot" to mean much more than "how much camera (specs and performance) can I get for X amount of money?"
 
Those over in the Fujifilm world for years have declared APS-C the "sweet spot" for cameras.
Well only in the crop-sensor bodies AND -C is the same as super-35 in CINE bodies and the sensors for these are plowing forward -- I of course refer to the new ARRI Alexa 35.

We wait to see what the image quality is from the NEW Fujifilm X-H2 is a high-end 39.8 MP eff APS-C -- based on my maths with such a tiny pixel pitch (3.05 um) it should have a horrendously low DLA -- but this will only emerge when genuine 3rd party bench tests are done.

That said the GFX100 and X2D both sport a 100mp BSI CMOS sensor with IBIS and it delivers 16-bit RAW with 15-stop Dynamic Range - and the image quality from both is extraordinary - so again one has to ask will 16-bit RAW come from a 35mm sized sensor.

The on-going open question for Nikon remains -- "are you going to produce a 30-35 mp successor to the D500 or NOT?" [~83 mp in Fx ~ 3.20-3.42 um]


 
That said the GFX100 and X2D both sport a 100mp BSI CMOS sensor with IBIS and it delivers 16-bit RAW with 15-stop Dynamic Range - and the image quality from both is extraordinary - so again one has to ask will 16-bit RAW come from a 35mm sized sensor.
There isn't yet a FF sensor that will yield more than 14 stops of DR at the pixel spatial frequency, so those extra two bits will just be encoding noise.
 
Those over in the Fujifilm world for years have declared APS-C the "sweet spot" for cameras.
Well only in the crop-sensor bodies AND -C is the same as super-35 in CINE bodies and the sensors for these are plowing forward -- I of course refer to the new ARRI Alexa 35.

We wait to see what the image quality is from the NEW Fujifilm X-H2 is a high-end 39.8 MP eff APS-C -- based on my maths with such a tiny pixel pitch (3.05 um) it should have a horrendously low DLA -- but this will only emerge when genuine 3rd party bench tests are done.
What value did you get for DLA? Diffraction limited region actually starts around f/11 for 3 um pixels.
 
I would say that the only reason for many sports/wildlife shooters without the budget to buy the z9 to stay on nikon are the z8 and z7iii. Would love to see an equivalent to the d500 (maybe fx)
 
Those over in the Fujifilm world for years have declared APS-C the "sweet spot" for cameras.
Well only in the crop-sensor bodies AND -C is the same as super-35 in CINE bodies and the sensors for these are plowing forward -- I of course refer to the new ARRI Alexa 35.

We wait to see what the image quality is from the NEW Fujifilm X-H2 is a high-end 39.8 MP eff APS-C -- based on my maths with such a tiny pixel pitch (3.05 um) it should have a horrendously low DLA -- but this will only emerge when genuine 3rd party bench tests are done.
What value did you get for DLA? Diffraction limited region actually starts around f/11 for 3 um pixels.
Ah, that's what was meant by 'DLA'. Has that fallacy become a thing now?

First, the usual calculations for 'DLA' are not based on good optics, they are completely askew and assume that somehow Airy discs are aligned with pixel boundaries. Second, diffraction never makes a high resolution sensor produce a worse result than a lower resolution one at the same f-number.
 
That said the GFX100 and X2D both sport a 100mp BSI CMOS sensor with IBIS and it delivers 16-bit RAW with 15-stop Dynamic Range - and the image quality from both is extraordinary - so again one has to ask will 16-bit RAW come from a 35mm sized sensor.
There isn't yet a FF sensor that will yield more than 14 stops of DR at the pixel spatial frequency, so those extra two bits will just be encoding noise.
YET !!
 
That said the GFX100 and X2D both sport a 100mp BSI CMOS sensor with IBIS and it delivers 16-bit RAW with 15-stop Dynamic Range - and the image quality from both is extraordinary - so again one has to ask will 16-bit RAW come from a 35mm sized sensor.
There isn't yet a FF sensor that will yield more than 14 stops of DR at the pixel spatial frequency, so those extra two bits will just be encoding noise.
YET !!
Indeed, but they've been stuck at the same point for five or six years. And they don't need 16 bits until they get there.
 
Those over in the Fujifilm world for years have declared APS-C the "sweet spot" for cameras.
Well only in the crop-sensor bodies AND -C is the same as super-35 in CINE bodies and the sensors for these are plowing forward -- I of course refer to the new ARRI Alexa 35.

We wait to see what the image quality is from the NEW Fujifilm X-H2 is a high-end 39.8 MP eff APS-C -- based on my maths with such a tiny pixel pitch (3.05 um) it should have a horrendously low DLA -- but this will only emerge when genuine 3rd party bench tests are done.
What value did you get for DLA? Diffraction limited region actually starts around f/11 for 3 um pixels.
Ah, that's what was meant by 'DLA'. Has that fallacy become a thing now?

First, the usual calculations for 'DLA' are not based on good optics, they are completely askew and assume that somehow Airy discs are aligned with pixel boundaries. Second, diffraction never makes a high resolution sensor produce a worse result than a lower resolution one at the same f-number.
 
Those over in the Fujifilm world for years have declared APS-C the "sweet spot" for cameras.
Well only in the crop-sensor bodies AND -C is the same as super-35 in CINE bodies and the sensors for these are plowing forward -- I of course refer to the new ARRI Alexa 35.

We wait to see what the image quality is from the NEW Fujifilm X-H2 is a high-end 39.8 MP eff APS-C -- based on my maths with such a tiny pixel pitch (3.05 um) it should have a horrendously low DLA -- but this will only emerge when genuine 3rd party bench tests are done.
What value did you get for DLA? Diffraction limited region actually starts around f/11 for 3 um pixels.
Ah, that's what was meant by 'DLA'. Has that fallacy become a thing now?

First, the usual calculations for 'DLA' are not based on good optics, they are completely askew and assume that somehow Airy discs are aligned with pixel boundaries. Second, diffraction never makes a high resolution sensor produce a worse result than a lower resolution one at the same f-number.
It actually makes sense to define three regions depending on the factors which limit resolution of final image:
  1. Sensor-limited region
  2. Transition region
  3. Diffraction-limited region
The issue is that a lot of people confuse end of sensor-limited region with beginning of diffraction-limited region.
I can't see that makes much sense at all. Most lenses have an aberration limited region (at larger apertures) and a diffraction limited region (at small apertures). Aberrations decrease as the aperture is closed and diffraction increases, so in the middle there is a region where the one merges into the other, and that is generally where the peak resolution is. None of these is dependent on the pixel size. More pixels just allows the camera to reproduce more of the detail that the lens projects onto the sensor.

--
Is it always wrong
for one to have the hots for
Comrade Kim Yo Jong?
 
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Those over in the Fujifilm world for years have declared APS-C the "sweet spot" for cameras.
Well only in the crop-sensor bodies AND -C is the same as super-35 in CINE bodies and the sensors for these are plowing forward -- I of course refer to the new ARRI Alexa 35.

We wait to see what the image quality is from the NEW Fujifilm X-H2 is a high-end 39.8 MP eff APS-C -- based on my maths with such a tiny pixel pitch (3.05 um) it should have a horrendously low DLA -- but this will only emerge when genuine 3rd party bench tests are done.
What value did you get for DLA? Diffraction limited region actually starts around f/11 for 3 um pixels.
Ah, that's what was meant by 'DLA'. Has that fallacy become a thing now?

First, the usual calculations for 'DLA' are not based on good optics, they are completely askew and assume that somehow Airy discs are aligned with pixel boundaries. Second, diffraction never makes a high resolution sensor produce a worse result than a lower resolution one at the same f-number.
It actually makes sense to define three regions depending on the factors which limit resolution of final image:
  1. Sensor-limited region
  2. Transition region
  3. Diffraction-limited region
The issue is that a lot of people confuse end of sensor-limited region with beginning of diffraction-limited region.
I can't see that makes much sense at all. Most lenses have an aberration limited region (at larger apertures) and a diffraction limited region (at small apertures). Aberrations decrease as the aperture is closed and diffraction increases, so in the middle there is a region where the one merges into the other, and that is generally where the peak resolution is. None of these is dependent on the pixel size. More pixels just allows the camera to reproduce more of the detail that the lens projects onto the sensor.
 
Those over in the Fujifilm world for years have declared APS-C the "sweet spot" for cameras.
Well only in the crop-sensor bodies AND -C is the same as super-35 in CINE bodies and the sensors for these are plowing forward -- I of course refer to the new ARRI Alexa 35.

We wait to see what the image quality is from the NEW Fujifilm X-H2 is a high-end 39.8 MP eff APS-C -- based on my maths with such a tiny pixel pitch (3.05 um) it should have a horrendously low DLA -- but this will only emerge when genuine 3rd party bench tests are done.
What value did you get for DLA? Diffraction limited region actually starts around f/11 for 3 um pixels.
Ah, that's what was meant by 'DLA'. Has that fallacy become a thing now?

First, the usual calculations for 'DLA' are not based on good optics, they are completely askew and assume that somehow Airy discs are aligned with pixel boundaries. Second, diffraction never makes a high resolution sensor produce a worse result than a lower resolution one at the same f-number.
It actually makes sense to define three regions depending on the factors which limit resolution of final image:
  1. Sensor-limited region
  2. Transition region
  3. Diffraction-limited region
The issue is that a lot of people confuse end of sensor-limited region with beginning of diffraction-limited region.
I can't see that makes much sense at all. Most lenses have an aberration limited region (at larger apertures) and a diffraction limited region (at small apertures). Aberrations decrease as the aperture is closed and diffraction increases, so in the middle there is a region where the one merges into the other, and that is generally where the peak resolution is. Ndone of these is dependent on the pixel size. More pixels just allows the camera to reproduce more of the detail that the lens projects onto the sensor.
I forgot to mention that I was talking about aberration free lenses because aberrations were not necessary to make my point.
There's no such lens. And even if there were, a low f-number 'DLA' is a good thing, not a bad one. So ajm057's 'horrendously low DLA' makes no sense at all.
 
Those over in the Fujifilm world for years have declared APS-C the "sweet spot" for cameras.
Well only in the crop-sensor bodies AND -C is the same as super-35 in CINE bodies and the sensors for these are plowing forward -- I of course refer to the new ARRI Alexa 35.

We wait to see what the image quality is from the NEW Fujifilm X-H2 is a high-end 39.8 MP eff APS-C -- based on my maths with such a tiny pixel pitch (3.05 um) it should have a horrendously low DLA -- but this will only emerge when genuine 3rd party bench tests are done.
What value did you get for DLA? Diffraction limited region actually starts around f/11 for 3 um pixels.
Ah, that's what was meant by 'DLA'. Has that fallacy become a thing now?

First, the usual calculations for 'DLA' are not based on good optics, they are completely askew and assume that somehow Airy discs are aligned with pixel boundaries. Second, diffraction never makes a high resolution sensor produce a worse result than a lower resolution one at the same f-number.
It actually makes sense to define three regions depending on the factors which limit resolution of final image:
  1. Sensor-limited region
  2. Transition region
  3. Diffraction-limited region
The issue is that a lot of people confuse end of sensor-limited region with beginning of diffraction-limited region.
I can't see that makes much sense at all. Most lenses have an aberration limited region (at larger apertures) and a diffraction limited region (at small apertures). Aberrations decrease as the aperture is closed and diffraction increases, so in the middle there is a region where the one merges into the other, and that is generally where the peak resolution is. Ndone of these is dependent on the pixel size. More pixels just allows the camera to reproduce more of the detail that the lens projects onto the sensor.
I forgot to mention that I was talking about aberration free lenses because aberrations were not necessary to make my point.
There's no such lens.
Thank you very much for letting me know. I would have never thought of that.
And even if there were, a low f-number 'DLA' is a good thing, not a bad one. So ajm057's 'horrendously low DLA' makes no sense at all.
 
What value did you get for DLA? Diffraction limited region actually starts around f/11 for 3 um pixels.
Cambridge in Colour and ScanTips.com - both of whom have Diffraction Calculators, both ignore optical performance of actual lenses, which I why I stated one has to wait for actual measurements.

Fuji Film
Fuji Film

Others
Others

--
areallygrumpyoldsod
 
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  • 24MP is a sweet spot for many photographers who have no need or interest in going to a higher resolution with the larger files
All kinds of pixel counts have been 'sweet spots' over the years. The competition has moved up to 30-ish MP and I suspect Nikon will want to follow suit, in case it gets branded with 'only' 24MP. Or maybe for no other reason that when it comes to lower end cameras they go with whatever Sony SS provides as a catalogue product.
Totally agree on that one. Photography really hasn't changed much over the years. But the "sweet spot" seems to change. Prices change, storage changes, processing power changes, technology changes, etc.

Those over in the Fujifilm world for years have declared APS-C the "sweet spot" for cameras.

I don't find "sweet spot" to mean much more than "how much camera (specs and performance) can I get for X amount of money?"
The sweet spot has remained constant, it's always been whatever camera the poster in question is happy with.
 
What value did you get for DLA? Diffraction limited region actually starts around f/11 for 3 um pixels.
Cambridge in Colour and ScanTips.com - both of whom have Diffraction Calculators, both ignore optical performance of actual lenses, which I why I stated one has to wait for actual measurements.

Fuji Film
Fuji Film

Others
Others
If you look at this post of mine: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66492494, F/5.3 for X-H2 might be a border between regions 1 and 2 while diffraction-limited aperture should be a border between regions 2 and 3 instead.
 

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