Color film still worth it these days?

[iljitsch]

Film has gotten more expensive over the last years, and that was before inflation hit double digits. Color film also seems to be hard to come by, and "camera scanning" it is a lot of trouble with color negative film, unlike black and white film and color slide film. B&W you can also develop yourself fairly easy, and as long as Ilford is in business I don't expect any B&W film shortages.

So is it really worth all the extra effort to shoot on color negative film these days? Isn't black and white the "real" film experience? And if you want color, then slide film is where it's at?

 

[neilt3]

The vast majority of film I shoot has always been black and white since after I got a DSLR around 2006 .

I develop it all myself , and always have done .

Before I got a DSLR I shot both b&w and colour , but as my full frame digital gives me the images I want in colour , I rarely use it .

The main times I use colour film is if I want to use it on medium or large format .

The only time I use 35mm tends to be where I've got B&W in one camera and I want an extra body for if I want anything doing in colour but don't want to take a digital body with me .

I've a load of film stored so supply and price isn't an issue . I've started developing my own C41 as the results I've been getting back from where I usually dropped it off to are getting inconsistent.

They've stopped doing it on site and send it away now , and it seems that the developer getting exhausted before they change it .

 

[tassienick]

Film has gotten more expensive over the last years, and that was before inflation hit double digits. Color film also seems to be hard to come by, and "camera scanning" it is a lot of trouble with color negative film, unlike black and white film and color slide film. B&W you can also develop yourself fairly easy, and as long as Ilford is in business I don't expect any B&W film shortages.

So is it really worth all the extra effort to shoot on color negative film these days?

Yes.

Isn't black and white the "real" film experience?

No.

And if you want color, then slide film is where it's at?

Sure, if anyone within 1000km developed the stuff…

Seriously though, nowadays I mostly shoot colour neg for 120 and mostly b&w for 135. The b&w I develop myself and the c41 goes to a lab. All of it I scan at home.

I’ve found colour neg results on medium format can be lovely. It just takes care scanning and getting colour balance right.

 

[iljitsch]

I certainly can't argue with the results, looking good.

What kind of software do you use for the negative conversion?

 

[Trevor Sowers]

E100 and Velvia 50 for me along with some B&W FP4 HP5

 

[Overrank]

Film has gotten more expensive over the last years, and that was before inflation hit double digits. Color film also seems to be hard to come by,

Thats a problem and is contributing to film price inflation too

and "camera scanning" it is a lot of trouble with color negative film,

It’s not a problem if you use a scanner

unlike black and white film and color slide film.

I’m only aware of one piece of software that can do calibrated digitisation of slide film from a digital camera ( negmaster )

B&W you can also develop yourself fairly easy, and as long as Ilford is in business I don't expect any B&W film shortages.

I develop film by putting it an envelope and dropping it in the post, like we used to in “the old days”

So is it really worth all the extra effort to shoot on color negative film these days?

Yes

Isn't black and white the "real" film experience?

Not in my opinion - the popularity of black and white film is partly an accident of history as it was developed first (no pun intended)

And if you want color, then slide film is where it's at?

Slide film is lovely and Ektachrome is my favourite current film. It helps if you have a tripod though

I shoot something like four to five rolls of colour to every one of black and white, and sad to say, I mostly use black and white to test new cameras (as it’s cheaper)

 

[tassienick]

I certainly can't argue with the results, looking good.

What kind of software do you use for the negative conversion?

I scan with a V550 flatbed using the standard Epson Scan 2 software for scanning and conversion. Then into Lightroom for my regular editing workflow.

 

[sjstremb]

Ok, we live in times there "I am the expert, you know nothing" and I do not want to come across like that. This is my position on the film vs digital issue here.

I have been worked with color film material since 1975, I learned on early Kodak Drum print processors and even used process C-22. I used mostly color materials and negative based film all thru the 80, 90's and up until 2005 when I transitioned over to digital.

My main outlets were gallery and museum sales and to private collectors. Back in the 1980's many museums would not purchase Type C prints as they were thought to be too unstable-and they were! We all kidded ourselves that we'd be dead before they faded and I have sadly outlived that thought. We pretty much knew from the work of people like Henry Wilhelm that this was an unstable process long term.

Not the case with black and while silver prints properly processed on fiber based paper.

Not the case with pigmented ink jet and quality rag paper we use today.

I can see the difference in my work converting digital color images to B & W, its close but still not there unless you go the route like Piezography which is a serious commitment to their product line.

I will also suggest IMHO that the range and quality of my Epson P5000 prints far surpasses the color range I got with color negs on RA-4 paper.

Now if you're into it for the short term, not selling to people worried about long term stability of your prints, want the experience of getting your hands wet, go with God and have a blast. For me, personally I'm done with color negatives and do not understand the nostalgia for the process. I do however still shoot with my 8x10 Linhoff and my 5x7 Deardorff and my Toyo 45A-all with black and white film I develop and all printed on fiber silver paper I print myself.

 

[IainD]

Those shots are absolutely beautiful.

Iain

 

[photopeteralfa]

My biggest problem is that you don't have full control when you use Lab to develop color film.I used five films, three BW and two color. All five measured +07 BW, the negatives turned out exactly as I expected, but the color ones came back -1 underexposed. If I return to color film, the only thing is that I will develop it at home in the same way as BW, otherwise it makes no sense to me.

Regards

Peter

 

[iljitsch]

I thought that, unlike processing B&W, the C41 process is highly standardized so really no room for doing it incorrectly (except for not following the process)?

 

[photopeteralfa]

Film has gotten more expensive over the last years, and that was before inflation hit double digits. Color film also seems to be hard to come by, and "camera scanning" it is a lot of trouble with color negative film, unlike black and white film and color slide film. B&W you can also develop yourself fairly easy, and as long as Ilford is in business I don't expect any B&W film shortages.

So is it really worth all the extra effort to shoot on color negative film these days?

Yes.

Isn't black and white the "real" film experience?

No.

And if you want color, then slide film is where it's at?

Sure, if anyone within 1000km developed the stuff…

Seriously though, nowadays I mostly shoot colour neg for 120 and mostly b&w for 135. The b&w I develop myself and the c41 goes to a lab. All of it I scan at home.

I’ve found colour neg results on medium format can be lovely. It just takes care scanning and getting colour balance right.

Beautiful photos

Peter

 

[neilt3]

I thought that, unlike processing B&W, the C41 process is highly standardized so really no room for doing it incorrectly (except for not following the process)?

That's correct .

Unless you've pushed or pulled the film and that'll need special attention .

With fresh chemicals , correct handling etc it should give consistent results .

I had one roll back once that was grossly underdevoped , with some frames being almost clear . What gave it away that they were at fault ( asides from the B&W films before and after it being exposed spot on ) was the writing in the film's rebait also being barely visible in patches .

Even an unexposed roll of film will come back from being developed with the writing nice and bold .

They then admitted that the nozzle was blocked on one of the chemicals in the machine .

Turns out they thought it was odd a few other people's film were also " underexposed" that week but blamed the customer.

Bit obvious when all the film's coming out like that , that something might be wrong ?

As the amount of processing for c41 has gone down their chemicals don't seem to be as fresh as they should be resulting in badly developed negatives .

Muddy , low contrast negatives from the labs are annoying me , which is why I've started developing my own in batches of 15 ( as that's what the kit recommends ) .

If I need a single roll if c41 developing, I'll send it out , but I need to find somewhere new to send it .

As I said earlier , for B&W I've developed my own for about 35 years , so there's always some stop and fix ready to use , and I tend to use a one shot developer anyway , so it's always fresh .

 

[iljitsch]

Hm, as fewer places do their own processing, wouldn't the larger labs be the ones still being able to maintain lower prices due to volume and have higher volume due to lower prices?

There are still (at least) two places here in the city (and in the same street no less) that do their own processing, but I have no idea how many rolls per day or week they handle.

Things have certainly changed since my first trip to New York in 1999 where there was a one-hour photo place on every block. (As well as a tiny little super market and a place that framed pictures.)

I remember bringing three rolls of film and finishing them in a few days, so I went to the place next to my hotel. It was about 9 PM but the lady was ready to fire up the minilab for me... I told her the next morning was fine.

 

[Overrank]

The poor availability of colour film is a real problem which isn’t solved by assuming everyone will switch to black and white. Although your survey would suggest that the majority don’t shoot colour, the age demographic of DPR is slanted away from new film users. If you look at the most recent Ilford survey ( https://www.ilfordphoto.com/ilford-photo-global-film-users-survey-the-results-are-in/ ) the majority of people were <44 years old. Those below 44 tilted towards colour film over just black and white, and ~40% were new to film. That was four years ago, people who are younger than 40 now are likely to have been mostly or completely digital shooters their entire adult life.

Lots of new film shooters are unlikely to post on DPR, or respond to Ilford surveys. There are a large number of people experimenting with using disposables and reloadables as an introduction to film (my local supermarket has had a couple of restocks of Fuji disposables over the summer). Being unable to get access to colour film may mean these people never get into film, which long term is a bad outcome.

As far as I can tell the excessive price rises (£20 for a roll of ColorPlus !) are entirely down to short term profiteering on the lack of a reasonable film supply. Retailers seem to be mostly selling colour film at reasonable prices when they can get hold of it. The shortages are also mostly in rolls of 135, colour 120 has stayed pretty much available throughout.

 

[tassienick]

Yep, the crowd in most of the FB film groups is much younger and overwhelmingly shoot colour…

 

[bmw44]

Probably not exhausted, but the lab lacks good quality control. Maybe they don't use the correct amount of replenisher and/or do not run control strips regularly. No lab that does any volume of processing would replace their developer unless they messed up. They normally use replenisher and adjust based the the results of control strips.

 

[bmw44]

The cost of color film is worth it only if you enjoy the process. Even though I sometimes shoot color for fun and shoot 120 color with using a pinhole, I much prefer the quality of digital. In my opinion, digital in most cases is just better unless one shoots large format, 4X5 or larger.