Tilt Shift Lens

[Guy Roberts]

I was looking at Photography On Line where they were discussing the advantages of a tilt shift lens, and I thought that one would be a great addition to my kit for landscape photography and anything with a building in it.

Looking on BH the only game in town seems to be the Rokinon T-S 24mm f/3.5 ED AS UMC Tilt-Shift Lens, but Dustin Abbott gave it a very poor verdict in his review here Samyang/Rokinon 24mm f/3.5 Tilt-Shift Review - Bing video.

So I was wondering if, say, a Nikon or Canon lens would work on my a7Rii with the appropriate adaptor. I would have to source one second hand as dropping $2k is not an option.

Has anyone here got this sort of setup?

 

[neilt3]

I've recently bought a Canon 24mm TS lens to use in my a7Riv via the MC-11 adapter .

I have nice selection of EF "L" lenses that I use on film or digital ( EF & FE bodies ) so it was an easy choice .

I've not had chance to take any proper shots with it yet as I've only had it a few weeks and while I was away on holiday rain stopped my plans with it . It arrived the day before I set off .

Of the test shots I did , IQ seemed satisfactory , with good coverage.

I got the first version quite cheap , but the second version is supposedly superior. But for my requirements, mine should be fine . YMMV .

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/neilt3/sets

 

[Phil Shaw]

I use my Canon 24mm TS II lens (bought in the days when I used a lot of Canon gear) with the Sigma MC-11 adapter on my Sony A1. This is a manual focus lens so it should work with your a7Ri. The results are similar to those obtained with the Canon 5DSr that I used at the time in that the Sony images show the CA and purple fringeing that was a feature of the Canon images. I have seen some posts here which suggest that the 12-24mm Sony lenses and cropping are a better option, but I have no personal experience of this.

 

[Reilly Diefenbach]

I was looking at Photography On Line where they were discussing the advantages of a tilt shift lens, and I thought that one would be a great addition to my kit for landscape photography and anything with a building in it.

Looking on BH the only game in town seems to be the Rokinon T-S 24mm f/3.5 ED AS UMC Tilt-Shift Lens, but Dustin Abbott gave it a very poor verdict in his review here Samyang/Rokinon 24mm f/3.5 Tilt-Shift Review - Bing video.

So I was wondering if, say, a Nikon or Canon lens would work on my a7Rii with the appropriate adaptor. I would have to source one second hand as dropping $2k is not an option.

Has anyone here got this sort of setup?

No, and I don't recommend any tilt shift lens for architecture or landscape. Every time you tilt or shift, you're shooting through a soft area of the lens, not to mention asymmetrical CA that would be difficult or impossible to correct. In most architecture pics, you're mostly trading one form of ugly distortion for another:


Google Images

You're better off imo shooting a vertical or horizontal or multi row pano series with generous overlap to allow for tweaking in pano software and Photoshop:


Handheld Series 50 feet away

This will boil down to a 1-2 GB tiff which will take plenty of bending before running out of pixels:



PTGui Equirectangular Projection

View attachment 6c60e806b3754ab79812dc1505226d78.jpg
Rosheim

I recommend PTGui ($$$) or Microsoft ICE (free) over Lightroom because of a much better Equirectangular (Perspective in LR speak) projection. You are always free of corner softness/CA because you're only using the sharpest part of the lens.

Last but not least, you're not having to buy or lug around a 2LB fiddly T/S lens and sturdy tripod, so you can reward yourself with a trip to France with the proceeds of the non sale.

I will hasten to add that none of these gyrations will result in perfect geometry, but with architecture you simply need to pick your poison :^)

 

[4Photos]

In a sense, there is lesser need for these lenses, since much of this can be achieved in "post".

Do you want tilt for your landscapes? Focus stacking is an alternative.

Do you want shift for architecture? If you are willing to sacrifice some pixels, perspective correction does the trick beautifully.

If you are looking for a hardware solution, yes, the Canon lenses adapt beautifully. For a much less expensive tilt-only, you could get used Zeiss/Contax lenses put on a tilt adapter. See what's available on eBay.

 

[blue_skies]

I was looking at Photography On Line where they were discussing the advantages of a tilt shift lens, and I thought that one would be a great addition to my kit for landscape photography and anything with a building in it.

Looking on BH the only game in town seems to be the Rokinon T-S 24mm f/3.5 ED AS UMC Tilt-Shift Lens, but Dustin Abbott gave it a very poor verdict in his review here Samyang/Rokinon 24mm f/3.5 Tilt-Shift Review - Bing video.

So I was wondering if, say, a Nikon or Canon lens would work on my a7Rii with the appropriate adaptor. I would have to source one second hand as dropping $2k is not an option.

Has anyone here got this sort of setup?

Disclaimer, I have not used a 'true' T&S lens, but I have been experimenting with tilt and shift adapters with legacy lenses. They work great, but with too great a shift, the legacy lens limitations show - a true T&S lens has a large lens projection, to avoid distortion during shift.

Why not worth it? With today's higher resolution sensors, the results that you can obtain in post with most editing tools are more than satisfactory, and the loss of resolution is really not a factor imho. You have more precise control.

In the field, a T&S lens will let you WYSWYG, making framing more perfect. But you'll learn the same way as in post that placing your object around the centerline, and shooting vertical at times, will give you a better result.

Imho, work with a wider lens and do all your work in post, below were taken with a 10mm lens, corrected in post:



















--
Cheers,
Henry

 

[ahaslett]

Make sure your adapter has a big throat and is flocked. Metabones T Smart works.





The EF 24mm TSE II renders nicely but the resolution is a bit weak. Tilt and shift can be positioned independently. You can rotate them freely but they can be locked at 45 degree angles.

An adapted TSE II is expensive, even used, and pretty heavy.

You can do shift with perspective correction on a higher resolution sensor. Tilt is a unique function, whatever people say about software.

You can stitch TS images, but vignetting is an issue.

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

 

[Rol Lei Nut]

With current high resolution sensors, a good argument can be made that the shift function is now obsolete. You can get the same effect with a wider angle lens (of which there is now a large and affordable choice), holding it horizontally and then cropping.

Some claim the the tilt fuctionality can equally be replaced by stacking multiple differently focused photos with software. I haven't done that myself (don't want to invest in the top software and the free apps I've tried didn't work well), but have seen very good results achieved by others.

Which returns to the question of WHY you want a TS lens and WHAT you want it for?

Yes, Canon and Nikon TS lenses will work fine with adapters on Sony mirrorless cameras. The only thing is, they're big and heavy. I had the Canon EF 24 3.5 TS-E II, nice lens and very nice quality, but I ended up never using it because of size & weight. A small & light UWA could give very similar results when used as described in the first paragraph of this post.

I also still have the 90 2.8 TS-E I and a FD 35 2.8 TS, neither of which I use much. I'm keeping the 90mm until I can get hold of software which really can replace the tilt function and the 35 is such a beautiful piece of cyberpunk styling, I can't part with it.

 

[richj20]

I have seen some posts here which suggest that the 12-24mm Sony lenses and cropping are a better option, but I have no personal experience of this.

I can speak to this. I back up until the building is level, then crop the foreground and (if necessary) do some skew adjustments when editing in Photoshop.

I did some tests early on with this lens.


1 - original framing


1 - cropped


2 - Original framing


2 - cropped

--
Richard
http://www.rsjphoto.net/

 

[Guy Roberts]

Thank you all for your responses, you have saved me some $$

 

[Mike Sandman]

Thank you all for your responses, you have saved me some $$

Well.... I have the Canon 24mm tilt-shift a Sony a7Riii, and an a7c modified to capture infrared light. I find the lens is very useful for photographing building, and for certain panos.

With buildings or tall topographic features, you can "correct" the perspective distortion you gat with a wide angle lens, but you lose some image quality. (The degree of loss depends on the degree of correction.)

The Canon lenses are built like a tank -- heavy, and fat. And while you can hand-hold the 24mm Canon, it's best on a tripod. But if you enjoy architectural photography, they're uniquely capable.

See this example -- a vertical pano shot with a IR-modified a7c.

https://flic.kr/p/2mv9sVc

And this horizontal pano:

https://flic.kr/p/fwi4za

 

[blue_skies]

With current high resolution sensors, a good argument can be made that the shift function is now obsolete. You can get the same effect with a wider angle lens (of which there is now a large and affordable choice), holding it horizontally and then cropping.

Some claim the the tilt fuctionality can equally be replaced by stacking multiple differently focused photos with software. I haven't done that myself (don't want to invest in the top software and the free apps I've tried didn't work well), but have seen very good results achieved by others.

...

You mean pano - multi-shot?

I have tried them, they don't work quite well, in a pano shot you add an extra variable (the FL and viewing angle) that breaks the linearity in a linear WA lens.

Single shots wide angle views corrections are a snap, just use the parallel perspective sliders - in most post-edit software packages.

Correcting a pano-shot is a lot more work, you'll need to work in zones.

Higher (paid for) software lets you use projections, e.g. an (inside) cylinder projection, which does the corrections for you, but it takes a few tries to make this work and leaves things open to more guesswork.

For nature shots, pano's work. For tall buildings, you need to keep the building centered, and preferred in the middle of the frame or the (projection) corrections become messy.

It can be done, but using a single WA lens is much simpler.

 

[4Photos]

See this example -- a vertical pano shot with a IR-modified a7c.

https://flic.kr/p/2mv9sVc

And this horizontal pano:

https://flic.kr/p/fwi4za

Very nice indeed !!!

 

[Rol Lei Nut]

With current high resolution sensors, a good argument can be made that the shift function is now obsolete. You can get the same effect with a wider angle lens (of which there is now a large and affordable choice), holding it horizontally and then cropping.

Some claim the the tilt fuctionality can equally be replaced by stacking multiple differently focused photos with software. I haven't done that myself (don't want to invest in the top software and the free apps I've tried didn't work well), but have seen very good results achieved by others.

...

You mean pano - multi-shot?

No, I mean stacking (multi shot, but with the focusing distance changing in each shot).

It can potentially greatly increase the in-focus area (a bit like tilting does). I would assume that it could also do the opposite, that is increasing the out of focus areas if the images are shot for that purpose.

In stacking, the perspecive and FOV don't change (don't know what happens with lenses having bad focus breathng), while in stitched panos, the FOV is greatly expanded.

I have tried them, they don't work quite well, in a pano shot you add an extra variable (the FL and viewing angle) that breaks the linearity in a linear WA lens.

I've had very good results with stitched panos. One prerequisite, if your image contains subjects at different distances, is to adjust the rotation axis depending on the nodal point of the lens being used (definitely worth looking up if you do panos).

Single shots wide angle views corrections are a snap, just use the parallel perspective sliders - in most post-edit software packages.

Correcting a pano-shot is a lot more work, you'll need to work in zones.

Higher (paid for) software lets you use projections, e.g. an (inside) cylinder projection, which does the corrections for you, but it takes a few tries to make this work and leaves things open to more guesswork.

For nature shots, pano's work. For tall buildings, you need to keep the building centered, and preferred in the middle of the frame or the (projection) corrections become messy.

It can be done, but using a single WA lens is much simpler.

One WA (or more likely, UWA) shot is of course simpler and can cover many situations which previously would have required a shifted lens, but having a setup which allows adjusting the rotation axis really allows for accurate multiple shot panoramas when needed.

 

[Rol Lei Nut]

Thank you all for your responses, you have saved me some $$

Well.... I have the Canon 24mm tilt-shift a Sony a7Riii, and an a7c modified to capture infrared light. I find the lens is very useful for photographing building, and for certain panos.

With buildings or tall topographic features, you can "correct" the perspective distortion you gat with a wide angle lens, but you lose some image quality. (The degree of loss depends on the degree of correction.)

I believe that you are talking about software perspective correction. That is, you shoot a building pointing the lens more or less upwards and then in PP you correct the converging verticals and crop as needed. In that case, as you mention, the greater the correction, the greater the quality loss.

The other approach, which I meant (perhaps unclearly) in my posts, is to use a lens wide enough to capture the entire building while holding the camera perfectly horizontally (though typically in portrait orientation). Then cropping the image as needed (typically removing the foreground occupying about half the image). That means that the quality loss is this case is only reduced resolution, say "only" 21mp in the case of a 42mp sensor (given a good lens)..

The Canon lenses are built like a tank -- heavy, and fat. And while you can hand-hold the 24mm Canon, it's best on a tripod. But if you enjoy architectural photography, they're uniquely capable.

See this example -- a vertical pano shot with a IR-modified a7c.

https://flic.kr/p/2mv9sVc

And this horizontal pano:

https://flic.kr/p/fwi4za

 

[Corelli]

My Samyang (Rokinon) 24mm is VERY sharp, but it does suffer from flare whenever there is a strong light source in the shot. That can be somewhat reduced with your hand or some other shade.

I mostly use the shift effect for buildings, which works great.

I've only used the tilt function to get greater depth of field on some closeup shots. I'm not a fan of the "toy town" effect.

I also have the Laowa 12mm and the MSC (magic shift converter) which gives me a 17 F4 shift lens. It is also quite sharp.

They are lenses I take with me when I know I will be shooting a lot of architecture inside and out, and I have the time to do so.

I have successfully used both lenses handheld.

Rogerjosen did an in-depth comparison with TS vs software and he's convinced the TS isn't worth it. You might want to search for that thread (a year or two ago?).

I will, in any case, definitely keep my Laowa 12mm and MSC, but I might sell the Samyang.

Cheers

 

[Guy Roberts]

The Laowa 12mm and the MSC look interesting.

 

[No account anymore]

Shift for perspective control can be done at post.

Tilt to control the focal plane/depth of focus, is the part that is hard to do at post. Focus stacking might be helpful, but can't fully replace tilt.

 

[trainerKEN]

I have seen some posts here which suggest that the 12-24mm Sony lenses and cropping are a better option, but I have no personal experience of this.

I can speak to this. I back up until the building is level, then crop the foreground and (if necessary) do some skew adjustments when editing in Photoshop.

I did some tests early on with this lens.


1 - original framing


1 - cropped


2 - Original framing


2 - cropped

that's nice on 2-3 stories building... try doing this with a taller building and a UWA just won't do what a T/S lens can . I own the Canon 17mm F4 TSE and will never part from it

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[richj20]

I have seen some posts here which suggest that the 12-24mm Sony lenses and cropping are a better option, but I have no personal experience of this.

I can speak to this. I back up until the building is level, then crop the foreground and (if necessary) do some skew adjustments when editing in Photoshop.

I did some tests early on with this lens.

...

that's nice on 2-3 stories building... try doing this with a taller building and a UWA just won't do what a T/S lens can . I own the Canon 17mm F4 TSE and will never part from it

Here are a couple:











--
Richard
http://www.rsjphoto.net/