Denoiser software for complete morons

[Justin Cider]

Coming off my 'trouble in paradise thread' it has become real clear real quick that to ever find satisfaction with my photos I need to embrace that which up until now I've refused to embrace; denoising software. There was some good content shared in that thread but I felt like it perhaps deserved its own spotlight. So for me and others who were fed a steady diet of lead paint chips as a kid, lay it on me experts. What's the one to use?

Please keep in mind this is a morons guide, and a stubborn moron at that. As such realize that I develop my raw files in Lightroom and I'll never be convinced to use anything else. Also, I'm not looking to obtain a degree to use the software. My tolerance is somewhere around three to five clicks.

Topaz caught my eye of those suggested so far. Mostly because I'm drawn towards impressive websites showing miracle results. Plus they have a sharpening plugin/program that for the same reason makes me tingle in all the right spots.

I'm sure this subject has been hashed out over dozens of threads but I'm looking for the unique twist of not wanting to apply any needed skill to operate them. It's moron approved or bust. Maybe I'll try to find a raw file of a photo to share that is in the ISO 1000-15000 range. If someone happens to have one handy feel free to beat me to it so we can compare apples to apples results.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

Coming off my 'trouble in paradise thread' it has become real clear real quick that to ever find satisfaction with my photos I need to embrace that which up until now I've refused to embrace; denoising software. There was some good content shared in that thread but I felt like it perhaps deserved its own spotlight. So for me and others who were fed a steady diet of lead paint chips as a kid, lay it on me experts. What's the one to use?

Please keep in mind this is a morons guide, and a stubborn moron at that. As such realize that I develop my raw files in Lightroom and I'll never be convinced to use anything else. Also, I'm not looking to obtain a degree to use the software. My tolerance is somewhere around three to five clicks.

Topaz caught my eye of those suggested so far. Mostly because I'm drawn towards impressive websites showing miracle results. Plus they have a sharpening plugin/program that for the same reason makes me tingle in all the right spots.

I'm sure this subject has been hashed out over dozens of threads but I'm looking for the unique twist of not wanting to apply any needed skill to operate them. It's moron approved or bust. Maybe I'll try to find a raw file of a photo to share that is in the ISO 1000-15000 range. If someone happens to have one handy feel free to beat me to it so we can compare apples to apples results.

By all means, post links to a couple of your own RAWs. How those turn out is what matters.

 

[Kaoticphoto]

Download the trial version for dxo pure raw 2.

If you shoot raw, pureraw2 convert your raf in dng (You can batch convert a folder or a series of raf) , demosaicing and cleaning the file, and exporting a dng that you can process in LR

 

[Homo erectus]

I started using DxO Photolab 5 recently and I am super impressed with both it's default noise reduction tool and with it's AI noise reduction, called Deep Prime.

There's a free trial so you can test it for yourself. Also it can work as a plugin for Lightroom. I use it as a stand alone program.

Hope that helps.

 

[biza43]

If your current software has a noise option, start with that. Might work.

 

[Tim van der Leeuw]

I would investigate DxO PureRaw and see how to use that as plugin to LightRoom.

I'm very happy with the noise-reduction it gives myself (using DxO PhotoLabs which has the same noise reduction, but is a standalone editing program).

It works easy, I mostly use the defaults.

With Topaz Denoise, for which I also have a license albeit not for the very latest version, I have always been fiddling a lot more with the options and sliders it has to get a result that I'm Ok with.

Both have a different workflow also: DxO PureRaw has to work on your RAF files. It cannot work on JPEG or TIFF files.

Topaz Denoise works best on TIFF files exported from your RAW editor -- it can work on raw files, but whenever I did that the colours always came out very different than from camera (both with my Fuji and my Canon so it's not even a Fuji specific problem). Perhaps their very latest version does work better on Fuji RAF files and doesn't screw up the colours as much but I'd count on using it at the end of the editing process, not the beginning.

I've recently been watching a number of videos on YouTube from various people who do bird and wildlife photography, often at high ISO due to the nature of what they do.

They all seem to have switched to using DxO PureRaw because it gives them better results (check out for instance Jan Wegener's channel).

Some may then apply Topaz Denoise on the end-result, but it seems many of these bird photographers prefer to start their editing process with DxO PureRaw.

I'd count that as another point towards DxO. ;-)

 

[GMacF]

My moron's query is how does a third party denoise tie in with C1?

I currently enjoy using C1 and find it the most preferable for my RAW Fuji edits. However, a DNG file that has passed through a denoise program is of little use as film sims can no longer be applied in C1 after the fact. Therefore, I would need to do all my editing in C1 THEN run the file through a denoise app - but then it would no longer be a RAF file :-|

**Edit** - I have just seen Tim's post above - does this mean I could do whatever I have to do in C1 then export a TIFF to Topaz (or other s/w of choice)?

 

[Tim van der Leeuw]

My moron's query is how does a third party denoise tie in with C1?

I currently enjoy using C1 and find it the most preferable for my RAW Fuji edits. However, a DNG file that has passed through a denoise program is of little use as film sims can no longer be applied in C1 after the fact. Therefore, I would need to do all my editing in C1 THEN run the file through a denoise app - but then it would no longer be a RAF file :-|

**Edit** - I have just seen Tim's post above - does this mean I could do whatever I have to do in C1 then export a TIFF to Topaz (or other s/w of choice)?

Yes you can pass a TIFF to Topaz Denoise. From C1 you can right-click the image, go to the "Edit With..." menu (not "Open With"), and select to edit with Topaz Denoise.

That will then show a dialog giving you the option to export as TIFF or JPEG and Topaz Denoise will open the TIFF just exported.

After the noise reduction is done, when you close Topaz the result _should_ show up automatically in C1.

(That is broken in the version of Topaz I have but supposedly fixed in later versions. I should renew my license to get those fixes).

The same will not work with DxO PureRaw because of the FilmSim issue which you highlighted, however if you use DxO PhotoLab you may be able to use some of their Fuji "digital film" versions of the Fuji film-sims. They look slightly differently than C1's film sims I believe and I'm not sure if you really also need DxO FilmPack for that... So that would bring up the price even more.

Using Topaz at the end is indeed probably the better option for those who want to be able to apply film simulations!

 

[GMacF]

My moron's query is how does a third party denoise tie in with C1?

I currently enjoy using C1 and find it the most preferable for my RAW Fuji edits. However, a DNG file that has passed through a denoise program is of little use as film sims can no longer be applied in C1 after the fact. Therefore, I would need to do all my editing in C1 THEN run the file through a denoise app - but then it would no longer be a RAF file :-|

**Edit** - I have just seen Tim's post above - does this mean I could do whatever I have to do in C1 then export a TIFF to Topaz (or other s/w of choice)?

Yes you can pass a TIFF to Topaz Denoise. From C1 you can right-click the image, go to the "Edit With..." menu (not "Open With"), and select to edit with Topaz Denoise.

That will then show a dialog giving you the option to export as TIFF or JPEG and Topaz Denoise will open the TIFF just exported.

After the noise reduction is done, when you close Topaz the result _should_ show up automatically in C1.

(That is broken in the version of Topaz I have but supposedly fixed in later versions. I should renew my license to get those fixes).

The same will not work with DxO PureRaw because of the FilmSim issue which you highlighted, however if you use DxO PhotoLab you may be able to use some of their Fuji "digital film" versions of the Fuji film-sims. They look slightly differently than C1's film sims I believe and I'm not sure if you really also need DxO FilmPack for that... So that would bring up the price even more.

Using Topaz at the end is indeed probably the better option for those who want to be able to apply film simulations!

Thanks Tim. Sounds like a plan for sure. Is the Trial a fully fledged version or is it feature limited? I'd certainly be tempted to try it out and I could maybe wait until around Black Friday/Christmas and see if it goes on sale. That said, maybe I just go all in and get the full package including Gigapixel and Sharpen etc

 

[Tim van der Leeuw]

Thanks Tim. Sounds like a plan for sure. Is the Trial a fully fledged version or is it feature limited? I'd certainly be tempted to try it out and I could maybe wait until around Black Friday/Christmas and see if it goes on sale. That said, maybe I just go all in and get the full package including Gigapixel and Sharpen etc

I believe the trial versions are fully fledged and only time-limited.

 

[Morris0]

I started using DxO Photolab 5 recently and I am super impressed with both it's default noise reduction tool and with it's AI noise reduction, called Deep Prime.

There's a free trial so you can test it for yourself. Also it can work as a plugin for Lightroom. I use it as a stand alone program.

Hope that helps.

Deep Prime, the ultimate test of your ability to find things to do while your computer entertains it's self. In the end the results are amazing.

Morris

 

[Morris0]

I would investigate DxO PureRaw and see how to use that as plugin to LightRoom.

I'm very happy with the noise-reduction it gives myself (using DxO PhotoLabs which has the same noise reduction, but is a standalone editing program).

It works easy, I mostly use the defaults.

With Topaz Denoise, for which I also have a license albeit not for the very latest version, I have always been fiddling a lot more with the options and sliders it has to get a result that I'm Ok with.

Both have a different workflow also: DxO PureRaw has to work on your RAF files. It cannot work on JPEG or TIFF files.

Topaz Denoise works best on TIFF files exported from your RAW editor -- it can work on raw files, but whenever I did that the colours always came out very different than from camera (both with my Fuji and my Canon so it's not even a Fuji specific problem). Perhaps their very latest version does work better on Fuji RAF files and doesn't screw up the colours as much but I'd count on using it at the end of the editing process, not the beginning.

I've recently been watching a number of videos on YouTube from various people who do bird and wildlife photography, often at high ISO due to the nature of what they do.

They all seem to have switched to using DxO PureRaw because it gives them better results (check out for instance Jan Wegener's channel).

Some may then apply Topaz Denoise on the end-result, but it seems many of these bird photographers prefer to start their editing process with DxO PureRaw.

I'd count that as another point towards DxO. ;-)

At least in my circles, both DxO products are a last choice as it's so slow and we are dealing with a lot of images. The most popular are Topaz DeNoise in combination with Topaz AI Sharpen. Both can produce artifacts and are best used selectively and most confidently as a plugin. I use both as well as Neat Image Reduce Noise which is my favorite though there are times when DeNoise dose a better job at very high ISO. One think I like about Neat Image is it ability to use either camera profiles or profile each image to produce super results. I work in Photoshop using layers selectively showing the areas of sharpness and areas where I want noise reduction.

Besides the add on software most editors have built-in in tools that can do the job. All of the methods with the possibly exception of DxO reduce noise by blurring unfocused areas though they do this different ways. One approach to addressing noise is selective sharpening which is one of my favorites for lower ISO images as it leaves the personality of the lens and camera sensor alone in the out of focus areas.

Morris

 

[Morris0]

My moron's query is how does a third party denoise tie in with C1?

I currently enjoy using C1 and find it the most preferable for my RAW Fuji edits. However, a DNG file that has passed through a denoise program is of little use as film sims can no longer be applied in C1 after the fact. Therefore, I would need to do all my editing in C1 THEN run the file through a denoise app - but then it would no longer be a RAF file :-|

**Edit** - I have just seen Tim's post above - does this mean I could do whatever I have to do in C1 then export a TIFF to Topaz (or other s/w of choice)?

Yes you can pass a TIFF to Topaz Denoise. From C1 you can right-click the image, go to the "Edit With..." menu (not "Open With"), and select to edit with Topaz Denoise.

That will then show a dialog giving you the option to export as TIFF or JPEG and Topaz Denoise will open the TIFF just exported.

After the noise reduction is done, when you close Topaz the result _should_ show up automatically in C1.

(That is broken in the version of Topaz I have but supposedly fixed in later versions. I should renew my license to get those fixes).

The same will not work with DxO PureRaw because of the FilmSim issue which you highlighted, however if you use DxO PhotoLab you may be able to use some of their Fuji "digital film" versions of the Fuji film-sims. They look slightly differently than C1's film sims I believe and I'm not sure if you really also need DxO FilmPack for that... So that would bring up the price even more.

Using Topaz at the end is indeed probably the better option for those who want to be able to apply film simulations!

DxO PureRaw will produce a DNG that still allows the use of Fuji's film sims in Adobe products. It's an extra step to your workflow yet the results are great.

Using DeNoise can be tricky as it both removes noise and sharpens. The choice of applying it to an image before or after processing is not straight forward. It is one of the reasons I apply it selectively.

Morris

 

[Tim van der Leeuw]

DxO PureRaw will produce a DNG that still allows the use of Fuji's film sims in Adobe products. It's an extra step to your workflow yet the results are great.

In Adobe probably, yes, but in CaptureOne no that won't work! That's a bug in C1 to my knowledge. And GMacF was asking about CaptureOne integration...

Using DeNoise can be tricky as it both removes noise and sharpens. The choice of applying it to an image before or after processing is not straight forward. It is one of the reasons I apply it selectively.

Morris

DeNoise also has a number of toggles and sliders and operating-modes. It can require some tweaking per image to get the best results.

DxO is, in that respect, much simpler.

But it is indeed slow, especially when you have multiple images.

A couple of weeks ago I was waiting for over 3 hours for around 115 images to be processed, including DEEP Prime Noise Reduction.

So, yes, "the art of finding other things to do while your computer works on them"... indeed! :-D

Best to pre-select images to be processed with DxO using some other software such as Lightroom, then batch processing only the selected "keepers" with DxO. (If one wants to use DxO).

For a single image, the time to process can vary between half a minute and 2 minutes on my PC, I believe.

It should get better with faster graphics cards.

 

[michaeladawson]

I think the first question is what software do you currently use for your photo editing? A tool like DxO Deep Prime is excellent but it sort of requires that you switch over and start using DxO as your main software for editing photos.

If you're a Photoshop person then you have many more options. Topaz DeNoise is very good as well. But it will require that you have a good computer with a recent graphics board if you want decent speed out of it. DeNoise can also be made part of a Photoshop action if you are into batch processing. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to turn on automatic detection of denoise level without also turning on automatic sharpening.

I used to use Nik Dfine2 as my standard tool as it works excellently with Adobe batch processing in auto mode.

My real question would be how bad is noise with the X-H2S? I find it hard to believe that you were fine with the noise in your previous Fujifilm cameras and that suddenly the X-H2S is that much worse that it is objectionable. I don't mean to argue the point, however. If you say it's bad I believe you. I'm just surprised, that's all.

 

[Morris0]

As I mentioned earlier, I use multiple methods depending on the image and what I want to render. Here are a few recent images and what I did.

- DeNoise





This ISO 6400 image as brightened a little and then I pulled down the blacks to add contrast and of cause this increases noise. With creative blur, I'm not looking to show detail so I ran DeNoise on the entire frame. Then I sharpened a tiny bit to give the image a bit more pop.

- Neat Image





I created two layers and applied Neat Image to the top layer. The bottom layer was sharpened using AI Sharpen and then I applied a touch of USM to bring out the fine detail. Last I use the eraser tool with a soft brush to reveal the areas I want sharp.

- Selective Sharpening





The first thing that struck me when I opened this file was the way the background was rendered. To preserve the background I created two layers. I chose to leave the top layer alone and sharpened the background layer (bottom layer) as described above. Last I used a small and soft edged brush to revel the sharpened edges of the bird and finished with a wider soft edged brush to revel the rest of the bird.

These are my most common approaches yet there are others

Morris

 

[Morris0]

DxO PureRaw will produce a DNG that still allows the use of Fuji's film sims in Adobe products. It's an extra step to your workflow yet the results are great.

In Adobe probably, yes, but in CaptureOne no that won't work! That's a bug in C1 to my knowledge. And GMacF was asking about CaptureOne integration...

Using DeNoise can be tricky as it both removes noise and sharpens. The choice of applying it to an image before or after processing is not straight forward. It is one of the reasons I apply it selectively.

Morris

DeNoise also has a number of toggles and sliders and operating-modes. It can require some tweaking per image to get the best results.

DxO is, in that respect, much simpler.

But it is indeed slow, especially when you have multiple images.

A couple of weeks ago I was waiting for over 3 hours for around 115 images to be processed, including DEEP Prime Noise Reduction.

So, yes, "the art of finding other things to do while your computer works on them"... indeed! :-D

Best to pre-select images to be processed with DxO using some other software such as Lightroom, then batch processing only the selected "keepers" with DxO. (If one wants to use DxO).

For a single image, the time to process can vary between half a minute and 2 minutes on my PC, I believe.

It should get better with faster graphics cards.

The big advantage of what Tim is suggesting is that with the DxO products, you don't need much in the way of editing skills to get very nice noise reduction without spoiling the detailed areas.

Morris

 

[Doug MacMillan]

Tim brought up a good point that you need to factor in when considering denoising software, especially the AI versions.

I had an older computer when I downloaded the trial version of Topaz DeNoise AI and Sharpen AI. While I was impressed by the results, processing took a long time, 2-4 minutes an image. I went to the Topaz web site and read their hardware recommendations. My computer barely made the minimum requirements.

SInce my computer was 5+ years old, I decided this would be a good excuse to upgrade. AMD and just released their fancy Ryzen CPU and I built a new machine around it. I got plenty of RAM, a video card with plenty of memory, an SSD C: drive and plenty of extra drives for storage.

The new computer made a huge difference. I file that would take a minute to process now only took 5 seconds. They continue to upgrade their software by showing it more examples. This makes the results even better, but it has also made the software run slightly slower, which is all the more reason to make sure your computer is up to the task.

I've not tried DxO so I can't compare ease of use or results. It is true that Topaz DeNoise has sliders, but when you send it a file it automatically adjusts them. Most of the time I just accept the default settings, but it is really handy on tough subjects to be able to tweak the setting to prevent artifacts, etc.

 

[Morris0]

I think the first question is what software do you currently use for your photo editing? A tool like DxO Deep Prime is excellent but it sort of requires that you switch over and start using DxO as your main software for editing photos.

No, you can use DxO to strip RAW from your image and produce a DNG or TIFF that is then processed as always in the software you usually use.

If you're a Photoshop person then you have many more options. Topaz DeNoise is very good as well. But it will require that you have a good computer with a recent graphics board if you want decent speed out of it. DeNoise can also be made part of a Photoshop action if you are into batch processing. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to turn on automatic detection of denoise level without also turning on automatic sharpening.

I used to use Nik Dfine2 as my standard tool as it works excellently with Adobe batch processing in auto mode.

My real question would be how bad is noise with the X-H2S? I find it hard to believe that you were fine with the noise in your previous Fujifilm cameras and that suddenly the X-H2S is that much worse that it is objectionable. I don't mean to argue the point, however. If you say it's bad I believe you. I'm just surprised, that's all.

The noise conversation regarding X-H2s has stated it's similar to that of the X-T4. Not a big deal

Morris

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

I think the first question is what software do you currently use for your photo editing? A tool like DxO Deep Prime is excellent but it sort of requires that you switch over and start using DxO as your main software for editing photos.

No, you can use DxO to strip RAW from your image and produce a DNG or TIFF that is then processed as always in the software you usually use.

No, not in Capture One. they will mostly edit normally, but, unlike Lightroom, in C1 the Fuji simulations are only available with RAFs, not DNGs

If you're a Photoshop person then you have many more options. Topaz DeNoise is very good as well. But it will require that you have a good computer with a recent graphics board if you want decent speed out of it. DeNoise can also be made part of a Photoshop action if you are into batch processing. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to turn on automatic detection of denoise level without also turning on automatic sharpening.

I used to use Nik Dfine2 as my standard tool as it works excellently with Adobe batch processing in auto mode.

My real question would be how bad is noise with the X-H2S? I find it hard to believe that you were fine with the noise in your previous Fujifilm cameras and that suddenly the X-H2S is that much worse that it is objectionable. I don't mean to argue the point, however. If you say it's bad I believe you. I'm just surprised, that's all.

The noise conversation regarding X-H2s has stated it's similar to that of the X-T4. Not a big deal

Morris