Are the phone mfg's pulling our leg again?

[Bob A L]

Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors? First it was 10x optical zoom using 3 fixed focal length lenses, now huge sensors bigger than M43. Here's the size shown in the article if you didn't see it.



Wonder how pocketable it will be? Lens would be pretty long wouldn't it?

 

[Mark S Abeln]

Lens would be pretty long wouldn't it?

One good technique is using folded lenses, like a periscope. The length of the lens extends across the interior of the phone, with mirrors at the front and back redirecting the optical path.

 

[Bob A L]

You are missing the point

 

[sybersitizen]

Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors?

I see this article, but I'm not seeing ^that^:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/07665...ith-brand-new-1-type-sony-imx989-image-sensor

Who's pulling our leg where?

 

[alcelc]

It has a 2.7x crop factor, vs 2x of M43...

Any thing new on this 1" sensor vs the other 1" sensor, could be on higher resolution?

 

[Ainisru]

It has a 2.7x crop factor, vs 2x of M43...

Any thing new on this 1" sensor vs the other 1" sensor, could be on higher resolution?

Just to add on, Sony already has a 1" sensor on their top line phone- but the full sensor not being used.

So, it is not outlandish to think that Xiaomi may use the full sensor on their new phone.

 

[FrancoD]

"Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors? First it was 10x optical zoom using 3 fixed focal length lenses, now huge sensors bigger than M43. Here's the size shown in the article if you didn't see it."

Maybe it's you...



BTW, how did you come to those two points in bold ? I don't see anything that would suggest that in the DPReview article.

 

[Tom_N]

Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors?

I see this article, but I'm not seeing ^that^:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/07665...ith-brand-new-1-type-sony-imx989-image-sensor

Who's pulling our leg where?

"It's a 1"-type sensor, measuring 13.2 x 8.8 mm, giving a crop factor of 2.72, relative to full-frame." It has a 3:2 aspect ratio. A Micro Four-Thirds sensor measures 17.3 x 13.0 mm, and has a 4:3 aspect ratio.

So a Micro Four-Thirds sensor is about 31% wider and 48% taller, with roughly a 36% larger diagonal, and 1.94x the total area.

 

[sybersitizen]

Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors?

I see this article, but I'm not seeing ^that^:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/07665...ith-brand-new-1-type-sony-imx989-image-sensor

Who's pulling our leg where?

"It's a 1"-type sensor, measuring 13.2 x 8.8 mm, giving a crop factor of 2.72, relative to full-frame." It has a 3:2 aspect ratio. A Micro Four-Thirds sensor measures 17.3 x 13.0 mm, and has a 4:3 aspect ratio.

So a Micro Four-Thirds sensor is about 31% wider and 48% taller, with roughly a 36% larger diagonal, and 1.94x the total area.

Yes, I know what a 1" sensor is and I know what a M43 sensor is.

What I said is that I'm not seeing anything about '12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors'.

Are we to assume that the OP doesn't understand the meaning of the 1" sensor label? Or is pretending not to understand it?

Again: Who's pulling our leg where?

 

[Joseph S Wisniewski]

Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors? First it was 10x optical zoom using 3 fixed focal length lenses,

Actually, several phones have optical zoom on at least one of their three or four cameras. Typically a periscope arrangement: the sensor is mounted perpendicular to the camera's main board and a 45degree mirror or prism diverts the telephoto lens forward.

My Samsung S21 Ultra 5G has four cameras and two of them have optical zooms: 3X f2.4 and 10x f4.9. It also has digital zoom to go smoothly between the fixed lens cameras, the areas where the zooms don't overlap, and beyond the limit of the 10x zoom. All in all, it's supposedly a 100x zoom.

now huge sensors bigger than M43.

No, it's not. 1" is 13.2x8.8 mm, 4/3" is 17.30x13.0mm. It's important that the aspect ratio isn't 4:3, because the 3:2 aspect is less tall than a 4:3 would have been.

Since the sensor is sitting sideways in the camera, the camera "thickness" is about 1mm more than that 8.8mm height of the sensor, so about 10mm. Add another mm for the phone's display and a mm for the front element of the lens and/or window after the mirror or prism, and the camera thickness at the camera bulge is going to be about...

12mm

It honestly wouldn't feel much different than my Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G, which is 11mm at the camera bulge. The largest sensor in the four rear cameras is 1.33", which is 7.2mm tall, so that particular design adds 3.8mm to the sensor height. With that same construction, an 8.8mm tall 1" sensor would give the cameras a 12.6mm sensor bulge, again not that bad.

Here's the size shown in the article if you didn't see it.

Those don't show four thirds.

And the proportions in that picture are (to put it politely) not accurate: they show the 1" as about twice the height of the 1.33", when in reality it's only 22% taller.

So, literally, the only person "pulling" anyone's "leg" is the person who put together that naff picture.

Wonder how pocketable it will be?

Very.

Lens would be pretty long wouldn't it?

No.

--
Christine Fleischer 1947-2014.
My soulmate. There are no other words.
-----
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.
Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.
----
Ciao! Joseph
www.swissarmyfork.com

 

[Joseph S Wisniewski]

Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors? First it was 10x optical zoom using 3 fixed focal length lenses,

No, it's optical zoom using zoom lenses. Here's an incomplete list of actual optical zoom cameras.

• Sony Xperia 1V: 3 fixed lens cameras, 1 1.5x optical zoom.
• Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra 5G: 2 fixed lens cameras, 1 3x zoom, 1 10x zoom. Other S22 family members only have the 1 zoom camera, the 3x. Samsung has been making zoom cameras since the infamous "S4 zoom" some 13 years ago.
• Samsung Z-Fold 3: 2 fixed, 1 2x zoom camera.
• iPhone 13 Pro Max: 2 fixed lens cameras, 1 3x optical zoom camera.
• iQ00 9 pro: 2 fixed lens cameras, 1 2.5x optical zoom camera.
• Vivo X70: 3 fixed lens cameras, 1 5x optical zoom camera.

now huge sensors bigger than M43. Here's the size shown in the article if you didn't see it.



Wonder how pocketable it will be? Lens would be pretty long wouldn't it?

--
Christine Fleischer 1947-2014.
My soulmate. There are no other words.
-----
Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008.
Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed.
----
Ciao! Joseph
www.swissarmyfork.com

 

[Bob A L]

OK, a bit more clarification. Their picture shows the comparison of their sensors and clearly shows the diagonal dimension of the 1" sensor as 1". The m43 sensor is only 22.3mm diagonally. The normal 1" sensor is only 13.3mm wide, so it's pretty hard to achieve a 1" diagonal measurement on that one. And on the optical zoom this has been discussed several times. Possibly some more recent phones may have some optical zoom lenses, but my iphone 13 pro for instance only has 3 fixed focal length lenses (or actually 3 separate cameras) and achieves any zoom between widest to longest lenses by digitally manipulating the image data, not optically. Photographic standard nomenclature has always required the lens to physically zoom continuously between focal lengths to be considered optically zooming.

 

[Paul Pasco]

Did you see the release article in dpr news about the new Xiaomi phone with the huge sensor 12.8% wider on the diagonal than M43 sensors? First it was 10x optical zoom using 3 fixed focal length lenses, now huge sensors bigger than M43. Here's the size shown in the article if you didn't see it.



Wonder how pocketable it will be? Lens would be pretty long wouldn't it?

The 1” sensor is not larger than the m4/3 sensor at all, quite the opposite. Go look up a chart that compares sensor size.

--
Regards, Paul
Lili's Dad
WSSA Member #450

 

[Bob A L]

Because the M43 sensor is 22.5 mm diagonally, and this photo shows their sensor being 25.4 (1") diagonally. With my calculator 25.4 is 1.128 times 22.5.

 

[Tom_N]

Because the M43 sensor is 22.5 mm diagonally, and this photo shows their sensor being 25.4 (1") diagonally. With my calculator 25.4 is 1.128 times 22.5.

That sensor does not have a 1" (25.4 mm) diagonal measurement.

Those names like 1/1.65", 1.56", 1/1.8", and 1" do not refer to the diagonal size of the sensor itself. These names come from old, "technologically obsolete" video tubes … where the measurement refers to the size of the enclosing glass tube, not the smaller size of the active area within. Digital camera specifications still use the obsolete tube names in referring to a set of actual, smaller, sensor sizes.

Even the name "Four Thirds" supposedly relates to this old, archaic convention – not to the 4:3 aspect ratio of Four Thirds and Micro Four Thirds sensors.

 

[Bob A L]

Now we are gaining on it. Exactly what I meant. Their photo clearly is marked up showing the diagonal of the sensor as 1". No way it can be a 1" sensor as we know it in terms of camera sensors which is 15.7 mm diagonal measurement.

 

[Tom_N]

Now we are gaining on it. Exactly what I meant. Their photo clearly is marked up showing the diagonal of the sensor as 1". No way it can be a 1" sensor as we know it in terms of camera sensors which is 15.7 mm diagonal measurement.

Why do you think it cannot be a 1"-type sensor? There have been 1"-type sensors in a few smartphones before – although to the best of my knowledge, none of them used the full sensor area (they just let parts of their expensive sensors go to waste).

https://www.ubergizmo.com/2022/06/sony-imx989-a-gigantic-smartphone-camera-sensor/

https://www.cined.com/the-truth-about-1-inch-sensors-they-are-smaller-than-you-might-think/

 

[Gam3r01]

Now we are gaining on it. Exactly what I meant. Their photo clearly is marked up showing the diagonal of the sensor as 1". No way it can be a 1" sensor as we know it in terms of camera sensors which is 15.7 mm diagonal measurement.

You are overthinking a simple mistake made by their marketing department.

Whoever made the image was told to label each sensor with their respective sizes, someone made a mistake and thought that was measured diagonally and just put it in the middle like you would with a TV ad.

Thats all.

Its a 1" sensor, however the standard is for measuring them.

New article posted this morning: https://www.dpreview.com/news/73651...flagship-device-new-50-3mp-1-type-sony-sensor

 

[Bob A L]

Because a 1" sensor as used in cameras is only 15.7mm. The photo clearly is marked up per the standard protocol (dimension in center with lines angling to opposite corners) for showing diagonal measurement showing that diagonal measurement as 1" Actually all of the diagonal measurements shown in their photo are wrong, but only the 1" one is being raved about in this article.

 

[Bob A L]

You may well be right, probably done by the same folks that kept telling us they had optical zoom. Done by people that have no idea what's going on, but then not scrutinizing this info and pumping it out to the masses, many of which do not know which is right or wrong, but will believe what the manufacturers keep feeding them. Likely most purchasers don't have an idea what size the sensor actually is outside of having this data furnished to them that says this phone has a really big sensor that is 1" corner to corner measurement - wow, this is huge. You and I understand how small this sensor actually is, but ask aunt Susan to look at this and tell you how big the sensor is.