40Art is considered best of the best - why no comparison to the Z-lenses?

melzrd

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Hey folks,

just out of curiosity: the 40Art is considered the best of the Arts, better than 35 and 50. So why these get a comparison to the Zs, when the 40 makes as much sense - especially to the also humongous 50/1.2s?!

Is there anyone who can share comparisons between these lenses with the 40Art or has used them all in the past?

Cheers from germany

Daniel
 
Hey folks,

just out of curiosity: the 40Art is considered the best of the Arts, better than 35 and 50. So why these get a comparison to the Zs, when the 40 makes as much sense - especially to the also humongous 50/1.2s?!

Is there anyone who can share comparisons between these lenses with the 40Art or has used them all in the past?

Cheers from germany

Daniel
I think I'll crack out some popcorn on this one.
 
I’d be interested in a comparison with the new Voigtländer Apo-Lanthar 50/2.
 
Tried the 40 twice (on a Z).

Personally like the Z 50 1.2 a lot more.
 
Tried the 40 twice (on a Z).

Personally like the Z 50 1.2 a lot more.
What do you mean by "tried" - just a couple of test-pictures or a complete wedding with it? And what did you like more about the Z? In-depth is welcome :-P
 
Deal on the 40 1.4 ART in Canada now. $799 down from $1799. 50 1.2Z $2799

That's a real good price. I hope by checking it out it doesn't cost me $800 +
 
Tried the 40 twice (on a Z).

Personally like the Z 50 1.2 a lot more.
What do you mean by "tried" - just a couple of test-pictures or a complete wedding with it? And what did you like more about the Z? In-depth is welcome :-P
I can tell you what I like about the 50 1.2, despite its size: it's the subject isolation and creamy background at f1.2 for people shots. I also like the f1.2 for occasional very low light shots.

With the same framing, a 40 1.4 has a DoF equivalent to f1.75 on a 50mm. So much the same as the smaller 50 1.8.

A large 40 1.4 is not a particular spec that appeals to me. 40 is ok as a sort-of compromise travel/street focal length; I have the little Z40 f2.0 for that.

If I wanted a fast lens wider than 50mm, I think a 28 1.2 would be ideal.

The Zs are so much nicer than my previous F lenses. I understand the Sigma 40 is the champion for edge sharpness, but I have no application where that would make a difference relative to the Zs which are 90% or 95% of the way there.

But of course I know there are people who swear by the 40 as the best FX ever, including some super knowledgeable posters here whose opinions I respect

For example - anothermike, https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65916455
 
Deal on the 40 1.4 ART in Canada now. $799 down from $1799. 50 1.2Z $2799

That's a real good price. I hope by checking it out it doesn't cost me $800 +
Do it #darthsidiousmeme

No honestly: I paid roundabout 1000€ for the 40 and while I wouldve loved to save 250€, I do not regret it at all. It's a really, really, really good lens.
 
Tried the 40 twice (on a Z).

Personally like the Z 50 1.2 a lot more.
What do you mean by "tried" - just a couple of test-pictures or a complete wedding with it? And what did you like more about the Z? In-depth is welcome :-P
I can tell you what I like about the 50 1.2, despite its size: it's the subject isolation and creamy background at f1.2 for people shots. I also like the f1.2 for occasional very low light shots
With the same framing, a 40 1.4 has a DoF equivalent to f1.75 on a 50mm. So much the same as the smaller 50 1.8.
Agreed, that's why I own the 50mm 1.8S. Third party adapted lenses have no appeal to me.
A large 40 1.4 is not a particular spec that appeals to me. 40 is ok as a sort-of compromise travel/street focal length; I have the little Z40 f2.0 for that.

If I wanted a fast lens wider than 50mm, I think a 28 1.2 would be ideal.
The Zs are so much nicer than my previous F lenses. I understand the Sigma 40 is the champion for edge sharpness, but I have no application where that would make a difference relative to the Zs which are 90% or 95% of the way there.
Why does anyone look at the edge sharpness of a fast lens wide open anyway? The reason these lenses are bought is to shoot wide open for dreamy OOF transitions. LOL :)
But of course I know there are people who swear by the 40 as the best FX ever, including some super knowledgeable posters here whose opinions I respect

For example - anothermike, https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65916455
 
The most popular wide angle prime lens has been the 35mm for the past 70 years. With the manual focus rangefinder cameras the wider lenses were advantageous but with autofocusing DSLR cameras this was no longer the case.

Add in the tremendous advances in computer applications for lens optics designs and zoom lens can be as sharp as many prime lenses. My Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8 when I bought it in 2008 was as sharp as any 14mm, 18mm, 20mm, or 24mm prime lens from Nikon or Canon.

The advantages of f/1.4 maximum apertures with prime lenses was with more light for better autofocus performance and the ability to use faster shutter speeds with ISO/ASA 160 and slower film emulsions. Tri-X was the fastest and it was a B&W film and provided ASA 400 which was the best one could get.

F/2.8 apertures have been more than adequate for DSLR cameras produced in the past 15 years and even f/4 ones work in most low light situations with current digital cameras.
 
The advantages of f/1.4 maximum apertures with prime lenses was with more light for better autofocus performance and the ability to use faster shutter speeds with ISO/ASA 160 and slower film emulsions. Tri-X was the fastest and it was a B&W film and provided ASA 400 which was the best one could get.
Rubbish!

I remember using AGFA Chrome 1000 RS (a colour slide film) in the 1980's.

This article lists several film stocks rated at ISO 1000 or even faster:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_discontinued_photographic_films
 
Where are you seeing the 40mm signs for $799 in Canada? I can only see $999 .
Sorry, my mistake. Googled it quickly and looked at the "in red" price. Didn't realize it said "save $799", not $799 as the price.
 
The advantages of f/1.4 maximum apertures with prime lenses was with more light for better autofocus performance and the ability to use faster shutter speeds with ISO/ASA 160 and slower film emulsions. Tri-X was the fastest and it was a B&W film and provided ASA 400 which was the best one could get.
Rubbish!

I remember using AGFA Chrome 1000 RS (a colour slide film) in the 1980's.

This article lists several film stocks rated at ISO 1000 or even faster:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_discontinued_photographic_films
It's also rubbish for the simple fact you can get shallower dof and/or lower your ISO with a fast prime. You could in the film days and you still can now :)
 
Tried the 40 twice (on a Z).

Personally like the Z 50 1.2 a lot more.
What do you mean by "tried" - just a couple of test-pictures or a complete wedding with it? And what did you like more about the Z? In-depth is welcome :-P
Rented the 40 and used it for two days. Mostly people. Second time was for half a day from a partner. I would not do an assignment with an untested item. What a weird idea.

The image quality of the 40 is ok. Having it on the FTZ is somewhat from heave and clunky. Also 40 is a bit too short for my taste.

The 50 is not vastly longer - but better for me. The 50 is totally usable full open at 1.2 and give really, really nice photos for me.

Not sure if that is in-depth enough for you.
 
The advantages of f/1.4 maximum apertures with prime lenses was with more light for better autofocus performance and the ability to use faster shutter speeds with ISO/ASA 160 and slower film emulsions. Tri-X was the fastest and it was a B&W film and provided ASA 400 which was the best one could get.

F/2.8 apertures have been more than adequate for DSLR cameras produced in the past 15 years and even f/4 ones work in most low light situations with current digital cameras.
All good points, and for still subjects I agree. I could live with f2.8-f4 with the good IBIS we have on the Zs.

But people indoors in dim lighting & non-flash? Kid's face lit by candles on a cake?Outdoors at night? Fireworks? High ISO performance hasn't improved much since the D3S in 2009. Fast primes are still desirable and useful today, to avoid high ISO noise which (IMHO) is worst when you most need high ISO - in people's faces and hair and shadowy backgrounds.

Quite separately, even if there were a physics-defying noiseless sensor, I'd still want the f1.2 of my 50 for background blur and subject isolation. It's easier with longer focal lengths, but for 24-50mm, the look of a very large aperture is really nice; f2.8 or f4 doesn't do it.
 
Why does anyone look at the edge sharpness of a fast lens wide open anyway? The reason these lenses are bought is to shoot wide open for dreamy OOF transitions. LOL :)
I don't know anything about astrophotography, but I think that's one use case where the Sigma 40 Art really shines and edge sharpness (and coma, LoCa etc) are important, and hence why some users rave about the 40 1.4
 
Tried the 40 twice (on a Z).

Personally like the Z 50 1.2 a lot more.
What do you mean by "tried" - just a couple of test-pictures or a complete wedding with it? And what did you like more about the Z? In-depth is welcome :-P
Rented the 40 and used it for two days. Mostly people. Second time was for half a day from a partner. I would not do an assignment with an untested item. What a weird idea.

The image quality of the 40 is ok. Having it on the FTZ is somewhat from heave and clunky. Also 40 is a bit too short for my taste.

The 50 is not vastly longer - but better for me. The 50 is totally usable full open at 1.2 and give really, really nice photos for me.

Not sure if that is in-depth enough for you.
I just wanted to point out the two extremes on "I tried it" :-D But I like your reaction to it.

I find it odd that you consider the 40s IQ just "ok", when its said to be one of the best corrected lenses out there, even the bokeh is said to be extraordinary. The 40 is as well fully usable at 1.4. - to a point where I cannot remember a time, when I stopped down at all...

If its not your focal length, thats a super subjective thing, and I'd like to keep it out of the discussion here :)
 
Hey folks,

just out of curiosity: the 40Art is considered the best of the Arts, better than 35 and 50. So why these get a comparison to the Zs, when the 40 makes as much sense - especially to the also humongous 50/1.2s?!

Is there anyone who can share comparisons between these lenses with the 40Art or has used them all in the past?

Cheers from germany

Daniel
I've owned them both and used both extensively for a variety of application. Very different lenses. The 50 1.2 is a very versatile lens. The art has limited applications. The biggest difference you'd find is that the 40mm has really unreliable AF. It's almost unusable for fast moving subjects. I've shot the 50 1.2 at 1.2 for mountain bikers and runners blowing past me and had it nail focus enough to get usable images. The 40mm is better for astro, but I wasn't blown away by it like many are. I found the 85mm and 105mm ARTs to be better across the frame, although those both have some fringing the 40mm doesn't.
 
The 40 art, a reference lens for sure, is still a 40mm lens. It's not really a 35, and it's not really a 50. I find it nearly perfect for full length studio work of dancers, and optically it is as good as it gets.

It's performance characteristics are that it's quite sharp wide open, with essentially no field curvature and no astigmatism and that right there means it's a wonderful lens for those shooting astro, or even at stopped down apertures, who want a flat field and no astigmatism - remember that both field curvature and astigmatism (which are of course related) do NOT improve as you stop down. There is no other lens anywhere near this focal length that is as even in performance across the frame - and for some things, that's really important.

At the same time, there are other really good lenses that might approach what the 40 art does well, even if not quite matching/beatint it, but do something *else* better. As an example, even as a 40 art owner, I'm thinking strongly about the 50/1.2S in Z mount. Not because I want to have a battle between the lenses, but rather because the character of the lenses at the early apertures is DIFFERENT. Note carefully I did not say "better", I said different. The 40 art has fairly rapid falloff in terms of OOF transition and decent bokeh. The 50/1.2S seems to have a slower transition to OOF and perhaps better bokeh. One lens thus might excel where the other doesn't, and vice versa. It's not always just as simple as "lens a is absolutely better than lens b".

Note also that you pay for the 40 arts optical performance - it's huge and heavy, and I can't even begin to imagine that thing hanging on an FTX adapter. It lives on my D850 for studio work. For the Z bodies, I'm likely to want to deal with a native lens.
 

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