Official OM system camera announcement on Feb 15

[John Koch]

OM will unveil a very good camera, surely. It will introduce some new features and improve on old features. It will be the best of its dynastic line.

But ... how many people will spend $2,500 or more for a new body if their existing gear is still satisfactory or if sale of their older model will fetch less than $700? Some loyalists, whether well-to-do or afflicted with GAS, might act.

However, these days, it is difficult for a manufacturer to expect mass sales of any dedicated camera product, whatever the fancy specs, for several reasons:

1. If the entry-price must include lenses too, the cost can be double or triple;
2. People who already own m43 lenses may be happy with their existing camera bodies, whose features already match or exceed needs or skill requirements;
3. To market the new body at a low price, and incur a loss, is unlikely to be recouped by sale of lenses or other accessories, in this saturated "mature" market;
4. The wider public, whatever its wallet, has ceased to pay any more attention to dedicated cameras than it does to fedora hats or ladies' gloves;
5. No matter the WOW promised by gear spec or glamorous unveilings, with VIP reviewers, much of that spec will require exceptional skills or special situations;
6. The (always unmentionable) elephant in the room, already in most people's pockets, which is very versatile, offers apps galore, and whose images or video can be shared almost immediately and effortlessly.

Thus, OM's strategy will have to cater to loyalists, already vested in the system, and wager that enough of them will pay a high enough price to yield a real return on investment. OM cannot operate as a charity or NPO.

OM is not alone with this predicament. The elephant has stomped out most of the former green pastures, while at the same time greatly expanding the universe of image-capturing.

 

[Skeeterbytes]

The most obvious market are those who own the 150-400, presuming the new body does new tricks with that lens. I'll be alongside them even if I don't own the super zoom, to see what it does with the other Pro teles.

Is it a first generation for new tech and features that eventually trickle down into other cameras in the line? Impossible to know, but E-M5 eventually got PDAF and E-M1iii got HHHR, Live ND, and My Menu, so it does happen.

Cheers,

Rick

 

[James Stirling]

Oh surely not …. OMDS updates the GM5?

And a GX8 2 pretty please We picked the wrong cameras to love Tom

I would indeed have picked a GX8 if only it had a tilt lcd. The GX9 suits me fine as I am ok with field sequential evf and the absolute physical size is not an issue with me. All that I need is something to frame and check focus quickly. Even the GM5 evf copes with this limited need quite well.

But we have to agree that one of the beauties of M4/3 was the breadth of scope (physical size / type) of camera bodies that have been on offer.

Even the lack of a direct update to the GX8 is ok as long as its user is happy with the images it makes.

I am still happy enough with the stills as really the differences over time of the various 20mp sensors is not huge. I would like better IBIS for video and some of the pixel shift trickery, I have not really seen anything since that caught my eye, I bought and tried the G9 , despite using Panasonic m43 for over a decade something just did not click.

Ditto the GM5 - I am pretty happy as a pig in its mud pool with the GM5 and only would like to think that it has not been completely abandoned so other can have them as well. But if it goes no further then (shrug) I made sure that I had a few GM5 bodies whilst the going was still good. If the image they made before were good enough for my purpose then - they are still just as good enough for purpose today.

When you look at some of the ebay sales for GM5 they hold their value better than just about any other m43 camera. So you are not alone

By making, testing market, abandoning and moving on to another marketing exercise at least the trail of camera body types gets extended and the smartest of us can buy the type that excites us and simply keep it until it breaks or dies of neglect.

In reality making regular updates of basically the same things with a makeover tends to have us serially buying updates that, more often than not, we really don’t need.

That's true , despite not shooting anything that merits its abilities , I almost went for the Z9 . After some reconsidering , came to my sense for me it would be a waste of money. The spare cash is now going towards a sun house { well rain shield at least }

That is what eventually cheesed me off about the dslr as a type.

Despite some of the often hyperbolic claims to the contrary the difference from one sensor gen to the next is often minimal. Given Sony makes all the best sensors in every format that applies across the board.

 

[James Stirling]

I could not stand the excitement of big FLOP.

I think we sometimes inflict that on our selves by having wildly high expectations, often time not promised us buy the maker. Hard to compete with our perfect vision of the camera we as individuals want

As sung by Paul Simon:

If you took all the girls I knew when I was single
And brought 'em all together for one night
I know they'd never match my sweet imagination
Everything looks worse in black and white

Paul knows !

 

[James Stirling]

I could not stand the excitement of big FLOP.

I think you know what is already coming mate Same here. I might take a couple of weeks off from this forum. Ha.

All the best over the ditch and the hype, oh the hype.

Danny.

It's not just us guys , some women get upset with a big flop

 

[James Stirling]

I doubt about such iso improvement, maybe with some multishot cases it’s possible, but in normal cases...

I agree there is zero chance of a genuine 2 stop improvement in sensor performance . As you suggest most likely some multi-shot feature

Between the 2012 E-M5 and the E-M1 III it is just about 1 stop

43rumors populated with e-m1x also rumors about no blackout, best Evf and a9 level Af, we all know what it really has.

--
Jim Stirling:
It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true” Russell
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[gary0319]

I doubt about such iso improvement, maybe with some multishot cases it’s possible, but in normal cases...

I agree there is zero chance of a genuine 2 stop improvement in sensor performance . As you suggest most likely some multi-shot feature

Between the 2012 E-M5 and the E-M1 III it is just about 1 stop

43rumors populated with e-m1x also rumors about no blackout, best Evf and a9 level Af, we all know what it really has.

I have no idea what impact the new Quad Bayer, BSI, Stacked Sony sensor, and presumably a new TruPic engine, will have on these “old school” sensor comparisons, but it would seem that it is kind of useless to base any prognostications on what was past performance.

 

[nzmacro]

Link here: https://omds.idloom.events/omsystem

Feb 15 ... just enough time to fill a room with roses on Feb 14 before pre-ordering a $2500 camera. Extreme danger, small chance of success ... I'm in!

Good luck boys!

 

[faunagraphy]

Link here: https://omds.idloom.events/omsystem

Feb 15 ... just enough time to fill a room with roses on Feb 14 before pre-ordering a $2500 camera. Extreme danger, small chance of success ... I'm in!

Good luck boys!

Love it sounds very familiar

All the best and roses are a good choice.

Danny.

Might throw in some chocolates and a few balloons for good measure. Can't take any chances on the Special Day ... and by that I mean Feb 15.

--
Wildlife photography in central and western India, and the Pacific Northwest. Mostly Micro Four Thirds with some Nikon F.

 

[drmarkf]

Yes, Scott’s no longer an Olympus Visionary, although he still uses some Oly gear. I think mainly because of his increasing physical limitations he’s now largely using phones.

 

[Tom Caldwell]

I think that there is a sweet price for something like the GM5 - the market liked it but just would not buy it (or the GM1) at launch price. But if Panasonic could keep it simple and trim their margins somewhat they could probably sell a a continuing stream at AUD$600-900 (maybe) as we would pay a bit more if they were new and updated tot he 20mp sensor.

This would convert to about US$400-600 roughly and from recent chat on the forum this would equate to something similar in GBP. (No pound sign on my keyboard).

In other words - keep it simple and without conveniences but make it the same size as the original and build it to the same lasting high standards of the present models.

I had a vision of the GM series being a bit like the Model-T Ford in the market place - simple, rugged and quite capable without any frills. Same thing for years and years and only internal updates of sensor and firmware as possible as a refresher. No bling.

Keep the same basics and the R&D costs low. Don’t try and blitz the market but it would be a handy continuing niche of a camera type that few other companies could emulate and fewer might try to compete with.

They might do some internal cost cutting simplification by making on-board improvements to make build even more modular.

An ideal companion to a larger M4/3 body that could keep pace with the larger bodies and use all of our lenses. Despite its diminutive size it can use larger lenses even if some might prefer a larger lump of camera in their hands.

They could not charge more as existing GM5 users might look, salivate, count their bawbees and pass. Deciding that the the GM5 in their hand was still good enough.

They could not add the fandangoes such as tilting screens, etc as it would spoil the entire concept. They could not add such things as fast video or IBIS as the heat and increased battery size could not be accommodated inside such a small body.

In the end it is a huge ask and it is most likely to go unanswered.

On the case of sun-rooms and passing through the end of our high-summer with Mr Mercury bouncing off 30C days - things would be going swimmingly except for the second wettest summer for quite a long while. Overnights being a nice “air-conditioned” 20C.

The main issue is that 30C is hot but not unendurably so like 40C+ Which is happening in some places like Perth (Western Australia) at the moment, but combined with the present humidity after a whole week of rain it is a bit enervating to work outside. But I am just saying, not complaining, or Aussie-bragging, as it is nice to see a full head of lush green grass that needs cutting (literally) twice a week. Better than a frantic dragging around of sprinklers trying to ward off a summer dust bowl. Lush green lawn looks better.

Sun rooms are not really necessary but big wide verandahs with nice sea breezes are cooler

 

[James Stirling]

I doubt about such iso improvement, maybe with some multishot cases it’s possible, but in normal cases...

I agree there is zero chance of a genuine 2 stop improvement in sensor performance . As you suggest most likely some multi-shot feature

Between the 2012 E-M5 and the E-M1 III it is just about 1 stop

43rumors populated with e-m1x also rumors about no blackout, best Evf and a9 level Af, we all know what it really has.

I have no idea what impact the new Quad Bayer, BSI, Stacked Sony sensor, and presumably a new TruPic engine, will have on these “old school” sensor comparisons, but it would seem that it is kind of useless to base any prognostications on what was past performance.

There has been no generational two stop jump in sensor performance ever in any format. If Sony had the technology to do that it would be unlikely m43 would be the first beneficiaries . It seems reasonable to base predictions on what already exists rather than fantasy . I

If there is a two stop difference it will be down to multi image shooting as there is no current technology that would allow for a genuine two stop jump in noise

--
Jim Stirling:
It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true” Russell
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[gary0319]

I doubt about such iso improvement, maybe with some multishot cases it’s possible, but in normal cases...

I agree there is zero chance of a genuine 2 stop improvement in sensor performance . As you suggest most likely some multi-shot feature

Between the 2012 E-M5 and the E-M1 III it is just about 1 stop

43rumors populated with e-m1x also rumors about no blackout, best Evf and a9 level Af, we all know what it really has.

I have no idea what impact the new Quad Bayer, BSI, Stacked Sony sensor, and presumably a new TruPic engine, will have on these “old school” sensor comparisons, but it would seem that it is kind of useless to base any prognostications on what was past performance.

There has been no generational two stop jump in sensor performance ever in any format. If Sony had the technology to do that it would be unlikely m43 would be the first beneficiaries . It seems reasonable to base predictions on what already exists rather than fantasy . I

If there is a two stop difference it will be down to multi image shooting as there is no current technology that would allow for a genuine two stop jump in noise

OK, you may be right, but so what if it involves multiple shots, but the result is the same. HHHR involves multiple shots and gives a 50mp raw file. Sure, processing is slow maybe a speedier readout and better processor would mitigate some of that.

I'm going to assume that my iphone does some multi-image as a matter of routine, I don't really care if the results are good. I don't know, but I suspect that IQ comparisons between smart phones (and even ILCs) are not done with the multi-shot processing of the phone disabled.

Maybe this is the future and we have to adjust to it.

 

[victorav]

I doubt about such iso improvement, maybe with some multishot cases it’s possible, but in normal cases...

I agree there is zero chance of a genuine 2 stop improvement in sensor performance . As you suggest most likely some multi-shot feature

Between the 2012 E-M5 and the E-M1 III it is just about 1 stop

43rumors populated with e-m1x also rumors about no blackout, best Evf and a9 level Af, we all know what it really has.

I have no idea what impact the new Quad Bayer, BSI, Stacked Sony sensor, and presumably a new TruPic engine, will have on these “old school” sensor comparisons, but it would seem that it is kind of useless to base any prognostications on what was past performance.

There has been no generational two stop jump in sensor performance ever in any format. If Sony had the technology to do that it would be unlikely m43 would be the first beneficiaries . It seems reasonable to base predictions on what already exists rather than fantasy . I

If there is a two stop difference it will be down to multi image shooting as there is no current technology that would allow for a genuine two stop jump in noise

OK, you may be right, but so what if it involves multiple shots, but the result is the same. HHHR involves multiple shots and gives a 50mp raw file. Sure, processing is slow maybe a speedier readout and better processor would mitigate some of that.

I'm going to assume that my iphone does some multi-image as a matter of routine, I don't really care if the results are good. I don't know, but I suspect that IQ comparisons between smart phones (and even ILCs) are not done with the multi-shot processing of the phone disabled.

Maybe this is the future and we have to adjust to it.

I think dpr did a video about phone multishot.

 

[Mark Ransom]

There has been no generational two stop jump in sensor performance ever in any format. If Sony had the technology to do that it would be unlikely m43 would be the first beneficiaries . It seems reasonable to base predictions on what already exists rather than fantasy . I

If there is a two stop difference it will be down to multi image shooting as there is no current technology that would allow for a genuine two stop jump in noise

The majority of noise today doesn't come from the sensor, it comes from shot noise which is a statistical property of the light itself. The only way to lower it is to get more light, by bigger sensor or longer exposure or multiple exposure or whatever.

Don't pin your hopes on magic sensor technology, it isn't going to happen. WOW or not.

 

[James Stirling]

I think that there is a sweet price for something like the GM5 - the market liked it but just would not buy it (or the GM1) at launch price. But if Panasonic could keep it simple and trim their margins somewhat they could probably sell a a continuing stream at AUD$600-900 (maybe) as we would pay a bit more if they were new and updated tot he 20mp sensor.

This would convert to about US$400-600 roughly and from recent chat on the forum this would equate to something similar in GBP. (No pound sign on my keyboard).

In other words - keep it simple and without conveniences but make it the same size as the original and build it to the same lasting high standards of the present models.

I had a vision of the GM series being a bit like the Model-T Ford in the market place - simple, rugged and quite capable without any frills. Same thing for years and years and only internal updates of sensor and firmware as possible as a refresher. No bling.

Keep the same basics and the R&D costs low. Don’t try and blitz the market but it would be a handy continuing niche of a camera type that few other companies could emulate and fewer might try to compete with.

They might do some internal cost cutting simplification by making on-board improvements to make build even more modular.

An ideal companion to a larger M4/3 body that could keep pace with the larger bodies and use all of our lenses. Despite its diminutive size it can use larger lenses even if some might prefer a larger lump of camera in their hands.

They could not charge more as existing GM5 users might look, salivate, count their bawbees and pass. Deciding that the the GM5 in their hand was still good enough.

They could not add the fandangoes such as tilting screens, etc as it would spoil the entire concept. They could not add such things as fast video or IBIS as the heat and increased battery size could not be accommodated inside such a small body.

In the end it is a huge ask and it is most likely to go unanswered.

Although they lack the flexibility of small system cameras { able to use a huge selection of lenses etc } I think that the truly tiny RX100 models with their soap bar design { and handling } .Have filled the if you want tiny but better than a phone category for a lot of people

On the case of sun-rooms and passing through the end of our high-summer with Mr Mercury bouncing off 30C days - things would be going swimmingly except for the second wettest summer for quite a long while. Overnights being a nice “air-conditioned” 20C.

20C! as you know that is official tops off weather here By sun room I meant something like this . Linda has become a rampant gardener during lockdown . Sun room seems to mean different things to different companies ranging from glorified sheds to conservatories .

The main issue is that 30C is hot but not unendurably so like 40C+ Which is happening in some places like Perth (Western Australia) at the moment, but combined with the present humidity after a whole week of rain it is a bit enervating to work outside. But I am just saying, not complaining, or Aussie-bragging, as it is nice to see a full head of lush green grass that needs cutting (literally) twice a week. Better than a frantic dragging around of sprinklers trying to ward off a summer dust bowl. Lush green lawn looks better.

Sun rooms are not really necessary but big wide verandahs with nice sea breezes are cooler

Linda says sun room I say yes

--

Jim Stirling:
It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true” Russell
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[James Stirling]

There has been no generational two stop jump in sensor performance ever in any format. If Sony had the technology to do that it would be unlikely m43 would be the first beneficiaries . It seems reasonable to base predictions on what already exists rather than fantasy . I

If there is a two stop difference it will be down to multi image shooting as there is no current technology that would allow for a genuine two stop jump in noise

The majority of noise today doesn't come from the sensor, it comes from shot noise which is a statistical property of the light itself. The only way to lower it is to get more light, by bigger sensor or longer exposure or multiple exposure or whatever.

Don't pin your hopes on magic sensor technology, it isn't going to happen. WOW or not.

I agree totally , Mark a faster sensor readout etc could certainly speed up the multi shot trickery but there will still be limitations on it .

 

[Raist3d]

I think that there is a sweet price for something like the GM5 - the market liked it but just would not buy it (or the GM1) at launch price. But if Panasonic could keep it simple and trim their margins somewhat they could probably sell a a continuing stream at AUD$600-900 (maybe) as we would pay a bit more if they were new and updated tot he 20mp sensor.

This would convert to about US$400-600 roughly and from recent chat on the forum this would equate to something similar in GBP. (No pound sign on my keyboard).

In other words - keep it simple and without conveniences but make it the same size as the original and build it to the same lasting high standards of the present models.

I had a vision of the GM series being a bit like the Model-T Ford in the market place - simple, rugged and quite capable without any frills. Same thing for years and years and only internal updates of sensor and firmware as possible as a refresher. No bling.

Keep the same basics and the R&D costs low. Don’t try and blitz the market but it would be a handy continuing niche of a camera type that few other companies could emulate and fewer might try to compete with.

They might do some internal cost cutting simplification by making on-board improvements to make build even more modular.

An ideal companion to a larger M4/3 body that could keep pace with the larger bodies and use all of our lenses. Despite its diminutive size it can use larger lenses even if some might prefer a larger lump of camera in their hands.

They could not charge more as existing GM5 users might look, salivate, count their bawbees and pass. Deciding that the the GM5 in their hand was still good enough.

They could not add the fandangoes such as tilting screens, etc as it would spoil the entire concept. They could not add such things as fast video or IBIS as the heat and increased battery size could not be accommodated inside such a small body.

In the end it is a huge ask and it is most likely to go unanswered.

On the case of sun-rooms and passing through the end of our high-summer with Mr Mercury bouncing off 30C days - things would be going swimmingly except for the second wettest summer for quite a long while. Overnights being a nice “air-conditioned” 20C.

The main issue is that 30C is hot but not unendurably so like 40C+ Which is happening in some places like Perth (Western Australia) at the moment, but combined with the present humidity after a whole week of rain it is a bit enervating to work outside. But I am just saying, not complaining, or Aussie-bragging, as it is nice to see a full head of lush green grass that needs cutting (literally) twice a week. Better than a frantic dragging around of sprinklers trying to ward off a summer dust bowl. Lush green lawn looks better.

Sun rooms are not really necessary but big wide verandahs with nice sea breezes are cooler