Andaman Sea Blackwater

[Barmaglot_07]

It's way too quiet here lately; here's a few photos to liven up the place.




Some kind of jellyfish that looked pretty




I thought it was a worm, but on closer inspection it turned out to be a salp colony




This squid literally bumped into my leg




...then proceeded to circle around me for several minutes








Need an ID on this one




Seeking shelter, or feeding frenzy?




Some kind of filefish




Driftfish?




No idea on this one




A sea butterfly




Again no idea




A bit unusual to see a fully-grown seahorse drifting without holding on to anything




Another angle on the same




Little jellyfish - the latest in hat fashion




Larval butterflyfish




Snake blenny




Larval squirrelfish

 

[Gkuzu]

-I came across an article about Blackwater. Although he did not write as clearly as I did, there was an article in parallel with me.

Blackwater settings;

I try to splash with the camera set to 1/200 sec, f/10, iso 400 and then adjust for the subject. Some photographers prefer to shoot with a tighter aperture and higher iso for more depth of field, and while that can work to achieve a nice shot, I find the resulting restriction of light to be deleterious to the final image. You are welcome to play around here until you find a base setting that works for you.

An Insider's Guide to Blackwater Photography – Ikelite

- which, according to me, the iso 400 it uses here is still incorrect. If he had used iso 100, the photo would have been at least 3 times sharper.

 

[kelpdiver]

- which, according to me, the iso 400 it uses here is still incorrect. If he had used iso 100, the photo would have been at least 3 times sharper.

I think that's a great closing note to ignoring you forever.

3x sharper is utter nonsense.

Maybe some day you'll supply the goods to prove it. But probably not.

 

[Gkuzu]

- which, according to me, the iso 400 it uses here is still incorrect. If he had used iso 100, the photo would have been at least 3 times sharper.

I think that's a great closing note to ignoring you forever.

3x sharper is utter nonsense.

Maybe some day you'll supply the goods to prove it. But probably not.

There is no logical, technical explanation for keeping the iso high when using Flash. Especially for shots that don't have a background like blackwater.

When we increase the ISO, the light data from the diaphragm and shutter speed decreases.

High ISO has no positive effect on exposure. Exposure is not possible with iso. With high ISO, no data is sent to the sensor, on the contrary, the incoming data is reduced.

As the incoming data decreases, the sharpness decreases. The photo you see in high iso is not the light data, but the artificial image made by the processor.

----------------------

When to Change ISO Underwater – Ikelite

ISO and Flash Use

It's important to avoid the mistake of using too high of an ISO with strobes. If you shoot ISO 800 on a sun drenched reef and your strobes are set to TTL, the resulting images will be monotone blue or green. This is because when the scene is read by the TTL system, the camera thinks there's so much ambient light that all but the smallest blip of flash will overexpose the scene. So your strobes will be firing at a very low power and the colors on your subject will be washed out and lacking vibrancy.

 

[Barmaglot_07]

I do. I've dived hundreds of times at night, capturing moving objects. If something is wrong, it is wrong, it doesn't change the right that many people do wrong.

Wonderful! I'm sure you'll be happy to post some examples of your work... right? Right?

Objects that move after focusing do not stay in focus in DOF until the moment of shooting.

That depends on how much DoF you have and how far the objects move. If, for example, you have a two-centimeter range in which objects are sufficiently in focus to look sharp on the resulting image, then a one-centimeter move will not register. If, however, you have a one-centimeter DoF, and the target moves by that same one centimeter, it will, most likely, pass out of your 'acceptable sharpness' range.

High ISO won't help you freeze the image. 100 iso and 100000 iso freeze images with the same success. High iso only helps to make background images more distinct and you do not have such a purpose in blackwater shooting. TTL always works well at ISO 100.

An image is frozen when the flash light hits the object and therefore the sensor. If the speed of the moving objects is more than the shutter lag, blurry will occur behind the image. The only thing that matters is the shutter speed. There is no reason to do 160 instead of 200. If you can do HSS, you should.

That makes absolutely no sense. First of all, there is every reason to shoot at 1/160 rather than 1/200 - my camera syncs with strobes at up to 1/160s; at 1/200s or higher I'll get a black exposure. A cursory check of specs would tell you that. Yes, I can use HSS (uncommon underwater, but I happen to have all the required pieces), but this will drop strobe power considerably, far below that which is needed to shoot at small apertures (see above for the need to use small apertures for DoF buffer). Additionally, I want to have my strobes recycling quickly, so that I can use burst mode on moving subjects - taking half a dozen shots, maybe one or two will be in good focus - this limits available strobe power; using Retra Pro strobes with superchargers, I can do 3fps at up to half power. As an aside, I might add that this is considerably better than most underwater strobes. This, in turn, drives the need for higher ISO than baseline, as low power flashes at small apertures will not give a good exposure at baseline ISOs.

However, just for shits and giggles, I have taken some examples of blackwater images at a relatively open aperture and baseline ISO. Most of them look like this:



In case you were wondering, that's a squid.

Some are a little better, like this shrimp:



At the time, I didn't even know I was shooting a shrimp - I saw a tiny dot with two whiskers and took a burst of shots to figure out later what it is. At f/32, the body would've been in focus, not just the antennae. At f/11 - well, you can see for yourself.

For another comparison, here are a few squid that are in focus:











I challenge you to find them "four times sharper" than the ones in OP that were shot at ISO 800 f/25.

 

[Barmaglot_07]

As for TTL, I've yet to see an expert recommend its use.

Alex Tyrell (http://dive4photos.com/) uses TTL with a Nikon D500, Turtle trigger and Retra Pro X strobes. He was running the photography workshop on the liveaboard that I just came back from (The Smiling Seahorse, based out of Ranong, Thailand).

 

[Barmaglot_07]

I suspect also that the images are crops., rather than a full frame composition, for the same reasons. So TTL is unlikely to do a lick of good. And for the same reasons, needs all the light possible.

Most are crops, yes, although some (the squids, the face-on seahorse) are full-res (6000x4000).

The advantage of TTL on blackwater is that it will keep you from blowing the highlights on a reflective subject.

Squid are among the most frustrating targets as they rarely stay still for more than a second or two. The translucent jellies are more difficult to focus on, but they are more likely to be drifters, or can't move very fast.

Squids are way faster and more agile than anything called a 'mollusc' has any right to be. The way they zoom around, launching themselves into a blurry streak from a complete standstill, then coming to a stop equally fast, just borders on ridiculous.

 

[Gkuzu]

I do. I've dived hundreds of times at night, capturing moving objects. If something is wrong, it is wrong, it doesn't change the right that many people do wrong.

Wonderful! I'm sure you'll be happy to post some examples of your work... right? Right?

I will load two photos I took 10 years ago to explain the f value below.

Objects that move after focusing do not stay in focus in DOF until the moment of shooting.

That depends on how much DoF you have and how far the objects move. If, for example, you have a two-centimeter range in which objects are sufficiently in focus to look sharp on the resulting image, then a one-centimeter move will not register. If, however, you have a one-centimeter DoF, and the target moves by that same one centimeter, it will, most likely, pass out of your 'acceptable sharpness' range.

Let's say you have a 5 cm DOF, you have a range of 2.5 cm forward to 2.5 cm back. If the subject moves 1 cm forward or backward after focusing, that is, at the time of the shooting, the sharpness will deteriorate. A 1 cm movement within a 5 cm range disrupts the clarity. Shooting with f25 instead of f11 will not gain you anything. It makes more sense by shooting consecutively. Acceptable sharpness is unacceptable for a good photo.

High ISO won't help you freeze the image. 100 iso and 100000 iso freeze images with the same success. High iso only helps to make background images more distinct and you do not have such a purpose in blackwater shooting. TTL always works well at ISO 100.

An image is frozen when the flash light hits the object and therefore the sensor. If the speed of the moving objects is more than the shutter lag, blurry will occur behind the image. The only thing that matters is the shutter speed. There is no reason to do 160 instead of 200. If you can do HSS, you should.

That makes absolutely no sense. First of all, there is every reason to shoot at 1/160 rather than 1/200 - my camera syncs with strobes at up to 1/160s; at 1/200s or higher I'll get a black exposure. A cursory check of specs would tell you that. Yes, I can use HSS (uncommon underwater, but I happen to have all the required pieces), but this will drop strobe power considerably, far below that which is needed to shoot at small apertures (see above for the need to use small apertures for DoF buffer). Additionally, I want to have my strobes recycling quickly, so that I can use burst mode on moving subjects - taking half a dozen shots, maybe one or two will be in good focus - this limits available strobe power; using Retra Pro strobes with superchargers, I can do 3fps at up to half power. As an aside, I might add that this is considerably better than most underwater strobes. This, in turn, drives the need for higher ISO than baseline, as low power flashes at small apertures will not give a good exposure at baseline ISOs.

Are you using your pop-up flash to trigger? You told me you have UW Technics TTL converter and I checked it has HSS support, your camera also has HSS support.If you use TTL converter 1/200 and even 1/1000 does not get you black exposure in macro shooting.

Flashes must have a large battery, my YS250s can burn easily at 10 fps and fully synchronized even at 1/2000 in HSS. That was the case with my old YS350s. When there is a big battery, there is a big flash. It's hard to carry, but you get the best results.

Power loss in HSS is valid for long distances. For shots from 3-5 meters away, there is no problem with TTL. Try and experience this situation with a sony HVL-F60 flash. Flashes with 4 AA batteries may not be enough for HSS. You need to do Retra HSS and TTL at the same time. Weefine or Kraken S05 and Isotta Red 64 are very good and has big powerful battery.

However, just for shits and giggles, I have taken some examples of blackwater images at a relatively open aperture and baseline ISO. Most of them look like this:

Some are a little better, like this shrimp:



At the time, I didn't even know I was shooting a shrimp - I saw a tiny dot with two whiskers and took a burst of shots to figure out later what it is. At f/32, the body would've been in focus, not just the antennae. At f/11 - well, you can see for yourself.

That's what you don't understand, nothing would have changed in f32 either. Important is only shoot moment in focus.



I took this 10 years ago in Arabian-Basra gulf. (these are untouched original copy) This is a larval juvenile boxfish. It is very difficult to notice with the eyes. The length of the cardinal fish on the back is 5-6 cm, its head is 1.5-1 cm. Guess the size of the boxfish. Full focus and f22, inspect sharpness.

And this.. To increase the DOF, I pulled back a little and f8 as well.. This is f8.. check it which one is better.

I challenge you to find them "four times sharper" than the ones in OP that were shot at ISO 800 f/25.

ISO 100, TTL and f8 -f11and HSS always make a difference..

 

[Barmaglot_07]

I will load two photos I took 10 years ago to explain the f value below.

I'm not seeing anything resembling blackwater.

Let's say you have a 5 cm DOF, you have a range of 2.5 cm forward to 2.5 cm back. If the subject moves 1 cm forward or backward after focusing, that is, at the time of the shooting, the sharpness will deteriorate. A 1 cm movement within a 5 cm range disrupts the clarity. Shooting with f25 instead of f11 will not gain you anything. It makes more sense by shooting consecutively. Acceptable sharpness is unacceptable for a good photo.

Shooting small apertures helps keeping the deterioration below the floor of which the camera sensor can resolve.

Are you using your pop-up flash to trigger?

No.

You told me you have UW Technics TTL converter and I checked it has HSS support, your camera also has HSS support.

Yes.

If you use TTL converter 1/200 and even 1/1000 does not get you black exposure in macro shooting.

If I don't explicitly enable HSS on the strobes - yes it will. Enabling HSS requires loading it into the U1 or U2 custom mode banks, then twisting the mode knob to the appropriate position.

Flashes must have a large battery, my YS250s can burn easily at 10 fps

Not at anything resembling full power; its recycle time at full power is specified at 1.8 seconds, and manufacturers routinely lie on this statistic, claiming recycle time to 70-80% of charge as 'full'.

I'm using Retra Pro strobes with supercharger battery packs, so 8xAA per strobe. This gives me a sustained 3fps at half power. At 75% power, 3fps starts missing shots. 11fps works at up to 6% power.

and fully synchronized even at 1/2000 in HSS.

YS-250 does not support HSS. It does have an unusually long pulse duration, with approximates HSS to a certain degree, but that is not true HSS.

Power loss in HSS is valid for long distances.

Distance has nothing to do with it. A strobe in HSS mode flickers at a rapid pace (typically 40kHz) rather than producing a single continuous pulse. This severely constrains the overall brightness - usable range drops as a consequence of that, not by itself.

For shots from 3-5 meters away, there is no problem with TTL.

For one thing, 3-5 meters away, underwater?! Are you kidding me? May as well be in a different ocean. For another, HSS and TTL don't work together, at least on my system. HSS is manual-only.

Weefine or Kraken S05 and Isotta Red 64 are very good and has big powerful battery.

That Weefine strobe is terrible, somehow they managed to design a circular tube strobe that leaves an unlit spot in the middle of the frame, and has a narrow beam. Its only standout feature is long battery life. Isotta RED64 is good, but huge, heavy, extremely expensive, doesn't have any accessories, and doesn't support HSS either.

I took this 10 years ago in Arabian-Basra gulf. (these are untouched original copy) This is a larval juvenile boxfish. It is very difficult to notice with the eyes. The length of the cardinal fish on the back is 5-6 cm, its head is 1.5-1 cm. Guess the size of the boxfish. Full focus and f22, inspect sharpness.

That's a juvenile, not larval stage, and I've seen them smaller, when they're still totally round - yours is starting to grow ridges. Besides, your first shot seems to simply miss focus completely, if not by much - the tailfin appears sharper than the nose. The second shot is focused on the target's face, but the tail is completely out of focus, as a consequence of reduced DoF.

ISO 100, TTL and f8 -f11and HSS always make a difference..

Difference? Sure, but Kazimir Malevich has done his 'Black Square' over a century ago; it's not really innovative in 2022.

 

[Gkuzu]

I will load two photos I took 10 years ago to explain the f value below.

I'm not seeing anything resembling blackwater.

I couldn't find enough small objects in the night shoot. I didn't do the Blackwater dive either. If I do, you'll see very good photos.

Let's say you have a 5 cm DOF, you have a range of 2.5 cm forward to 2.5 cm back. If the subject moves 1 cm forward or backward after focusing, that is, at the time of the shooting, the sharpness will deteriorate. A 1 cm movement within a 5 cm range disrupts the clarity. Shooting with f25 instead of f11 will not gain you anything. It makes more sense by shooting consecutively. Acceptable sharpness is unacceptable for a good photo.

Shooting small apertures helps keeping the deterioration below the floor of which the camera sensor can resolve.

At values above f11, it is not possible to take good photos according to the laws of physics. There is diffraction. It does not provide you any benefit in Dof range, on the contrary, it gives bad photo always.

Are you using your pop-up flash to trigger?

No.

Then why 1/160 ?

You told me you have UW Technics TTL converter and I checked it has HSS support, your camera also has HSS support.

Yes.

Go HSS with your converter and flash.

If you use TTL converter 1/200 and even 1/1000 does not get you black exposure in macro shooting.

If I don't explicitly enable HSS on the strobes - yes it will. Enabling HSS requires loading it into the U1 or U2 custom mode banks, then twisting the mode knob to the appropriate position.

Flashes must have a large battery, my YS250s can burn easily at 10 fps

Not at anything resembling full power; its recycle time at full power is specified at 1.8 seconds, and manufacturers routinely lie on this statistic, claiming recycle time to 70-80% of charge as 'full'.

I'm using Retra Pro strobes with supercharger battery packs, so 8xAA per strobe. This gives me a sustained 3fps at half power. At 75% power, 3fps starts missing shots. 11fps works at up to 6% power.

If your flashes are 8xAA, it's great.

and fully synchronized even at 1/2000 in HSS.

YS-250 does not support HSS. It does have an unusually long pulse duration, with approximates HSS to a certain degree, but that is not true HSS.

YS 250s shoots 10fps and continuously burn. I will post a video about it. The battery matters. I triggered YS250s over on 580EXII (in housing-6 pin) TTL-HSS mode, 1/2000 perfectly synchronized.

Power loss in HSS is valid for long distances.

Distance has nothing to do with it. A strobe in HSS mode flickers at a rapid pace (typically 40kHz) rather than producing a single continuous pulse. This severely constrains the overall brightness - usable range drops as a consequence of that, not by itself.

If the HSS is high, the range of action flashlight decreases. This is what I'm talking about.

For shots from 3-5 meters away, there is no problem with TTL.

For one thing, 3-5 meters away, underwater?! Are you kidding me? May as well be in a different ocean. For another, HSS and TTL don't work together, at least on my system. HSS is manual-only.

For macro shots, the power of the flash does not decrease in HSS, you do not feel it. The flashlight is effective up to 3-5 meters. HSS and TTL work together. For example580 EXII in housing. It may not be working in your flash. There are strobes with an auto mode on them and triggered in HSS, but they no longer produce.

Weefine or Kraken S05 and Isotta Red 64 are very good and has big powerful battery.

That Weefine strobe is terrible, somehow they managed to design a circular tube strobe that leaves an unlit spot in the middle of the frame, and has a narrow beam. Its only standout feature is long battery life. Isotta RED64 is good, but huge, heavy, extremely expensive, doesn't have any accessories, and doesn't support HSS either.

If you trigger HSS, and Flash triggers as slaves, there is no point in having HSS support in a flash. I've heard that Red 64 (HSS ready) is triggered in HSS.

I took this 10 years ago in Arabian-Basra gulf. (these are untouched original copy) This is a larval juvenile boxfish. It is very difficult to notice with the eyes. The length of the cardinal fish on the back is 5-6 cm, its head is 1.5-1 cm. Guess the size of the boxfish. Full focus and f22, inspect sharpness.

That's a juvenile, not larval stage, and I've seen them smaller, when they're still totally round - yours is starting to grow ridges. Besides, your first shot seems to simply miss focus completely, if not by much - the tailfin appears sharper than the nose. The second shot is focused on the target's face, but the tail is completely out of focus, as a consequence of reduced DoF.

ISO 100, TTL and f8 -f11and HSS always make a difference..

Difference? Sure, but Kazimir Malevich has done his 'Black Square' over a century ago; it's not really innovative in 2022.

I don't know what you re talking about.

 

[Barmaglot_07]

I couldn't find enough small objects in the night shoot.

In other words, having shot underwater for 25 years, you have failed to produce a single postable image using the settings that you advocate others using. That's, uh, inspiring confidence, oh yeah.

I didn't do the Blackwater dive either. If I do, you'll see very good photos.

Uh huh.

At values above f11, it is not possible to take good photos according to the laws of physics. There is diffraction. It does not provide you any benefit in Dof range, on the contrary, it gives bad photo always.

Bwahahahahaha.

Are you using your pop-up flash to trigger?

No.

Then why 1/160 ?

Because 1/160s is the maximum normal sync speed of all Sony Alpha APS-C cameras. Sony Alpha full-frame cameras can do 1/160s with manual triggers and 1/250s with TTL triggers that have more precise timings. Sony A1 can do 1/400s in full-frame mode and 1/500s in APS-C crop mode.

You told me you have UW Technics TTL converter and I checked it has HSS support, your camera also has HSS support.

Yes.

Go HSS with your converter and flash.

I feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall here. I'll try to make it as clear as I can.

This wonderful close-up image of a sofa cushion is taken from about 15 centimeters away with a 90mm macro lens, using a single Retra Pro flash firing at full power in manual mode, f/22, 1/160s, ISO 100:



The next image was taken with everything exactly the same (camera position, strobe position, focus, strobe settings, etc), but with exposure set to 1/250s:



And this is, again, the same image, still at 1/250s, but with HSS mode activated on the strobe (still doing a full dump):



See the difference?

YS 250s shoots 10fps and continuously burn. I will post a video about it. The battery matters. I triggered YS250s over on 580EXII (in housing-6 pin) TTL-HSS mode, 1/2000 perfectly synchronized.

YS-250 does not do HSS, and it does not do 10fps at anything above minimal power levels.

For macro shots, the power of the flash does not decrease in HSS, you do not feel it.

Examples I have posted above to the contrary.

The flashlight is effective up to 3-5 meters.

The hell it is.

HSS and TTL work together.

Not always. On my system, HSS is available only in manual power adjustment mode.

If you trigger HSS, and Flash triggers as slaves, there is no point in having HSS support in a flash.

This sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

I've heard that Red 64 (HSS ready) is triggered in HSS.

You heard wrong. The only underwater strobes currently on the market with HSS support are Retra Prime/Pro (and the X refresh models) and Seacam SeaFlash 60D/160D. Seacams can do TTL with HSS, but they only support Canon and Nikon TTL; Retras rely on external triggers (UW-Technics and Turtle are the most popular) so they're brand-agnostic, but HSS function is manual-only.

I don't know what you re talking about.

Clearly. The bigger issue is, however, that you don't know what you're talking about either.

 

[kelpdiver]

The flashlight is effective up to 3-5 meters.

The hell it is.

this is up there with "shots at ISO 100 are 3x sharper than those at ISO 400."

 

[Gkuzu]

I couldn't find enough small objects in the night shoot.

In other words, having shot underwater for 25 years, you have failed to produce a single postable image using the settings that you advocate others using. That's, uh, inspiring confidence, oh yeah.

I didn't do the Blackwater dive either. If I do, you'll see very good photos.

Uh huh.

I'm not shooting at f25. I know what DOF is, you still don't. LOL.. All photos above f 20 uploaded in that your Facebook group are garbage.

At values above f11, it is not possible to take good photos according to the laws of physics. There is diffraction. It does not provide you any benefit in Dof range, on the contrary, it gives bad photo always.

Bwahahahahaha.

LoL. This is bad quality.. You do not understand. I showed you the f8 and f22 photos taken at the same time. Do you have a comparison photo taken F8 and above f20 that will make it easier for you to understand? Never in your life you have taken a photo like this and compared it.

Are you using your pop-up flash to trigger?

No.

Then why 1/160 ?

Because 1/160s is the maximum normal sync speed of all Sony Alpha APS-C cameras. Sony Alpha full-frame cameras can do 1/160s with manual triggers and 1/250s with TTL triggers that have more precise timings. Sony A1 can do 1/400s in full-frame mode and 1/500s in APS-C crop mode.

You could shoot at a speed higher than 1/160 with your HSS supported TTL converter and Retra flashes. Why did not you do it?

You told me you have UW Technics TTL converter and I checked it has HSS support, your camera also has HSS support.

Yes.

Go HSS with your converter and flash.

I feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall here. I'll try to make it as clear as I can.

This wonderful close-up image of a sofa cushion is taken from about 15 centimeters away with a 90mm macro lens, using a single Retra Pro flash firing at full power in manual mode, f/22, 1/160s, ISO 100:



The next image was taken with everything exactly the same (camera position, strobe position, focus, strobe settings, etc), but with exposure set to 1/250s:



And this is, again, the same image, still at 1/250s, but with HSS mode activated on the strobe (still doing a full dump):



See the difference?

Yes. Your TTL converter is not enough. Unsuccessful. There is still a blackout at the bottom.

YS 250s shoots 10fps and continuously burn. I will post a video about it. The battery matters. I triggered YS250s over on 580EXII (in housing-6 pin) TTL-HSS mode, 1/2000 perfectly synchronized.

YS-250 does not do HSS, and it does not do 10fps at anything above minimal power levels.

No, you don't know. You didn't use it, you didn't experience it. With enough capacitors and batteries, all flashes are triggered in HSS. There is no need to write HSS on it. Even the Nikonos SB 105 fires 1/2000 in HSS. It is not at minimum power, it is effective in all macro shots up to 3 meters.

The YS 250 Pro does 10fps at half power. I just spoke with the Sea&Sea distributor and he confirmed what I said. I just shot a video for you, watch it.

My camera takes 5 frames per second. The YS250 pro fires nonstop at half power.

In addition, similarly powerful Ikelite DS 230, Supe D Max ..etc.. flashes can fire up to 15 fps.

For macro shots, the power of the flash does not decrease in HSS, you do not feel it.

Examples I have posted above to the contrary.

You don't have enough knowledge and you're tiring me. I took it for you an hour ago. Triggered TTL and HSS on 580EX II with fiber optic cable to YS250Pro. I took it wide-angle so you can see the sync too. 1/200, 1/500, 1/1000, and 1/2000.

P.S: Currently there is a problem with DP, it does not add photos. I uploaded it to my gallery. I'll add it when the problem is fixed.

OK, look from here;

1/200

https://flic.kr/p/2n12eqA

1/500

https://flic.kr/p/2n12erh

1/1000

https://flic.kr/p/2n18Qig

1/2000

https://flic.kr/p/2n17aQU

The flashlight is effective up to 3-5 meters.

The hell it is.

Do not talk nonsense.. Even 3 meters is enough for macro shooting, even more.

HSS and TTL work together.

Not always. On my system, HSS is available only in manual power adjustment mode.

It's the inadequacy of your flash. If it receives TTL information with electrical connection, it triggers. It triggers if S-TTL is sensitive.

I

I've heard that Red 64 (HSS ready) is triggered in HSS.

You heard wrong. The only underwater strobes currently on the market with HSS support are Retra Prime/Pro (and the X refresh models) and Seacam SeaFlash 60D/160D. Seacams can do TTL with HSS, but they only support Canon and Nikon TTL; Retras rely on external triggers (UW-Technics and Turtle are the most popular) so they're brand-agnostic, but HSS function is manual-only.

No, you know wrong. As I wrote above, almost all flashes trigger HSS. Even my 40-year-old Sea&Sea YS 20 flash also triggers HSS. If you use the original flash of the camera..

 

[Barmaglot_07]

I'm not shooting at f25. I know what DOF is, you still don't. LOL.. All photos above f 20 uploaded in that your Facebook group are garbage.

Still waiting for those awesome blackwater photos of yours. It's kind of hilarious how to waltz in and, despite having zero practical experience of your own, declare that all the experts in the field are Doing It Wrong.

LoL. This is bad quality.. You do not understand. I showed you the f8 and f22 photos taken at the same time. Do you have a comparison photo taken F8 and above f20 that will make it easier for you to understand? Never in your life you have taken a photo like this and compared it.

You've shown a photo with a missed focus, and compared it to one where it was mostly on target, but part of the subject was blurred away due to insufficient depth of field. Bzzzt, try again.

You could shoot at a speed higher than 1/160 with your HSS supported TTL converter and Retra flashes. Why did not you do it?

Because, you complete ignoramus, it is not supported.

No, you don't know. You didn't use it, you didn't experience it. With enough capacitors and batteries, all flashes are triggered in HSS. There is no need to write HSS on it.

It is obvious that you have zero understanding of how flash sync functions, and what HSS is. Go read some articles on the subject and come back.

Even the Nikonos SB 105 fires 1/2000 in HSS. It is not at minimum power, it is effective in all macro shots up to 3 meters.

Do you even know what macro photography is?

The YS 250 Pro does 10fps at half power. I just spoke with the Sea&Sea distributor and he confirmed what I said. I just shot a video for you, watch it.

My camera takes 5 frames per second. The YS250 pro fires nonstop at half power.

No, it tries to fire, at whatever capacitor level it has at the time it receives the triggering signal. Go back and look at your exposures and you'll find significant differences between the first 1-3 shots and everything after that. Simple physics - YS-250Pro is rated for 200 full-power flashes, so let's be generous and give it 400 half-power flashes. At 10fps, firing continuously, it will reach that number, exhausting the battery within 40 seconds. There is not a chemical battery in all of Christendom that can go from full to empty in 40 seconds.

In addition, similarly powerful Ikelite DS 230, Supe D Max ..etc.. flashes can fire up to 15 fps.

I don't know about DS230, but SUPE D-MAX is noticeably less powerful that Retra Pro, see the review here: https://wetpixel.com/articles/strobe-review-scubalamp-d-max-and-retra-pro-flash/P3 - the manufacturer's claims of 250 W/s are baseless; it's likely around 100-120 W/s.

You don't have enough knowledge and you're tiring me. I took it for you an hour ago. Triggered TTL and HSS on 580EX II with fiber optic cable to YS250Pro. I took it wide-angle so you can see the sync too. 1/200, 1/500, 1/1000, and 1/2000.

P.S: Currently there is a problem with DP, it does not add photos. I uploaded it to my gallery. I'll add it when the problem is fixed.

OK, look from here;

1/200

https://flic.kr/p/2n12eqA

1/500

https://flic.kr/p/2n12erh

1/1000

https://flic.kr/p/2n18Qig

1/2000

https://flic.kr/p/2n17aQU

What you're witnessing here is a combination of HSS working on your 580EX II (which lights up the room overall), overexposure produced by shooting directly into a flash, and the atypically long pulse duration exhibited by YS-250Pro (which keeps glowing during the length of your exposure, and since it's so bright, it clips the highlights despite the drop-off in intensity); see reference here: https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/60459-flash-duration/&tab=comments#comment-386683

Do not talk nonsense.. Even 3 meters is enough for macro shooting, even more.

What the hell kind of lens are you using for macro at 3 meters, an 800mm telephoto? Macro photography is generally characterized by subject reproduction ratios of 1:2 to 1:1, with greater than 1:1 magnification falling under the umbrella of supermacro.

 

[Gkuzu]

I'm not shooting at f25. I know what DOF is, you still don't. LOL.. All photos above f 20 uploaded in that your Facebook group are garbage.

Still waiting for those awesome blackwater photos of yours. It's kind of hilarious how to waltz in and, despite having zero practical experience of your own, declare that all the experts in the field are Doing It Wrong.

You are talking in vain. If you call those awful things photos and persist, you will take photos like the ones you took all your life.

LoL. This is bad quality.. You do not understand. I showed you the f8 and f22 photos taken at the same time. Do you have a comparison photo taken F8 and above f20 that will make it easier for you to understand? Never in your life you have taken a photo like this and compared it.

You've shown a photo with a missed focus, and compared it to one where it was mostly on target, but part of the subject was blurred away due to insufficient depth of field. Bzzzt, try again.

There is no missed focus there. Ministers, those who understand see.

If you don't understand you can not understand. This is your problem.

You put a bad photo here because it's good, the viewers see it.. This is your capacity.

You could shoot at a speed higher than 1/160 with your HSS supported TTL converter and Retra flashes. Why did not you do it?

Because, you complete ignoramus, it is not supported.

You are ignorant.. you delete what you wrote.. most of what you wrote is wrong.. those who read it see.

No, you don't know. You didn't use it, you didn't experience it. With enough capacitors and batteries, all flashes are triggered in HSS. There is no need to write HSS on it.

It is obvious that you have zero understanding of how flash sync functions, and what HSS is. Go read some articles on the subject and come back.

You know nothing. There's no arguing with an ignorant person like you.

Even the Nikonos SB 105 fires 1/2000 in HSS. It is not at minimum power, it is effective in all macro shots up to 3 meters.

Do you even know what macro photography is?

It's a shame, you're talking nonsense. The flash power, which affects 3 meters, is more than sufficient for macro shots of 10 cm - 20 cm - 30 cm. If you don't understand that, it's your problem.

The YS 250 Pro does 10fps at half power. I just spoke with the Sea&Sea distributor and he confirmed what I said. I just shot a video for you, watch it.

My camera takes 5 frames per second. The YS250 pro fires nonstop at half power.

No, it tries to fire, at whatever capacitor level it has at the time it receives the triggering signal. Go back and look at your exposures and you'll find significant differences between the first 1-3 shots and everything after that. Simple physics - YS-250Pro is rated for 200 full-power flashes, so let's be generous and give it 400 half-power flashes. At 10fps, firing continuously, it will reach that number, exhausting the battery within 40 seconds. There is not a chemical battery in all of Christendom that can go from full to empty in 40 seconds.

You know wrong. Go ask your Sea&Sea distributor. Those who read here should look at the video.

In addition, similarly powerful Ikelite DS 230, Supe D Max ..etc.. flashes can fire up to 15 fps.

I don't know about DS230, but SUPE D-MAX is noticeably less powerful that Retra Pro, see the review here: https://wetpixel.com/articles/strobe-review-scubalamp-d-max-and-retra-pro-flash/P3 - the manufacturer's claims of 250 W/s are baseless; it's likely around 100-120 W/s.

You see that everything you wrote before is wrong. Don't read the forums where ignorant people write, go check the specs of the flashes. No manufacturer writes in their specs something that they cannot do.

You don't have enough knowledge and you're tiring me. I took it for you an hour ago. Triggered TTL and HSS on 580EX II with fiber optic cable to YS250Pro. I took it wide-angle so you can see the sync too. 1/200, 1/500, 1/1000, and 1/2000.

P.S: Currently there is a problem with DP, it does not add photos. I uploaded it to my gallery. I'll add it when the problem is fixed.

OK, look from here;

1/200

https://flic.kr/p/2n12eqA

1/500

https://flic.kr/p/2n12erh

1/1000

https://flic.kr/p/2n18Qig

1/2000

https://flic.kr/p/2n17aQU

What you're witnessing here is a combination of HSS working on your 580EX II (which lights up the room overall), overexposure produced by shooting directly into a flash, and the atypically long pulse duration exhibited by YS-250Pro (which keeps glowing during the length of your exposure, and since it's so bright, it clips the highlights despite the drop-off in intensity); see reference here: https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/60459-flash-duration/&tab=comments#comment-386683

You used to say that HSS won't do it, now you're rolling it. There it is.. and is doing it.. You have a lot to learn.

Do not talk nonsense.. Even 3 meters is enough for macro shooting, even more.

What the hell kind of lens are you using for macro at 3 meters, an 800mm telephoto? Macro photography is generally characterized by subject reproduction ratios of 1:2 to 1:1, with greater than 1:1 magnification falling under the umbrella of supermacro.

You talk like a child.. You still don't understand. You wrote that flash gives too little light to be used.. I wrote no, it works up to 3 meters even in 1/2000.. I wrote above what you don't understand.

I did it wrong... I'm dealing with the ignorant. I wrote it here only for those who read.. Those who read and look at the photos will see what's what.

 

[Barmaglot_07]

You are talking in vain. If you call those awful things photos and persist, you will take photos like the ones you took all your life.

This is so pathetic, it does not even deserve a response.

There is no missed focus there. Ministers, those who understand see.

When the tail fin rays are sharper than the nose, it is indicative of the focus plane being behind the subject.

You are ignorant.. you delete what you wrote.. most of what you wrote is wrong.. those who read it see.

Those who read your word salad will be mystified.

You know nothing. There's no arguing with an ignorant person like you.

I assume that you haven't bothered to educate yourself on the basics of flash synchronization. Shame.

Even the Nikonos SB 105 fires 1/2000 in HSS. It is not at minimum power, it is effective in all macro shots up to 3 meters.

Do you even know what macro photography is?

It's a shame, you're talking nonsense. The flash power, which affects 3 meters

You must be a spec-writer. Affects 3 meters... under what conditions? 3 meters of what?

You know wrong. Go ask your Sea&Sea distributor. Those who read here should look at the video.

If anyone, regardless of occupation, tells me something that obviously breaks laws of physics, I will point and laugh. Like, for example, your claim that you can discharge NiMHs at 80-100C.

In addition, similarly powerful Ikelite DS 230, Supe D Max ..etc.. flashes can fire up to 15 fps.

I don't know about DS230, but SUPE D-MAX is noticeably less powerful that Retra Pro, see the review here: https://wetpixel.com/articles/strobe-review-scubalamp-d-max-and-retra-pro-flash/P3 - the manufacturer's claims of 250 W/s are baseless; it's likely around 100-120 W/s.

You see that everything you wrote before is wrong. Don't read the forums where ignorant people write, go check the specs of the flashes. No manufacturer writes in their specs something that they cannot do.

Bwahahhahahhaahaha... *cough* *sputter* hahahahahahaha

You believe the manufacturers' specs at face value? Oh my sweet summer child...

The article that I linked has shots taken with Retra Pro and SUPE D-MAX, both at full power, in the same conditions - on a tripod, underwater. The shot taken with the Retra Pro is approximately 0.2 stops brighter in the center, with a more diffuse beam to boot. This shows that SUPE's claims of 250 watt-seconds for their strobe (compared to Retra's 150 watt-seconds) are utter garbage.

As for 'ignorant people on forums' - Pavel Kolpakov, in the thread that I linked, is the person behind UW-Technics. He has forgotten more about underwater strobes than you will ever know.

You used to say that HSS won't do it, now you're rolling it. There it is.. and is doing it.. You have a lot to learn.

You're mashing random buttons and drawing utterly wrong conclusions. Until you actually get a faint glimmer of understanding how cameras and strobes function, you will persist wallowing in your ignorance.

 

[kelpdiver]

This is one of those times when you click on the 'ignore user' function.

Can't really have a conversation with a guy talking about macro photography at 3m, or about the refire capability of a strobe that S&S discontinued 5 1/2 years ago. As nice as the circular elements are, I doubt it can keep up with the current D3, which will shoot continuously at GN16.

There are definitely fans of it, and will keep trying to use it, but much of its audience has move on to current models. The Retras, among others, target these folks.

 

[Barmaglot_07]

This is one of those times when you click on the 'ignore user' function.

I'm just worried that someone may read his drivel later and take it at face value.

 

[kelpdiver]

This is one of those times when you click on the 'ignore user' function.

I'm just worried that someone may read his drivel later and take it at face value.

can only worry so much. No one should be single sourcing info on the internet. Besides, anyone who has a YS-250 or takes the effort to get one now isn't a spring chicken.

When you mute a user, you still have the ability to click to read, and can still reply. It just defaults to showing you a [message blocked] message to remove the trigger.

 

[kelpdiver]

The article that I linked has shots taken with Retra Pro and SUPE D-MAX, both at full power, in the same conditions - on a tripod, underwater. The shot taken with the Retra Pro is approximately 0.2 stops brighter in the center, with a more diffuse beam to boot. This shows that SUPE's claims of 250 watt-seconds for their strobe (compared to Retra's 150 watt-seconds) are utter garbage.

It can drive one batty trying to compare lumens to watts, or GN to watt seconds versus coverage distribution and consistency with marketing spin to boot. And then there's the misery in (esp S&S strobes) getting the right fiber cord to couple to the SLR or flash trigger.

 

[Barmaglot_07]

It can drive one batty trying to compare lumens to watts, or GN to watt seconds versus coverage distribution and consistency with marketing spin to boot. And then there's the misery in (esp S&S strobes) getting the right fiber cord to couple to the SLR or flash trigger.

Any single number is largely meaningless out of context when we're dealing with complex devices, but guide numbers are particularly bad. Pavel Kolpakov measured the output of Inon Z-330 when that strobe came out, and found that the GN33 rating was accurate... for a tiny little spot dead center where the two beams from its bulbs intersect. Everywhere else it drops off rapidly.

Circular bulb strobes are generally better at light distribution (witness DS160 with its GN24 outperforming GN33 Inon and S&S strobes in tests) but even that is far from guaranteed - Weefine/Kraken made a circular bulb strobe and somehow messed up the reflector design so bad, they ended up with a narrow beam (IIRC less than 90 degrees) and a dim spot in the middle.

Thinking about that, it's possible, theoretically, that SUPE D-MAX does actually dump 250 joules into its bulb, but half of that gets lost in the reflector and the output ends up losing to a strobe with 60% of its theoretical power.