History repeating itself in the market

[Kodakrevisited]

In the early days of digital cameras, there was rapid advance with new releases of all kinds of dedicated cameras almost daily, as time went on, heaps of these were discarded as people upgraded regularly for improved image quality and features, this lasted for years but as the technology matured the new releases slowed and now we are almost at a standstill certainly with respect to compact cameras

We now see exactly the same thing happening with smartphones, masses of development, feverish upgrading by consumers and heaps of inexpensive used smartphone (bargains IMO) appearing on ebay often taken in part ex for a new shiny model

Its just as interesting and exciting as the early days of dedicated cameras for me, it has certainly restored my interest

--
I think it unlikely that I will ever buy another brand new camera

 

[Phil A Martin]

In the early days of digital cameras, there was rapid advance with new releases of all kinds of dedicated cameras almost daily, as time went on, heaps of these were discarded as people upgraded regularly for improved image quality and features, this lasted for years but as the technology matured the new releases slowed and now we are almost at a standstill certainly with respect to compact cameras

We now see exactly the same thing happening with smartphones, masses of development, feverish upgrading by consumers and heaps of inexpensive used smartphone (bargains IMO) appearing on ebay often taken in part ex for a new shiny model

Its just as interesting and exciting as the early days of dedicated cameras for me, it has certainly restored my interest

 

[All Bushs Fault]

[No message]

 

[BrentSchumer]

The difference is that old smartphones are a security risk, due to limited update lifecycles. Buyer beware.

 

[Kodakrevisited]

The difference is that old smartphones are a security risk, due to limited update lifecycles. Buyer beware.

I bought a 6 month old OPPO Reno 10x which origionally retailed for around £800 or more for £185 with a warranty because the replacement model was 5g capable but all else was the same, so there are plenty of bargains to be had with no downsides

 

[BrentSchumer]

The difference is that old smartphones are a security risk, due to limited update lifecycles. Buyer beware.

I bought a 6 month old OPPO Reno 10x which origionally retailed for around £800 or more for £185 with a warranty because the replacement model was 5g capable but all else was the same, so there are plenty of bargains to be had with no downsides

Oh sure. Just pointing out that a bargain basement older phone can carry risks, as we tend to use them for all kinds of data.

 

[Kodakrevisited]

Agreed you have to be careful it's a fair point

 

[iljitsch]

Is this a post that somehow got stuck for a decade?

Cell phones are so boring these days. Yes, they're fast. Yes, they have good screens. Yes, they have lots of storage. Yes, their cameras are better than ever. Yawn. It's all the same as last year, just a little more of everything.

 

[Kodakrevisited]

Is this a post that somehow got stuck for a decade?

Cell phones are so boring these days. Yes, they're fast. Yes, they have good screens. Yes, they have lots of storage. Yes, their cameras are better than ever. Yawn. It's all the same as last year, just a little more of everything.

Wasn't that the case with ever improving compact cameras? yet we seemed to talk endlessly about those here too, and to me, the advances in smartphone tech are far more significant than the tiny improvements that were made over years with compact cameras, they hardly changed

--
I think it unlikely that I will ever buy another brand new camera

 

[Phil A Martin]

Is this a post that somehow got stuck for a decade?

Cell phones are so boring these days. Yes, they're fast. Yes, they have good screens. Yes, they have lots of storage. Yes, their cameras are better than ever. Yawn. It's all the same as last year, just a little more of everything.

And I wonder what percentage of people buy the phone for the camera rather than for communication and social media, eBay and Facebook, TikTok and what's app, watching TV and YouTube, or even just for games and texting. Maybe even for phoning people? We cannot assume all sales are based on the camera. I suspect that sector is a minority of sales, maybe a large minority but a minority nonetheless.

 

[HappyMartin]

I used to upgrade my phone every year. Then it went to two years. My iPhone 5 lasted me three years. I have had the iPhone 7 now for 4 and a half years. Changed the battery two years ago. I see no new features I must have. Rather put the money toward the DJI Air 3. Looks loads more interesting than a new phone.



So no. I won’t upgrade my phone and don’t see the excitement.

 

[tex]

"Buyers" of new phones are often actually more like leasers, in that your service provider often amortizes the full cost of the phone and spreads it out into your service plan. I know of few/no camera & lens situations comparable, except just using a credit card. But that's different in that there's no service plan.

I know I have never bought a phone outright. The closest I've gotten to that was paying for half of my current phone up front.

And here on this forum we speak of the camera capabilities, but of course phones are so much more than that today. They are really pocket computers. I probably use my phone more for texting, emailing, navigation, searches, and the like than I do as a traditional telephone. I certainly use it for all of those things more than I use it as a camera.

 

[WiltshireMoonraker59]

All my cameras for the last 10 years have been second-hand. My current camera, a Olympus EM1ii with a 12-40 f2.8 was from Wex photo second-hand and I have just bought a mint condition Sony RX100 mk1 off of E-Bay second-hand too. You are right, if you are not bothered about the latest and the greatest, you can pick up some real bargains.

 

[Phil A Martin]

"Buyers" of new phones are often actually more like leasers, in that your service provider often amortizes the full cost of the phone and spreads it out into your service plan. I know of few/no camera & lens situations comparable, except just using a credit card. But that's different in that there's no service plan.

I know I have never bought a phone outright. The closest I've gotten to that was paying for half of my current phone up front.

And here on this forum we speak of the camera capabilities, but of course phones are so much more than that today. They are really pocket computers. I probably use my phone more for texting, emailing, navigation, searches, and the like than I do as a traditional telephone. I certainly use it for all of those things more than I use it as a camera.

That's my experience as well. I use my phone for all sorts of things, for everything you suggest to listening to the radio and I rarely use the camera and I suspect that's the experience of a majority of users.

--
tex_andrews, Andrews Fine Arts LLC, museum photography and art handling contractor.

 

[Phil A Martin]

All my cameras for the last 10 years have been second-hand. My current camera, a Olympus EM1ii with a 12-40 f2.8 was from Wex photo second-hand and I have just bought a mint condition Sony RX100 mk1 off of E-Bay second-hand too. You are right, if you are not bothered about the latest and the greatest, you can pick up some real bargains.

Again your experience mirrors mine. Amateurs who suffer from gas, are a useful source of nearly new equipment which is often little used and complete with boxes.

 

[iljitsch]

It's not like cameras are completely new every year, but there's been a ton of interesting stuff there. For instance, Nikon has Z lenses that are rather different from their F mount lenses. Mirrorless, with plusses and minuses as far as AF is concerned, (eye detection) and quickly catching up. Improving but still not great communication. To name a few things. And that's in a declining industry.

It's not like phones aren't getting any better, but IMO none of it is very ground breaking. And definitely not like a decade or so ago, where Apple caught the entire industry asleep by going to 64 bit while that was no nobody else's radar. High resolution screens.

 

[Marty4650]

The smartphone makers might have planned for this, by doing things to encourage frequent replacement. Even when the technology has matured, there are other ways of getting customers to buy new phones.

Plus, DO NOT make the mistake of thinking these two things "are the same" because both can take photos. These are wildly different tools that serve wildly different functions.

• Smartphones are a lot more than just cameras. They have become necessary tools for modern life. So they have two avenues for future sales.... upgrading existing phones, and selling cheaper new phones in emerging markets. So they have quite a while to go before they will run out of customers.

• The Smartphone has virtually REPLACED the cheap camera as the tool of choice for casual snapshooters. A camera can never replace a smartphone until it can do everything a smartphone can do. And that means "a hundred different things."

• Smartphone are frail devices that are impossible to repair yourself, and near impossible to have it repaired by anyone except by a manufacturers authorized repair shop. And the cost of repair is so high, that you might decide to replace rather than repair.

• Some smartphone makers are now serializing their own parts so even their own genuine parts will not work in their own phones, UNLESS they are installed by their own personnel who have the equipment to reset the codes. Apple is doing this right now.

• Smartphones are usually equipped with batteries and memory that the users cannot replace or expanded by their customers. The camera makers made the mistake of having memory slots and replicable batteries. Both of which are available at low cost from third party suppliers, and are easily installed by users.

Plus, as you noted, Smartphone technology and fashion moves much faster than camera devices. Operating systems are routinely upgraded, with older ones being disabled, and we have seen entire underlying tech replaced (3G, 4G, 5G) making old models obsolete. It took ten years for MILC cameras to catch on, but just a few months for everyone to "add a notch" when Apple added one. And remember how Samsung poked fun at Apple removing the headphone jack? Well, now they are doing it too.

Smartphone makers are in the envious position where they can limit or remove features while simultaneously increasing their prices. Camera makers just aren't that fortunate.

--
Marty
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
my blog: http://marty4650.blogspot.com/

 

[Flavil]

• Smartphones are a lot more than just cameras. They have become necessary tools for modern life.

You said it, Marty. Uber Eats, Scan and Go shopping, Bumble and Tinder are wonderous marvels of happy fun time.

Just matched with Bella. I need a good opener. I figure "Ciao Bella" is a little tired. Someone help me out here.

--
RAW--- Reconfigurable Architecture Workflowness

 

[Travis Nicky Bombastus]

Manufacturers are chum-feeding smartphones to a frenzied populace they've hooked on an endless addiction cycle to social media.

Amidst the epidemic of selfies, mental health has never been poorer and the prevalence of body dysmorphia never been higher. It's not the photography, per se, that drives adoption, but rather the promise of more attention, regard, and recognition that the new device might garner.

And manufacturers are all too happy to feed this desperate and maladaptive quest for likes and validation with hyped promises.

But the devices always fall short--because that's what addiction is: you can never have enough. And so the cycle continues...

--
“He who establishes his argument by noise and command, shows that his reason is weak.”

 

[Marty4650]

The difference is that old smartphones are a security risk, due to limited update lifecycles. Buyer beware.

And your "BRAND NEW $1,100 Smartphone" will become an old smartphone in two or three years time. Thus making it a "security risk that requires replacement."

The problem here is that cameras with "mature technology" can last ten years or more, but a smartphone with the latest and greatest technology in it has a very limited lifespan.

And this is marketing genius. Because they have created a very desirable, but also very expensive disposable device. Normally, disposable devices are cheap things like ballpoint pens, or paper cups.... but this time they have succeeded in creating a very expensive disposable device.

And they deserve a lot of credit for that. At least, from their stockholders...





--
Marty
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
my blog: http://marty4650.blogspot.com/