Film is dead

Film isn't dead but it's certainly a niche hobby like using a spinning wheel to make yarn or restoring antique cars. When there are no more antique cars to restore or film is no longer made then they will be dead.

--
Tom
 
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Film isn't dead but it's certainly a niche hobby like using a spinning wheel to make yarn or restoring antique cars. When there are no more antique cars to restore or film is no longer made then they will be dead.
Ah. So basically like the hobbyists here with interchangeable lens cameras instead of smartphones.

But more seriously, some feel that the film bubble (as in financial bubble; film cameras are amazingly expensive now for the hot models) will burst. It's not like antique cars (since every year a new batch of cars passes into antique-ness), more like rotary phones, in that very few new film cameras are being made (Lomography, Polaroid, Fuji). Although new films have come out and have been resurrected. These do well...now. Quite well.

There will always be a niche for retro, especially non-digital retro (I haven't seen any market for retro iPhones...yet). If you've got film equipment hanging around make sure you check the prices before you chuck it or donate it...unless you're feeling very generous. I've sold a film camera recently made in 1992 for far more than it sold for then, even accounting for inflation. Wonder if that will be true for the R3?
 
Film isn't dead but it's certainly a niche hobby like using a spinning wheel to make yarn or restoring antique cars. When there are no more antique cars to restore or film is no longer made then they will be dead.
Ah. So basically like the hobbyists here with interchangeable lens cameras instead of smartphones.

But more seriously, some feel that the film bubble (as in financial bubble; film cameras are amazingly expensive now for the hot models) will burst. It's not like antique cars (since every year a new batch of cars passes into antique-ness), more like rotary phones, in that very few new film cameras are being made (Lomography, Polaroid, Fuji). Although new films have come out and have been resurrected. These do well...now. Quite well.
Its been suggested that the cost of film cameras now represents a correction to the very low prices in the digital boom in the early 2010s.



The boom does seem to be leveling out a bit now - but Olympus Mju iis (the bellwether camera :-) ) is still pulling £300 in good condition
There will always be a niche for retro, especially non-digital retro (I haven't seen any market for retro iPhones...yet). If you've got film equipment hanging around make sure you check the prices before you chuck it or donate it...unless you're feeling very generous. I've sold a film camera recently made in 1992 for far more than it sold for then, even accounting for inflation. Wonder if that will be true for the R3?
 
There will always be a niche for retro, especially non-digital retro (I haven't seen any market for retro iPhones...yet). If you've got film equipment hanging around make sure you check the prices before you chuck it or donate it...unless you're feeling very generous. I've sold a film camera recently made in 1992 for far more than it sold for then, even accounting for inflation. Wonder if that will be true for the R3?
A little story. Back in the 60's, I owned McIntosh stereo equipment. One piece of equipment was a McIntosh MC240 that I bought for $271, ($2100 in today's dollars). 3 years later I traded it in toward a solid-state Mac 2505 and got a $200 trade-in value. Now that same model MC240 sells for around $3000-5000 used and restored which even when adjusted for inflation is a lot more than the price when new.
 
Film photography is now the domain of folks who care enough about the medium to deal with the whole process that it entails and prefer it to digital...
I can't say that I agree with that.

I shoot film because I enjoy doing so but all of my films are developed by my local camera shop.

I don't do it myself, partly because I reckon that to do so would be inconvenient indoors and also because I don't really want the bother.

I only know two others, in real life, who shoot film and they get their films developed in the same shop.

That doesn't mean that any of us are lazy or ignorant, as is being suggested by posters on here. It merely means that we'd rather take the easy option.


"It's good to be . . . . . . . . . Me!"
 
If you understand what I posted , for Dimitri this is true.
Oh, I understood what you posted -- which was "Film is dead", when a more fitting title would have been "Film is dead for Dimitri". (Unless you were going for maximum click-bait, in which case you should have titled this post "Ten reasons film is dead -- #4 will make you cringe!!")

And yet the way you have described Dimitri, he is unwilling to use the mail, and has somehow gotten the idea that one requires a comprehensive background to follow a simple developing recipe.

Or perhaps Dimitri is concerned that film will require a set of skills that he does not posses, and could well damage the image others have of him as a serious photographer. Hence the declaration that film is dead. (Except Dimitri create a post called "Film is Dead" -- you did!)

Gotta be honest, Tony, your post does not paint Dimitri in a flattering light. For the sake of your friendship, let's hope he is as wary of online forums as he is of the Canadian postal service.
as far as Dimitri is concerned the idea of film is dead
See, now there would be a more appropriate (though potentially less attention-getting) title. Although given what you've told us, an even better title might be "As far as film is concerned, the idea of Dimitri as a serious photographer is dead."

Aaron
 
Film photography is now the domain of folks who care enough about the medium to deal with the whole process that it entails and prefer it to digital...
I can't say that I agree with that.

I shoot film because I enjoy doing so but all of my films are developed by my local camera shop.

I don't do it myself, partly because I reckon that to do so would be inconvenient indoors and also because I don't really want the bother.
Totally agree - I mostly shoot colour and the C41 and E6 processes are standardised, so there is zero advantage in developing it yourself
I only know two others, in real life, who shoot film and they get their films developed in the same shop.

That doesn't mean that any of us are lazy or ignorant, as is being suggested by posters on here. It merely means that we'd rather take the easy option.
 
There will always be a niche for retro, especially non-digital retro (I haven't seen any market for retro iPhones...yet). If you've got film equipment hanging around make sure you check the prices before you chuck it or donate it...unless you're feeling very generous. I've sold a film camera recently made in 1992 for far more than it sold for then, even accounting for inflation. Wonder if that will be true for the R3?
A little story. Back in the 60's, I owned McIntosh stereo equipment. One piece of equipment was a McIntosh MC240 that I bought for $271, ($2100 in today's dollars). 3 years later I traded it in toward a solid-state Mac 2505 and got a $200 trade-in value. Now that same model MC240 sells for around $3000-5000 used and restored which even when adjusted for inflation is a lot more than the price when new.
Wow.

We were talking about this lately and trying to think of what we have now that will appreciate like some of the equipment of yore. Some digital cameras are remaining popular, but none are that old yet. But hey...old video games have appreciated and some old computers. I'm sure if I guess and keep something I'll be wrong ;-)
 
There will always be a niche for retro, especially non-digital retro (I haven't seen any market for retro iPhones...yet). If you've got film equipment hanging around make sure you check the prices before you chuck it or donate it...unless you're feeling very generous. I've sold a film camera recently made in 1992 for far more than it sold for then, even accounting for inflation. Wonder if that will be true for the R3?
A little story. Back in the 60's, I owned McIntosh stereo equipment. One piece of equipment was a McIntosh MC240 that I bought for $271, ($2100 in today's dollars). 3 years later I traded it in toward a solid-state Mac 2505 and got a $200 trade-in value. Now that same model MC240 sells for around $3000-5000 used and restored which even when adjusted for inflation is a lot more than the price when new.
Wow.

We were talking about this lately and trying to think of what we have now that will appreciate like some of the equipment of yore. Some digital cameras are remaining popular, but none are that old yet. But hey...old video games have appreciated and some old computers. I'm sure if I guess and keep something I'll be wrong ;-)
You could always buy a warehouse and keep everything!! I could kick myself for not keeping that Mc240 but tube amps were fading like film today. Remember though that McIntosh, which is still in business today and sells the highest quality possible HiFi equipment and is built to the highest quality standards. It's the highest quality equipment that increases in value over time. It's the type of equipment that is appreciated by engineers and it's what they would build if the cost was no object.

McIntosh: Home Audio Equipment for Stereo & Home Theater Systems (mcintoshlabs.com)
 
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Film isn't dead but it's certainly a niche hobby like using a spinning wheel to make yarn or restoring antique cars. When there are no more antique cars to restore or film is no longer made then they will be dead.
I totally agree w you but by your logic, in the unlikely possibility that they ever no longer make film, you could always go even further back in time to wet plate, dry plate or daguerreotype photography.
 
My dear friend who is an excellent photographer to say the least wanted to try film photography. I offered him my ancient mamiya rb67 with three lenses but just now found out that there is no commercial service in Calgary that process film any longer. In a practical sense, film is dead when it comes to film. Of course the only other option is to process film yourself which may not be practical in this case.

Unfortunately I do not have a digital back for the camera!
There are plenty of mail-in film processing services, at least in the USA.
They are all prohibitively expensive "per roll" if you want your negatives and prints back. Even the "scans only" options are not cheap enough for any hobbyist to experiment with film often.
Yep. The cheapest I can find in the US is $11-12 a roll for 35 or 120, more if you use panoramic (anything larger than 6x9 in MF). Panoramic and half-frame developing can be nearly twice the cost per roll, before shipping.

I recently 3d-printed a 6x12 camera, and my usual lab added a fee for panoramic developing. :-(
 
I haven't shot film in more than 15 years at this point and I much prefer the digital process myslef, but I definitely wouldn't say that "film is dead." So what if the places that process the stuff are few and far between these days... so what too that there are very few film cameras being made these days. The typical film user in the current era is someone who's happy to use an old camera (and that old tech is cool... and cheap!), who enjoys the kind of more hands on, hand made approach that the medium offers. All of this means that they're mostly happy to be developing their own film and if they don't have the means for making prints they probably have the sort of gear needed to scan their negatives and then manipulate the result digitally. I see a fair amount of work done this way on Flickr and much of it is produced by waht I consider to be very good photographers. There are lots of folks out there with blogs and YouTube channels as well who work this way and swear by it. All of this is supported by companies who still produce film photographic paper, chemicals, etc... of which there seems to be enough demand for to keep it going.

The kind of folks who at one time would have sent their film off to be developed aren't the sample people who would be doing that today. If you want convenient then there are of course other options, and much cheaper options than that. Film photography is now the domain of folks who care enough about the medium to deal with the whole process that it entails and prefer it to digital...
I shoot quite a lot of film and I send it all out to be developed.

Currently in the UK there appears to be a lack of lab capacity for the number of people shooting film and wanting it to be developed. One of the biggest growth areas in film photography at the moment is the disposable camera. I don’t think it’s safe to infer that everyone who is using film ( or even a large percentage ) want to do the whole process.
Fair enough... though from my own (probably somewhat limited) anecdotal evidence it seems to be the real DIY types who are driving the film thing...
 
Film photography is now the domain of folks who care enough about the medium to deal with the whole process that it entails and prefer it to digital...
I can't say that I agree with that.

I shoot film because I enjoy doing so but all of my films are developed by my local camera shop.

I don't do it myself, partly because I reckon that to do so would be inconvenient indoors and also because I don't really want the bother.
Totally agree - I mostly shoot colour and the C41 and E6 processes are standardised, so there is zero advantage in developing it yourself
I only know two others, in real life, who shoot film and they get their films developed in the same shop.

That doesn't mean that any of us are lazy or ignorant, as is being suggested by posters on here. It merely means that we'd rather take the easy option.
No... I get that. Virtually all of the recently film stuff that I see on Flickr is B&W, but obviously there must be some folks who shoot color film as well! Having played around with processing and printing both color and B&W film, I can say that there's far less good reason to develop color film yourself. With B&W film processing gives one more of an opportunity to tweak the results a bit to taste, where doing that with color is more of a recipe for just getting things wrong and making it more work for yourself when yougo to print the stuff (or to scan the negs and process in a computer).


my flickr:
 
I haven't shot film in more than 15 years at this point and I much prefer the digital process myslef, but I definitely wouldn't say that "film is dead." So what if the places that process the stuff are few and far between these days... so what too that there are very few film cameras being made these days. The typical film user in the current era is someone who's happy to use an old camera (and that old tech is cool... and cheap!), who enjoys the kind of more hands on, hand made approach that the medium offers. All of this means that they're mostly happy to be developing their own film and if they don't have the means for making prints they probably have the sort of gear needed to scan their negatives and then manipulate the result digitally. I see a fair amount of work done this way on Flickr and much of it is produced by waht I consider to be very good photographers. There are lots of folks out there with blogs and YouTube channels as well who work this way and swear by it. All of this is supported by companies who still produce film photographic paper, chemicals, etc... of which there seems to be enough demand for to keep it going.

The kind of folks who at one time would have sent their film off to be developed aren't the sample people who would be doing that today. If you want convenient then there are of course other options, and much cheaper options than that. Film photography is now the domain of folks who care enough about the medium to deal with the whole process that it entails and prefer it to digital...
I shoot quite a lot of film and I send it all out to be developed.

Currently in the UK there appears to be a lack of lab capacity for the number of people shooting film and wanting it to be developed. One of the biggest growth areas in film photography at the moment is the disposable camera. I don’t think it’s safe to infer that everyone who is using film ( or even a large percentage ) want to do the whole process.
Fair enough... though from my own (probably somewhat limited) anecdotal evidence it seems to be the real DIY types who are driving the film thing...
And of course the people who consider tell them to be an essential part of their art. I know a few such photographers who are genuine artists in this medium.
 
I haven't shot film in more than 15 years at this point and I much prefer the digital process myslef, but I definitely wouldn't say that "film is dead." So what if the places that process the stuff are few and far between these days... so what too that there are very few film cameras being made these days. The typical film user in the current era is someone who's happy to use an old camera (and that old tech is cool... and cheap!), who enjoys the kind of more hands on, hand made approach that the medium offers. All of this means that they're mostly happy to be developing their own film and if they don't have the means for making prints they probably have the sort of gear needed to scan their negatives and then manipulate the result digitally. I see a fair amount of work done this way on Flickr and much of it is produced by waht I consider to be very good photographers. There are lots of folks out there with blogs and YouTube channels as well who work this way and swear by it. All of this is supported by companies who still produce film photographic paper, chemicals, etc... of which there seems to be enough demand for to keep it going.

The kind of folks who at one time would have sent their film off to be developed aren't the sample people who would be doing that today. If you want convenient then there are of course other options, and much cheaper options than that. Film photography is now the domain of folks who care enough about the medium to deal with the whole process that it entails and prefer it to digital...
I shoot quite a lot of film and I send it all out to be developed.

Currently in the UK there appears to be a lack of lab capacity for the number of people shooting film and wanting it to be developed. One of the biggest growth areas in film photography at the moment is the disposable camera. I don’t think it’s safe to infer that everyone who is using film ( or even a large percentage ) want to do the whole process.
Fair enough... though from my own (probably somewhat limited) anecdotal evidence it seems to be the real DIY types who are driving the film thing...
If you look at the Ilford film survey 2018 ( https://www.ilfordphoto.com/ilford-photo-global-film-users-survey-the-results-are-in/ ) you’ll see that “76% of responders have processed their own film” but, pointedly, Ilford say that was 76% of those who answered that question (1649 of 6800 who did the survey). So only 18% of those who completed the survey positively said they had developed their own film. I would suspect that people who have developed their own film are much more likely to say so than not, so I suspect the true figure of those developing their own film is closer to 20% than 80%.

In the same survey you'll see that “33% only shoot in black & white, most participants (64%) shoot both B&W and colour. The younger audience (<44) leaned towards colour with only 24.1% exclusively B&W and 72.1% shooting both, versus the 45> age range with 47.3% B&W only and 51.4% shooting both.”. The younger audience were the majority of responders (60%).
 
I always thought people using film camera enjoy the process of developing the film themselves...I am wrong.
I know this keeps cropping up but I don’t understand why people think this - very few people processed their own film in the 70s, 80s and 90s, why would it be different now ?
because I assumed most photographers using film today consider it as an art form. ..not just taking snap shots...there is digital for that.
 
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Film is dead for the masses, but it still alive and kicking for many. Try saying film is dead over on the Photrio or large format film sites - and there are more beyond those including a dedicated film forum here on dPreview. Many folks are coming back to film and newbies are discovering film for the first time. Some of us still have working darkrooms like mine (below), or makeshift setup setups that work just fine for film developing and scanning. A smaller population have full-scale darkrooms or community darkroom for developing and printing

I've been developing and printing for 50 years and also began shooting digital in 1999. They are simply different experiences - from shooting to final print. I use an automatic desktop film processor( 35mm--4x5) and desktop print processor for up to 11x14, Jobo for prints up to 20x24, and can go larger in custom trays. Heck, one guy over in Photrio just build and began starting shipping brand new, automated film processors- these processors self-regulate temp perfectly and even clean themselves automatically after and recover the chemistry and silver for eco-safe use.

LPL 4550 (4x5), LPL670MXL (35mm and 6x7), Fujimoto dry-to dry automatic print processor (B&W or color)
LPL 4550 (4x5), LPL670MXL (35mm and 6x7), Fujimoto dry-to dry automatic print processor (B&W or color)

Left side - Phototherm Super Sidekick 8 totally automated * programmable film processor
Left side - Phototherm Super Sidekick 8 totally automated * programmable film processor

Mike

--
The one thing everyone can agree on is that film photography has its negatives. It even has its positives and internegatives.
 
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I always thought people using film camera enjoy the process of developing the film themselves...I am wrong.
I know this keeps cropping up but I don’t understand why people think this - very few people processed their own film in the 70s, 80s and 90s, why would it be different now ?
because I assumed most photographers using film today consider it as an art form. ..not just taking snap shots...there is digital for that.
The big growth area in film today is disposable and “simple use” cameras e,g.

Doublefilm Show - https://austerityphoto.co.uk/the-show-must-go-on-the-verdict-on-the-dubblefilm-show/

Harman Resuable https://austerityphoto.co.uk/reload-to-noir-where-the-harman-reusable-camera/

Yashica MF-1 https://austerityphoto.co.uk/reloading-in-the-disposable-world-the-new-yashica-mf-1-review/

Yashica MF-2 Super https://austerityphoto.co.uk/rebooted-but-is-it-suited-new-yashica-mf2-super-v-the-old-one/

Kodak M35 (and M38) https://thedieline.com/blog/2020/7/23/-kodak-m35--unpredictable-characters?

Lomography Simple Use https://austerityphoto.co.uk/reloaded-and-ready-lomography-simple-use-camera-review/

I think people using those possibly are making a different type of art than the majority of DPR readers.
 

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