Using physical color swatches to aid color correcting?

[Brett8883]

Recently I have found myself in a few situations where I have taken a photo of something and then struggling in post to color correct because I am unsure what a color an object was actually suppose to be. For instance I shot a photo of a building and then in post I was unclear if this building was white or beige.



I already use an xrite color checker to calibrate my sensor but there are some issues with that. It will tell me the hue of known colors that are on the chart like blue sky or green foliage but isn’t all that helpful with saturation or luminosity and doesn’t help with hues not on the color chart.

I was thinking what if I had a set of color swatches that I could record really vital colors so I could refer back to those when color correcting. Something like this



I think it would be particularly useful with skin tones. You could hold up the color swatches to a model’s skin and match the correct color swatch to the skin and record that color value. Then when you get to post processing you could refer to the hex value of the color you recorded to make sure the skin tone is that same color in the photo.

Anybody use this method?

 

[grsnovi]

I don't use a color checker and my monitor isn't calibrated so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

The only thing I think I'd ever use Pantone swatches for would be product photography where the EXACT Pantone color was critical to the customer. In any case, I wouldn't think you'd easily be able to nail more than a single Pantone color.

I would expect that you should be able to shoot a test shot (of whatever you're shooting) with your X-Rite in the scene, shoot the rest under the same lighting without the X-Rite and make global curve adjustments to bring everything on the X-Rite as close as possible.

I'm curious what you're shooting where the color needs to be that exact? Are you submitting your work for publication or printing large? The downstream work would need to be color managed as well.

These days I just shoot for me so my memory (real or imagined) of what the scene looked like is good enough.

 

[Klaus dk]

Include a grey card in the first frame and adjust WB from that with the eyedropper. Then you only need one.

 

[Brett8883]

I don't use a color checker and my monitor isn't calibrated so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

The only thing I think I'd ever use Pantone swatches for would be product photography where the EXACT Pantone color was critical to the customer. In any case, I wouldn't think you'd easily be able to nail more than a single Pantone color.

Yea just the one predominant color.

I guess another use for it would also be setting up shots. Say you are doing a clothing shoot and want to set up a color harmony with the clothing. You could find the color of the clothing using the swatches, choose a color harmony based on that color, and then use the swatches of the colors that represent the other colors in the harmony to find a background and props.

I would expect that you should be able to shoot a test shot (of whatever you're shooting) with your X-Rite in the scene, shoot the rest under the same lighting without the X-Rite and make global curve adjustments to bring everything on the X-Rite as close as possible.

That’s what I have been doing but that means I have to match 18 colors instead of one and none of the 18 are actually the color I care about and still couldn’t really be sure it’s the right color anyway. That’s the problem with using just a color checker.

I'm curious what you're shooting where the color needs to be that exact? Are you submitting your work for publication or printing large? The downstream work would need to be color managed as well.

It’s more that I want to stop second guessing myself or being second guessed. This way I know what the color is and can’t convince myself it’s wrong and the client convince me it’s wrong.

These days I just shoot for me so my memory (real or imagined) of what the scene looked like is good enough.

 

[Brett8883]

Include a grey card in the first frame and adjust WB from that with the eyedropper. Then you only need one.

I do that too

 

[D Cox]

Include a grey card in the first frame and adjust WB from that with the eyedropper. Then you only need one.

I do that too

Do you use the Color Checker software to make a profile for Adobe Camera Raw ? That can make a difference.

Don Cox

 

[Klaus dk]

Include a grey card in the first frame and adjust WB from that with the eyedropper. Then you only need one.

I do that too

Do you use the Color Checker software to make a profile for Adobe Camera Raw ? That can make a difference.

Don Cox

I'm sure it can make a difference, but no, I don't use neither Color Checker Software nor Adobe Camera Raw, and I don't have a colour calibrated workflow. That is so because I've never felt the need and noone ever asked.

The OP's challenge is not getting optimum colour fidelity, but remembering if something in his picture was beige or grey. Carrying a book of colour swatches is both overly complicating the matter and a less than optimum solution to his problem, IMHO.

I'm not saying that colour accuracy is never important, just that to most of us in most applications, a small effort will get us most of the way, and good enough is often good enough.

Shakespeare: “Striving to better, oft we mar what’s well.”

 

[Brett8883]

Include a grey card in the first frame and adjust WB from that with the eyedropper. Then you only need one.

I do that too

Do you use the Color Checker software to make a profile for Adobe Camera Raw ? That can make a difference.

Don Cox

Yes I do but it still requires tweaking especially if there’s a mixed lighting situation.

Doesn’t sound like anybody is using this method. I think I’m gonna try it out and see how it goes. May be a waste of time, we’ll see.

 

[NickZ2016]

What are you going to do? Hold the swatch up to your monitor until it matches? Good luck with that.

The value of the colorchecker is once you have the various colours correct everything else should be.

Remember all these things fade over time. For a human no big deal but if you're striving for perfection they actually have a best by date.

 

[Colin Dutton]

Include a grey card in the first frame and adjust WB from that with the eyedropper. Then you only need one.

I do that too

Do you use the Color Checker software to make a profile for Adobe Camera Raw ? That can make a difference.

Don Cox

Yes I do but it still requires tweaking especially if there’s a mixed lighting situation.

Doesn’t sound like anybody is using this method. I think I’m gonna try it out and see how it goes. May be a waste of time, we’ll see.

There are meters that can accurately read the colour of surfaces and display them as Pantone or RGB values. Pantone's own Capsure is one example. The Datacolor Color Reader is a cheaper version that uses an app on your mobile device to display the data.

Colin

 

[Brett8883]

Include a grey card in the first frame and adjust WB from that with the eyedropper. Then you only need one.

I do that too

Do you use the Color Checker software to make a profile for Adobe Camera Raw ? That can make a difference.

Don Cox

Yes I do but it still requires tweaking especially if there’s a mixed lighting situation.

Doesn’t sound like anybody is using this method. I think I’m gonna try it out and see how it goes. May be a waste of time, we’ll see.

There are meters that can accurately read the colour of surfaces and display them as Pantone or RGB values. Pantone's own Capsure is one example. The Datacolor Color Reader is a cheaper version that uses an app on your mobile device to display the data.

Colin

 

[robgendreau]

Are you using multiple light sources? and what method of setting WB?

It can be devilish getting proper WB in that situation. Using a card can often give an improper WB; it can be better to use an ExpoDisc or similar instead.

 

[tex]

I learned this from Cathy Carver, a superb fine arts repro photographer. She'd use the fan to check colors she knew might be troublesome000out of gamut, or ones her camera dealt with inaccurately. SHe'd compare her notes to her match prints in particular.

No substitute for all of the other necessary color matching things to be done, such as color profiling your cameras, monitors, and printers. But an excellent addition to those.

But skin tones....not so sure about that.

 

[Brett8883]

Are you using multiple light sources? and what method of setting WB?

Yes Multiple light sources often natural light and artificial light that I can’t always control.

I usually use a gray card to set WB in camera but I also use my colorchecker passport which has the white balance squares and that let you use an eye dropper in post to fine tune WB

It can be devilish getting proper WB in that situation. Using a card can often give an improper WB; it can be better to use an ExpoDisc or similar instead.

So what does an ExpoDisk do that a gray card won’t?

 

[Brett8883]

I learned this from Cathy Carver, a superb fine arts repro photographer. She'd use the fan to check colors she knew might be troublesome000out of gamut, or ones her camera dealt with inaccurately. SHe'd compare her notes to her match prints in particular.

No substitute for all of the other necessary color matching things to be done, such as color profiling your cameras, monitors, and printers. But an excellent addition to those.

But skin tones....not so sure about that.

 

[tex]

So, product photography, or what I do, fine arts repro. Basically, you need a patch of pure color. So the way we'd use it, against say a patch of vivid vermilion that's going to be tricky to print/reproduce, but is a very specific hue/value/tint that's critical.

Skin tones are going to be smoothly transitioning for the most part. Also, they are unlikely to be out of gamut or pushing that way.

But the sweater the model is wearing? Or the blinding pink hair? Easier to use the Pantone swatches.

 

[Brett8883]

So, product photography, or what I do, fine arts repro. Basically, you need a patch of pure color. So the way we'd use it, against say a patch of vivid vermilion that's going to be tricky to print/reproduce, but is a very specific hue/value/tint that's critical.

Skin tones are going to be smoothly transitioning for the most part. Also, they are unlikely to be out of gamut or pushing that way.

But the sweater the model is wearing? Or the blinding pink hair? Easier to use the Pantone swatches.

 

[thinkinginimages]

Recently I have found myself in a few situations where I have taken a photo of something and then struggling in post to color correct because I am unsure what a color an object was actually suppose to be. For instance I shot a photo of a building and then in post I was unclear if this building was white or beige.

I already use an xrite color checker to calibrate my sensor but there are some issues with that. It will tell me the hue of known colors that are on the chart like blue sky or green foliage but isn’t all that helpful with saturation or luminosity and doesn’t help with hues not on the color chart.

I was thinking what if I had a set of color swatches that I could record really vital colors so I could refer back to those when color correcting. Something like this



I think it would be particularly useful with skin tones. You could hold up the color swatches to a model’s skin and match the correct color swatch to the skin and record that color value. Then when you get to post processing you could refer to the hex value of the color you recorded to make sure the skin tone is that same color in the photo.

Anybody use this method?

It's a great idea. Even if you just include a grey card, or the palm of your hand. I've done a lot of color critical product and fashion photography and specific Pantone colors were often specified by the art directors. Granted, this is a really specific workflow. You won't often need to dive down to hex or Pantone, but a good "constant" or reference is handy.

 

[pmarques]

Hi
Have you use much the Datacolor Color Reader from pantone?
I am wondering if it allows you to read only the values of the nearest pantone ref or it reads the exact value on the app using the pantone card?

In a workflow it could be useful the app could send the exact hex value from cellphone to my computer somehow, otherwise I need to write it and it could be wrongly set.

 

[Hunter_C]

Recently I have found myself in a few situations where I have taken a photo of something and then struggling in post to color correct because I am unsure what a color an object was actually suppose to be. For instance I shot a photo of a building and then in post I was unclear if this building was white or beige.

I already use an xrite color checker to calibrate my sensor but there are some issues with that. It will tell me the hue of known colors that are on the chart like blue sky or green foliage but isn’t all that helpful with saturation or luminosity and doesn’t help with hues not on the color chart.

I was thinking what if I had a set of color swatches that I could record really vital colors so I could refer back to those when color correcting. Something like this



I think it would be particularly useful with skin tones. You could hold up the color swatches to a model’s skin and match the correct color swatch to the skin and record that color value. Then when you get to post processing you could refer to the hex value of the color you recorded to make sure the skin tone is that same color in the photo.

Anybody use this method?

Are you sure that the printed colors won't ever change/fade???

--
"You must strive to find your own voice, 'cause the longer you wait to begin, the less likely you are to find it at all." —— Dead Poets Society