Sony A7R IV Blur using the 200-600mm Lens

[Domenick Creaco]

I recently purchased the 200-600mm lens to use with my A7R IV and am finding blurry images with Birds in flight (BIF). Sony has silently released the A7RM4a camera and in its description overview it says:

"Blur reducing structure"

"A re-examined and redesigned mechanism infixes the shutter unit to suppress subtle camera shake and an enhanced image stabilizer algorithm effectively reduces image blur. Overall, the camera's high resolution is successfully maintained."

The link to the A7RM4a information is:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/in...EAFFORANIMALS-EN_GL-2019-05-M15-9-TOUT02-7RIV

The picture of this re-engineered shutter mechanism and the above text is found in the Overview section.

Is Sony finally admitting to the problem? What do you think they will do for the current A7R IV owners?

According to Sony Pro Support, they tell me that they have no knowledge of this re-engineered shutter mechanism for the A7R IVa.

I would like to hear about this from other Sony A7R IV owners.

Domenick Creaco

 

[Glenn Barber]

I recently purchased the 200-600mm lens to use with my A7R IV and am finding blurry images with Birds in flight (BIF). Sony has silently released the A7RM4a camera and in its description overview it says:

"Blur reducing structure"

"A re-examined and redesigned mechanism infixes the shutter unit to suppress subtle camera shake and an enhanced image stabilizer algorithm effectively reduces image blur. Overall, the camera's high resolution is successfully maintained."

The link to the A7RM4a information is:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/in...EAFFORANIMALS-EN_GL-2019-05-M15-9-TOUT02-7RIV

The picture of this re-engineered shutter mechanism and the above text is found in the Overview section.

Is Sony finally admitting to the problem? What do you think they will do for the current A7R IV owners?

According to Sony Pro Support, they tell me that they have no knowledge of this re-engineered shutter mechanism for the A7R IVa.

I would like to hear about this from other Sony A7R IV owners.

Domenick Creaco

It would be interesting if this were the case, but I think here Sony is just rehashing the features that were already present. I have both the 200-600 and the 100-400 and they perform very differently on the A7R4 for subjects moving and at a distance. I do sometimes see the blurry softness in BIF images with the 200-600 where similar shots seem tack sharp shot with the 100-400 when focus was achieved.

There was still some of that with the A1 - but improved.

So my thought is that the issue is with the accuracy of IS and/or focus motors in the 200-600 combined with the processor complexity of panning and tracking with IS .

 

[Domenick Creaco]

I recently purchased the 200-600mm lens to use with my A7R IV and am finding blurry images with Birds in flight (BIF). Sony has silently released the A7RM4a camera and in its description overview it says:

"Blur reducing structure"

"A re-examined and redesigned mechanism infixes the shutter unit to suppress subtle camera shake and an enhanced image stabilizer algorithm effectively reduces image blur. Overall, the camera's high resolution is successfully maintained."

The link to the A7RM4a information is:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/in...EAFFORANIMALS-EN_GL-2019-05-M15-9-TOUT02-7RIV

The picture of this re-engineered shutter mechanism and the above text is found in the Overview section.

Is Sony finally admitting to the problem? What do you think they will do for the current A7R IV owners?

According to Sony Pro Support, they tell me that they have no knowledge of this re-engineered shutter mechanism for the A7R IVa.

I would like to hear about this from other Sony A7R IV owners.

Domenick Creaco

It would be interesting if this were the case, but I think here Sony is just rehashing the features that were already present. I have both the 200-600 and the 100-400 and they perform very differently on the A7R4 for subjects moving and at a distance.

I do sometimes see the blurry softness in BIF images with the 200-600 where similar shots seem tack sharp shot with the 100-400 when focus was achieved.

There was still some of that with the A1 - but improved.

So my thought is that the issue is with the accuracy of IS and/or focus motors in the 200-600 combined with the processor complexity of panning and tracking with IS .

Sometimes I find the blurriness with bird perched but more often with BIF. I altered my shooting to do the fol;lowing which helps a lot:

(1) Use back button focus

(2) Use zone focusing (No Tracking)

(3) Program the lens button for "Tracking On" (Momentary not toggle)

(4) Use IS in mode 2 or 3 (most of the time in 2)

(5) Shoot BIF at 1/2000 sec or faster and preferably at f/6.3 or f/8.

(6) Use Auto ISO but limit the low end shutter speed and high end ISO.

(7) Try to shoot in bright conditions.

When I shoot and have the subject in the viewfinder, I press the AF On button, then when the focus looks OK I press the Tracking on button (on the lens). If the tracking is on the correct part of the subject, I go and shoot a burst with all three buttons (AF On, Tracking On and Shutter) pressed, if not I re-acquire tracking by first releasing Tracking On button, r , re-center the correct part of the subject and pressing the Tracking On button again, repeated until the tracking is correct.

I find this is necessary since relying on the camera solely to do the tracking, it very often misses the subject or latches onto the wrong spot of the subject.

My hit rate improves significantly using this technique and I think the camera/lens AF is part of the problem made worse by shutter shock. So when I saw this re-engineered shutter mechanism, I though Sony, (and was), hoping was finally going to fix this issue with the A7R IV.


Domenick Creaco

 

[Cavig1]

This is a known issue. There are multiple threads here as well as over at the Fred Miranda Sony forum.

Even Mark Smith (check out his YouTube videos) admits in his latest video (shooting with the A1) that the 200-600 wasn’t as consistent using the A7Riv as with the A1. Even though his videos display some outstanding shots obtained with that setup. This is also the case with the A9 where the lens works very well indeed.

Stay healthy

Cavig


--

Misc - my a6000

Misc shots

mya6000.smugmug.com

 

[Glenn Barber]

I recently purchased the 200-600mm lens to use with my A7R IV and am finding blurry images with Birds in flight (BIF). Sony has silently released the A7RM4a camera and in its description overview it says:

"Blur reducing structure"

"A re-examined and redesigned mechanism infixes the shutter unit to suppress subtle camera shake and an enhanced image stabilizer algorithm effectively reduces image blur. Overall, the camera's high resolution is successfully maintained."

The link to the A7RM4a information is:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/in...EAFFORANIMALS-EN_GL-2019-05-M15-9-TOUT02-7RIV

The picture of this re-engineered shutter mechanism and the above text is found in the Overview section.

Is Sony finally admitting to the problem? What do you think they will do for the current A7R IV owners?

According to Sony Pro Support, they tell me that they have no knowledge of this re-engineered shutter mechanism for the A7R IVa.

I would like to hear about this from other Sony A7R IV owners.

Domenick Creaco

It would be interesting if this were the case, but I think here Sony is just rehashing the features that were already present. I have both the 200-600 and the 100-400 and they perform very differently on the A7R4 for subjects moving and at a distance.

I do sometimes see the blurry softness in BIF images with the 200-600 where similar shots seem tack sharp shot with the 100-400 when focus was achieved.

There was still some of that with the A1 - but improved.

So my thought is that the issue is with the accuracy of IS and/or focus motors in the 200-600 combined with the processor complexity of panning and tracking with IS .

Sometimes I find the blurriness with bird perched but more often with BIF. I altered my shooting to do the fol;lowing which helps a lot:

(1) Use back button focus

(2) Use zone focusing (No Tracking)

(3) Program the lens button for "Tracking On" (Momentary not toggle)

(4) Use IS in mode 2 or 3 (most of the time in 2)

(5) Shoot BIF at 1/2000 sec or faster and preferably at f/6.3 or f/8.

(6) Use Auto ISO but limit the low end shutter speed and high end ISO.

(7) Try to shoot in bright conditions.

When I shoot and have the subject in the viewfinder, I press the AF On button, then when the focus looks OK I press the Tracking on button (on the lens). If the tracking is on the correct part of the subject, I go and shoot a burst with all three buttons (AF On, Tracking On and Shutter) pressed, if not I re-acquire tracking by first releasing Tracking On button, r , re-center the correct part of the subject and pressing the Tracking On button again, repeated until the tracking is correct.

I find this is necessary since relying on the camera solely to do the tracking, it very often misses the subject or latches onto the wrong spot of the subject.

My hit rate improves significantly using this technique and I think the camera/lens AF is part of the problem made worse by shutter shock. So when I saw this re-engineered shutter mechanism, I though Sony, (and was), hoping was finally going to fix this issue with the A7R IV.

Domenick Creaco

I use center zone with tracking for BIF on the A7R4 - and wide zone on the A1 when I was testing it. here at our local march the ponds are surrounded with high reeds and bushes - and the typical birds we see have adapted to flying fast and low as possible - so when they do appear, you have almost no time to see if you've acquired precise focus - let alone get them into the center zone. I do see the advantage of having the tracking on or off for our sitting birds, but I can accomplish that by unpressing the AF-On button that implements the spot focus with tracking as an override of the Manual Zone focus.

 

[IdahoShooter]

This is a known issue. There are multiple threads here as well as over at the Fred Miranda Sony forum.

Even Mark Smith (check out his YouTube videos) admits in his latest video (shooting with the A1) that the 200-600 wasn’t as consistent using the A7Riv as with the A1. Even though his videos display some outstanding shots obtained with that setup. This is also the case with the A9 where the lens works very well indeed.

Reviewing some threads over at Fred Miranda, happily it looks like the A7Riii does not have the same issue.

 

[Erwann Loison]

My experience of the combo is that you need high shutter speed and/or ability to be very steady when handholding. I would not recommend using the OSS at all when possible, it works but not very well and I find that it often produces softer images than a good handholding technique provides, regardless of the mode used.

If you have a spare grinder handle that happen to have the same screw size as the foot, I found myself using one both for holding the lens more efficiently and it also provides some lift up for floor-level shooting (which is often shake-prone hand-held).

And as good as the 200-600 is for its price, it's not very resistant to heat waves after 25-30m, you need to stop it down to limit the damages.

 

[Glenn Barber]

This is a known issue. There are multiple threads here as well as over at the Fred Miranda Sony forum.

Even Mark Smith (check out his YouTube videos) admits in his latest video (shooting with the A1) that the 200-600 wasn’t as consistent using the A7Riv as with the A1. Even though his videos display some outstanding shots obtained with that setup. This is also the case with the A9 where the lens works very well indeed.

Reviewing some threads over at Fred Miranda, happily it looks like the A7Riii does not have the same issue.

I purchased the 200-600 after having already upgraded from the A7R3 - however given how poor tracking was on the A7R3 with the 100-400 GM - I would really be surprised to see people having much luck with BIF with the A7R3 and the 200-600.

 

[Glenn Barber]

My experience of the combo is that you need high shutter speed and/or ability to be very steady when handholding. I would not recommend using the OSS at all when possible, it works but not very well and I find that it often produces softer images than a good handholding technique provides, regardless of the mode used.

If you have a spare grinder handle that happen to have the same screw size as the foot, I found myself using one both for holding the lens more efficiently and it also provides some lift up for floor-level shooting (which is often shake-prone hand-held).

And as good as the 200-600 is for its price, it's not very resistant to heat waves after 25-30m, you need to stop it down to limit the damages.

Ive done a lot of testing with the A7r4 and 200-600 to try to identify the issue, and even mounted on a solid tripod with IS off and shutter delay - I will occasionally get a misfocus/blur amongst several sharp images - its as if something inside the lens is still moving when the exposure is made...

 

[Erwann Loison]

My experience of the combo is that you need high shutter speed and/or ability to be very steady when handholding. I would not recommend using the OSS at all when possible, it works but not very well and I find that it often produces softer images than a good handholding technique provides, regardless of the mode used.

If you have a spare grinder handle that happen to have the same screw size as the foot, I found myself using one both for holding the lens more efficiently and it also provides some lift up for floor-level shooting (which is often shake-prone hand-held).

And as good as the 200-600 is for its price, it's not very resistant to heat waves after 25-30m, you need to stop it down to limit the damages.

Ive done a lot of testing with the A7r4 and 200-600 to try to identify the issue, and even mounted on a solid tripod with IS off and shutter delay - I will occasionally get a misfocus/blur amongst several sharp images - its as if something inside the lens is still moving when the exposure is made...

The combo is clearly prone to small focusing errors, particularly in low light and bad contrast situations... But it can perform and most of the time it does. In such cases... wow.

 

[Stan in NH]

That's exactly how I do it too. Tracking/center gives me my highest hit rate. A momentary push of my BBF button (AF-ON) enables AF-S, and a continuous push gives me AF-C with tracking. I wind up with a very good hit rate.

 

[QuietOC]

I recently purchased the 200-600mm lens to use with my A7R IV and am finding blurry images with Birds in flight (BIF). Sony has silently released the A7RM4a camera and in its description overview it says:

"Blur reducing structure"

"A re-examined and redesigned mechanism infixes the shutter unit to suppress subtle camera shake and an enhanced image stabilizer algorithm effectively reduces image blur. Overall, the camera's high resolution is successfully maintained."

The link to the A7RM4a information is:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/in...EAFFORANIMALS-EN_GL-2019-05-M15-9-TOUT02-7RIV

The picture of this re-engineered shutter mechanism and the above text is found in the Overview section.

Is Sony finally admitting to the problem? What do you think they will do for the current A7R IV owners?

According to Sony Pro Support, they tell me that they have no knowledge of this re-engineered shutter mechanism for the A7R IVa.

I would like to hear about this from other Sony A7R IV owners.

Domenick Creaco

That section was copied from the original A7RIV page. The difference in the A model is a 1024x768 rear LCD panel instead of the 800x600 rear LCD panel. Sony may make other changes that don't effect the spec sheet.

 

[Erwann Loison]

That's exactly how I do it too. Tracking/center gives me my highest hit rate. A momentary push of my BBF button (AF-ON) enables AF-S, and a continuous push gives me AF-C with tracking. I wind up with a very good hit rate.

I can't remember if that was default or I customized it, but a center press on the joystick to enable tracking in any AF area mode is extremely handy.

 

[tinkerer0]

I recently purchased the 200-600mm lens to use with my A7R IV and am finding blurry images with Birds in flight (BIF). Sony has silently released the A7RM4a camera and in its description overview it says:

"Blur reducing structure"

"A re-examined and redesigned mechanism infixes the shutter unit to suppress subtle camera shake and an enhanced image stabilizer algorithm effectively reduces image blur. Overall, the camera's high resolution is successfully maintained."

The link to the A7RM4a information is:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/in...EAFFORANIMALS-EN_GL-2019-05-M15-9-TOUT02-7RIV

The picture of this re-engineered shutter mechanism and the above text is found in the Overview section.

Is Sony finally admitting to the problem? What do you think they will do for the current A7R IV owners?

According to Sony Pro Support, they tell me that they have no knowledge of this re-engineered shutter mechanism for the A7R IVa.

I would like to hear about this from other Sony A7R IV owners.

Domenick Creaco

That section was copied from the original A7RIV page. The difference in the A model is a 1024x768 rear LCD panel instead of the 800x600 rear LCD panel. Sony may make other changes that don't effect the spec sheet.

I am interested in the same question as the OP - does the A7RIVA have a different blur-reducing structure than the A7RIV? I came across this thread now 4 months later, so apologies for coming to the conversation late.

The A7RIV and A7RIVA brochures both have an entry for blur-reducing structure as noted by QuietOC, but the text is not the same.

From the A7RIV brochure:

• Blur reducing structure To maximise the incredible resolution available to the α7R IV the tiniest vibrations need to be supressed, so Sony re-engineered the shutter unit assembly with dampened screws to absorb any shutter shock. Combined with an enhanced image stabiliser algorithm, blur is dramatically reduced, and pin-sharp detail is reliably captured. Source:https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-7rm4

From the A7RIVA brochure:

• Blur reducing structure A re-examined and redesigned mechanism infixes the shutter unit to suppress subtle camera shake, and enhanced image stabiliser algorithm effectively reduces image blur. Overall, the camera's high resolution is successfully maintained.
  Source: https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-7rm4a

The change in wording that caught my attention is that the new A7RIVA brochure says the structure has been "re-examined and redesigned." Don't know, but given the text of other parts of the brochures are copied word for word, the change in text here seems significant. My reading of this is that it is a redesign of the A7RIV. In that case, perhaps the 200-600 issues are less severe with the new body.