The good, the bad, and the ugly (and the amazing!) - my P40 Pro camera experience

[2eyesee]

I’ve had my P40 Pro for a few weeks now and been testing it out and doing some comparisons with my RX10 IV.

I’m really keen on getting the best out of any camera I own, and the P40 Pro is no different. I was expecting compromises with a smartphone as a photographic tool, and as I already have an RX10 IV, it made sense use it as a benchmark for comparison.

The P40 Pro has been a mixed bag for me. A disappointment in some ways – probably my fault for buying into false expectations as a result of the hype. But there is one particular mode that has blown me away with the results it can achieve.

So to the comparisons.

There’s one thing to note about the P40 Pro’s main camera that has been pointed out to me on this forum. The main camera’s lens is 23mm, but 1x zoom is 27mm, and 27mm is achieved by cropping the 12.5MP 23mm image output to a 27mm field of view and enlarging it back up to 12.5MP. This has the effect of softening the image a little - you get better results zooming out to 23mm (the point just before you hit the wide angle lens):


100% crop - P40 Pro 27mm vs 23mm

So onto the BAD - the 18mm camera is hideously oversharpened - you can see lots of aliasing along high-contrast edges:


100% crop - P40 Pro 18mm vs 23mm

Now the downright UGLY - the 5x zoom on the P40 Pro is a smeary mess with lots of aliasing, unable to render any fine detail. I realise comparing directly it to the RX10 IV is unrealistic, but the quality is so poor I won't every be using it for photography (although it could be an option for 1080p video if I need it - stabilisation is excellent and 1080p is only 2MP resolution):


100% crop - P40 Pro vs RX10 IV 135mm

Now for the GOOD - the 50MP AI mode. It's able to achieve significantly more detail than the standard 23mm. I've scaled the 50MP image down to match the resolution of the 23MP (12.5MP):


100% crop - P40 Pro 50MP AI (23mm) vs 23mm

And the AMAZING thing about the 50MP AI mode is that it captures significantly more detail and dynamic range than my RX10 IV. Here I've left the RX10 IV shot at full resolution and scaled the P40 Pro shot down to match:


100% crop - P40 Pro 50MP vs RX10 IV

So while I'm disappointed in the wide and zoom cameras on the P40 Pro, I find the 50MP AI camera incredible and probably worth keep the phone for on its own.

Of course there are limitations with the 50MP AI mode - it's not suitable for low light photography or moving subjects. But I do find it 'clever' enough to manage some motion in the scene, such as a passing car. I'll need to investigate further on how much motion in the scene it can handle.

Regarding low light, I suspect that the standard Photo mode at 23mm will be best, as it's using the full sensor (so more light), rather than a crop that 1x zoom 27mm uses. I haven't done serious investigation yet, but in low light I prefer the results generated by standard Photo mode rather than Night Mode.

The really annoying thing I find about the P40 Pro camera app is that you can't just default to 23mm. What a shame it's so awkward to select the focal length that give the best results.

 

[Jefftan]

" P40 Pro’s main camera that has been pointed out to me on this forum. The main camera’s lens is 23mm, but 1x zoom is 27mm" Is the the same for p30 pro or just p40 pro only?

 

[Drzewoid]

Definitely 5x zoom photos could be better, i miss 3x zoom from Mate 30 PRO, but proably there is no better phone right now with 5x zoom and finally You can use RAW and results are much better. I recomment RAWThrerapee for developing RAW files form Huawei.


5x zoom

 

[Sactojim]

Those background trees are really a mess from both.

 

[Jefftan]

any color problem for RYYB sensor?

 

[Patrick T. Kelly]

any color problem for RYYB sensor?

I had the P30 pro and got the P40 pro but the lack of GMS, Google Mobile Services, was a killer. As for the RYYB sensor, I liked it and saw no color problem that was different from any digital sensor.

--

Patrick T. Kelly
Oaxaca, Mexico

 

[Droo]

You'll need a color profile to correct for the RYYB filter.

 

[Jefftan]

You'll need a color profile to correct for the RYYB filter.

where to get the color profile ? use lightroom? or profile already embedded in RAW?

 

[Droo]

There is a functioning profile embedded since some firmware update last year, but most applications don't apply it correctly until you extract it and use it as a standalone file. I made my own profile with a color checker. There is also vignette correction embedded and some apps read it, but I also made my own.

 

[2eyesee]

Those background trees are really a mess from both.

The images in my original post are 560x560, but I've noticed they are displayed upscaled to 700 pixels wide, so everything looks a little soft. Best to click on each image to view at 100%.

In the past the DPR forums were a little narrower and I found a 560 pixel wide image would display display perfectly at 100%, but at some point this has increased, so I need to start uploading 700 pixels wide for my 100% crops.

Of course this only applies to desktop - most people will be viewing on smartphones.

 

[2eyesee]

" P40 Pro’s main camera that has been pointed out to me on this forum. The main camera’s lens is 23mm, but 1x zoom is 27mm" Is the the same for p30 pro or just p40 pro only?

No - the P30 Pro has a different lens setup. The main camera on the P30 Pro has a 27mm lens.

I've been looking at comparisons between the P40 Pro and P30 Pro on GSM Arena, and in their studio shots the P30 Pro definitely has more detail, as you can see on the image below. And just look at the aliasing on the thick, diagonal lines on the P40 Pro:


P40 Pro vs P30 Pro main camera - 100% crop

I've also compared the ultrawide cameras, and here's a great example of the terrible aliasing the P40 Pro exhibits along high-contrast lines/edges:


P40 Pro vs P30 Pro ultrawide camera - 100% crop. 20MP P30 Pro image scaled down to match width of 10MP P40 Pro

The full-sized 20MP P30 Pro image isn't great, but at least you can scale it down to P40 Pro 10MP size and it looks ok. The P40 Pro just bakes in this horrendous over-sharpening in 10MP images. There doesn't seem to be any way to access the full 40MP images from the sensor - even shooting RAW.

I'm pretty disappointed by all this - to see Huawei take a step back in some areas. Kind of wishing I had got a P30 Pro instead :-(

 

[2eyesee]

Definitely 5x zoom photos could be better, i miss 3x zoom from Mate 30 PRO, but proably there is no better phone right now with 5x zoom and finally You can use RAW and results are much better. I recomment RAWThrerapee for developing RAW files form Huawei.

I've been trying out RAW Therapee to see if I can get more natural shots with the ultra-wide camera with a Profile I found in this post , but I don't think it gets me any further ahead.


P40 Pro 18mm JPG vs DNG processed in RAW Therapee

The DNG looks more natural but lacking details, and as soon as you try to sharpen it introduces artifacts. This is exactly what Huawei are doing with the JPG - over-sharpening to increase apparent detail, but introducing a lot of artifacts in the process.

It's a shame we can't access the full 40MP ultra-wide images shooting RAW. Obviously they would look poor at 100%, but it would be good to have the opportunity to process the full-sized images before downsizing to try and reduce the artifacts.

I'm thinking of selling the P40 Pro and just sticking with a real camera, but for the times that I don't have my camera on me I guess I'm not going to get much better from a smartphone. I'm probably expecting a bit much from a phone.

If you have any advice on processing the DNG files I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[Droo]

The UW camera on the P40 Pro is a lost cause. The P30 Pro's 20 MP UW cam is way better in RAW, it is quite noisy (which is why the OOC JPGs suck, heavy noise suppression), but if you process them yourself, they are great. And it can do macro.

Luckily the main camera is 23 mm and greatly reduces the need for UW.

My advice on DNGs for the P40 Pro is to use RawTherapee. Snapseed can also handle the RYYB filters, but it can't do noise suppression. And RawTherapee lets you mitigate the quad bayer remosaicing artifacts.

 

[2eyesee]

The UW camera on the P40 Pro is a lost cause.

Unfortunately this seems to be the case.

There's such a dearth of genuine quality reviews of smartphone cameras. I didn't think I could go too wrong after reading on GSM Arena that "...the 10MP ultrawide photos are simply class leading. The resolved detail is extraordinary...", and on DXOMark "..P40 Pro’s ultra-wide camera offers the best image quality we have seen on an ultra-wide...", so you can imagine my shock to find it's such a dud!

The P30 Pro's 20 MP UW cam is way better in RAW, it is quite noisy (which is why the OOC JPGs suck, heavy noise suppression), but if you process them yourself, they are great. And it can do macro.

With RAW though you do lose the benefits of computational photography - in particular dynamic range. I was just trying it to see if I could make more of the ultra-wide camera, but it doesn't really help.

Luckily the main camera is 23 mm and greatly reduces the need for UW.

It's annoying that Huawei have made it so difficult to get to 23mm though - from the 1x zoom (27mm) pinch to zoom out to the point just before you hit the ultra-wide lens.

My advice on DNGs for the P40 Pro is to use RawTherapee. Snapseed can also handle the RYYB filters, but it can't do noise suppression. And RawTherapee lets you mitigate the quad bayer remosaicing artifacts.

I was only trying RAW to see if I could salvage the terrible ultra-wide images, but the DNG's are not the full 40MP images that the sensor captures - they are only 10MP, like the JPG's. So the DNG's don't really help at all with the ultra-wide, which is a great shame.

 

[Droo]

Yeah, I only shoot in RAW, so I only get 23 mm. I would say the P40 Pro is nice for RAW, mediocre for JPG and using computational photography. Dynamic range in RAW is worse for sure, but much better than the JPGs taking with the DNG would make you believe. Especially if you can put the highlights outside the screen center, where they will be attenuated by the vignette and then process in RawTherapee.

 

[2eyesee]

Yeah, I only shoot in RAW, so I only get 23 mm. I would say the P40 Pro is nice for RAW, mediocre for JPG and using computational photography. Dynamic range in RAW is worse for sure, but much better than the JPGs taking with the DNG would make you believe. Especially if you can put the highlights outside the screen center, where they will be attenuated by the vignette and then process in RawTherapee.

What colour profile (.dcp file) do you use in RAW Therapee for processing P40 Pro images? I found one in this post that has been created for the P30 Pro and it gets me part of the way there, but still leaves a lot of vignetting and blacks are crushed.

Do you have anything that I could try? Thanks.

 

[Droo]

Use Adobe DNG Profile Editor to read and save the embedded profile in your DNGs, which will then work correctly in RawTherapee. Or use a color checker to create a custom profile for your camera specifically.

 

[2eyesee]

Use Adobe DNG Profile Editor to read and save the embedded profile in your DNGs, which will then work correctly in RawTherapee. Or use a color checker to create a custom profile for your camera specifically.

Thanks for the tip. I tried it out, but still needed to correct for vignetting - but that's straight forward enough.

The results definitely showed a bit more detail, but that comes at a cost of less dynamic range and more noise. Overall I think I'd just stick with standard photo mode at 23mm - or when the scene permits (not too much movement and reasonable light) the 50MP AI mode, which is amazing.

It's a nuisance needing to slide or pinch to get to 23mm, but the real inconvenience is it switches back to x1 (27mm) whenever you switch to another app and back.

 

[JT26]

Nice post. Completely agree about the AI mode. The two things I wish this camera had were exposure lock in the normal modes not just Pro and also the ability for the camera to save last mode used instead of defaulting back to the normal one.

 

[2eyesee]

After assessing still image quality I've now moved on to video, and was particularly interested in how the ultra-wide compared to the 1x zoom. I'm only really interested in 1080p, as it's not worth me having to manage huge 4K files for my casual smartphone videography needs.

After doing such a terrible job in my stills comparison, I really thought the ultra-wide lens would perform much better in a 1080p video comparison given the low resolution required. Boy was I wrong - it's hideous beyond belief. Check out the 100% crops below - with my RX10 IV thrown in for comparison:


1080p video stills comparison - 100% crops

Given Huawei market the ultra-wide lens as 'cinematic' and the ultra-wide at 1080p is the default video setting, I'm flabbergasted by this result. What on earth are Huawei thinking?

At least the 1x zoom lens is better - not as much detail as my RX10 IV, but stabilisation is in a different league.

I was expecting much more from the ultra-wide though, given the praise I've seen for it on GSM Arena and DXO. For me it's dead-set useless in stills and video.