Z6II & Z7II banding in photonstophotos sensor heat map

[ZapperVT]

The sensor heat map data in photonstophotos.net shows an absence of banding in the black frames in the Z6II. Such banding is pronounced in the Z6.



Source: https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/... Z 6,suffix=14,cameraC=Nikon Z 6II,suffixC=14

Same for Z7 vs Z7II:



This one compares the Z50 to the Z5. Faint banding on the Z5, none that I can see on the Z50.

 

[24Peter]

That's good news!

 

[Ernie Misner]

Very good to see but the sensors are identical aren't they? I wonder what has changed.

 

[ZapperVT]

Very good to see but the sensors are identical aren't they? I wonder what has changed.

Probably something to do with this :

The first fundamental misconception is that PDAF striping and PDAF banding are the same thing. They are not. PDAF striping is caused by reflections from the PDAF pixels that manifest themselves as regular bright stripes spaced at the same distance as the PDAF row spacing. The circumstances that cause those stripes require lens flare, but the stripes don’t appear in all cases where there is such flare. In fact, for most photographers, they’re not a problem at all.

PDAF banding is different. PDAF banding presents as dark stripes in some – but by no means all – scenes with bright elements and deep shadows. Usually, you must push the shadows to see the banding. PDAF banding is the results of Nikon’s (IMHO, misguided) attempt to mitigate PDAF striping. The cure is worse than the disease. Banding happens more often than striping, since the Nikon engineers couldn’t tell precisely where striping would be a problem and decided to err on the side of what they probably thought was caution.

So Nikon might have undone their poorly implemented PDAF striping "fix".

 

[24Peter]

Very good to see but the sensors are identical aren't they? I wonder what has changed.

Probably something to do with this :

The first fundamental misconception is that PDAF striping and PDAF banding are the same thing. They are not. PDAF striping is caused by reflections from the PDAF pixels that manifest themselves as regular bright stripes spaced at the same distance as the PDAF row spacing. The circumstances that cause those stripes require lens flare, but the stripes don’t appear in all cases where there is such flare. In fact, for most photographers, they’re not a problem at all.

PDAF banding is different. PDAF banding presents as dark stripes in some – but by no means all – scenes with bright elements and deep shadows. Usually, you must push the shadows to see the banding. PDAF banding is the results of Nikon’s (IMHO, misguided) attempt to mitigate PDAF striping. The cure is worse than the disease. Banding happens more often than striping, since the Nikon engineers couldn’t tell precisely where striping would be a problem and decided to err on the side of what they probably thought was caution.

So Nikon might have undone their poorly implemented PDAF striping "fix".

Let's thank Jim Kasson (credit) for this! Apparently Nikon listened!

 

[ZapperVT]

Thanks for catching that Peter. I meant to credit Jim after the link.

 

[24Peter]

Thanks for catching that Peter. I meant to credit Jim after the link.

It's good news for all of us. I held off on the Z7 for this exact issue. Now I'm clear to acquire the Z7II

 

[yuriythebest]

Hey guys! I'm thinking of getting either the Z6 or Z6II as my first "proper" camera,

Regarding the banding - is it something I should actually be concerned about, especially if I want to make prints, or is it something that in real life only occurs to night sky/stars photographers and people doing extreme "stress tests". I do want to shoot in low light conditions and am in part considering the Z6/Z6II due to their low light performance, and if I just set the "correct" settings, will I get a nice bright image with no banding or is it safer to go with the Z6II?

 

[1llusive]

Hey guys! I'm thinking of getting either the Z6 or Z6II as my first "proper" camera,

Regarding the banding - is it something I should actually be concerned about, especially if I want to make prints, or is it something that in real life only occurs to night sky/stars photographers and people doing extreme "stress tests". I do want to shoot in low light conditions and am in part considering the Z6/Z6II due to their low light performance, and if I just set the "correct" settings, will I get a nice bright image with no banding or is it safer to go with the Z6II?

I would only worry about it with astrophotography, and I don't mean a 15-second sky shot. I mean stacking lots of frames and stretching the result. Even then I'm not sure I've seen an example of it being a problem. Maybe someone has.

 

[dtc25]

Hey guys! I'm thinking of getting either the Z6 or Z6II as my first "proper" camera,

Regarding the banding - is it something I should actually be concerned about, especially if I want to make prints, or is it something that in real life only occurs to night sky/stars photographers and people doing extreme "stress tests". I do want to shoot in low light conditions and am in part considering the Z6/Z6II due to their low light performance, and if I just set the "correct" settings, will I get a nice bright image with no banding or is it safer to go with the Z6II?

Other people’s experience might differ, but I have a Z6 and I’ve never seen banding.

 

[j_photo]

Regarding the banding - is it something I should actually be concerned about, especially if I want to make prints, or is it something that in real life only occurs to night sky/stars photographers and people doing extreme "stress tests".

It happens only in rare circumstances. I wouldn't let it keep me from getting a Z6 or Z7. I've never seen it in my many thousands of shots. (I just recently upgraded from Z6 to Z6 II)

 

[NikonD800Es]

Hey guys! I'm thinking of getting either the Z6 or Z6II as my first "proper" camera,

Regarding the banding - is it something I should actually be concerned about, especially if I want to make prints, or is it something that in real life only occurs to night sky/stars photographers and people doing extreme "stress tests". I do want to shoot in low light conditions and am in part considering the Z6/Z6II due to their low light performance, and if I just set the "correct" settings, will I get a nice bright image with no banding or is it safer to go with the Z6II?

Other people’s experience might differ, but I have a Z6 and I’ve never seen banding.

Probably because you were/are too busy actually taking pictures, while some others ...

 

[dtc25]

Hey guys! I'm thinking of getting either the Z6 or Z6II as my first "proper" camera,

Regarding the banding - is it something I should actually be concerned about, especially if I want to make prints, or is it something that in real life only occurs to night sky/stars photographers and people doing extreme "stress tests". I do want to shoot in low light conditions and am in part considering the Z6/Z6II due to their low light performance, and if I just set the "correct" settings, will I get a nice bright image with no banding or is it safer to go with the Z6II?

Other people’s experience might differ, but I have a Z6 and I’ve never seen banding.

Probably because you were/are too busy actually taking pictures, while some others ...

You might think that; I couldn't possibly comment . Seriously though, I've done my fair share of pixel peeping, but I've resolved to try to improve my photographic skills rather than fretting about gear. There aren't enough hours in the day to waste them on photographing test charts or trying to find "defects" by shooting with extreme settings and conditions that you would almost never find in real life.

 

[Bernd B]

I´m a disappointed that there is still no real banding filter in Adobe products.

There is the one in raw therapy and one in NIK dfine, but for both I will have to leave my usual and convenient workflow.

I have this kind of banding quite often with my Z7. It depends on your style. Others may have no problems at all. I also have a D850 and there is no banding in side by side comparisons.

The Z7 is a great camera otherwise.

Bernd

 

[hypercore360]

In what way does this show up on or not show up on a Z6/Z6-II actual photograph? Curious to see the effect illustrated in a set of side by side images

Cheers

The sensor heat map data in photonstophotos.net shows an absence of banding in the black frames in the Z6II. Such banding is pronounced in the Z6.



Source: https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/... Z 6,suffix=14,cameraC=Nikon Z 6II,suffixC=14

Same for Z7 vs Z7II:



This one compares the Z50 to the Z5. Faint banding on the Z5, none that I can see on the Z50.

 

[dbateman]

In what way does this show up on or not show up on a Z6/Z6-II actual photograph? Curious to see the effect illustrated in a set of side by side images

Cheers

The sensor heat map data in photonstophotos.net shows an absence of banding in the black frames in the Z6II. Such banding is pronounced in the Z6.



Source: https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/... Z 6,suffix=14,cameraC=Nikon Z 6II,suffixC=14

Same for Z7 vs Z7II:



This one compares the Z50 to the Z5. Faint banding on the Z5, none that I can see on the Z50.

This is a major problem for Ultraviolet photography. But I know that is a rare photographic genre.

Birna found a fix using SilkyPix developer studio. You can see the side by sides here:

Nikon Z6/Z7 as a UV/IR Conversion: the Bad News

www.ultravioletphotography.com

I am interested in one day getting a Z body, just to use focus bracketing with Megadap adapter and my many many self made and manual lenses.

 

[SonyX]

In what way does this show up on or not show up on a Z6/Z6-II actual photograph? Curious to see the effect illustrated in a set of side by side images

Cheers

Lifting the shadows will show it up clearly. But even the first sample from the gallery, without deep shadows, shows some banding.

--
Alex

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[sebulban]

Quite often?
Could you share some examples? I have not seen this on any of my images (+100000). What I have understood is that is relatively easy to see on test shots by under exposing the shot by few stops and raise 5+stops in post. I just never need that kind of editing on my images