Modern radiactive lenses

Radiation has indeed been used as a mutagen to accelerate selection, along with UV and chemical mutagens.

Of course, most of mutations would be non-viable, but occasionally they can produce some desirable properties. These "good" mutations are preserved in selection process.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding
Yes, if it weren't for good mutations and the use of selection to take advantage of them, (not radiation-based though, as far as we know) we'd still have corn on the cob only the size of a person's finger.
 
are some modern lenses radioactive ? Let's say, from 1990 to 2020.

Nikon, Fuji, Canon, Leica, Samyang, 7 Artisans, etc
In most of the world, it's not legal to build lenses using the radioactive dopants anymore. That means yeah, it might be worthwhile checking some Chinese lenses. ;-)
This may possibly have been more to do with the radioactive dust in the lens grinding process than the danger posed by the intact lens in use.

Don’t know, but radioactive lenses in the field have never been banned as far as I know.

Also I have the idea that some lenses are moulded rather than ground. Not sure where that actually came from - but my mind picks up little snippets of information and some of it may be true :)
Most lenses are ground in enclosed environments with water/liquid suspension of the griding and polishing compounds. Exposure to "lens dust" is a thing of the past in modern settings. Lanthanum is becoming more used, especially in higher-end telescopes were that component used in one element on a 2-3 lens element design compliments the ED glass component.
 
Loca wrote

Yea I guess. Not too worried about Japanese brands or Leica tbh. at least in modern times, Nikon did a lot of radioactive Nikkor in the 80s ! and that's late in history
Can you cite a source or sources for this claim?

As a Nikon shooter since the mid 70's this comes as complete news to me.
It would seem Loca is yet another link in the web chain of disinformation. I can find no credible source backing the claim that Nikon manufactured radioactive lenses in the '80's.

Tom, sorry to take this tone but I think this kind of BS needs to be called out. This forum is a great reference source and I don't want to see it diluted with spurious claims that can take on a life of their own.
 
Loca wrote

Yea I guess. Not too worried about Japanese brands or Leica tbh. at least in modern times, Nikon did a lot of radioactive Nikkor in the 80s ! and that's late in history
Can you cite a source or sources for this claim?

As a Nikon shooter since the mid 70's this comes as complete news to me.
It would seem Loca is yet another link in the web chain of disinformation. I can find no credible source backing the claim that Nikon manufactured radioactive lenses in the '80's.

Tom, sorry to take this tone but I think this kind of BS needs to be called out. This forum is a great reference source and I don't want to see it diluted with spurious claims that can take on a life of their own.
ED glass was well-established by then, as was fluorite, if needed. No need for thoriated glass.
 
I know this thread is old but thought this fits here. I just learnt about radioactive lenses and found this thread when searing for more info.

I also found this list of known radioactive lenses. The page is in Swedish (use google translate) but the list of lenses shouldn't cause bigger language problems. The bolded lines doesn't mean that lens is especially radioactive. It just means they have measured the radioactivity themselves. Cyberphoto is large camera shop, on- and offline.

https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/radioaktiva-objektiv

It's mentioned at the end of the page that some brands also used thorium in the viewfinder glass, which they think can be a real health hazard since it's so close to the eye. They mention Pentax 6x7 and Pentacon Six.

They also offer to test your lenses for you - free of charge! They don't even require you pay the return shipping. I have a feeling this offer isn't international though! ;-)

Nothing to do with radioactivity, but you may want to look at their museum while you're there. Quite a collection.
https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/kameramuseum
 
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I know this thread is old but thought this fits here. I just learnt about radioactive lenses and found this thread when searing for more info.

I also found this list of known radioactive lenses. The page is in Swedish (use google translate) but the list of lenses shouldn't cause bigger language problems. The bolded lines doesn't mean that lens is especially radioactive. It just means they have measured the radioactivity themselves. Cyberphoto is large camera shop, on- and offline.

https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/radioaktiva-objektiv

It's mentioned at the end of the page that some brands also used thorium in the viewfinder glass, which they think can be a real health hazard since it's so close to the eye. They mention Pentax 6x7 and Pentacon Six.

They also offer to test your lenses for you - free of charge! They don't even require you pay the return shipping. I have a feeling this offer isn't international though! ;-)

Nothing to do with radioactivity, but you may want to look at their museum while you're there. Quite a collection.
https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/kameramuseum
At the time, I bought a Geiger counter to measure radiation from a variety of lenses. I had too many from too many periods, so it was interesting to be able to test them all. I only had to get rid of the Takumars, the few others like the Killar or one Meyer are just mild and likely to be early lanthanum formulas - just don't put them under the pillow.

To me it's just amazing how some old rock can give high energy particles non stop for hundreds of years or more.
 
I know this thread is old but thought this fits here. I just learnt about radioactive lenses and found this thread when searing for more info.

I also found this list of known radioactive lenses. The page is in Swedish (use google translate) but the list of lenses shouldn't cause bigger language problems. The bolded lines doesn't mean that lens is especially radioactive. It just means they have measured the radioactivity themselves. Cyberphoto is large camera shop, on- and offline.

https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/radioaktiva-objektiv

It's mentioned at the end of the page that some brands also used thorium in the viewfinder glass, which they think can be a real health hazard since it's so close to the eye. They mention Pentax 6x7 and Pentacon Six.

They also offer to test your lenses for you - free of charge! They don't even require you pay the return shipping. I have a feeling this offer isn't international though! ;-)

Nothing to do with radioactivity, but you may want to look at their museum while you're there. Quite a collection.
https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/kameramuseum
At the time, I bought a Geiger counter to measure radiation from a variety of lenses. I had too many from too many periods, so it was interesting to be able to test them all. I only had to get rid of the Takumars, the few others like the Killar or one Meyer are just mild and likely to be early lanthanum formulas - just don't put them under the pillow.

To me it's just amazing how some old rock can give high energy particles non stop for hundreds of years or more.
Can you buy a Geiger counter? Well, of course I understand that you can, but i thought they were very expensive.

I'm not concerned about my lenses, but I pick a lot of mushrooms and stuff from Chernobyl fell down on areas close to where I live. It blew in our direction and it rained the days after. It would be great to be able to test mushrooms and berries from different areas.
 
Can you buy a Geiger counter? Well, of course I understand that you can, but i thought they were very expensive.
The real question is which particles does it measure?

The materials most used in lenses are primarily alpha and beta, not gamma, emitters... although there are nastier things in their decay chains. The danger associated with alphas is negligible (if not ingested), betas are surface exposure only, and gammas are the scary ones. However, all can be detected by Geiger counters. The real dosage depends on energy, not just detection count, so it's actually hard to get an accurate measurement of dosage, which is what sieverts are supposed to be measuring...

In any case, a little distance quickly brings most radioactive lenses to background levels... which is why radioactive eyepieces are a lot scarier than lenses.
 
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Can you buy a Geiger counter? Well, of course I understand that you can, but i thought they were very expensive.
The real question is which particles does it measure?

The materials most used in lenses are primarily alpha and beta, not gamma, emitters... although there are nastier things in their decay chains. The danger associated with alphas is negligible (if not ingested), betas are surface exposure only, and gammas are the scary ones. However, all can be detected by Geiger counters. The real dosage depends on energy, not just detection count, so it's actually hard to get an accurate measurement of dosage, which is what sieverts are supposed to be measuring...

In any case, a little distance quickly brings most radioactive lenses to background levels... which is why radioactive eyepieces are a lot scarier than lenses.
Though I remember the practice, decades ago, of using a camera lens as a magnifier to inspect a slide or strip of negatives. That put a camera lens much closer to the eye than usual. In retrospect, given radioactivity, a bad practice.
 
I know this thread is old but thought this fits here. I just learnt about radioactive lenses and found this thread when searing for more info.

I also found this list of known radioactive lenses. The page is in Swedish (use google translate) but the list of lenses shouldn't cause bigger language problems. The bolded lines doesn't mean that lens is especially radioactive. It just means they have measured the radioactivity themselves. Cyberphoto is large camera shop, on- and offline.

https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/radioaktiva-objektiv

It's mentioned at the end of the page that some brands also used thorium in the viewfinder glass, which they think can be a real health hazard since it's so close to the eye. They mention Pentax 6x7 and Pentacon Six.

They also offer to test your lenses for you - free of charge! They don't even require you pay the return shipping. I have a feeling this offer isn't international though! ;-)

Nothing to do with radioactivity, but you may want to look at their museum while you're there. Quite a collection.
https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/kameramuseum
At the time, I bought a Geiger counter to measure radiation from a variety of lenses. I had too many from too many periods, so it was interesting to be able to test them all. I only had to get rid of the Takumars, the few others like the Killar or one Meyer are just mild and likely to be early lanthanum formulas - just don't put them under the pillow.

To me it's just amazing how some old rock can give high energy particles non stop for hundreds of years or more.
Can you buy a Geiger counter? Well, of course I understand that you can, but i thought they were very expensive.
There are all kinds of prices, from $50 to $3500, so they don't need to be expensive. The core of these things, simply put, are different sensors, much like a computer, the raw ability is mostly determined by the sensor type. One for alpha + beta + gamma may be around $150 (the tube / sensor, in the analogy).

I bought one that measures A+B+G and realize it was a bit overkill, way more precision that I need. But I also have some findings. Alpha is supposed to be blocked by air itself, it just bumps into it and releases the energy, just a few cms away it may be hard to detect. Beta is longer reaching, but is attenuated by clothing and will be blocked by thin aluminum. Gamma goes through everything, you'd need deep concrete or thick lead to block it.

The other aspect is is that radiation is a form of light. The further away you are, the dimmer, since the ways cover a full sphere. I may have this wrong, but assume it's inversely proportional to the surface of a sphere, which a quick google tells me it's 4 * PI * r^2. So if at 1cm the counter counts some radiation, at double the distance or 2 cm it's 1/4, at 3cm it's 1/9, at 4cm 1/12, at 8cm it's 1/64. So when you measure something, it may seem high, but be almost like background at a very small distance away from it.
I'm not concerned about my lenses, but I pick a lot of mushrooms and stuff from Chernobyl fell down on areas close to where I live.
I know nearly enough for me to have a good self-informed view of all the aspects. I think there all kinds of situations that may make something not very healthy seem innocuous, or something innocuous seem ominous. For example, one may try to live all healthy and not know some old plate set may be highly radioactive, or have tiles that are relatively active, which since they may cover a big surface, is enclosed may lead to radon being present.
It blew in our direction and it rained the days after. It would be great to be able to test mushrooms and berries from different areas.
This is the kind of thing I have no clue about, because you are eating this, and I am not sure but it will be within your system, something way different than say, a lens with some crystal with minor lanthanum.

I actually bought the A+B+G counter because I wanted to like the Takumars. The problem was it the count went to 50,000 CPM (and equally high m/Sv), then I put paper (which should block alpha) and it was the same reading, then I put 1 layer of alu sheet and it read the same. Then I put 16 layers of alu, and it read the same thing. It was all gamma rays.

It's likely bananas may be more dangerous, but I didn't want a gamma lighthouse when I had so many other and good 50mm lenses.
 
Can you buy a Geiger counter? Well, of course I understand that you can, but i thought they were very expensive.
The real question is which particles does it measure?

The materials most used in lenses are primarily alpha and beta, not gamma, emitters... although there are nastier things in their decay chains. The danger associated with alphas is negligible (if not ingested), betas are surface exposure only, and gammas are the scary ones. However, all can be detected by Geiger counters. The real dosage depends on energy, not just detection count, so it's actually hard to get an accurate measurement of dosage, which is what sieverts are supposed to be measuring...

In any case, a little distance quickly brings most radioactive lenses to background levels... which is why radioactive eyepieces are a lot scarier than lenses.
Though I remember the practice, decades ago, of using a camera lens as a magnifier to inspect a slide or strip of negatives. That put a camera lens much closer to the eye than usual. In retrospect, given radioactivity, a bad practice.
How much time does one spend with a lens? My issue with having them is the camera may be hanging on me for many others at a time, and at that moment, the lens is almost touching the skin. And when using the EVF, if it's gamma, they aren't stopped by any of the camera parts. One's eye is like 6-8cm from the rear of the lens....which in some of these lenses there's a big rear element that is the most active of all. Most people are unconcerned, and they probably know better.
 
I actually bought the A+B+G counter because I wanted to like the Takumars. The problem was it the count went to 50,000 CPM (and equally high m/Sv), then I put paper (which should block alpha) and it was the same reading, then I put 1 layer of alu sheet and it read the same. Then I put 16 layers of alu, and it read the same thing. It was all gamma rays.
That sounds really high, but there isn't a simple conversion formula for CPM to sieverts dose rate.

Taks have had decades to decay, so it is possible that daughters of the original dopant are causing the problem, or it could be radioactivity induced in other lens components. Lots 'o gammas isn't just Thorium...
 
I know this thread is old but thought this fits here. I just learnt about radioactive lenses and found this thread when searing for more info.

I also found this list of known radioactive lenses. The page is in Swedish (use google translate) but the list of lenses shouldn't cause bigger language problems. The bolded lines doesn't mean that lens is especially radioactive. It just means they have measured the radioactivity themselves. Cyberphoto is large camera shop, on- and offline.

https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/radioaktiva-objektiv

It's mentioned at the end of the page that some brands also used thorium in the viewfinder glass, which they think can be a real health hazard since it's so close to the eye. They mention Pentax 6x7 and Pentacon Six.

They also offer to test your lenses for you - free of charge! They don't even require you pay the return shipping. I have a feeling this offer isn't international though! ;-)

Nothing to do with radioactivity, but you may want to look at their museum while you're there. Quite a collection.
https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/kameramuseum
At the time, I bought a Geiger counter to measure radiation from a variety of lenses. I had too many from too many periods, so it was interesting to be able to test them all. I only had to get rid of the Takumars, the few others like the Killar or one Meyer are just mild and likely to be early lanthanum formulas - just don't put them under the pillow.

To me it's just amazing how some old rock can give high energy particles non stop for hundreds of years or more.
Can you buy a Geiger counter? Well, of course I understand that you can, but i thought they were very expensive.
There are all kinds of prices, from $50 to $3500, so they don't need to be expensive. The core of these things, simply put, are different sensors, much like a computer, the raw ability is mostly determined by the sensor type. One for alpha + beta + gamma may be around $150 (the tube / sensor, in the analogy).

I bought one that measures A+B+G and realize it was a bit overkill, way more precision that I need. But I also have some findings. Alpha is supposed to be blocked by air itself, it just bumps into it and releases the energy, just a few cms away it may be hard to detect. Beta is longer reaching, but is attenuated by clothing and will be blocked by thin aluminum. Gamma goes through everything, you'd need deep concrete or thick lead to block it.

The other aspect is is that radiation is a form of light. The further away you are, the dimmer, since the ways cover a full sphere. I may have this wrong, but assume it's inversely proportional to the surface of a sphere, which a quick google tells me it's 4 * PI * r^2. So if at 1cm the counter counts some radiation, at double the distance or 2 cm it's 1/4, at 3cm it's 1/9, at 4cm 1/12, at 8cm it's 1/64. So when you measure something, it may seem high, but be almost like background at a very small distance away from it.
I'm not concerned about my lenses, but I pick a lot of mushrooms and stuff from Chernobyl fell down on areas close to where I live.
I know nearly enough for me to have a good self-informed view of all the aspects. I think there all kinds of situations that may make something not very healthy seem innocuous, or something innocuous seem ominous. For example, one may try to live all healthy and not know some old plate set may be highly radioactive, or have tiles that are relatively active, which since they may cover a big surface, is enclosed may lead to radon being present.
It blew in our direction and it rained the days after. It would be great to be able to test mushrooms and berries from different areas.
This is the kind of thing I have no clue about, because you are eating this, and I am not sure but it will be within your system, something way different than say, a lens with some crystal with minor lanthanum.

I actually bought the A+B+G counter because I wanted to like the Takumars. The problem was it the count went to 50,000 CPM (and equally high m/Sv), then I put paper (which should block alpha) and it was the same reading, then I put 1 layer of alu sheet and it read the same. Then I put 16 layers of alu, and it read the same thing. It was all gamma rays.

It's likely bananas may be more dangerous, but I didn't want a gamma lighthouse when I had so many other and good 50mm lenses.
No, I rather eat bananas. it's cesium-137. There are maps showing the level of radiation. But they aren't kept updated and authorities have put the lid on. When it happened it was said stuff from the worst areas around here wouldn't be edible in our lifetime and AFAIK no tests are done on produce from these areas now, not even commercially grown produce. Same goes for meat.

In my case it rained north of town. So a rule of thumb is pick things only south of town. But I can't know if the potatoes I eat and the milk I drink come from these areas.

If you are interested here's a map of ground radiation. I think it is from shortly after it happened. I live in Uppsala (a bit north of Stockholm). So it was between 10 and 60kBz/m2. A town about 100 km to the north from here has areas with more than 120 kBz, so I guess we we were lucky. The half-time of cesium-137 is 30 years, so about half of these values now (if they are from when it happened...). Add to that that mushrooms, especially some species, suck up cesium to a much, much larger extent than for example berries, so they can contain really high amounts. And eating the #%& is of course worse than just holding it, as with lenses. Mushrooms foraging has been a life long interest so it's hard resist the urge...

https://ssm-kartor.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=b0b123c9e99549f58d5d23a2436016ba

I pick south of town. A few years ago I had the opportunity to get dehydrated yellowfoots tested (in Holland!). No more than background radiation. Phew.
 
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This app is said to work. It uses the camera's sensor.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rdklein.radioactivity


There's also a light version that only shows counts.

I'm on the fence.
I'm sure it detects something, but it certainly isn't calibrated and sounds very dependent on funky things not happening to the images in terms of processing of raws... which seems a very bad bet with current cell phones.

I finally decided to buy one of the real units -- GQ 320+V5 Data Logger Dosimeter Radiation Detector for $108. I especially like that this model claims to have wifi support, because I've never really done profiling of my basement for Radon.
 
This app is said to work. It uses the camera's sensor.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rdklein.radioactivity


There's also a light version that only shows counts.

I'm on the fence.
I'm sure it detects something, but it certainly isn't calibrated and sounds very dependent on funky things not happening to the images in terms of processing of raws... which seems a very bad bet with current cell phones.

I finally decided to buy one of the real units -- GQ 320+V5 Data Logger Dosimeter Radiation Detector for $108. I especially like that this model claims to have wifi support, because I've never really done profiling of my basement for Radon.
Maybe it doesn't matter as long as results are consistent. In my case, if I can see much more activity from the mushrooms I picked than from my apartment I can deduct I shouldn't eat them. It isn't overly important with exact values.

BTW you are supposed to calibrate the full version somehow, not against cesium though, I hope. :-D

Maybe I'll try it. I'll see. It's so little money, so I can take it if it's crap.
 
I know this thread is old but thought this fits here. I just learnt about radioactive lenses and found this thread when searing for more info.

I also found this list of known radioactive lenses. The page is in Swedish (use google translate) but the list of lenses shouldn't cause bigger language problems. The bolded lines doesn't mean that lens is especially radioactive. It just means they have measured the radioactivity themselves. Cyberphoto is large camera shop, on- and offline.

https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/radioaktiva-objektiv

It's mentioned at the end of the page that some brands also used thorium in the viewfinder glass, which they think can be a real health hazard since it's so close to the eye. They mention Pentax 6x7 and Pentacon Six.

They also offer to test your lenses for you - free of charge! They don't even require you pay the return shipping. I have a feeling this offer isn't international though! ;-)

Nothing to do with radioactivity, but you may want to look at their museum while you're there. Quite a collection.
https://www.cyberphoto.se/captains-log/kameramuseum
Nice to see a more extended list with also more fixed compact camera lenses + MF folders measured. My Mamiya Sekor SX 55mm 1.8 s.n. 107646 is most likely also radioactive given the higher s.n. numbers quoted in the list. The Olympus OM 50mm 1.4 silvernose too. Very good lenses anyway. The Wray C.R.T. 2" 1.0 will be the hottest one if the original yellowing was an indication, cleared it fast with a UV bug lamp. Not a lens for any practical purpose though.

It would not surprise me if a third of my collection is RA given the period they were made in. I have right now an FE mount converted Yashinon 45mm 2.8 (Tessar Type) of a Yashica 35 YK on the UV light source sitting, standard treatment here. Should buy one of these Chinese Geigertellers, might need it for other purposes too here in Europe.

Little is mentioned about fogging of film by the RA lens elements. For example the hot Tessars of the Zeiss Super Ikontas come in close contact with the film when the camera is folded.

Should I raise the question whether any harm to sensor and/or electronics could happen with a vintage RA lens on a mirrorless digital camera?

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
No photographer's gear list is complete without the printer mentioned !
 

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